So Bernie is ok with all the anti-LGBT bills being passed in the states

[dbackjon]

Because he believes in State's Rights?



That is what he said in voting against DOMA - that civil rights are a state's concern.

[thereismore]

1. Simple anwer: no. Anything else you might be concerned about? nt

[riversedge]

2. sanders wants to pass off his Medicare for all off the State Govs!!

[rurallib]

18. and the sentence ends - within highly limited parameters.

[roguevalley]

34. I am amazed at the mendacity of some here. You would think by now I wouldn't but

I am.

[NurseJackie]

3. Well that's disappointing.

I wonder if all this deep-vetting will make it harder for him to win re-election to his Senate seat. (And I also wonder if he'll run as a Democrat or an Independent?)

In any case, it's encouraging to see that people are starting to pay attention and give the Senator from Vermont a little more critical scrutiny.

[el_bryanto]

9. I'm curious in what sense you mean critical?

Often times people use that term to mean in-depth and thorough - but I take it that since you approvingly responded to an distorted assertion with no proof or evidence you don't mean in-depth and thorough. Presumably you just like people talking negatively about Bernie Sanders.

Bryant

[NurseJackie]

13. You'll just have to take it at face value ...

... and not waste time searching for hidden meaning.

[Change has come]

71. Speaking for myself, that will be the day!

[Armstead]

12. A little more critical LYING you mean?

[guillaumeb]

28. Amazing how one deceptively worded post can convince people.

Actual scrutiny would allow people to easily refute this nonsense.

[lostnfound]

57. Disappointing the depths to which some will go to piss off their fellow democrats with distortion

[JackBeck]

68. If you knew anything about the marriage equality movement

you'd be aware that the OP is being disingenuous.

How about you do some of the leg work, as well, before pontificating?

[beam me up scottie]

4. When did he say that? Surely you have a link or you wouldn't make that claim?

I am so sick of this debunked meme, one more time, he didn't want the feds to overturn states who passed same sex marriage legislation, here's the transcript:

I was a strong supporter of civil unions, I believe that. I voted against the DOMA bill, I believe that the federal government should not be involved in overturning Massachusetts or any other the state because I think the whole issue of marriage is a state issue.

He voted against DOMA while your candidate supported it and went on a crusade against equality because she thought heterosexual marriage was "sacred".

Hillary Clinton on Gay Marriage 2004:

When you find proof that he opposed marriage equality - a link proving he actually said that, get back to me.

[dbackjon]

22. It is right there

He believes that marriage is a state issue.


If that belief had prevailed, my wedding Saturday never would have happened

[beam me up scottie]

24. Bull, he didn't think the feds should ban it, he NEVER opposed marriage equality.

Now if HILLARY had prevailed your marriage Saturday wouldn't have happened.

She was the one who opposed it, remember?

Funny how you left that out and chose to distort Bernie's words instead.

[dbackjon]

27. Bullshit - he opposed it in Vermont in 2005

Both later changed to support it.

[beam me up scottie]

30. Prove it, where's your evidence?

He said that it wasn't the right time, he NEVER opposed equality.

[Fearless]

36. There is no evidence

The poster posted this shit in the LGBT group twice over the last six months. Thank you for refuting it. I'm very tired of fighting the same battle over and over again.

[beam me up scottie]

40. The smear never caught on no matter how many times they posted it.

But they just won't stop, and not a word about Hillary's opposition, funny that.

[Fearless]

43. Indeed.

[dbackjon]

44. I am tired of blind Sanders supporters refusing to acknowledge that BS is not the advocate portrayed

[Fearless]

47. Still false.

[Politicalboi]

59. OMG "Not the advocate portrayed"

Says a Hillary supporter. You can't be serious. And who is Hillary. We've seen so many sides of her all these years. She doesn't even know who she should be.

[dbackjon]

42. LOL - so when is the right time?

Saying it wasn't the right time IS opposing it.


How hard is that to understand?

[Fearless]

46. This is still false.

[beam me up scottie]

48. I was there and Prism's account is correct.

The supreme court decision tore Vermont in two, legislation would have been defeated.

Once more: Bernie never opposed marriage equality.

Get back to me when you have proof of your claim, until then your smear is just more Fox news style historical revisionism.

[dbackjon]

50. He opposed Gay Marriage at the time.

Or are you saying he secretly supported it, but was too chicken to come out and say it?


He didn't issue support until 2009.

[beam me up scottie]

52. No he didn't, if he opposed marriage equality he would have voted for DOMA.

He said Vermont wasn't ready, that's not the same thing as opposing it.

Post your proof or stop making false claims.

