Bernie's platform is DOA. The culprit? Simple math.

[kstewart33]

It takes 60 votes to move a bill to a final vote in the Senate. The Democrats have 44 seats; the Republicans have 54 and there are 2 independents.

Bernie will have to pick up 16 votes to move any bill to a final vote. That means that he will have to convince 16 Republicans/ independents to move the bill forward for a final floor vote.

Given the deeply liberal nature of his platform, where will the votes come from? What Republican in their right mind will vote for any of it? Look at how they've stonewalled Obama during the last 8 years. Think for a moment that Obamacare barely passed when we controlled BOTH houses of Congress.

And what Democrat from a purple district will vote for a bill when it requires raising taxes on the middle class? And please, don't insist that it will all be paid with taxes on corporations and the rich. Because who controls the Republicans? They do! And it takes 60 votes to get a final vote on the tax bills.

Chris Matthews pushed Bernie on the Senate numbers last night. Bernie's answer: "Chris, you think inside the box. We're thinking outside the box." And Chris' reply: "Bernie, the votes are inside the box."

Now, we could regain the Senate. Yes, and we could also plow snow in the Caribbean. No one predicts that the Dems will retake the Senate in 2016. Look at our present turnout. Do you think we're going to pick up seats with this turnout?

It's not ideology, it's not politics, it's simple and irrefutable math that blocks Bernie's platform. Hillary supporters know this. No amount of Bernie love will change that. That's one key reason why Hillary is picking up supporters and the numbers are turning in her favor. People are coming to realize that Bernie's presidency will be four years of getting nothing done.

[Billsmile]

1. We're Screwed So Fall In Line

Be practical folks.

[lunamagica]

2. It is called Berniemath

[jfern]

3. So how's Hillary going to get her agenda through?

Or is it just the same as the Republican agenda, and she'll be a de facto Republican President? Oops, don't want to let that cat out of that bag.

[Warren Stupidity]

14. She only needs 60 votes. NT.

[libtodeath]

59. Plus 31 repuke governors to do her bidding.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

24. ishe will be exactly like her background

she will turn red when dealing with congress and will turn green when she stands next to a tree.

[Enrique]

47. exactly

trying to run as a liberal and at the same time saying liberal policies have no hope

[kstewart33]

48. That's a really good question.

I'll post an answer in a new thread later today.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

4. EEK! Bernie's TOO LIBERAL!! Vote for the lesser evil!!

[dchill]

29. The lesser Democratic. The lesser honest.

The lesser electable.
The lesser likeable.
The lesser forthcoming.
The lesser forgivable.

Vote Hillary > Over there to the right.

[Kittycat]

40. +1000

Not to mention she will play the gender card every opportunity that arises, most often when it doesn't pertain and isn't appropriate to do so. Which will only create tensions and impact women's issues further.

[Segami]

69. +1001

"over there to the right".............

[jeff47]

5. And Clinton will get 60 votes to pass her platform by............?

Both platforms are just as DOA. The Republicans who voted to kill the ACA more than 60 times will not vote to expand it when Clinton tells them to.

The difference is the platform that is actually aspirational has a chance to change the current situation.

[TDale313]

6. We get the math. This is not about these things getting passed immediately.

We know it'll be a long slog. But I'd much, much rather have a candidate and president who will get the conversation heading in the right way and who will fight for these issues. It may take a long time to get us where we need to get to, and there will be loses along the way. But I am convinced Hillary won't even try.

[TCJ70]

7. You know what the main difference between Hillary and Bernie is?

Bernie acknowledges this difficulties and tells people what they need to do to enact real change (AKA...the revolution). He's done it in every appearance and speech he's ever given during this campaign. Hillary and her supporters make no effort to deal with the reality that she, too, will face these same difficulties and her incremental approach will get us absolutely nowhere.

[GoneFishin]

35. And he doesn't pander. What you see is what you get.

[PoliticAverse]

8. "It takes 60 votes to move a bill to a final vote in the Senate" - Anytime the majority party wants

to end the 60 vote requirement it can.

[kstewart33]

49. And the majority party is the Republicans. Even the Dems wouldn't do that.

It would be a declaration of war against each other. The House would do it; the Senate never will.

[RobertEarl]

9. But of course!!

We give up. We'll never get anything so why try. Just vote for the same and act happy.
_______________________

The reality is that we must keep trying to make progress. Lead, follow, or get out of the way, ........ comes to mind.

