So we've gone from Bernie Bros chanting 'SPEAK ENGLISH OR DIE!'

[frylock]

Last edited Sun Feb 21, 2016, 07:18 PM - Edit history (1)

To Delores Huerta not getting the level of respect she deserved when trying to address the crowd. And all these accusations are based upon one person -- ONE! shouting out for a neutral translator. So before having any understanding of what really transpired, Ms. Huerta just couldn't wait to post on Twitter and imply that Sanders supporters were no different than the xenophobic bigots who support Donald Trump. Someone here, a Sanders supporter, posted that they had almost wished that the story were true, because the alternative was that a respected activist was engaging in a campaign of slandering her chosen candidate's supporters. And I get that sentiment. When I first watched the video, I sat there in anticipation of hearing the chant and braced myself for that punch to the gut. But there was nothing there. Nada. Now people like myself are the assholes for expecting a formal retraction or clarification of that tweet, and maybe, just maybe, an apology for the misunderstanding. This because she's a Civil Rights ICON, and because of that, her words or motives shall not be questioned. Meanwhile, not only do these same people refuse to give ANY respect to Sanders for his contributions to the Civil Rights movement, they downright DENIGRATE his participation, if they even acknowledge it at all. Hell, some even attempt to steal his valor (see cowardly shitbag Capehart, Jonathan).

Independents are going to win or lose this election for you. THEY call the shots, not the 30% of currently registered Democrats (good luck getting 100% of them to vote for Hillary.). We are watching this and saying HELL NO! We have no allegiance to your broken party. We are not going to be shamed or browbeaten into voting for your severely flawed candidate. We are not going to sit quietly and watch the Clinton Machine continue with their smears. You can continue to push us aside and look down your noses at us, but you do so at your own peril. To summarize: fuck this shit.

Kirk out.

[Hoyt]

1. I'll stick with the Democrats who made a difference when it counted and deserve respect.

[frylock]

2. Because it has to be one or the other.

Binary thinking is a hallmark of the conservative mindset.

[merrily]

28. +1

[JackRiddler]

43. I'd call it out and out authoritarian.

You did something great once, therefore your version of 40 years later must have my obedience! Otherwise it's attacking what you were about when you did the great thing 40 years ago! You have total privilege to abuse, go for it!

Why doesn't Harry Belafonte get the same regard?

[SkyIsGrey]

66. Authoritarianism and argument to tradition

Description: Using historical preferences of the people (tradition), either in general or as specific as the historical preferences of a single individual, as evidence that the historical preference is correct. Traditions are often passed from generation to generation with no other explanation besides, “this is the way it has always been done”—which is not a reason, it is an absence of a reason.

Logical Form:

We have been doing X for generations.
Therefore, we should keep doing X.

Our ancestors thought X was right.
Therefore, X is right.
Example #1:

Dave: For five generations, the men in our family went to Stanford and became doctors, while the women got married and raised children. Therefore, it is my duty to become a doctor.
Kaitlin: Do you want to become a doctor?
Dave: It doesn’t matter -- it is our family tradition. Who am I to break it?

http://www.logicallyfallacious.com/index.php/logical-fallacies/43-appeal-to-tradition

[JackRiddler]

93. Authoritarianism can also be built in less than a generation.

In this case, it's turning old worthy fighters into absolutist totems quasi overnight. How dare you question Huerta when she does something completely odious, you are attacking the laborers she fought for decades ago!

[passiveporcupine]

123. I was thinking about this yesterday

Most people have always liked the curmudgeon Bernie, for his honesty and stamina.

Until he ran against Hillary. Suddenly he was the "enemy" (especially when his numbers started to go up) and his supporters were deserters of the Democratic party. Why? Because he is a challenge to Hillary. No other reason. They would still like him today if he'd never entered the race. They know he is honorable and has integrity and has worked hard for people his whole career...all the things they wish their candidate was. She has strength and some experience, and has worked hard for women and children...but has not shown good judgement in many areas, one of which is campaigning. He has always shown good judgement and decency.

