Current Affairs Mag: Hillary should drop out - our we'll get Trump

[EdwardBernays]

Last edited Wed Feb 24, 2016, 12:00 PM - Edit history (2)

This echoes what so many Sanders supporters are saying... the usual line from Clinton supporters is that Sanders supporters must therefor be racist Trump fans...

Hopefully this will sink in before it's too late:

UNLESS THE DEMOCRATS RUN SANDERS, A TRUMP NOMINATION MEANS A TRUMP PRESIDENCY

Democrats need to seriously and pragmatically assess their strategy for defeating Trump. A Clinton run would be disastrous; Bernie Sanders is their only hope.


Instinctively, Hillary Clinton has long seemed by far the more electable of the two Democratic candidates. She is, after all, an experienced, pragmatic moderate, whereas Sanders is a raving, arm-flapping elderly Jewish socialist from Vermont. Clinton is simply closer to the American mainstream, thus she is more attractive to a broader swath of voters. Sanders campaigners have grown used to hearing the heavy-hearted lament “I like Bernie, I just don’t think he can win.” And in typical previous American elections, this would be perfectly accurate.

But this is far from a typical previous American election. And recently, everything about the electability calculus has changed, due to one simple fact: Donald Trump is likely to be the Republican nominee for President. Given this reality, every Democratic strategic question must operate not on the basis of abstract electability against a hypothetical candidate, but specific electability against the actual Republican nominee, Donald Trump.

Here, a Clinton match-up is highly likely to be an unmitigated electoral disaster, whereas a Sanders candidacy stands a far better chance. Every one of Clinton’s (considerable) weaknesses plays to every one of Trump’s strengths, whereas every one of Trump’s (few) weaknesses plays to every one of Sanders’s strengths. From a purely pragmatic standpoint, running Clinton against Trump is a disastrous, suicidal proposition.

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EDIT: I pared this down to 4 paragraphs to avoid it being locked - go read the whole thing--

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Donald Trump is one of the most formidable opponents in the history of American politics. He is sharp, shameless, and likable. If he is going to be the nominee, Democrats need to think very seriously about how to defeat him. If they don’t, he will be the President of the United States, which will have disastrous repercussions for religious and racial minorities and likely for everyone else, too. Democrats should consider carefully how a Trump/Clinton matchup would develop, and how a Trump/Sanders matchup would. For their sake, hopefully they will realize that the only way to prevent a Trump presidency is the nomination of Bernie Sanders.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2016/02/unless-the-democrats-nominate-sanders-a-trump-nomination-means-a-trump-presidency

[Cali_Democrat]

1. So Bernie can't beat Hillary on his own?

Bernie is such a weak primary candidate that the only way he can win is to have Hillary drop out?

Not much of a revolution, huh?

[EdwardBernays]

3. You've got it

The Clintonites are so obsessed with their candidate (and delusional about her chances int he GE) that they'd rather her win the nomination and lose the GE, than cop on to reality and support the person who can beat Trump.

You've succinctly illustrated exactly why we're probably going to have a President Trump... you can't see the forest for the trees.

[Cobalt Violet]

6. +1000

[CorporatistNation]

70. Forest Mis-spelled But RIGHT On Point!

No other outcome is possible...

[EdwardBernays]

84. fixed!

[appalachiablue]

89. K&R. Sad & We The People, Could Be The Losers.* Very Important Article.*MUST READ.

Check it out-

[appalachiablue]

105. THE Most Important 2016 Candidate ~ VERMONT FIREBFRAND SEN. BERNIE SANDERS

[DUbeornot2be]

4. Hmmm...

The latest Reuters poll shows Bernie up 6 points on Hillary...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141357814

She can't even get support here in her own group!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/110754172

She will lose in a landslide!

[treestar]

51. Then she need not drop out

[DUbeornot2be]

56. Yes...

I agree.

It will be much more decisive that way...!

[A Simple Game]

5. Bernie is a weak primary candidate? You need to start paying attention.

Bernie won the only primary they have had by 22 points. It was record setting, please pay attention.

[workinclasszero]

55. You pay attention to this Saturday

Your whole world is gonna change LOL

[Live and Learn]

61. I don't care what happens Saturday. Hillary offers no hope of anything including winning the GE.

I'm with Bernie until the convention.

[workinclasszero]

65. She has a way better chance to win the GE

Than the loser of the primary.