[zappaman]

10. You are completely wrong...it adds up perfectly if you use the right math.

#berniemath

[Human101948]

11. Exactly why is this called Democratic Underground?

When so many of the people posting here are indistinguishable from Republicans?

[Armstead]

12. That is total dead end thinking...The self fulfilling prophecy that has neutered the Democrats

[kstewart33]

16. Why am I wrong?

Don't dismiss it. Suspend your emotions and look at my thinking logically.

Tell me how Bernie is going to convince 16 Republican/independent senators to support his platform.

What logically am I missing?

[JonLeibowitz]

20. The part where we the people vote and un-elect them. n/t

[kstewart33]

50. We'll know on Wednesday whether the Revolution is coming.

JL, you may be right. However, the signs aren't looking good.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

57. We will? What happens on Wednesday?

Do you mean after Hillary gets her run of the best state's shes got in the whole contest?

Yes, Hillary will do extremely well in the red states. But no, that doesn't mean the election is over.

[kstewart33]

60. It's more than the red states.

It's about momentum. If Bernie can win big in the states he's focusing on, the media will play up Bernie's success primarily because they want a real horse race. It's not over for Bernie. He can get some real momentum from Super Tuesday.

However if not, Hillary's momentum will likely carry her through the other primaries in March, and her lead will be considerable.

At that point, the media will be Bernie's primary opponent, not so much Hillary.

[Armstead]

42. Politics is also about framing things -- and reframiing them

It's not only about whether this bill can get passed at this time. It's about changing the political frame and the overall "zeritgeist," and consequently creating more favorable conditions down the line.

I wish more Democrats would look at Ronald Reagan and what he and the GOP accomplished.
I realize that Reagan-ism is repugnant, but they accomplished what he set out to do, which was a reverse version of wjhat Sanders is aiming for.

Reagan was also cionsidered "too radical" by many in hgis party, and many in the country. And he faced a Congress that was not on his side at the beginning.

Over time the Reagan Revolution changed the direction of everything, and pushd the country on a steady rightward course that continues to this day.

[Shandris]

13. "Clearly as the math is not with him immediately, it never will be. No President has ever had to...

...lose or gain a seat in either branch of Congress in the History of the United States of America."

PLEASE hire some people for messaging. I almost feel bad with how cringeworthy these attempts are.

[kstewart33]

19. Where am I wrong?

We're not talking about 1 seat. It's 16 seats.

How is Bernie going to convince 16 Republican/independent senators to vote for his platform?

Where's the logic in that?

[Lil Missy]

15. I saw that exchange - it was very revealing. He couldn't come up with a single one.

[Avalux]

17. Is that you, Chris Matthews's wife? Just wondering..... n/t

[wildeyed]

18. Anyone who says

"thinking outside the box" is not capable of thinking outside the box. Sorry, pet peeve, I hate that kind of buzzword corporate speak.....

He doesn't have the votes and he doesn't have the political skill to ram any of it through, IMO. Sanders skill is as an outsider/activist forcing regular politicians to the left. Far different skill set to be President.

[ymetca]

23. Are you a Republican or just a Hillary paid staffer

What Bernie is talking about is exactly what we need. We should of never let Hospitals or health insurance be for profit. If anyone remembers they use to be non-profit. There are somethings that should be run by the government. Health care, prisons and schools just to name a few. I was furious to find out one of Hillary staffers is from a for profit prison. For profit prisons is one of the reasons we have so many people in jail and of course the ridiculous "war on drugs".

[wildeyed]

25. Welcome to DU!

[PatrickforO]

28. Gosh, that's what they said about Obama. He's nothing but a community

organizer. He doesn't have the skills to be president! Fast forward seven years and we see by Obama's record that these detractors were wrong. I'm thinking you are wrong, as well.

[wildeyed]

34. I supported Obama from very early on.

So I wasn't wrong then either. It was pretty clear to anyone who knew jack about numbers and demographics that he was VERY strong at building coalitions, something Sanders fails at. And Obama did struggle with inexperience at during his first term, something Clinton supporters warned about. They were not completely wrong either. He sorted it out, but the GOP worked him pretty hard those first few years.

