2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders Accuses Hillary Clinton of Copying His Message
BOSTON Bernie Sanders, eager to bounce back from his loss Saturday in the Nevada caucuses, pointedly attacked Hillary Clinton on Monday, arguing that she was copying his message and that she might be improperly influenced by Wall Street donations to her candidacy.
(snip)
In fact, I think I saw a TV ad and thought it was me. But it turned out it was Secretary Clintons picture in the end, Mr. Sanders said at a news conference at an ironworkers union office in Boston.
Mr. Sanders went on to imply that Mrs. Clintons stances on issues were not as genuine as his own.
(snip)
Now I know that every candidate who has ever received special interest money always says that the millions and millions of dollars they have received will never influence them. Never, never, never, Mr. Sanders said. Well, the American people need to ask a very simple question: If these contributions from Wall Street and other powerful special interests have no influence over the candidate, why are these special interests making huge campaign contributions?
Simple question. Now maybe they are dummies. And maybe they just think they throw millions of dollars and expect to get nothing. Maybe. I doubt that very much.
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2016/02/22/bernie-sanders-accuses-hillary-clinton-of-copying-his-message/
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)uh huh
"I just tell the truth and they think it's hell"
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Last edited Mon Feb 22, 2016, 10:00 PM - Edit history (1)
Bernie is nice ever when he's in attack mode.
You just won't find a nicer candidate.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)and what he really didn't want to do...mano-a-mano with Hillary. Once he gets started on that damning list posted elsewhere, which applies BOTH to Hillary and the Republicans, the majority of the American people are not stupid. When someone helps them connect the dots, they'll get it and they'll not like it At All.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)about Americans now being stupid..
From Norway, from Portugal, from Germany, from The Netherlands, from Japan.... Americans, as a bunch, look... pretty fucking stupid.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)in Europe, and back then I got an earful.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)Germany, France, Austria, Belgium and the Netherlands. We spoke to a number of people and they were pretty happy that we were supporting Bernie. I swear they know more about our politics than many Americans do.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)have an investment in The Winner. Canadians, too.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)I'm sure they can watch it if they want to, but it's not intravenous over there, like it is here.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Those countries I mentioned, are just where I have been fairly recently.
I mean my experience traveling has ALWAYS been that others know more about America than too many Americans do.
My friends and colleagues around the world are mostly in the arts in one way or another, whether directly or indirectly, many musicians, and they think Bernie is our only hope. And not only for the US but, by association, for them as well. They LOVE the dude!
Friends in Korea, Taiwan, Russia, hell, even Oman. Same thing..
People I know in China, of course, say they could NEVER, EVER even imagine having someone like Bernie Sanders.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)Kardashian but has no idea who represents his/her state in the Senate or district in the House. Mention Joe Biden and get a blank stare. And it's not just government. Americans also have no clue about basic geography.
My elderly mom likes to watch Wheel of Fortune. When I watch with her, I never cease to be amazed at the level of sheer ignorance of the contestants. The other night a puzzle referenced Venice, and the man who solved it was asked what country Venice is in. The boob responded "Paris."
Shakes head.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)
.are idiots. Go see Michael Moore's brilliant new movie "Where To Invade Next" if you want to see the faces of Europeans being stunned by Americans.
We're all stupid really, that we've allowed democracy** be completely taken over by corporations.
I always asterisk democracy** because I know for minorities, it never has been a real democracy.
Moore's movie makes the link actually between our having never dealt with slavery and the rise of predatory capitalism. The country has too much rot and hypocrisy at its core to be thriving now.
Uncle Joe
(58,389 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)He lied !!
I just knew he couldn't keep a promise.. I just knew it....
I did !!!
Really....
I did....
FailureToCommunicate
(14,019 posts)Bernie pointing out what everyone has seen, as "an attack"
Oh, you were using .
My bad.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)
stopbush This message was self-deleted by its author.
Uncle Joe
(58,389 posts)people would serve themselves best to remember that.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1310860
I agree in part, Hillary is a more polished politician, but Bernie is a superior political leader.
Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #12)
stopbush This message was self-deleted by its author.
Uncle Joe
(58,389 posts)The post and thread that I just presented to you is prima facie evidence of the corporate media conglomerates' motivation in dampening Bernie's message they blacked out coverage of Bernie for most of last year and he's done remarkably well despite their complicity in trying to eliminate or diminish the political revolution.
The answer to the first question of course is conservative and yet.
Bernie Gets It Done: Sanders' Record of Pushing Through Major Reforms Will Surprise You
The problem with this narrative is that it is completely false. Not only has Sanders gotten a lot more things done than Clinton did in her own short legislative career, he's actually one of the most effective members of Congress, passing bills, both big and small, that have reshaped American policy on key issues like poverty, the environment and health care.
(snip)
As if things didn't look bad enough, in 1994 the Republicans swept into power in the House of Representatives, dashing the hopes of many that Congress could do anything progressive whatsoever. But Sanders was not content with tilting at windmills. He didn't want to just take a stand, he wanted to pass legislation that improved the United States of America. He found his vehicle in legislative amendments.
