What sh*t is Ryan going to pull tomorrow with Biden?

[flamingdem]

You know they have something up their sleeve.

[Kteachums]

1. I hope to God we are ready no matter what the sh--!

[2on2u]

2. He might produce a dinosaur fossil that is only 9,000 years old. n/t

[drthais]

13. umm

that would be 6000, not 9000!
take it from me - I am from the land of the 'fossils were put there because God was trying to test us' and it is 6K

[kathman-duzi]

48. And that 6,000 year old fossil was a steaming pile of dino do do. Sorry! LOL Yep 6,000 years old!

[DollarBillHines]

3. I am not worried about Biden.

The decorum think will be left at the door.

I can hear Joe saying, "I'm sorry, Congressman, but I am not going to stand idly by and let you get away with that fucking bullshit".

Or something kinda like that...

[ejbr]

15. He'll continue...

"...because this is a big fucking deal!"

[Gman]

4. It'll be Romney's BS X 100

There are no fact checkers and reality is what they say it is in their alternate universe.

[flamingdem]

5. This could be one of their tactics:

Jonathan Chait, at New York, wrote that the hope of a dramatic exposé was an illusion: “The audience will only be able to grasp the atmospherics of the debate. And Paul Ryan is a world-class bluffer. He will spout figures with winsome authority, and Biden will come off as an angry old man.”

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2012/10/debate-lessons-for-biden-and-ryan.html#ixzz28wlXkgT5

[AlinPA]

9. Appearances are all that matter in a TV "debate". Looking sincere, earnest, alert, aggressive,

mannerisms, body language is what it is all about. Issues and truth mean nothing. Lies don't matter.

[flamingdem]

11. "atomospherics" "optics"

Joe can intimidate Ryan but for sure Ryan has been advised on how to behave. Mitt tried 6 different smiles to hold while Obama was speaking according to one of his handlers.

Ryan has something to use, repukes are good at the psyche out because they are so inauthentic acting comes naturally.

[AlinPA]

12. People and the media get sucked in to the acting.

[flamingdem]

19. I think Joe is good at that

but I wonder how they plan to unsettle him

[JohnnyBoots]

42. Ryan is a sociopath, he won't be intimidated. I just hope he

gets tripped up on facts or trying to explain his made up math for his make believe budget.

[treestar]

56. Then we should quit having them

Seriously.

[AlinPA]

65. Yes. Replace them with each candidate making a ten minute talk in front of a camera. What is done

now is bullshit.

[Democratopia]

17. I would like Biden to be angry

There is a lot to be angry about and Bidden should express his anger as passion. Biden should be the people's champion, fighting for the masses, the middle classes, the poor, the sick and the vulnerable who are under attack by Paul Ryan's ideology that puts billionaires and big corporations first at the cost of everyone else. It comes down to what is the right thing to do, what is moral and just. Obamacare was the right thing to do because it saves lives, whereas Paul Ryan would deny tens of millions access to healthcare, and give tax breaks to the wealthy. I want Obama and Biden to show the passion behind their decisions. The morally bankrupt have no answer to that.

[flamingdem]

20. maybe a seasoning of anger but he has to be careful

not to "look angry" passion yes, anger no in terms of optics

anger would be good from Ryan, it would make him look like he lacks self control, which he does

[Azathoth]

29. Biden could position himself as the seasoned vet putting the arrogant overconfident pup is his place

Assuming the Obama team actually lets Joe loose, tomorrow's debate almost certainly will be won in the spin room.

[gkhouston]

34. Well, clearly someone's already composed their narrative. n/t

[Cha]

37. Or Not. Biden can come off as an affable Vice President

who knows his facts and blasts Fuck Bluffer outta the water.