You should go page waaaay back in my Journal. There is a post specifically about the community organizer aspect of that campaign

[Armstead]

43. Look at what Sanders accomplished as Mayor and how

He had the same knock when he first ran. Buit he showed just the opposite, that he was excellent at building coalitions and working with people from all perspectives.And being named one of Americas Best Mayors by US News, a fairly conservative publication.

Different scale but the same skill set required.

[wildeyed]

58. Building coalitions in a small,

relative homogeneous city, perhaps. But he is not succeeding outside his region. The south IS hard. It take a bit to get the hang of politics here. At least it did for me. You gotta just show up and act right for a period of time to be taken seriously. People like to go slow. They want to get to know you a bit. Bottom line, Sanders needed to be doing that for a while before he declared. It is too much to establish that relationship in a few short months.

I was absolutely open to supporting his campaign early on. But the vibe, out of the box, was one of "my way or the highway". I have some fundamental disagreements with Sander's philosophy and his take on liberalism. I do not want the second coming of FDR. FDR is dead. We live in a different time, where blacks and women have far more rights and must be considered. The issues we face are different, particularly technology and globalization. I am not nostalgic for the 1940's and 50's. At all. If Sanders seemed open so some sort of compromise on that, maybe I would be more interested. But he has made it very clear that he will not change his priorities, ever. So if you like his priorities, great! Stick with him. But if you don't, tough shit. I do appreciate that he was honest about that, BTW.

And there was and is so much negativity toward Clinton (and also Obama). When I picked Obama, I ALSO liked Clinton. I never didn't like Clinton except right at the end of the primary. If Obama or his supporters had been going at her hard, I would have stuck with her that time too. Sanders has gone hard against BOTH those politicians. That is off putting for those who like them. And I LOATHE the progressive litmus tests that seem to be the rage among his supporters right now. But the only actual criteria seems to be whether you support their candidate. I was JUST accused of being a Republican or some kind of paid troll by a low post newbie But that kind of thing happens all the time... And I loathe the way I see minorities being questioned who do not support his candidacy. That last thing is why I started posting here again after basically lurking for several years. And it is NOT just his supporters. I read his Twitter and press releases too. Some of that vibe comes directly from the campaign.

So I stick by my assertion that Sanders does not have the coalition building skills needed to be President and also does not care to have them because they are anathema to his political philosophy. He never changes, remember? But that trait, while being very appealing to some, will not endear him to those who don't fully agree with his views.

[Armstead]

64. Not surprisingly, I disagree. I don't think basic human and social values change

First, I would not dismiss his ability to work with people who do not agree with his ideology. He pulled off something very impressive in Burlington. He could have been an ineffective and isolated ideologue -- instead, he pulled people together and got things done. Those character traits and skillset can be applied nationally.

As to the larger implications of this election....

You are correct about globalization and technology changing things. Also about the importance of inclusiveness and diversity.

However, IMO it goes much deeper than that. I think basic human values (better and worse) don't change.

Since the 70's we have gone through a political and social shift that has emphasized the worst aspects of greed, selfishness, the mindless accumulation of wealth and power for its own sake at the expense of others social interests....Big institutions and their henchmen (and women) in the political process have imposed that through Orwellian propaganda, divisiveness and using their existing wealth and power to feed upon itself.

Therefore, in order to restore some balance, and return us to a more humane (and sustainable) nation, we have to 1)Admit that fact and 2)Adamantly combat it. That, IMO, is what Liberalism (Progressivism) is about. And we have to appeal to a combination of self interest, common sense and altruism (we all do better when we ALL do better).

That, to me is what this election is about. The fatal flaws in the Corporate CONservative, bottom line approach has become obviious to many people, and politics has to rep[resent that. It HAS NOT from EITHER party, The Democrtats have been silent or complicit for several decades. Clinton represents that longstanding refusal to admit and correct it.

Sanders has brought these issues into the presidential arena for the first time. He is acknowledging that unspoken core problem, and channel the desire to tip the balance in the opposite direction.

We can continue to enable the status quo, and the New Gilded Age Oligarchy that represents, or we can imnitiate change. Compromise is one thing -- it's fine. But we have to stop surrendering and collaborating. That's why Sanders has resonated with millions of people.

[wildeyed]

65. I get what you are saying about basic human values.

And I agree that we are waaaaay out of balance right now. But that has more to do with the conservatism of the electorate and basic traits in the American character that people from solid blue parts of the country often miss.

