2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIt's still hard for me to believe Trump could beat
either Democratic candidate in the general election. While public sentiment is anti-Washington, I still don't think Americans in general are quite that crazy. Maybe I'm wrong but it seems too big of a leap to me.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)And I think either DEM can win.
Should be a good race.
6chars
(3,967 posts)People who have no doubt are going to be wrong quite a lot. I would bet on Hillary or Bernie whichever against Trump. But it could really go the other way - elections have their own weird dynamics. The Dean Scream. The Gore Sigh. Romney's 43%. Sarah Palin's existence.
EmperorHasNoClothes
(4,797 posts)But there you go.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)after the old Nixon got kicked around.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)Sanders however:
Trump can't run to the left of him like he can Clinton
Trump can't accuse him of flip flopping like he can Clinton
Trump can't accuse him of supporting the crappy free trade deals like he can Clinton
Trump can't accuse him of being corrupt like he can Clinton
Or being beholden to special interests and big banks and corporations like he can Clinton
Or supporting the Iraq war like he can Clinton
Sanders is popular - Hillary and Trump are not
Sanders is seen as trustworthy - Hillary and Trump are not
Sanders won't drive down the vote on the left - like Hillary - or inflame the voters on the right, like Trump and Hillary.
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A vote for Hillary in the primaries is a vote for Trump in the GE. 2/3rds of Democrats don't trust her and over half the nation has an unfavourable view of her personally. Her endless flip flopping means people don't believe she will do what she's claiming (TPP anyone?) and of course 2016 is the year of the outsider - Hillary is seen as the ultimate insider.
Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Funtatlaguy
(10,878 posts)I agree with all of what you said.....except
Trump would label Bernie as a crazy Communist and the right wing media would push that fir him.
I think Bernie could overcome it but he would constantly have to be defending what a democratic socialist is.
EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)The right-wing might do that, but a few things have negated that:
- The right-wing have largely rejected the MSM, including the right-wing media. Trump has been attacking Fox News as dishonest and biased for months and a large number of wingers agree... go spend any time on right-wing sites and you'll see endless hatred for Fox... This isn't 2000... and that matters.
- Bernie isn't trying to win over people that get there's news only from Fox... saying that he HAS reached out a lot more to Fox than Hillary and isn't scared of them.. and they don't have much of a narrative against him... unlike the Clintons.. and they'll only have a few months to develop one
- Dems and Dem independents are embracing the label socialism... look at all the voters in NH trying to decide between Trump and Sanders... they'd heard socialist and communist for months are were unfazed by it.
- MANY on the right have embraced Trump's rejection of corporate campaign contributions, his rejection of Obamacare with something universal, and his mix of right-wing and left wing policies - a lot of that translates nicely onto Bernie and so won't be seen as "crazy".
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Trump would rip him to shreds, and Bernie is too decent to rip back. WE're gonna need a pit bull against him. I saw Hillary shred the GOP in the Witch Hunt hearings. She can take on Trump.
DrDan
(20,411 posts)the ads with BS saying "I am a socialist and everyone knows that," will be playing non-stop should he win the nomination
jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)Run left of Clinton. We get that you have a candidate and its not her and you don't like her at all yada yada... still saying ridiculous things makes you look stupid.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)Like many otehrs I had assumed trump had cooked his own goose several years ago with hios Birther shit against Obama. Remember how absolutely insane he seemed and was portrayed with his "detectives and proof" that Obama was not born in the US?
Remember how he would be revealing that shortly? Then promptly dropped it?
No he's got some kind of magic touch for cueing into the stupid portion of the American psyche
mmonk
(52,589 posts)That being said, I think wholesale panic in much of the public would ensue in the general election.
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)He's spending less money than anyone else and he has billions.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)Even many Republicans despise him.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)There is TONS to shred him on. All kinds of questionable business deals and the outright fraud of Trump "University," just for starters.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Skwmom
(12,685 posts)worried for their children because of what Donald Trump is saying. No, that is not why people are worried.
Trump tapped into a vein that was so obvious and layered that with part of Bernie's message.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)This "angry" America thing is dangerous, we are playing with fire IMO.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)address the anxiety people are feeling about not having a govt that works for them. People are hungry for a leader they can trust.
And with Clinton, Trump and the Republicans can so tarnish the Democratic Brand it will be years digging out of that hole. Oh, the irony of thinking that Trump would only tarnish the Republican Brand. He will but not to the extent the Clintons will tarnish the Democrats. The Democrats have engaged in undemocratic crap and have fully embraced the Clinton way of doing business and the Clintons "conducted" that business to an extent that cannot be matched.
coyote
(1,561 posts)He is an outsider and not part of the establishment. On the other side, I see Clinton as part of the problem in DC. Clinton is status quo and politics as usual. The is a definitely an anti-establishment mood running throughout the country and Clinton supporters appear to be totally blind to that.
Disclosure: I am a registered Independent
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)I also can't believe that the GOP will allow him to be their nominee.