[flamingdem]

62. fuck bluffer

he he he

[gkhouston]

66. You know what we should do with debates? Tape them, and then air them, with

a "truth" rating superimposed on the bottom of the screen (how accurate the statement is on a scale of 1 to 10). Have a cumulative "truth meter" running, showing the number of statements rating and the average rating. Discuss the details of what was and wasn't truthy and why after the debate. Any truth rating that's 5 or lower should flash; any rating lower than 3 should be large, flashing and red. For a 10, superimpose a halo around the candidates' head. 1 gets you devil's horns.

[FVZA_Colonel]

16. He'll just stare at him

and lie through his teeth, even if Biden calls him out on it.

[begin_within]

6. I'm sure he will try to make it all about Obama.

The Republicans are consumed by one mission: get Obama out of office.
No matter what subject is brought up, Ryan will turn it into a diatribe against Obama.
I think Ryan will basically do the same thing that Palin did in her debate.
I think he will have 6 or 7 Republican talking points memorized and a couple of zingers.
Whenever it's his turn to talk, he will just recite one of the talking points.
He won't actually debate or actually answer any question put to him.
After it's all over, right-wing pundits will praise him for being "on message."

[flamingdem]

7. So he'll make it harder for Biden to attack

-- snip from the Daily Beast

Ryan will smile sweetly if he’s challenged about this and swear up and down that he’d never dream of doing such a thing. Biden’s big challenge is to counter that response—and to take the fight to his opponent in a way that his boss so demonstrably failed to do.

[courseofhistory]

24. The man

has no lips so he can't "smile sweetly". He doesn't come across as empathetic or very likable and I constantly see Eddie Munster when I watch him.

Biden just needs to remain firm and not show anger but also point out the lies, distortions and that sort of thing that Ryan spews.

Talk Origins has the following points for anyone debating a Gish Galloper:

Point #1: Know your audience
Point #2: Don't be the dull lecturer
Point #3: Be prepared for standard Gish evasions
Point #4: Avoid arrogance, appeal to authority, and similar attitudes and tactics

President Obama was clearly acting on point #4. On the other points, it's difficult to know if his debate prep included Gish Galloping. Since Romney's use of the technique is bound to be exposed by more than just this post, it's also difficult to know if he'll try it at the next debate or if the next moderator will be as badly equipped to deal with it as Jim Lehrer proved to be.

The president will need to prepare for the possibility of a flood of Gish Galloping, as Romney is reading from a script and is not a spontaneous man. President Obama will also have to consider that Romney might not use it again and prepare for the copious other techniques, equally as despicable, that may be brought to bear.

For the good of the American people, I hope Romney will consider foregoing the flood of galloping lies. President Obama is correct. We deserve to be told the truth. I won't count on Romney doing that and neither should the president. He needs to be ready for whatever Romney brings next.

This would pertain to the VP debate also. I think Biden should Smile and tell the audience that he'd like to expand on something his opponent said before answering the question. List the varying versions of the lie being told by Ryan and then ask if what was said originally is what he's going to go with or what is being said now, or something in between? (is that your final answer) and then refute it forcefully but not angrily. I think he could get by with one well placed "Is that your final answer?"


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/janet-ritz/romneys-creationist-debat_b_1941995.html

[flamingdem]

25. This is excellent, I was wondering how that's done, the countering of Gish Gallop

Staying under control and laser focused on the message and destroying opponent seems necessary, Joe can do it.

[meow2u3]

14. Biden ought to point out that Ryan was one of the ringleaders

of the Republican plot to sabotage the economy to make PBO look bad.

[Cha]

38. I forgot about that! There so much rich dirt on ryan that

ryan culitvated himself!

Years in the House doing his dirty deeds against the American People.. and For the Corporations and those who like to be flogged like the chickens voting for Col Sanders.

[Indpndnt]

39. There is good news.

Lyin', with his mother by his side to give him gravitas (as if), tried all of this 'smiling sweetly' and acting all knowledgable in front of the AARP convention and they took him to the woodshed. He ended up with a smirking sneer on his face and things went downhill from there. His act doesn't always go over as planned, no matter how carefully staged his efforts. It would help if the debate audience reacts, but I don't know if that's possible.