[TM99]

53. You have been repeatedly proven wrong.

Why do you continue to push incorrect information?

Do you think if you can smear Sanders just a little bit, it will make up for Clinton being an LGBT bigot until 2013? Do you think it will counter her active support for DOMA & DADT?

Sorry to break it do you, but that is just a mind game you are playing with yourself.

[dr60omg]

64. TRY A FACT

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/bernie-sanders-was-full-gay-equality-40-years-ago

[togetherforever]

70. That is an untruth you posted

[guillaumeb]

31. Very nicely put.

Typical FOX News type nonsense.

[arcane1]

5. Believing the states should decide means he agrees with every decision?

Man, the questions get more stupid by the day

[Armstead]

6. Once again deflection and distortion

He used states rights as a strategy to try to defeat DOMA -- a regressive bill which was actively supported by Hillary and Bill and Family Values Democrats.

He gave them a possible "out" but they refused to take it.

Don't fucking criticize him for trying to stop an assault on LGBTs and twist it to the opposite of what he was doing.

[beam me up scottie]

7. ^^^THIS^^^

So tired of the only candidate who actually voted AGAINST DOMA being raked over the coals for his vote.

By supporters of Mrs. 'My marriage is sacred and lgbt people don't deserve the same civil right' Clinton no less.

[m-lekktor]

10. as a gay guy this misrepresentation by the Hillary people always pisses me the fuck off BADLY .

Especially after seeing her 2004 video where she proclaims marriage is a sacred vow between and man and a woman. I guess gay Hillary supporters need to cling to any lie or slight of hand to justify their support for the likes of her over the person who has been with us all along

[DemocraticWing]

14. The "states rights" language was in fact promoted by LGBTQ leaders during that time.

It's an absolute insult that people keep smearing Bernie's record, and in turn smearing the history of LGBTQ people, simply to win points for their candidate. It's the lowest tactic used by either side in this election, in my opinion.

[dbackjon]

45. Wrong - it was not supported by anyone with a brain.

[TM99]

55. It most certainly was

after states began individually promoting civil unions and marriage rights. They had to fight the Federal level DOMA by supporting a "state's right" argument.

You can stomp your feet and scream all you want, but it does not change the actual historical facts of the matter.

[JackBeck]

66. I was intimately involved with getting marriage equality passed in this country

and you damage the history of our movement by spreading such nonsense.

[JackBeck]

65. I was about to post the same thing.

Anyone who was actively involved in the decades long fight for marriage equality would know that folks like Evan Wolfson at Freedom to Marry had a state-by-state strategy that they promoted and implemented, which they argued would strengthen our federal case.

[arcane1]

19. Not to mention the "logic" is completely brain-dead. It's like saying...

It's like saying "I believe states should elect their own governors" therefore I agree with every republican governor

[dbackjon]

23. He opposed Gay Marriage at the time as well.

He didn't give them an out.

His belief fits in well with racists

[beam me up scottie]

37. How does his belief in marriage equality "fit in with racists"?

What an absurd accusation, he never opposed lgbt rights.

[dr60omg]

56. Sanders never in public life opposed marriage equality ... factual information fact check

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/sep/29/chuck-todd/nbcs-chuck-todd-bernie-sanders-there-same-sex-marr/

I first became aware of Sanders in the early 1980's and back then he was for equal rights for all Americans and stood up for LGBTQ rights ...
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/bernie-sanders-was-full-gay-equality-40-years-ago

http://www.queerty.com/32-years-before-marriage-equality-bernie-sanders-fought-for-gay-rights-20150719

[JackBeck]

67. It truly breaks my heart to see a consistent ally besmirched in this manner. n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

8. Of course not.

Although at this point a whole bunch of Democrats have voted for an early House version of that bill, like about 60 of them. Like a long list of Hillary's Georgia endorsers. The Senate made it worse and the House has not voted on worse and it looks like their Senate Democrats voted no on the worse version. But it arrived in their chamber with dozens of Moderate Democratic yes votes attached, which is disgusting.

[DemocraticWing]

11. Why do Hillary people continue to insult the nearly half of LGBTQ people who support Bernie?

I apologize for not fitting into the neat "good gay" box that acquiesces to the opinions of Hillary supporters, but I'm starting to think that people only feel our rights matter when it's advantageous to them.

[dbackjon]

25. Why do Bernie Supporters continue to insult the GLBT people that support Hillary?

And yes, you are right - non LGBT Sanders supporters are trying to tell mistruths about Sanders support for LGBT rights as a hammer against LGBT Clinton supporters

[Fearless]

35. Do you understand that challenging points of view is the point of a primary??!

It's not our fault is you don't have real answers to Hillary's terrible positions on a variety of issues.