And I also think you are not accounting for some basic laws of politics and democracy. Sanders is an activist, not really a politician. Activists are easy to love. They call out injustice and point toward our better natures. But they don't have to get elected or get the legislation passed. They can afford to be unpopular and stick to their guns. Politicians cannot, past a certain point. They either compromise or they lose. Sanders has played in a small enough pond, up to now, to not need to do much compromising. But now he is in the ocean.

If Sanders does win, I guarantee he will break your heart. Real politicians always break your heart at some point. I try hard to not even like them. I look at them like an investment. How much do I need to put into this and what do I get back? Politicians who lose or who can't play the game well enough to get stuff passed are a bad investment.

[ymetca]

21. You do not have a clue

Chris Matthews just looked like a bully. When Chris said it will be too hard I wish Bernie would of said "Would you of told Martin Luther King it will be too hard, so don't even bother trying". I also believe all these post are paid campaign staffers trying to convince democrats to vote for Hillary or not even vote because he has already lost. Do not listen to them!!!! It will be hard to pass what Bernie wants, but do we want a bought off president who does not even want to try. We should never elect a president who states nothing that helps the middle class or poor can be done because it is too hard. Her tag line should be "No we Can't".

Every poll shows Bernie wining by a lot on a head to head race with Donald. If Hillary is our candidate we will just hand it to Donald Trump. There have been several Republicans who stated they would vote for Bernie. You will not find any who will vote for Hillary. Republicans will come out in droves to vote against Hillary and we will lose if she is our candidate!!!!!

Do not be fools and listen to all these blogs for Hillary. Once again I guarantee most of them are paid staffers.

[NurseJackie]

44. You "guarantee" it? Well, then... I guess it's settled. :-P

You will not find any who will vote for Hillary.

Ahem.

[rbrnmw]

61. LMAO

[The Redheaded Guy]

22. You have it completely backwards.

Clinton's nomination is already DOA from the beginning.

Sanders has an excellent shot of winning the Presidency. All polls has confirmed it.

[rbrnmw]

62. OK

[panader0]

67. "Cackle, cackle"

[rbrnmw]

68. ick

[PatrickforO]

26. Sorry but I don't buy that. Bernie has us. If we exert massive social pressure,

Congress will cave. They are all about getting reelected. The fear of not getting reelected is so thick you can cut it with a knife. The reason they vote with the oligarchs, the so-called 'big donors' is that they aren't getting enough pressure from us. If we can show through our sheer numbers that they WILL lose the next election if they don't vote our way, then they will vote our way.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

27. VETO VETO VETO

Hillary will not stand against the stupid.

Sanders Will!!!

[SHRED]

30. "No we can't" is not a winning strategy OBTW

[bunnies]

31. But suddenly Republicans will pass EVERYTHING that Hillary Clinton suggests...

Hell. They'll oppose her DESPITE that fact that plans benefits them. The delusion... It burns.

[DefenseLawyer]

32. But when we die, on our deathbed, we will receive total consciousness.

So we've got that going for us, which is nice, I think.

[bkkyosemite]

33. The meme just keeps memeing....

[stevenleser]

36. The truth does that. It's resistant to going away. nt

[brooklynite]

37. I'm going to challenge your assumption about retaking the Senate...

We need net 5 seats. We have two easy wins (WI and IL), two seats where we're currently ahead (OH and NH), and two States where a song Presidential candidate should bring in a pickup (FL and PA).

[snowy owl]

38. what people forget is Bernie's coattails

The picture is bigger than what you paint. Springs become streams and streams become rivers. Nothing exists in isolation. Bernie's expectation and those of us who support him know that the change has to be bigger than just the man. We need coattails and liberals to replace conservatives in Congress. You have to see the bigger picture. If you cannot see that, we are doomed and he is doomed. But I see it. I certainly don't remember FDR but I know my history and people can make change if they are inspired to do it and if they are needy enough to do it. That's what Bernie is hoping for. Check out Reich - Bernie is change and its not little change but big change. All-encompassing change. If you don't believe that it's possible, then it isn't. What more can I say.

[Live and Learn]

39. Are you claiming Hillary can get the votes? Exactly how will she do that?

She can't go to the people like Bernie would since she laughed that off.

Propose Republican policies? Quite possible but thankfully, she will still have a hard time getting them through.

They will probably support her hawkish agenda though. Oh goody.