Amendments in the House of Representatives are often seen as secondary vehicles to legislation that individual members sponsor, but they are an important way to move resources and build bipartisan coalitions to change the direction of the law. Despite the fact that the most right-wing Republicans in a generation controlled the House of Representatives between 1994 and 2006, the member who passed the most amendments during that time was not a right-winger like Bob Barr or John Boehner. The amendment king was, instead, Bernie Sanders.
Sanders did something particularly original, which was that he passed amendments that were exclusively progressive, advancing goals such as reducing poverty and helping the environment, and he was able to get bipartisan coalitions of Republicans who wanted to shrink government or hold it accountable and progressives who wanted to use it to empower Americans.
Here are a few examples of the amendments Sanders passed by building unusual but effective coalitions:
Corporate Crime Accountability (February 1995)
Saving Money, for Colleges and Taxpayers (April 1998
Holding IRS Accountable, Protecting Pensions (July 2002)
Expanding Free Health Care (November 2001)
Getting Tough On Child Labor (July 2001)
Increasing Funding for Heating for the Poor (September 2004)
Fighting Corporate Welfare and Protecting Against Nuclear Disasters (June 2005):
Greening the U.S. Government (June 2007)
Protecting Our Troops (October 2007
Restricting the Bailout to Protect U.S. Workers (Feburary 2009)
Helping Veterans' Kids (July 2009
Exposing Corruption in the Military-Industrial Complex (November 2012):
Support for Treating Autism in Military Health Care:
While Sanders was an amendment king who was able to bring bipartisan coalitions together to make serious changes to laws, he also knew how to be a thorn in the side of the establishment until it offered up something in return. Sanders was able to get the first-ever audit of funds given out by the Federal Reserve, which made transparent over $2 trillion of funds handed out by the secretive organization. This was a cause that Republican congressman Ron Paul (TX) had been pursuing for decades, but Sanders was able to get the votes to do it by forging a compromise that required an audit for the bailout period alone.
When the Affordable Care Act was in danger of not having the votes to pass, Sanders used his leverage to win enough funding for free health treatment for 10 million Americans through Community Health Centers. This gutsy moveholding out until the funds were put into the billhas even Republican members of Congress requesting the funds, which have helped millions of Americans who otherwise would not have access.
Another moment came when Sanders, who was then chair of the Veterans committee, worked with Sen. John McCain (R-AZ), to overhaul the Veterans Administration. McCain praised Sanders' work on the bill in an interview with National Journal. Sen. Jack Reed (D-RI) even went so far as to say the bill would never have passed without Sanders' ability to bring the parties to a deal.
(snip)
It's easy for the establishment media and politicians to make the assumption that Bernie Sanders is not an effective lawmaker or executive. He has strong convictions and he stands by them, and we're often told that makes one a gadflysomeone who is out to make a point rather than make an actual change. But with Sanders we have the fusion of strong principles and the ability to forge odd bedfellow coalitions that accomplish historic things, like the audit of the Federal Reserve or the rejuvenation of Burlington that has served as a model for cities around the country. Don't underestimate me, Sanders said at the beginning of the race, words that anyone who knows his political and policy history take to heart.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-gets-it-done-sanders-record-pushing-through-major-reforms-will-surprise-you
There are descriptive paragraphs for each of Bernie's amendments.
trillion
(1,859 posts)MsLeopard
(1,265 posts)Well done!
Dustlawyer
(10,497 posts)Bernie after the amazing year he has had! The MSM still paints him as a far left radical kook. They know that their whole shadow government is threatened by him and his call for Publicly Funded Elections. This would shut off the legal money spigot. No more Republican candidates being interviewed by greedy billionaires!
Bernie is the real deal, he is no lightweight, and I am glad that he has stopped taking shit from them. He called Hillary out on the corrupting influence of all of that money. This is what needed to happen. Hillary is the prime example of what he is fighting against in the first place! She won't release her transcripts, yet she brags about how she will be tougher on Wall Street than Bernie. Trump will do it to her anyway if she wins the Primary.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)they've learned to play the game too well.
They may have had authentic, altruistic goals when they started, but they've played the game so long, the goal posts have changed. They've convinced themselves that since money drives the game, they have to have that money to stay in the game...so all rules pertaining to money and how you get it and what obligations it conveys, are necessary.
Good thread Joe.
Uncle Joe
(58,389 posts)Peace to you.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)She doesn't fool Bernie's supporters one whit with that behavior.
In my view, she is doing it because she knows damn well that millions of people believe Bernie has the better stances and policies. It is classic, as has been said TOO many times, Rovian shit. It makes me ill.
Response to pangaia (Reply #23)
stopbush This message was self-deleted by its author.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)1- You have no idea for whom I will vote. Stop making up shit.
2- Rovian shit... No. NO chance whatsoever.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)Seems you're engaging in a bit of preemptive gloating here. Your utter certainty of her victory is a bit premature.