For sure.

[kristopher]

87. How will she deal with her taking $21M in legal bribes while running for president

Remember she'll be running against someone whose #1 claim is that he is "self funded" and can't be bought.

Do you Really Think running someone who is obviously bought is the best strategy?

[appalachiablue]

98. All The Way BERNIE: The Only One To Beat TRUMP!

[leftofcool]

7. Th revolution is dead

Seems the kids like to go the the rallies but they don't have time to vote.

[UglyGreed]

21. That's nice

so glad we can not help people who are sick or have a well educated populace.............

[workinclasszero]

57. The Bernie revolution was nothing but a campaign slogan

with zero reality behind it.

It died in the heat of Nevada.

Its an empty phrase that Bern fans never bring up anymore.

I wonder why?

[treestar]

48. +1

It's hilarious this concept that Hillary should drop out because she's winning, so Bernie can win.

[workinclasszero]

58. They are getting REAL desperate now

It seems.

And with good reason as Saturday in SC will show.

[workinclasszero]

52. No kidding...what a joke

If Bernie cannot beat Hillary in the democratic primary he is OBVIOUSLY way to WEAK to beat Trump in the general!

Its freaking logical people!

What part of this do Bernie fans not get???

[great white snark]

53. +1

Well put.

[PufPuf23]

99. I think we would have had a wider and more excellent array of Democratic candidates

had Hillary Clinton not competed in 2016.

The POTUS election would have been a walk-over whereas the Democratic Party is perhaps setting itself up for a major loss.

I like Bernie Sanders but it had never occurred to me until this election cycle that he run for POTUS.

I would rather had a healthy choice of candidates.

Hillary Clinton will also harm the Democratic down ballot elections compared Sanders or just about any other Democrat.

Sanders has been a surprisingly strong primary candidate and this should be food for thought.

Caveat is that I am far from a fan of HRC.

[Lazy Daisy]

2. Boston Globe

is asking independents to not vote in the D primary, but to vote in the R primary and vote for Kasich just to stop Trump.

What a crock of shit.

[6chars]

54. Kasich is going to stop Trump?

haven't heard that one anywhere else.

[Adrahil]

8. Yeah, 'cause Trump won't rip Bernie to shreds.

You think Trump has been vicious so far?

[EdwardBernays]

10. Sanders is Trumps krypotonite

Trump can't run to the left of him like he can Clinton

Trump can't accuse him of flip flopping

Trump can't accuse him of supporting the crappy free trade deals

Trump can't accuse him of being corrupt

Or being beholden to special interests and big banks and corporations

Or supporting the Iraq war

Sanders is popular - Hillary and Trump are not

Sanders is seen as trustworthy - Hillary and Trump are not

Sanders won't drive down the vote on the left - like Hilary - or inflame the voters on the right, like Trump and Hillary.

--

A vote for Hillary in the primaries is a vote for Trump in the GE. 2/3rds of Democrats don't trust her and over half the nation has an unfavourable view of her personally. Her endless flip flopping means people don't believe she will do what she's claiming (TPP anyone?) and of course 2016 is the year of the outsider - Hillary is seen as the ultimate insider.

[Adrahil]

27. I think you are kidding yourself.

I think Trump will harp of Bernie's more leftist past, and he will make "socialist" the most used word in Presidential election history.

And frankly, Bernie is decent. He won't rip Trump apart in the way he needs to.

[workinclasszero]

77. Trump wont use nice words like socialist to describe Bernie

He wont dance around Bernie's CO status in the Vietnam era either.

And he will hammer him incessantly about his faith or lack thereof.

Anybody who thinks Bernie could beat Trump is living in a dream world.

[EdwardBernays]

104. no one cares about the word socialist

Democrats now prefer it to capitalism.

Sanders is trusted and liked so much more than Trump... Sanders won't have to attack all the time, that's not what's getting Sanders huge crowds. Sanders simply has to be the adult and let Trump shoot himself in the foot. Trump has almost nothing to attack him on.

Hillary on the other hand is like a big bullseye... She's already not trusted by a large majority of Dems, and almost all Republicans. She's being investigated by the FBI. Many man people on the left and right believe she's corrupt. She's a scandal generating machine.

Trump can literally just make all of the press focus on a new Hillary scandal a day, for months. And Hillary is hurting herself with progressives on an almost daily basis... she will drive down the Dem vote and she and Trump will drive up the Republican vote.