So...they now have to create reasons for NOT liking him, and they use cognitive dissonance to come up with anything they can (kitchen sink). It's why they grasp at ridiculous things and twist and inflate them to national disasters. And Bernie's not a Democrat...as if that label alone is enough to hate him.

And of course we are NOT democrats any more, so it's OK to attack us too, with any smear they can create.

So, are we deserters of the Democratic party? No...it deserted us a long time ago, that train left the station and now it's running at full speed to the right.

[tblue37]

78. Why don't Bernie's good deeds of the past win him similar respect, then, instead of insults? nt

Last edited Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:53 PM - Edit history (1)

[JackRiddler]

94. It wins him a lot of respect.

Now if only his campaign and the movements supporting it can overcome the Clintonian and corporate media noise machines!

Not that he'd deserve the special privilege of being followed if he did something outrageous, just because of past achievements. That's the point. You can make mistakes and you shouldn't be only as good as your last action, but that doesn't mean we should follow you when you make mistakes or do outrageous things, not even for a minute. It would be on Huerta to apologize and make amends for her outrageous behavior.

[tblue37]

99. My point is that the same people who insist that past deeds of those who support Hillary (and of the

Clintons themeselves) should forestall any criticism today seem to feel much less deferential toward Bernie's long history of doing the right thing, with no concern for his own benefit.

If we can't criticize them because they did good things in the past, why do they get to swiftboat his past or to dismiss his good deeds as being old news and therefore irrelevant today?

[JackRiddler]

108. Totally agreed!

[artislife]

57. Because it is the one action in your life and you are a hero mentality

Like all military personnel are heroes because they signed up. Who cares if they stripped a prisoner naked and took selfies.

Like all police are heroes because they are protecting and serving. Except when they kill countless people mistaking a phone for a gun...or when there is a traffic violation or...

That is crap.

I know Delores Huerta has made a life out of good deeds, real movement but she is relying on h to bring it on home. A blind allegiance to a woman who has shown herself to not be worthy of such allegiance. She gives us scraps, she gives it to a few. Not enough anymore.

Good people can become soft. They can sell out. They can lie. They can be bamboozled.

Maybe the old guard of the Latino community don't want to really bring in new blood because they will lose their meal ticket. They are boomers, too. There is a real generational gap. What has really improved for us? Has it improved quick enough. Are we willing to get things incrementally?

Latinas get 55 cents to the white male dollar. That is the lowest. And h thinks 15 is too much, lets settle on 12. Well, who is that going to affect? Not the daughters of the powerful allies she has surrounded herself with.

The more I know, the more I loathe.

[840high]

60. .^that

[green917]

63. exactly!

[platitudipus]

74. +1 I think it's about time for Bernie to take off the gloves and start slinging some truths.

Hillary is using Bernie's promise to run a clean campaign against him. Would it be considered a negative campaign
if Bernie starts pointing out Hillary's 'multi-facets' on issues?

[840high]

58. +2

[cui bono]

10. That would be Bernie. All the way. n/t

[JDPriestly]

22. According to Google, Dolores Huerta is not from Nevada. She is from New Mexico.

Now that could be wrong. But here you go:

https://www.google.com/#q=where+does+dolores+huerta+live+now

And some Bernie supporters were not allowed to speak to a caucus in Nevada because they were from California.

The Hillary supporters do not play fair and they are dividing the Democratic Party.

[bvar22]

133. Dividing the Democratic Party?

Hillary is destroying what is left of the Democratic Party,
and IF it is Republican Lite....Good riddance.
We will have to rebuild it from scratch, using the principles of FDR and LBJ...and Bernie Sanders.
Hillary has NO CHANCE if the GE.

[JDPriestly]

135. Yes.

[merrily]

30. I'll stick with those who made a difference AND didn't lie or use dirty tricks, like Bernie.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/02/21/1488535/-Dolores-Huerta-did-the-same-thing-to-Obama-in-2008

[BlueMTexpat]

55. +1! eom

[basselope]

69. Agreed.. that's why I couldn't vote for Clinton.

No real democrat could vote for the Iraq war.