[dbackjon]

49. My views are about halfway between Hillary and Bernie

Both are miles better than any GOP candidate.

I will gladly vote for either.


Tired of the LGBT records of both being misrepresented and my rights once again being used as a political football by those that in 2005, like Sanders, wanted us to "wait until the right time" for equality.



Outside of the LGBT community, there was almost no support here on DU, for LGBT equality. And that is the truth.

[Fearless]

60. You are still wrong on Bernie and LGBT views.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

39. Probably because they support Hillary.

I'm sure Bernie supporters are out there insulting heterosexual Hillary supporters all the time too. At least that's what they tell us.

[Zorra]

15. Do you honestly, seriously believe that Bernie is ok with anti-LGBT bills?

Any anti-lgbt bills?

Really?

[UglyGreed]

16. Link???

[Capt. Obvious]

17. Look at these words I just typed

Checkmate!

[NurseJackie]

21. Look at me ...

... now look at your man. Now look at me!

[Prism]

20. You know better than this

Bernie argued states rights on LGBT issues when the federal government was looking to fuck us (DOMA and the FMA) on a federalized level.

C'mon, man. Our history isn't that complicated or distantly in the past. This was a basic refrain and tactic by our own community's leaders during the age of federal anti-LGBT threats.

[dbackjon]

26. Then why did he oppose Gay Marriage in Vermont until 2009?

If he believed in states rights then, is he a flip-flopper?

[Fearless]

33. That is false.

[Prism]

38. Mischaracterization

Vermont had just gone through a bruising fight over civil unions, and he thought it best to let the issue settle a bit before going back into battle.

Acting as if Sanders was against equality is just a nonsensical smear that doesn't hold up to the slightest scrutiny.

This is how we treat our long-term allies?

[dr60omg]

58. Thank you I cannot believe someone is attempting to smear Sanders on this issue

[Jester Messiah]

29. *sigh*

Trash, ignore, move on.

[Fearless]

32. Did you not get it last time you posted this bull shit??

You're wrong.

[whatchamacallit]

41. This is right up there with the 'Denounce Marxism' OP

[Vote2016]

51. No, that's not how it works. States can grant additional rights in advance of a federal

response but cannot roll back rights granted at a federal level. Sanders was for letting progressive states (like Massachusetts) recognize gay rights when Bill and Hillary were pushing DOMA down everyone's throat, but states do not have rights to un-recognize liberties once the have been acknowledged on a federal level.

It's the 14th amendment, Sister!

[Hassin Bin Sober]

54. You have it backward. DOMA was an attack on more enlightened states moving to legalize ...

... same sex relationships.

So yeah, it was a state's rights issue. The right wing pigs were having a freak out and passed an unconstitutional law, trying to do an end around of The 14th Amendment.

[Politicalboi]

61. Who supported DOMA

Checkmate indeed. DOMA came from the Clinton's. The same guy who couldn't keep it in his pants. Disgusting.





Any way the wind blows.

[senz]

62. You will not find any candidate better than Bernie on LGBT rights.

In the 1970s, Bernie called for full gay equality. As a candidate for Vermont’s governor, Bernie advocated abolishing all laws on homosexuality.

Bernie has long been a supporter of same-sex marriage. He voted against the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) passed by Congress in 1996. He is the only presidential candidate in the 2016 race who can say that.

1999, Bernie voted against an amendment that would have prevented same-sex couples in Washington D.C. from adopting children.

Bernie supported Vermont's 2000 civil union law and 2009 law legalizing gay marriage.

In 2011, he called on President Obama to “join in supporting marriage equality.”

In 2013, he co-sponsored the Uniting Families Act, which would have allowed partners of any legal U.S. citizen or resident to obtain lawful permanent residency. This bill was primarily intended to allow LGBTQ residents and citizens of the United States to bring their partners into America, just as members of opposite sex couples are able to do.

[dr60omg]

63. Again reposting a thread does not make it any truer

Sanders has always stood up for LGBTQ rights. Are you kidding me?

http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/bernie-sanders-was-full-gay-equality-40-years-ago

http://www.queerty.com/32-years-before-marriage-equality-bernie-sanders-fought-for-gay-rights-20150719

Why did he say that? Because he was not going to put up with Clintons ridiculous DOMA forcing people into closets ....

http://www.queerty.com/5-times-bernie-sanders-was-championed-our-cause-before-it-was-popular-20160131

He did it for an important reason and that was not to allow people in Vermont to be placed into a closet by the right wing and the DLC ...

[jfern]

69. Weakest straw man ever