2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumpdsimdars
(6,007 posts)Let the people know who they're voting for. Lot of misinformation out there.
Juicy_Bellows
(2,427 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Bubzer
(4,211 posts)Cali_Democrat
(30,439 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)at 202-Big-Liar he can help you parse it.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)202-Big-Liar
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)Facts are facts. There are a lot of ostriches around here these days.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)There isn't any doubt about that photo.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)That will help a lot.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)AND, if the Hillary campaign is willing to try and attack Bernie for his actions when he was 23,
then it's more than fair to go after Hillary for her actions when she was 18.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)Bubzer
(4,211 posts)cascadiance
(19,537 posts)And was elected president of the College Republicans group there too, not just a bystander in that group.
But she's been so communicative about why she was doing those political activities these days...
So much more than Thom Hartman was when he was recruited by his dad to campaign for Goldwater then.... But when he was in college away from his family he chose more to be a part of SDS than the Republican Party there.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)So a couple of years after leaving for college, she had left the party of her parents, and was an active leader in her campus Democratic party. But you just keep on beating that Goldwater thing into the ground.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)She only "left the Republican Party for good" after seeing what the Nixon people were doing to the Rockefeller people at the &68 Republican National Convention.
Lucinda
(31,170 posts)in 1968.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make, but mine still stands. She made the change. And has been solidly supporting the Dem party for over 40 years.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)It looks like she was trying to "find herself", as they said back then.
She supported McCarthy and Nelson Rockefeller in the same year. OK, Rockefeller wasn't so bad, and if I had been of voting age then, I probably would have voted for his brother, Winthrop, for governor of Arkansas.
She worked for McGovern's campaign in 1972, I'll give her that. But 5 years later, she was a corporate lawyer working for a high-power corporate law firm, the "legal arm of the powerful" in Arkansas. One of her first cases was defending electric power companies against residential ratepayers. She helped to overturn a ballot initiative that could have eventually helped utility customers throughout the state, including my family.
Now granted, in the '70s, she was appointed by President Carter to serve on a board that was designed to support women and children. But just a year or so after her victory over residential ratepayers, she became a partner in the law firm, a law firm that specialized in defending corporations against, well, little people.
In her early days with the firm, she used her maiden name. You might think, OK, she was a liberated woman. But at that same time, her husband, who was a rising star in the Arkansas Democratic Party, had just become the state's attorney general. You know, the guy who is supposed to represent the citizens of the state, aka, the public, aka the little people. If Hillary had adopted Bill's last name then, more people might have made the connection between the lawyer who represented the interests of corporations over the people, and the man who was supposed to be representing the interests of the people in the state government.
Hillary left the women-and-children board in 1979 or thereabouts, when her husband had become governor, and she had just recently become a partner in the corporate law firm. A year later, her husband lost his re-election bid to a wacky Republican named Frank White. Two years later, the Clintons were back in the governor's mansion, but, as the Arkansas Gazette (then the state's largest liberal newspaper) noted at the time,they were decidedly more conservative than they had been in the '70s.
Throughout that decade, and into the early '90s, Hillary remained a partner in the law firm. During much of that time, she also served on an educational committee that brought a lot of changes to the state's education system-- essentially robbing Peter (like my school district) to pay Paul. She also introduced a form of No Child Left Behind that really ticked off my former high school history teacher to no end, a die-hard yellow dog Arkansas Democrat. "Hillary's meddling", he called it, as the new rules really cramped his teaching style of using archive materials and on-the-scene accounts of historical events, rather than relying solely on a textbook and having standardized, varnished tests.
In the late '80s, when Hillary was both a partner in her "legal arm of the powerful" law firm and a Wal-Mart board member, I was both a student at the University of Arkansas and a temporary worker at a Bentonville Wal-Mart warehouse. I could tell there was quite a bit of friction between full-time workers and management, just by looking at the notices in the break room. There was a movement to unionize workers there, and Hillary, according to some accounts, didn't express any support for the movement.
Also at that time, nearly all of my professors were liberal, and several had connections with the state's political circiles. When Hillary was on the Wal-Mart board, some of those professors said that serving on the Wal-Mart board was "the best of both worlds. Hillary gets to rub shoulders with America's Richest Man, and Sam Walton has a nearly direct line with the Governor."
I would also like to mention that in 1992, Hillary helped to secure funding for her husband's presidential campaign from at least three of the state's richest Republicans-- Sam Walton, Don Tyson, and Jackson Stephens.
So no, I do not buy the story that she has been a Democrat for 40 years. More like a "Democrat".
merrily
(45,251 posts)Canvassed for Nixon at 13, Goldwater Girl at 17, supported Rockefeller at 21, by her own words.
Claims to have switched after the Republican Convention of 1968, but I personally don't believe she switched until she met Bill in Law School.
Anyway, by 17, I certainly would have known not to back Goldwater.
bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Lizz612
(2,066 posts)At yourself as a 17 year old, do you think "Man, I was so damn smart back then, so glad I haven't changed at all"?
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)Higher responsibility requires a higher bar of entry. Particularly if we want to avoid another bush.
Good judgment is a must. Hillary isn't exactly winning high marks in the judgment category. In fact, part of why she's being held accountable for what she did during her late teen years, is that her judgment seemingly hasn't improved.
She's still reactive instead of proactive... she wasn't on the right side of history in numerous areas, including issues with welfare (affecting pretty much everyone who received those subsidies), the LGBT community and the Iraq war.
She advocated for the TPP 45 times, and called it the golden standard. Her foundation has received funds from foreign companies in exchange for services rendered as SoS, which is now under investigation.
She opted to host a server at her home to host sensitive work e-mails.
After months of declining to take a position on the Keystone XL pipeline, after it was incredibly obvious that it was unpopular, she FINALY took a position against the project.