[leftofcool]

70. Me too.

[rhett o rick]

100. Oh please. You will stick with those in power, the rich and super rich. When it counted Hillary

bowed down before Bush and said how can I help. That's when it counted and she betrayed her Party. Hillary and Bill have amassed over a hundred million dollars from grateful corporations and billionaires. How can you over look that? They aren't for the People. They are for the rich and super rich. So I ask you, do you greatly admire the super-rich? Think that they might throw the 50,000,000 people in poverty a little "cake"?

"The choice is stark, keep living under corporate rule under Hillary and watch things get worse, or go with Bernie and fight TPTB to regain our Representative Democracy!"

[Odin2005]

104. Meanwile we Millennials grew up being told the dangers of peer pressure.

If a "respected, revered figure" tells you to jump off a cliff would you do so?

[Hoyt]

105. Well at least one millennial got the message wrong.

[Matariki]

3. Word, Frylock

This is some of the most disgusting tactics I've ever seen from a Democratic candidate's campaign. Did Obama pull this shit? No. Kerry? No. Gore? Nope.

I'm seriously disgusted. I've gone from an enthusiastic 'we have three good candidates' to actively disliking Clinton.

[mariawr]

31. Hillary just gotta drive her negatives up up up....so much

....that no Sanders supporter will even want to pull the lever, should she win the nom, for her in the GE.

[casperthegm]

49. Be careful

I agree with you but that kind of talk got one of my posts removed. Remember, around here it's "support the democrats no matter what." Even if it's one who flip flops, has a poor record, is being investigated by the FBI, and employs smear tactics. There's no room for consideration for anyone else, even if it's an independent with democratic ideals.

[appalachiablue]

50. Obama, Kerry and Gore didn't engage in devious manoeuvers you're correct.

It's despicable, highly dangerous for our country and producing a lot of contempt. Not a desirable atmosphere especially in a fractured society with so many problems and before a critical election.

[JackRiddler]

95. Hell, Kerry and Gore...

both of whom were very problematic politically for me, nevertheless did not engage in devious maneuvers in their campaigns. Sadly, not only that: they were totally incompetent in responding to the smear campaigns deployed against them. Kerry especially: he should have never lost (Gore obviously didn't lose, he just crapped out when it was stolen from him). I suppose it says something good about their characters, noble but weak. Not that they weren't loyal imperialists, which is a problem. Kerry also voted for the war of aggression...

[appalachiablue]

98. Noble also works with strong, there have been some figures with those qualities

through history. And in recent times, weak, ineffective and anti-noble is W. Kerry and Gore are titans comparatively.

[TDale313]

4. This is becoming a pattern from the Clinton Campaign.

Incredibly well-respected surrogates sent out to attack Bernie or his supporters, get some pushback, accuse Sanders and his supporters of racism and/or sexism for pointing out the smear isn't true. It's sickening and cynical and divisive. I expect this stuff from Repugs- this divisiveness from the Clinton camp is heartbreaking.

[reformist2]

7. And they do it right before the election for maximum impact, and before everyone finds out its a lie

[RufusTFirefly]

13. That's a diabolical but incredibly effective tactic in a number of contexts

Lie us into war, for example, and then, once the truth comes out, insist that we can't just "cut and run."

Gain the nomination through all sorts of despicable tactics and then once you have it, smugly answer those who question your methods with, "Whaddya gonna do? Vote for the Republicans?"

I for one am not going to become a case study in cognitive dissonance or a poster child for cheap opportunism, miraculously "evolving" at the expense of my principles.

[mariawr]

33. If the Clinton camp continues this mess, and Sanders does not

Win the nom, he may as well go independent (thanks DLC) and continue with the support he has amassed for the GE.

You gotta make a stand somewhere.

[chwaliszewski]

114. True Dat!

I'd be all down for that. Bernie is not getting a fair shake because of all the super delegates in Hillary's purse. If he doesn't run as an Independent, I'll write his name in. Either way, Bernie is getting my vote on election day.

[840high]

129. My vote, too.

[MelissaB]

11. ^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^

I couldn't agree more. The scorched earth strategy will bite them in the ass.