[Cha]

41. Oh Jeez! Thanks for bringing that up, Indpndnt!

Hope the audience is as smart as AARPers!

[mr_hat]

8. He'll stay on-script, as prepared. Unless

Joe can rattle him. Then we'll get the petulant little budget king.

[meadowlark5]

10. Who knows

But I know it will include lie, after, lie after lie. He didn't get the name Lyin' Ryan for nothing.

The only thing Biden can do is have some good facts and numbers and repeat what has been reported in the news for over a year now regarding the Ryan budget. It's not like Romney's big economic plan which is a mystery and will only be reveled if he wins, the Ryan budget has been talked about and voted through the congress. He can't lie about any of it since it's been out there for over a year and on the record. I'm sure Ryan will say it's his plan and Romney is on the top of the ticket, but Joe will have to refute that with even a date or an event where Romney said he supports the Ryan plan. I'm sure there are several to choose from.

Not only do I want Joe to do well for the dems, but I would take such delight in him making Ryan look like a lying, sniveling little rich boy - just like he is.

[andym]

18. Smooth lies over easy

Biden has to be Clintonesque to take the liar out. Mocking humor, humor and more humor.

[flamingdem]

21. On Lawrence O'Donnells show the Daily Show writer thought he should bring a sandwich

and just munch it during the debate ..! What he meant is that we see Biden as a regular guy like we're at a barbeque with him, so he should build on that comfort

[flamingdem]

26. Yes because Clinton enjoys himself, and so does Biden, that wins people over

in a moderated setting.

A town hall is another animal, Obama excels at connection with an audience

[rug]

22. He'll bite him on the neck when they come out to shake hands.

[flamingdem]

23. Eddie Munster strikes! nt

[still_one]

27. The gloves are off, they will not be given another free pass /nt

[TroyD]

32. Who won't? n/t

[elleng]

28. As rmoney can't remember or doesn't want to remember

what he said 1 hour ago, I don't think whatever they may have up their sleeves is worth a bucket of warm spit.

Joe B can handle the b.s. ryan ties to hand out.

I wonder when/whether the fact that rmoney keeps changing his positions will get so old for ryan that ryan will throw up his hands OR walk out the door.

[AZ Progressive]

30. Ryan will accuse Obama and Biden of being the liars

Pure Projection, just like the schoolyard bullies.

[Enrique]

51. +1

i see this coming...

[Alekei_Firebird]

31. Saw Stephenie Cutter on Rachel Maddow

Based on what she said, I'm confident that the Obama campaign knows exactly what Romney's trying to do, and they're now armed to the teeth with ammunition.

Ms. Cutter actually thanked Romney for giving them lots of material to work with on national TV. This campaign knows what it's gonna do and it's gonna be fun to watch.

[TroyD]

33. It's going to be nerve-wracking to watch

There's no fun in any of this with a pathological liar on the campaign trail and so much at stake.

Until Romney goes down on November 6, we can't relax.

[Maximumnegro]

45. Mmmm, relax. You can be engaged and relaxed.

Otherwise you're just going to stress out which can affect health and well-being. Nothing like being ready to GOTV but then
getting a cold or an ulcer or fatigue or all three just when you are ready to make a difference. Chill.

[fozzieferocious]

43. That's the point I keep trying to make...

They allowed Rmoney (i love how only 2 letters switch!) to come out all cocky and arrogant and say ANYTHING he wanted. He did nothing but flip flop, lie, distort and provide them with every bit of ammunition they need from now until Nov. 6 - and on live national TV no less. I half think it was strategy. It gave Rmoney a chance to flip again and come back to center, obfuscate and go after independents instead of having to try and defend the indefensible crap he's already said... that comes later.

[flamingdem]

46. I hope they use all that material well

and we should get more tonight!

[AverageJoe90]

57. Cool. Thanks for the heads-up.

Also, a hearty welcome to DU.