There are so many things that point to really terrible judgment. Being a Goldwater Girl just shows how long that bad judgment has been in place.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)This is fucking ridiculous. She was 18. Like a lot of people as she became an adult, she re-evaluated her world view. That is a GOOD THING.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)I give Elizabeth high marks. She learned as she grew... enough so that she didn't repeat old mistakes. I cannot say the same for Hillary.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... from earlier being a Democrat.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Maybe you can find a nice Newsmax "article" to refernce.
This place has gone fucking nuts....
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)I've had no previous experience with newsmax, and should have researched the source first. I'll own up to that... and you're absolutely right to point out my momentary lapse in judgment... just as I'm point out Hillary's consistent lack of good judgment. Pointing to her teen years merely illustrates how far back her bad judgment stems from... and how little that judgment has improved.
And, as I've said before, camp Hillary is attacking Bernie's younger years, so you'd be woefully mistaken if you fail to accept that what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)well done
dchill
(38,537 posts)Oh yeah, that's not sleazy at ALL. And she did this SHIT knowing she was going to run for President. No judgment, no ethics, no class. Just unmitigated greed.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)Let alone the next.
Dustlawyer
(10,497 posts)while Hillary tried to follow which way the wind was blowing to gain an advantage. One is for the people and the other is for herself!
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)Hillary and her supporters, on the other hand, seem to believe in equality for those who believe in Hillary.
Point of example... look to any instance of marginalization of liberals and progressives at the hands of her surrogates.
Dem2
(8,168 posts)...at the same time Hillary was in the White House as a Democrat.
This is a shitty line of attack.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)Dem2
(8,168 posts)I laughed and thought "yes, of course you dismiss one and blame the other". Bias is bias - I have no use for it.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)instead of simply refuting the OP. I've come to expect no actual defense of Hillary from her supporters other than mindless blather that has neither substance, nor reasonability. Instead, distract and attack is the order of the day.
In your case, you're claiming the victim card... claiming this to be an attack, rather than a cite of a rather long history of poor judgment... a major problem for Hillary.
I will not accept calling out a candidates weaknesses as being "an attack".
dchill
(38,537 posts)Abe Lincoln into the argument stew. Hell, he was a Republican, too! Point being, we're talking about ethically challenged individuals running for president.
Jitter65
(3,089 posts)To add a little perspective...Bernie went off to live in Vermont and was out of sight in civil rights for about 30 years.
Hillary did this:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/05/us/politics/05clinton.html?_r=1
Just some historical perspective about Hillary as a "Goldwater Girl"
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)long after her Goldwater days. In fact, it seems she did a lot of work for republicans.
That certainly does add perspective to why she seems more conservative than progressive.
Though credit where credit is due...she does seem to come to a more liberal perspective near the end. It doesn't seem like she was actionable on any of her liberal perspective though.
Bernie, on the other hand, was actionable on his views really early in life.
Bernie's activities with Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) seem more...well, active.
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2016/02/bernie-sanders-core-university-chicago
Or what about here when Bernie was in his early teen years.
He promised to raise scholarship money for kids in Korea orphaned during the recent war.
http://time.com/3896500/bernie-sanders-vermont-campaign-radical/
I don't see much of anything like that from Hillary in the early years. But thank you for prompting me to look up Bernie's early life. Now I know that Selma wasn't the totality of his activity.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)... and worked for a nonprofit helping register people for Food Stamps...
So not only did he legislate such programs, but he's worked in the trenches of them too.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/bernie-sanders-vermont-119927
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)madaboutharry
(40,220 posts)Your photo is misleading.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)She certainly does look old for her age. (Please note this comment is in reference to the photo, it's NOT an ageist slam on her current appearance.)
Jenny_92808
(1,342 posts)WHAT'S TRUE: Hillary Clinton supported Goldwater in the 1964 presidential election; Goldwater voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
HRC born 10/26/1947
Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)She was 17, and attacking her on that looks too much like a cheap shot.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)Turnabout is fair play.
oasis
(49,408 posts)He didnt see Bernie Sanders because Bernie Sanders was doing fair and open housing in Chicago thats why he didnt see him. No matter how good your eyesight is if you are standing in Alabama, you cant see people in Chicago.
It's not like they're omniscient.
http://vetsforbernie.org/2016/02/yes-bernie-sanders-protested-for-civil-rights/
Vinca
(50,304 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)until it was for himself. Just on that point alone he obviously wasn't all that concerned with actually changing anything.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)Bernie's activities with Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) seem more...well, active.
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2016/02/bernie-sanders-core-university-chicago
Or what about here when Bernie was in his early teen years.
He promised to raise scholarship money for kids in Korea orphaned during the recent war.
http://time.com/3896500/bernie-sanders-vermont-campaign-radical/
A broader scope:
http://vetsforbernie.org/2016/02/yes-bernie-sanders-protested-for-civil-rights/
The facts quite clearly run counter to your claim.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Bubzer
(4,211 posts)RoccoR5955
(12,471 posts)That Hillary had to "evolve." She continues to evolve every time she parrots Bernie's platform planks.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)And you all want to bitch about a teenage Hillary???
Is that ALL YOU GOT?
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)How "active" was Warren as a Republican, other than being registered as one. Haven't seen her do a lot in the realm of politics in that time of her life. It seems like other priorities were higher then.
Priorities for Warren as a Republican didn't include being elected as president of college Republicans when she was in College like Hillary was.
Nor is there much documentation of her campaigning heavily for Republicans then, like Hillary did for Goldwater and Rockefeller, or for that matter Michele Bachman, who as a Democrat campaigned heavily in her college years for "born again" Jimmy Carter.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)As far as what I've got? I think that's more than sufficient.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)nolabels
(13,133 posts)Thanks