[freebrew]

16. I know, right?

first it was Rahm with his remarks about the left.
That was AFTER PBO used the left to get elected.
Then we got thrown under the bus. WAY UNDER.

We get Social Security cuts from a fucking Democrat?
And now he's pushing TPP.

So, screw the left, eh?

We'll see how that philosophy works out for the DLC.

As for the left of us, w/o Bernie we're screwed anyway.

[appalachiablue]

56. Noticed your sig line, nice. Met him briefly in 1970 or 71 at a college event.

K & R Appreciate your well expressed thoughts Frylock.

[loyalsister]

12. Victimology tactic

I wonder if it's based on the support Bill Clinton got when the women he harrassed were discredited as being out to get him? Poor Bill Clinton. I remember that the Dems pickets up seats after the impeachment.

[INdemo]

26. This is the Karl Rove way and as long as there are

Right Wing advisers working in the Clinton campaign it will get worse....When David Brock can go on national TV and get away with calling Bernie Sanders a Communist by agreeing with George Will (WPo)then I guess that Hillary supporters thinks it ok to go deep in the gutter and use any name they want to..

I wish Oh how Wish Bernie Sanders would have run as an Independent...If he would have known his following would have this huge if he looks back and wishes the same thing...

Even George Stephenaopelosi has referred to Bernie as all sorts of socialist names including Communist
So apparently if the Corporate News gets away with the Hillary Campaign thinks they can without any criticism.

[mariawr]

34. He still can if we ask him to continue as an Indy. We have to ask him tho. nt

[tblue37]

80. He won't split the Dem vote. Bernie would never play spoiler. nt

[Autumn]

5. And there it is.

[reformist2]

6. And this is exactly why we need to warn voters of the dirty tricks designed to play with their emoti

We need to immunize them against these last-minute, outrageous lies that could easily sway 10-20% of a target audience, thus potentially changing the outcome. The Clintons use this tactic all the time, and they'll continue using it until it doesn't work anymore.

[farleftlib]

8. + 1

Good luck is right.

[FlatBaroque]

9. Huerta did the same shit to Obama in 2008, in addition to receiving $100K from

Clinton Money Laundering Foundation.

[JDPriestly]

23. According to Google, Dolores Huerta is from New Mexico, not Nevada.

This could be wrong, but:

https://www.google.com/#q=where+does+dolores+huerta+live+now

[bettyellen]

24. and Susan Sarandon is from NYC. And neither tried to campaign during the caucus.

[stupidicus]

14. they differ little from their rightwing cousins

in the ways and means of rhetorical battle, which makes offensive offense of this kind their fav, goto defense in cases like this.

They make victims of the victimizers with the best of them

[redruddyred]

15. i agree re:independents

and i'm not saying this because i want it to be true: i'm saying it because i talk to people and i know.

[ybbor]

17. This is exactly how I feel

It's like you were reading my mind.

I especially think you hit it with your closing remarks.

Fuck this shit!

[Nitram]

18. Is everyone here assuming Clinton conspired with Huerta? nt

[frylock]

19. Where are you getting that?

[Nitram]

102. It sounds like everyone here assumes Clinton conspired with Huerta to damage the Sanders campaign.

I'm asking if that's a correct assumption or am I wrong? What are you getting at?

[frylock]

103. That I'm not seeing it.

[Nitram]

117. Frylock, if Clinton and her supporters are not being blamed for Huerta's remarks...

...what do you call this:

#74 "Hillary is using Bernie's promise to run a clean campaign against him. Would it be considered a negative campaign
if Bernie starts pointing out Hillary's 'multi-facets' on issues?"

#3 "This is some of the most disgusting tactics I've ever seen from a Democratic candidate's campaign."

#31 "Hillary just gotta drive her negatives up up up....so much"

#4 " This is becoming a pattern from the Clinton Campaign. Incredibly well-respected surrogates sent out to attack Bernie or his supporters..."

#33 "If the Clinton camp continues this mess..."

#26 "This is the Karl Rove way and as long as there are Right Wing advisers working in the Clinton campaign it will get worse...."

#9 "Huerta did the same shit to Obama in 2008, in addition to receiving $100K from Clinton Money Laundering Foundation."