[Karma13612]

46. We must remember there is ALWAYS money for war. eom

[TheFarseer]

41. So

You'd rather be successful at passing a job killing trade agreement, and keeping a corrupt campaign finance system than to make college more affordable and healthcare more available? Even if you think Bernie's proposals are impossible, getting some of what we want in a compromise seems perfectly within reach. But if we don't try we get nothing.

[Logical]

45. Oh FFS, in other words "please let hillary win the nomination" nt

[cantbeserious]

51. Predictably Spreading Establishment FUD - Meme Number 147

eom

[fredamae]

52. Hahahahaha

If we were at all Smart-We would Understand Reality and Then take a Long Hard look at "The Math" that got Us in this mess to begin with, decades ago

[Kip Humphrey]

53. Bernie is the only progressive in this race who has a plan to get things done. Hillary doesn't.

WIN! Bernie WIN!

[SidDithers]

54. The lack of endorsements also shows that Bernie doesn't have many friends in the Senate...nt

Sid

[Broward]

55. This is so shortsighted. You have to start somewhere.

At the very least we have to stop the bleeding. Stake out positions on the left and over time aim to pull things in that direction. It worked for the Repubs on many issues over the past 50 years. Conversely, if we keep backing Third Wayers the Party will keep chasing the Repubs ever rightward.

[INdemo]

56. If Bernie Sanders is nominated he will bring with him congressional seats

and probably retake the Senate. With Hillary not so because progressives will stay home and not vote.
Its a shame but when voters dont care they dont vote..We lost in 2010,2012 (Congressional vote) and the Blow out (2014)
becasue of low turn out

Yes Bernie Sanders will bring out those that would normally not vote.

[krawhitham]

63. The revolution is about the down ticket, 24 Republican senators up for re-election in 2016

Without a revolution Hillary can not get anything past the 60 senator wall either

[Gothmog]

66. Imagine Bernie Sanders wins the White House. Then what?

Sanders' plans for adopting his proposals depend on these new voters. Here is how Sanders thinks that he will be able to force the GOP to be reasonable http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/21/1483791/-Imagine-Bernie-Sanders-wins-the-White-House-Then-what

Bernie Sanders has made some very big promises when it comes to his legislative priorities: He says he’ll make college free, pass a constitutional amendment to overturn Citizens United, and institute a generous single-payer national health insurance program. And when he’s asked how he’ll turn these promises into reality, he says that he and his supporters will help bring about a “political revolution.”

That’s a phrase Sanders uses often, but what does he mean by it? Sanders has said that if he wins the presidency, his victory will be accompanied by a “huge increase in voter turnout”—one that he thinks might end Republican control of Congress. But Sanders acknowledges that the House and Senate could, in spite of his best efforts, remain in GOP hands come next January.

Given that likelihood, Sanders offers an alternate means for achieving his political revolution. He says he knows that a Democratic president can’t simply “sit down and negotiate” with Republican leaders and forge a series of compromises. Anyone who's observed the GOP’s behavior over the course of Barack Obama’s presidency would not dispute that, and in any event, no compromise with Republicans would ever lead to single-payer anyway.

So what then? How would a President Sanders get Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan to pass any of his big-ticket items? This is the model he proposes:

What we do is you put an issue before Congress, let’s just use free tuition at public colleges and universities, and that vote is going to take place on November 8 ... whatever it may be. We tell millions and millions of people, young people and their parents, there is going to be a vote ... half the people don’t know what’s going on ... but we tell them when the vote is, maybe we welcome a million young people to Washington, D.C. to say hello to their members of Congress. Maybe we have the telephones and the e-mails flying all over the place so that everybody in America will know how their representative is voting. [...]

And then Republicans are going to have to make a decision. Then they’re going to have to make a decision. You know, when thousands of young people in their district are saying, “You vote against this, you’re out of your job, because we know what’s going on.” So this gets back to what a political revolution is about, is bringing people in touch with the Congress, not having that huge wall. That’s how you bring about change.

The rest of the DK article debunks that concept that Paul Ryan or Mitch McConnell could be influenced by these new voters but we never get to this issue and Sanders himself admits that he will not bet elected without this revolution. So far we are not seeing any evidence of this revolution. Again, Sanders's whole campaign is based on this revolution and so it is appropriate to ask where these new voters are?

It is hard for me to take Sanders' proposals seriously including the ones you want to talk about unless and until we see some evidence of this revolution.

Again, where are these millions and millions of new voters?