[appalachiablue]

106. +1 The realities and well said.

[kristopher]

100. That is a very good summary.

The choice will be between Trump the Authoritarian and Bernie the Reformer

[Waiting For Everyman]

47. The article covered that in detail.

You might read it.

[Adrahil]

68. I DID read it.

But thatnks for the snark. The author basically hand-waves all that. Now I get it. But that's why we support different candidates. You buy this argument. I do not. I think it's fantasy.

[Trust Buster]

9. I see it differently

The Republicans were planning to support their nominee with $1.5 - $2 billion of funding. And that was before Justice Scalia's passing. A nominee Sanders collecting small donations would be lucky to take in $100 - $200 million in donations and that's being very generous. Every time you turn on your television in the summer and fall, you will be inundated with ads decrying the dangerous Socialist the Democrats are running. Sanders will NOT have the money to respond adequately. The Republicans understand that, due to rapidly demographic changes, they won't have the Legislative Branch as an avenue to force their Fascist agenda down our throats. Consequently, the Judicial Branch means EVERYTHING to them. They will spare no expense.

[EdwardBernays]

11. that's ignoring the data

Socialism is more popular with Democrats and democratic leaning independents than capitalism.

That will drive up Sanders support in the GE.

And if that's all they have on Sanders, that's not much.

Consider the ENDLESS things they can run against Hillary. An avalanche of stuff.

And consider that now, at this point, 2/3rd of Democrats don't trust her, and over half the population views her unfavourably.

Sanders has the opposite numbers: huge trust and huge favourability ratings.

Trump can't run to the left of him like he can Clinton

Trump can't accuse him of flip flopping

Trump can't accuse him of supporting the crappy free trade deals

Trump can't accuse him of being corrupt

Or being beholden to special interests and big banks and corporations

Or supporting the Iraq war

Sanders is popular - Hillary and Trump are not

Sanders is seen as trustworthy - Hillary and Trump are not

Sanders won't drive down the vote on the left - like Hilary - or inflame the voters on the right, like Trump and Hillary.

[Trust Buster]

12. A simple terrorist attack in the next 8 months could completely nullify your argument.

Economics is just a part of a larger set of concerns on the electorate's mind. We live in a fluid world. Nothing is set in stone.

[EdwardBernays]

14. Wrong

It would help Trump:

He wants to "build a wall"
Stop muslims temporarily from entering America
Didn't vote for the Iraq War
Didn't cheerlead for for Libya fiasco

[Trust Buster]

19. That's what I said.

[EdwardBernays]

20. ah sorry - apologies

I'm trying to respond to a lot of things and misread yours.
My apologies...

I've learned if I don't respond to everything that people accuse me of dodging things..

My bad!

[Agschmid]

13. Trump can and will accuse him of all those things and many others.

You think the GE will be a fair fight?

That's doubtful.

[EdwardBernays]

15. you miss the point

Trump is seen as dishonest, which doesn't matter when both candidates are seen as dishonest, but matters GREATLY when one is seen as honest.

Sanders is the only candidate running that people ACTUALLY trust.

Trying to slime him will be about as effective as sliming Jimmy Stewart.

He has very very few plays against Sanders and an endless rainbow of plays against Clinton.

[Trust Buster]

23. Human nature is a much stronger aphrodisiac.

First and foremost, Americans want to feel safe. Bernie is a man of virtuous character. In that we agree. But they'll slime him all day long on matters of national defense.

[EdwardBernays]

33. The thing is

in a Bernie v Trump matchup Bernie actual has a record he can stand on... and because he's much more trusted than Trump he can use that record.

[Trust Buster]

36. Bernie has distinguished himself on economic/domestic affairs.

He has not distinguished himself in the area of national security and foreign affairs. That's fine, there is no such thing as a perfect candidate. But, Trump will attack him over and over on that front. And, if God forbid, we were to experience a serious terrorist attack, the crowd will run to the other side of the room. Poor Jimmy Carter was done in by something outside of his control - the Iran hostage crisis. Same goes for Hillary. Polls this far out are really not relevant because the world is so fluid. We just need to coalesce around the eventual nominee or we'll be shooting ourselves in our collective feet.

[EdwardBernays]

39. Even if I take that completely at face value

It's a weakness that Bernie and Hillary share v Trump.