#14 " they differ little from their rightwing cousins in the ways and means of rhetorical battle, which makes offensive offense of this kind their fav, goto defense in cases like this. "

#48 "She was offering to translate, not address the crowd and tactics such as this are the MO of the Clinton campaign."

#51 "It's disgusting. Right down there with Lee Atwater and Karl Rove."

#52 "HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! HRC = By ANY Means Necessary. "

[snagglepuss]

20. Nailed it.

[giftedgirl77]

21. Speak English or Die???

I heard that she stated supporters were saying English Only but it turns out that the moderator said it. Somehow that evolved into nobody even said it & Ms Huerta is a liar to this statement??? Has all rational thinking been obliterated?

[Matt_in_STL]

36. She said Bernie supporters were chanting it

And that she knew it was the Bernie supporters because of which side of the room they were on. There was no chanting from any side.

[giftedgirl77]

39. Do you have a link to that assertion?

Bc all I've seen is someone supposedly yelled English Only & it turns out the moderator said it. Now where did the English or Die bullshit come from?

[Matt_in_STL]

42. English or die is a bit of hyperbole

But her own Twitter account stated that Bernie supporters chanted "English only", which the video is clear did not happen.

https://mobile.twitter.com/DoloresHuerta/status/701184235315400705

[giftedgirl77]

44. That's what I'm saying.

The English Only was bad enough v. English or Die which is very extreme & has a whole other connotation. However, from what I'm gathering is after both sides arguing over a translator not coming from either side to the moderator finally saying we'll do it in English only. Granted that doesn't excuse saying Sanders supporters said it & out of context as it was.

[Thor_MN]

59. A bit of hyperbole? A bit? Really?

"Speak English or Die" is a criminal threat that could result in prison or jail time. "Speak English" is offensive but within 1st Amendment territory. The difference between is more than "a bit of hyperbole."

The video makes clear that someone very close to the camera was shouting "Neutral". It does not clearly record everything that was said in the room.

[Matt_in_STL]

62. It would have picked up "chanting"

There was no chanting.

[Thor_MN]

71. It would have picked it up if it was the whole crowd.

Cell phone mics are fine for maybe 10 feet or amplified sound. Beyond that, they pretty much suck.

And you ignored the fact that your "bit of hyperbole" comment was a lame excuse for the OP's false statement.

[Matt_in_STL]

76. Oh, I apologize I didn't quantify the amount of hyperbole

It was 73 hyperboles worth. I'm not very good on the hyperbole conversion rate these days.

[markpkessinger]

77. Oh please!

Nobody who has followed this story would have interpreted the "Speak English or Die" idiom as being anything other than hyperbole. "Do ____ or die" is a common idiom and everybody knows it. Spare us the "criminal threat" nonsense!

[Thor_MN]

83. "Do this or I will kill you" is a criminal threat.

If a jury believes your intent is to instill fear, see you in 1 to 5 years. "Do this" is free speech. Pretty easy to understand the distinction and not get confused between the two.

I believe that I am included in every one, so your statement "Nobody who has followed this story would have interpreted the "Speak English or Die" idiom as being anything other than hyperbole" is patently false. (Hint: making absolute statements is generally a loser of an argument.)

[markpkessinger]

128. Sorry, not buying the faux outrage n/t

[Thor_MN]

138. Sorry, not buying the bullshit of the OP.

The title of the OP makes a false claim.

Tacking a "JK" to it is lame.

[Thor_MN]

142. On and BTW, no outrage, just stating facts, as oposed to the OP.

[PeterGM]

25. My take as a European

Firstly I'm new to DU, and just got involved because I'm planning to fly over and volunteer for Sanders if he wins the nomination.

With that out of the way, I really do not see any reason for Sanders supporters to vote for Clinton if Trump or Rubio become the republican nominee (I do if it's Ted Cruz, please save us from this being).
Yes, Clinton has better financial policies that will reduce the deficit instead of exploding it and with Rubio you will get some nutjob supreme court justice, which isn't cool (I doubt Trump will nominate anyone insane... he's even stood up for planned parenthood in a republican debate...) .
But on Foreign policy, global economic stability and green energy promotion she is not one step out of sync with those two...
So if you can live with the downsides, a much more powerful message would be a vote for Jill Stein, if it could be promoted in a meaningful way (if she could get 5%+).