Response to davidthegnome (Reply #39)
stopbush This message was self-deleted by its author.
davidthegnome
(2,983 posts)I just think it's a bit early to start gloating. I could give you several historical examples, of when what people thought would absolutely happen... did not happen, or vice versa. Politics in this Country are constantly on the move, constantly changing, from tweet to tweet, from soundbite to soundbite, from poll to poll... you get the idea.
I'm not going to say that Clinton absolutely won't win, or that Sanders absolutely will - because it's simply too early to tell. Consider the growth of the Sanders campaign over the last several months... it has been gigantic. Consider the sheer number of individual financial contributions that have been made by simple people like me (over 4 million reached - recently). The delegate count is even. If Clinton gains an enormous lead over Bernie, I might be more inclined to agree with you, but it's still much too early.
I've been through this a few times too - if you are suggesting that having accurately predicted the results in NV suggests that you can (absolutely) accurately pinpoint the results of other primaries, or of the ultimate victor... well, hell, if you can do that, you should immediately go out and buy a whole ton of lottery tickets.
You've got a right to your own opinion - but not to your own facts, which is what makes this premature... and gloating.
Just calling it like I see it, too.
840high
(17,196 posts)brought on herself.
cali
(114,904 posts)a corrupt batshit crazy lying war mongering repuke. Not that it will matter if I vote for her or not. She is a sure bet to lose us the election.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Depaysement
(1,835 posts)That pretty much says it all.
Nothing sums up Hillary better than that.
Response to Depaysement (Reply #59)
stopbush This message was self-deleted by its author.
Depaysement
(1,835 posts)HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)It's not fun to have your message stolen, but it is a regular part of the play
Uncle Joe
(58,389 posts)just as stealing a message is a regular part of political play, so is calling attention to this and it should be done.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)And I would have no problem with pointing out in the future that she has turned her back on the programs she steals.
cali
(114,904 posts)livetohike
(22,156 posts)"press conference" a generous description.
Tad must have told him to get out there and do something. So he repeats his stump speech.
Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)Are we back in grade school?
Uncle Joe
(58,389 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)assuming one has become an adult.
polly7
(20,582 posts)trillion
(1,859 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)last night on another site. People know she is doing it.
amborin
(16,631 posts)It was like she ran though her super pac, only said she was going to stop them.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)Bernie was still and Independent when Hillary was addressing this issue on behalf of Democrats.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/12/11/hillary-clinton-warren-buffett-appear-together-to-denounce-income-gap.html
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/206341-clinton-presses-business-on-income-inequality
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2007/dec/14/PFA_incomegap/
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/14/us/politics/hillary-clinton-offers-her-vision-of-a-fairness-economy-to-close-the-income-gap.html?_r=0
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/hillary-clinton-goes-populist
http://www.theroot.com/articles/news/2015/06/hillary_clinton_pledges_to_close_income_gap_in_nyc_speech.html
cali
(114,904 posts)Everyone knows he's been addressing these issues while hill was still on Wal-Mart's board. And everyone can see she been parroting him.
They don't come any phonier than Hillary Rodham Clinton.
trillion
(1,859 posts)trillion
(1,859 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Where oh where may those transcripts be, where oh where can they be..........
K&R for my street fighting man.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)I want the real progressive not one who sounds progressive for the length of a campaign speech.
LibDemAlways
(15,139 posts)down for the count rather than the candidate who swamped Hillary in NH, came within .2 percent in the Iowa caucuses and a couple of percentage points in Nevada -- and judging by what I've read, those Nevada results may well be suspect.
Good for Bernie, though. Keep the pressure on her to release the transcripts, and bring up at every opportunity those millions she's collected from Wall Street. Bernie clearly has her number.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)The official tally showed a virtual tie.
What would the tally be if it were a primary, where the state, county and local clerks' offices are involved (NOT calling Harry Reid or Elizabeth Wasserman-Schultz liars or friends of Hillary)?
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,136 posts)Looks like a success to me.
Uncle Joe
(58,389 posts)Bernie Sanders: 'I am running in this election to win'
Erin Kelly, USA TODAY 7:20 a.m. EDT April 30, 2015
WASHINGTON Bernie Sanders knows he faces an uphill battle against Hillary Clinton for the Democratic presidential nomination, but he believes he can win by reaching out to overworked, underpaid Americans anxious for change.
"I've been traveling around the country for the last year trying to ascertain whether there really is grass-roots support in terms of people standing up and being prepared to take on the billionaire class," the independent senator said in an interview Wednesday with USA TODAY as he prepared to officially announce his candidacy Thursday. "I believe that there is."
The fiery, 73-year-old Vermonter said Americans are disenchanted with "the greed of corporate America" and with a political establishment that doesn't talk about the issues that affect their lives.
"I believe they want a fundamental change so that government works for ordinary Americans and not just billionaires," said Sanders, who is known for his tousled white hair and Brooklyn accent.
(snip)
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/04/29/bernie-sanders-interview-democratic-presidential-race/26576639/
Considering Hillary's constant shifts on the issues, moving to the left would have highly limited value should she be elected.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Hillary is copying his message. It is so obvious I figured it out before Bernie even said anything.
So did this guy.
:large
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Now Clinton.