There's still endlessly more negatives (and lack of positives) in a Hillary candidate vs Bernie.

[GuardianOne]

35. he'll respond

He'll admit it isn't his strong point. He'll have the best and the brightest to advise him. No president is ever an expert on everything. He'll make mistakes, he'll learn. He isn't like Trump or Clinton, full of themselves. He's one of us. He gives a damn, and has, long before election time.

And here's a controversial thought for all of you. There's a song with a verse that goes something like What if God were one of us?

When a man or woman reaches out for those in need, simply because its the right thing to do, is that not a Christ like thing? And Buddha. Any benevolent God. I'm not for organized religion, neither do I condemn atheists. The closest to describe me is a spiritual agnostic. Grin.
So those of you who support Bernie, keep the image of good over evil in your head. Visualize him as president.
Don't let the naysayers get you down.
Amen. Grin.

[Trust Buster]

44. I appreciate your sentiments.

I just wish that God would have a talk with those faux Christians that control the House....LOL

[GuardianOne]

102. allow me

Allow me to be so presumptuous as to speak for God/Gods/UnGods Grin.

I answer prayers. I'm not responsible for those idiots who haven't a prayer when it comes to knowing what holiness is. Those people don't even have access to my voice-mail.

[HillareeeHillaraah]

59. Clap everybody...

...c'mon clap real hard if you believe! If you really believe he'll be president you have to clap harder!

[GuardianOne]

101. applause

Yes, certainly applaud, and then applaud so that Hilary won't have to answer the judge about the e mails. Or her speeches. Or the you tube videos that show her lying.

Yes, make fun of me. You're HILARious Like your choice for President.
Oh, and I consider it an honor that you don't like what I said. You can only respond by mockery. Enjoy yourself.

[Agschmid]

25. No I don't miss your point.

I just vehemently disagree with it, no matter who is out nominee we have an uphill battle right now based on turnout numbers.

To pretend otherwise is futile.

[Trust Buster]

17. Certainly not fair in the area of campaign funding.

[EdwardBernays]

22. money

Sanders has been out raising Clinton, and because people are doing it will small amounts that can basically go on ad infinitum.

And all that Super Pac money is only as powerful as the messages it pushes... ask Jeb Bush.

[Trust Buster]

24. The Big Dance requires a couple billion in this Citizens United landscape.

Financially speaking, the primaries are mere child's play. $27 donations won't cut it in the general.

[leftofcool]

28. Trump can't win an election in this country against Hillary

You might ask yourself why that is.

[Trust Buster]

40. The Republicans non-stop Benghazi and email efforts have damaged her reputation.

I think it's sad that Bernie supporters hang their hats on this politically motivated smear job that the entire Republican Party has engaged in. During her 10 hours of Benghazi testimony, I think Hillary came away with her head held high while the Republicans looked like politically motivated hacks.

[The Redheaded Guy]

42. In the battle of the trust issues, Trump wins, by a squeaker over Clinton?

Sanders? Like a red-headed stepchild.

[EdwardBernays]

97. He can and will

And all the Clintonites are gonna just stand around scratching their heads, saying "no one could've seen that coming"

[appalachiablue]

96. The serious issues Trump will exploit endlessly, and there are So Many!

Kick for an excellent, important article.



FEB.18, NATIONAL QUINNIPIAC POLL:
*SANDERS BEATS TRUMP* VERMONT FIREBRAND LEADS ALL POTENTIAL GOP RIVALS

February 18, 2016 *AMERICAN VOTERS FEEL THE BERN* In November Matchups, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; Spoiler Alert - Bloomberg Hurts Sanders More
American voters back Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont over Republican candidates by margins of 4 to 10 percentage points in head to head presidential matchups, according to a Quinnipiac University National poll released today. The closest Republican contender is Ohio Gov. John Kasich who trails Sanders 45 - 41 percent.

Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton trails or ties leading Republicans in the November face-off, the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University Poll finds. If former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg jumps into the race as a third party candidate against Sanders and Donald Trump or Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas, Bloomberg would hurt Sanders more than either Republican.

