2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Is Nice Enough But Hillary Is the One Who Can Govern!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-ruth-nemzoff/young-voters-that-think-bernie-can-lead-a-revolution-are-wrong-_b_9280872.htmlBy Dr. Ruth Nemzoff
I support Hillary, but don't get me wrong--I like Bernie. I know Bernie, I used to date him. Well, not actually him, but guys like him, smart, articulate, with great ideas to save the world . . . and from Brooklyn. After all I went to Barnard and there were plenty of guys from Brooklyn there. Besides, I was short. ( It was a time when gender roles were really constrained . No self-respecting male would date anyone a hair taller than he.) So believe me I dated a lot of guys who are like Bernie and would vote for him. But most of the guys on campus, the ones who did not date me because of my ethnic background might not. (Yes, there was more discrimination of more people -- Irish, Italians, Jews -- back then). Trump has proven that bigotry still sells.
Bernie doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of being elected in a general election. Just wait until the Republican "machine" goes after him as a socialist, an atheist, an Easterner and a Jew. Pew found that 50% of Americans would not vote for a socialist -- and yes, I know that a democratic socialist is different from a communist -- but really this is the age of sound bites not deep analysis.
Sound bites matter. Bernie has wonderful sound bites -- free college, for example. As Hillary points out: how will that work exactly? With so many Republican governors how are you going to get the money poured in.
The European model of free higher education won't lead to equity. Over there, a smaller percentage of the population go to college -- it is for the intellectual elite, which often means the children of the wealthy; they go to the equivalent of our prep schools, they have tutors, computers, travel etc.
(More in link)
edgineered
(2,101 posts)There usually isn't much support for someone that people don't like. Maybe one of Clintons good friends should tell her that relatively few people like her.
Vinca
(50,302 posts)Begin impeach proceedings. They'll be transferring their Obama hate, multiplied a hundred fold, to Hillary. It won't matter whether she can or cannot govern because they aren't going to give her the time of day when she wants to get something passed. It would probably be the same for Bernie, minus the impeachment. Until Republicans are run out of Congress, which can't happen until the next census and redistricting, we're screwed.
Response to MrWendel (Original post)
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Bryce Butler
(338 posts)On Tue Feb 23, 2016, 06:17 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
and fuck u Ruth - you know NOTHING... live in fear
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1320932
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Whoa. This isn't how Democrats treat people who disagree with them. MIRT?
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Spider Jerusalem
(21,786 posts)Norway has a higher percentage of university graduates than the US; Sweden is close (42% of 25-34 year olds, vs 43% in the US) and most of Europe is close to 40%...Germany and Hungary have lower percentages, but saying that's true overall is a demonstrable falsehood, see here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_25-_to_34-year-olds_having_a_tertiary_education_degree
Qutzupalotl
(14,322 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)until one remembers (or learns of) how much political and governing experience Bernie has. This article of course makes no mention of this.
Hillary has won two elections. Bernie has won something like 20. And he has been serving at the federal level for decades. He knows how the government works.
Response to MrWendel (Original post)
CentralMass This message was self-deleted by its author.
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)trillion
(1,859 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)I don't think Bernie could have done that.
dogman
(6,073 posts)Things didn't go well for her so everyone else should just give up. I wonder if she voted for change with PBO?
sadoldgirl
(3,431 posts)"Bernie is a nice guy, B U T......
Lady , times are a bit different from the
time you were young. Most of all the
question of climate change was not even
thought of.
Get with the times!
TM99
(8,352 posts)an expert on who can govern?
Jesus on a pogo stick!
So she used to date men she thinks are like Sanders. Wow broad brush biases and solipsism anyone?
Why should we give a flying fuck what this woman thinks about who will govern? I can't think of a single one.
Bill USA
(6,436 posts)at least, that's what the Sanders people tell me. .. to them it's quite clear.
They are preparing your stake. How do you want your fire --- with accellerant or without? Bernie's people know how to deal with [font size="+1"] HERETICS[/font].
TM99
(8,352 posts)Nah, but her husband is Dr. Harris Berman and their son is Jeff Berman, one of the top strategists and political consultants for Clinton's campaign.
Can you say conflict of interest, fluff piece, artful smear, etc?
http://medicine.tufts.edu/Education/Academic-Departments/Clinical-Departments/Public-Health-and-Community-Medicine/Faculty/Resident%20Faculty/berman-harris
http://www.bermanstrategies.com/founder.html
Bill USA
(6,436 posts)addressing her arguments?
TM99
(8,352 posts)and a confirmed bias. She is not qualified out side of her connection to the Clinton campaign to even opine on such matters. Period.
Bill USA
(6,436 posts)immoral, devious, scheming person, filled with hate. That's perhaps their strongest message. If you're not with us, you are a moral deviant. NO EXCEPTIONS!!
example: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1306736
TM99
(8,352 posts)goers in Nevada making anti-Semitic statements?
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... tried to point out these very things, but get hidden posts and "time outs" for their efforts.
So glad to see that people are paying attention out in the real world beyond the walls of this web site.
cali
(114,904 posts)Young people see right through her.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Perfect.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)Girl you know it's true.
Props to bernbabe for coming up with that DUzy.
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Eeek! Socialist!!
Karma13612
(4,554 posts)I am not, so this comment will suffice.
Hillary supporters and Bernie supporters are very different. They are expecting different things in a candidate. They are also most likely of different demographics (income, education, age, etc)
Their candidates are very different.
Bernie is a populist (yes, full disclosure, I support Bernie).
Ok, for those who are continuing to read the comment:
Hillary is a globalist. (Ha!!! Didn't see that one coming did ya!!)
Hillary looks at the world view, and has traversed the world multiple times, taking her message to women across the globe.
But, what does she represent in the US?
I am not sure what her supporters see except her perceived fierce support for women.
Period.
In all honestly, I cannot afford her.
She wants to means test social security. She doesn't believe in $15/hr across the board.
Free college? No way.
Single Payer? (what day is it? If it's the Wednesday before the next primary, no. The day after she wins the primary, sure, yes we can).
I just don't feel comforted by what she is trying to sell or project.
I worry about every paycheck, so if she doesn't make me feel secure, I can't simply feel good supporting her if Bernie loses.
On the flip side, if you are a Hillary supporter, chances are you are in a better place financially. You can calmly watch the shenanigans and laugh at we Bernie supporters who live and breath the next paycheck.
Well, at least some of us do.
We have a lot to lose. Students have huge debt.
Many Americans are underinsured. We make low wages.
We need to know our candidate is going to fight for us on those fronts.
We don't feel that from Hillary.
If we have to support Hillary if Bernie drops out, then we are not feeling confident.
The two candidate and their supporters are extremely different.
They are not interchangeable.
I cannot 'happily support Hillary" and sleep at night if Bernie is defeated. Don't expect me to.
I will vote for her, but will be worried that my SS and Medicare and retirement are NOT defended.
And WAR?
Well, I know who will fight to keep us from war and who will think of it as just a necessary evil.
Conversely, If Bernie was to win the nomination, I have read that some Hillary supporters are more than happy to support him. Well, think about it.
Why wouldn't you?????????????
He is fighting his ass off for everyone in the 99%. Including you.
Hillary, not so much.
Everyone has to understand the differences in these two candidates make it very hard to simply switch horses and vote with a smile on our face if our own candidate does not get nominated.
Sorry for the bad sentence structure, etc, but I really needed to say this.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Over at State Dept they're still cleaning up after her messes and scandals. Do we want 4 years of that shit in the WH? Do we want an indicted candidate?...that would be a GOP wet dream.