[Lint Head]

35. Whatever sh*t he pulls will be out of his own ass.

[Cha]

36. Well, I know some shit he pulled with a reporter the other day..

Last edited Thu Oct 11, 2012, 05:10 PM - Edit history (1)

who was merely asking him questions. lyin' told him to "quit trying to stuff words in his mouth."

Before the Pres debate romney was telling anyone who would listen that Pres Obama had trouble telling the truth. So the MFs are drooling pysch ops.

[atufal]

50. I thought that was Josh Mandel out of Ohio?

Mixing it up with the Youngstown Vindicator editorial board?

[Cha]

61. I don't know anything about what Mandel said but this

was from Ryan that I'm talking about.

[gateley]

40. Joe has an ability to get angry about the BS, but NOT at his opponent. It's a sight to behold.

[and-justice-for-all]

44. To get Joe angry and off his game...

when Joe needs to go for the jugular and not let up the entire time. He does not have to be enraged to do this either.

[Panasonic]

47. Biden better have a counter for the Gish Gallop ready.

In other words, requesting Monica to enforce the debate rules.

And heavy penalty to Lyin if he goes over, meaning he loses more time to spew his bullshit in each round.

[flamingdem]

49. She'll be ready for the Gish, I hope

and stop Lyin' from dominating just to dominate with the GG babble routine.

[Enrique]

52. they have announced their strategy

he is going to lie and then complain about Biden calling him a liar. Also he will call Biden a liar.

[flamingdem]

55. This format is great for liars, unless the moderator knows their stuff cold

She'll have to call Ryan on the lies as well or things will be out of control as with Lehrer

[no_hypocrisy]

53. That's easy:

1. Gish Gallop
2. Lie and then call Joe Biden a liar repeatedly

[flamingdem]

54. This is the problem with numbers and lying

people watching a debate won't keep it all straight and will favor the person who controls the debate.

So Biden might lose by spending time responding to the Gish Galloping lie swarm coming out of Lyin's mouth

[Bigleaf]

58. Ryan is going to spew a bunch of bullshit numbers (he is, after all, the numbers guy{SARCASM}) that

mean absolutely nothing but make him APPEAR to have this vast knowledge and grasp of the economy/taxes etc. I hope Joe is ready to call him out on all the bullshit we will hear from Lyin Ryan and take it to him surgically.

[polichick]

59. He'll lie asap - and also claim Dems are lying about him.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

60. Ryan is part of the etch a sketch strategy.

Do Not expect him to own anything he has proposed in the previous year.
He will attack Obama on every front. Biden has to be prepared to give
quick succinct answers like Clinton's "it's math." He can't linger too long
on one issue. Every time Ryan brings up Obama Biden needs to not only
correct the lie right there but do it quickly and immediately slam home
Willards lousy position on the issue.

Ryan has an opportunity here to cement repukes impression of him for
years to come. He feels like he won the lottery and he is going to fight
like hell to win this.

[desertduck]

63. i think it's safe to say both will do what they TEND to do: ryan will lie & biden will react swiftly

biden will react swiftly and maybe not as eloquently as bill clinton, but by god, he WILL react. and while the repukes want to think that biden is stupid...i know better. biden didn't get to where he is surviving in politics for as long as he has by being "stupid". he is a tough guy and he is quick and streetsmart. there will be no standing around doing nothing or politeness. biden has ALWAYS reacted and ryan will not get away with anything. in fact, he has given biden enough fodder for 10 debates. my hunch says that biden will come off a much stronger candidate and I feel MUCH better about this debate than the presidential debate we just had. I had a bad feeling going into that last one. this debate...not so much. i have no doubt biden will kick SERIOUS ass.

[flamingdem]

64. I love it! Now I'm totally unable to concentrate looking forward to this big deal debate

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

67. He'll lie and try to frame himself as the defender of medicare and social security

programs whose very existence runs contrary to his Ayn Rand-ian religion

[flamingdem]

68. Yes, that might be his number one lie

since seniors are waiting to hear what that's all about