>SANDERS has the highest favorability rating of any candidate and the highest scores for honesty and integrity, for caring about voters' needs and problems and for sharing voters' values. He ties Clinton and Trump on having strong leadership qualities and falls behind Clinton and former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush on having the right kind of experience to be president.
>"It's certainly Sen. Bernie Sanders' moment. The Vermont firebrand leads all potential GOP rivals in raw numbers and raw emotion with the best scores for favorability and several key character traits," said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll. "The candidate running best against Sanders is Ohio Gov. John Kasich, and he's in fourth place with 6 percent in the Republican presidential pack, unlikely to make it to the main event. "Sanders has a lackluster 51 percent favorability rating, but that's better than all the rest. MOST OF THE TOP CANDIDATES HAVE NEGATIVE SCORES." ~ *More Info., Data:http://www.democraticunderground.com/1280121036

[Uponthegears]

30. Oh, I see

is that because Hillary's financiers don't really care about electing a Democratic president and will pull out if Hillary isn't the nominee? If they don't have their hand on the crank organ are calling out the tune, they will just sit this one out?

I thought Hillary's people were the "true" Democrats.

[Trust Buster]

37. No, that's not it at all. Bernie claims the he'll only accept small donations.

He says that he won't accept corporate money. Hillary's financiers have nothing to do with that.

[Uponthegears]

72. So Bernie's not accepting corporate money will stop

ALLEGEDLY "loyal" big money Democrats from using independent expenditures to support the DEMOCRATIC PARTY candidate (like the Republican donors who will contribute the vast majority of that "scary" Republican war chest will use independent expenditure) exactly how?

Answer: IT WON'T

UNLESS those big money sources are backing Hillary for no other reason than that she is already bought and paid for by the 1%, i.e., IF they are REALLY a loyal Democratic constituency, they will fight for Bernie just as hard.

Of course, IF she is bought and paid for by the 1%, why are you supporting her?

[workinclasszero]

79. The republican are praying for Bernie to beat Hillary

It would be McGovern 2, a landslide for the teahaddists.

[PonyUp]

16. Off the top of my head I came up with 4 more things not mentioned that Trump can hit her with. nt

[EdwardBernays]

18. yep

America distrusts her and they don't even know the most damning stuff...

[leftofcool]

29. No, America does not distrust her, only a few. She has 87% support from Democrats.

[EdwardBernays]

32. you're living in an echo chamber

Unfavorable 53.0%

http://elections.huffingtonpost.com/pollster/hillary-clinton-favorable-rating

[PonyUp]

26. People need to wake up! Can you imagine the clowns Trump will nominate for the Supreme Court? n/t

[Proud Liberal Dem]

31. Nobody knows how anything is going to play out IRL

We can guess, speculate, theorize, take long-range polls that won't account for any number of things that *might* happen. I think that calls for either of our candidates to drop out before the primary is over is silly. We have two excellent nominees and the Republicans have a pathetic clown car of losers most of whom belong in a mental institution and should not be roaming free in this country let alone running for the highest office in the land (and, to some degree, the world). I don't have any hard evidence to back this up but I'm guessing that most Republicans are probably more scared that Trump is going to be their nominee than any of us are that Hillary will be our nominee.

[Senator Tankerbell]

34. Trump will have a field day with Clinton

Just imagine the jokes.
"Hillary is saying all kinds of mean stuff about me now but she was a fantastic and gracious guest at my wedding."

"Hillary criticizes me now but she loved me when I was donating thousands to her campaigns."

"Hillary is so mean to me but I won't hold it against my good golfing buddy, Bill Clinton."

Donald Trump will be the GOP nominee and Hillary Clinton is the worst possible candidate to run against him. Hillary supporters need to start dealing with that reality.

[Trust Buster]

38. I think the voters will have more substantive issues on their minds.

[Senator Tankerbell]

43. That's a very idealistic point of view.

I hope you're right. I would like to think you are but I just don't have that much faith in the corporate media and the general electorate.

[EdwardBernays]

63. This is America

we're talking about...

wilful ignorance is kinda our thing

[Trust Buster]

64. It is rather shocking that a man who imitated a handicapped journalist on stage,

amongst other non-presidential behavior, can be running away with the Republican nomination.

[EdwardBernays]

76. see

the thing is this:

People want an outsider and someone that's not PC, largely... even a LOT of Dems and independents (the largest voting block) want that...

They - all the Trump supporters - don't all - at all - agree with everything he says... if you listen to interviews they say that over and over again...

What they're drawn to are:

- his willingness to just speak his mind, without a filter
- his outsider status
- his seeming ability to reject money from corporations and special interests
- the FU he represents to the status quo

Now some of them do LOVE his anti-muslim immigration stance, some his wall, but those are subsections... assuming (not that you are - many here do) that all of his supporters are hard right racists is a very dangerous misunderstanding of the Trump phenomena.

[grossproffit]

41. au contraire. You must Trump gushing over Hillary during his Larry King 2008 interview.

Now, that's some reality.

[Trust Buster]

46. Well, that happens in politics all the time.

Bush and Rubio were best buddies until they ran against each other. Then the nails came out.

[Senator Tankerbell]

50. I'm aware of that

And yes, that will be used as defense by Hillary. I think the part you are missing is that Trump's voters won't care. Nobody who isn't already for Clinton will care. All Trump has to say about that is that's when he was "playing the game" and was buying politicians and extracting favors from them. Now he's working for the people, etc, etc. People eat that stuff up. Trump isn't held to same standards of other politicians. It doesn't seem like that will change.

[grossproffit]

69. Many of Trumps supporters are white Nationalists. I'll be working for our nominee.

[beaglelover]

45. What utter BS. The cons attract old white people as voters. The dems candidate will win with a

much more diverse voter base. Trump has no path to 270. Whoever the dem candidate is will beat Trump. Even Hillary! Go Hillary!!

[Trust Buster]

49. If the bitter divisions that I'm observing on this site heals.

I fear that we might end up being our own worst enemy.

[John K]

60. I agree with you - we need to stop the infighting

All Democrats should support the winner of the Democratic primaries. This is the only way we will have all our energy focused on winning Senate seats and the White House. I support Hillary, but will support Bernie over any of the dog food the other side will offer. The Supreme Court hangs in the balance despite the Scalia seat (Ruth B Ginsburg is on the bubble). Let's work together to get the Senate Judiciary to do their job. That should be something that we can agree on. Right???

[EdwardBernays]

71. sadly, that's not true

More latinos and non-white voters showed up to caucus for Trump in Nevada than either Dem.

And Hillary will suppress the Democratic vote and inflame Republican voters.

Plus the LARGEST party is now independents



They don't like Hillary as much as they like Trump, as every poll has said.

Plus 2/3rds of Dems distrust Hillary and over 50% of the population have an unfavorable impression of her.

A vote for Hillary in the primaries is a vote for Trump in the GE.

[BillZBubb]

81. You are terribly mistaken. Take off the rose colored glasses.

The republicans will turn out in record numbers to defeat Hillary, not necessarily to support trump. They viscerally hate her. Democrats will rally around Hillary, but there will be little enthusiasm from the left side of the party for her (to put it mildly). Younger voters will not show up in larger than usual numbers--neither trump nor Hillary will inspire them.

The independents will swing strongly to trump. They already don't like Hillary (her negatives are disastrously high among independents). Trump's slash and burn style will keep Hillary on the defensive the entire campaign. And she has a lot to defend.

Trump will beat Hillary if that is the matchup. Hillary's high unfavorability ratings are just too big a hurdle to overcome against a media savvy, non-politician in an anti-establishment environment.

Trumps path to 270 electoral votes isn't as difficult as you seem to think. Hillary will peak out at about 230--she won't win one of the southern states whose Democratic delegates will give her the nomination.

[beaglelover]

85. Trump has higher unfavorability ratings than Hillary. Plus I believe you are downplaying the

enthusiasm that Hillary will generate once she is the official nominee and running against Trump. But we shall see I guess. I'm very optimistic though that she will be the next POTUS!

[Waiting For Everyman]

62. After Trump defeats Hillary, it'll be harder to nominate another woman.

She will lose so bad, she will poison the well.

Geraldine Ferraro 2.0. (Remember her? There's a reason why many don't. She was "historic" too once upon a time.)

Excellent article, and crucial that every Dem voter understand this. It can't be made clearer than it was stated there. Unfortunately, those who don't have internet access probably won't know about how important this is to consider because the MSM is unlikely to repeat it. We can do what we can ourselves, and hope it's enough.

[elana i am]

66. i'm starting to think we are going to get trump regardless

i think the electorate is extremely anti-establishment right now, and while theoretically that is a good thing, i'm starting to see a downside. i keep my politics to myself, but because trump is an entertainment figure there are a lot of people around me talking openly about the primaries. one thing i find disconcerting about the discussion is that a large number of them say the same thing - they are willing to vote for either sanders or trump, but not for anyone else. VERY anti-establishment (and also very WTF!?!?!?).

another very disconcerting thing about this is sanders and trump are political opposites. why would all these people around me be willing to vote for either of them and not anyone else? is it really, truly solely because they are anti-establishment that they get such support and it could be an "either one" situation? i mean i am a staunch progressive and i am repulsed by trump. for me it could never be an "either one" thing.

and what would happen if sanders and trump did win their respective noms? then who would they vote for?

eta: lest anyone think this is somehow support for clinton, just no. she is universally loathed in my little world.

[EdwardBernays]

67. They're not actually polar opposites

They both see some of the same problems (which is why voters like them both), but offer radically different solutions...

[Oilwellian]

73. Please pare your post down to 4 paragraphs

You're violating the copyright rules and the thread could be locked.

And the article is too important to be locked.

[EdwardBernays]

74. Done!

Thanks for the heads up!

[Oilwellian]

75. YW, and thanks back! n/t

[Jarqui]

78. Trump and Sanders have done well in part because people want change

Hillary represents more of the same vs Trump represents change (to people in general - not necessarily around here).

Both Hillary and Trump are the most disliked. Hillary for her deception/trust problem, Trump for his bombastic ignorant lack of respect for women & hatred of minorities.

So you can imagine many holding their nose in the voting booth. But I think the majority would say "I want change and to get it, let's give the outsider a try"

[Tarc]

80. So since Sanders cannot beat Clinton in an election, she should duck out

so he can win the next election?

I pity the mind that actually believes this tripe.

[BillZBubb]

82. Sanders beat the tar out of Clinton in New Hampshire. Or have you forgotten?

[Tarc]

88. Since I live here, sport, it's kinda hard to forget

Seeing how the tar-beating will go the other way in as many as 10 states over the next 6 days, your point is kinda irrelevant.

[EdwardBernays]

83. You misunderstand

The point is that the Dems obsession with the Clinton will lead them to ruin.

Nice try though.

[Tarc]

90. lol, "obsession"

They're called "voters", son, and they are making their preference known at the ballot box. If Sanders can't sway more people to his vision, than that's his problem. This isn't preschool where are stickers are given out to everyone who tries really really hard.

[EdwardBernays]

91. again

you misunderstand.

41% of the electorate are independents.

Hillary has the Clintonites and the DNC and her millions and millions from banks and lobbyists, and she is still barely winning. 2/3 Democrats don't trust her.

And that's her "base.

In the GE her base, which is only 29% of the electorate, isn't enough to get her victory.



And she will loose very badly to Trump.

This is all very obvious except to the obsessives and the apologists.

And when you have to watch President Trump getting inaugurated it will be obvious to you then to.

[Tarc]

93. independents will not vote for a racist, xenophobic scumbag

your entire premise is shit.

Your guy is about to tank in almost every upcoming primary, so Camp Sanders is pulling out the last, desperate stops. I get it, and sympathize, somewhat.

But it ain't working. Donald Trump, in all his fascist glory, is the #1 motivator for voter registration in Hispanic, Asian, Muslim, and African-American communities. I'm sorry to break this to you, but those are the people that matter this election; not your millennial clique that harps about the Iraq war vote, Goldman Sachs speech transcripts, and the like.

If your base was actually sizable, you'd, y'know, be winning more primaries.

[EdwardBernays]

94. They will

They CURRENTLY split indies 50/50.

But Clinton has had a very gentle opponent in Sanders. Three months with trump getting the media to discuss Hillary's endless scandals and corruption and how she's bought and sold and that number will change.

And Trump is MORE TRUSTED than Clinton.

In Nevada, between the Dems and the GOP 30% of hispanic voters went to the GOP. half of those went to Trump.

But look, hear me know, ignore me, and believe me when Trump is elected.

[Tarc]

95. These are fanciful predictions, not actual results

If you want Sanders to be the nominee, then you have to attract more primary voters to his vision. Pandering to supposed fears is a Trump tactic.

[beaglelover]

86. I know right? These Bernie supporters are not living in reality. After next Tuesday it is all but

over for Bernie. Hillary will clean his clock and his path to the nomination will be nonexistent.

[EdwardBernays]

92. and then

Trump will destroy her in the GE and you'll have no one but yourself to blame.

[slow clap]

[senz]

103. Gotta keep those clean, ethical types out of the White House, right?