A ton of news papers here in Europe have already started with warning bells of more war if Clinton wins.

On a side note, As a European I don't see any path to victory for Clinton against Trump. You guys are new to this nationalist populist phenomenon, but we've seen it grow for decades here in Europe, and I can only tell you that I'm dumb struck by how quickly Trump has normalized the movement in your Media... If this man runs against Clinton (whom has just as high unfavorable as he does) then Trump will win in a landslide, similar to Obama v. McCain

[jillan]

32. Welcome Peter! And thanks for your input. That was very interesting to learn what they are saying

in Europe about this election.

[PeterGM]

35. cheers :)

[JackRiddler]

46. There's a big difference in the nationalist populism...

which is not new here, by the way, Trump is just doing better than anyone before.

Trump's alienated 30 percent of non-white population to be 100% against him. Mexicans, Latinos, Blacks, Muslims are never going to vote for him.

Do you think he can win the white people by 2:1? While simultaneously being hated for so many other reasons?

Luckily it's nowhere near that bad.

[PeterGM]

54. I'm just warning you.

You're underestimating him... And the scariest part about US politics is that your voter turnout is so low...
Trump "just" has to tap into that 40-50% of Americans that don't participate to win...
I'm maybe over simplifying it this way...
Clinton has no appeal to independents, Trump is fairly attractive to independents. Clinton will not turn out a large number to vote, she does not operate that way (neither did Bill), she wins through depressing voter turnout for the opponent and Trump is (this far) very strong at increasing turnout. Lastly, Republicans aren't gonna jump party lines to a Clinton (that probably just increases their turnout) just like Trump will increase democratic turnout, but Trump will get a large part of the Blue collar democrats from Clinton...
Remember that these current national polls reflect 3 things:
1) Trump has been riding the wave of negative press all the way, just so he didn't have to really spend money himself.
2) Sanders is playing paddy cakes and only the eventual poop gets slinged at Clinton from the GOP camp... They're much to busy fighting themselves, so Clinton is getting a free pass atm.
3) What will happen to her numbers once the Trump attack machine focuses on her?

[840high]

67. imo - Trump will destroy her.

[JackRiddler]

72. I see Trump as much weaker - but

certainly it is the case that Clinton is the far weaker candidate than Sanders. Now if only enough of the conventional "my party right or wrong!" Democrats figure it out in time. (If there was some way to go straight to the general election with all the remaining candidates, does anyone doubt that Sanders would get the biggest total in the first round and crush anyone in a run-off?)

In any case, is Trump a danger to win? Sure, it's possible, just not nearly as straightforward as you think. (Would you say Le Pen is a favorite in France, by the way? Only in the first round...)

[SkyIsGrey]

79. "3) What will happen to her numbers once the Trump attack machine focuses on her?"

Giving that Clinton is having trouble going up against Sanders (Who is playing nice at the moment), and Clinton's arrogance, Clinton will be eviscerated by Trump.

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. Actually no you are not

I give Trump pretty good odds of winning the presidency.

I "went on a limb" and stated that he would get the nomination back in August at the paper I run because... well as a European this will resonate to you. This is not unlike the 1930s, and there are elements of Mussolini and Hitler in his appeal with a dash of Franco.

Now I give him pretty good odds (and that scares the living daylights out of me) of becoming the next President of the United States.

[840high]

65. Welcome to DU.

[PeterGM]

110. thank you :)

[artislife]

68. Yup. nt

[davidpdx]

109. Welcome to DU

It is interesting to hear the perspective of a European. I live over in South Korea and I notice a ton of coverage once the primaries get underway. In 2008, a network ran a show about both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama explaining who they are and their stances on the issue.

Although I support Sanders, I think there's a good chance you won't be able to help him unless he picks up more steam in the primaries.

I agree with you Hillary Clinton won't appeal to independents and she probably won't appeal to some Democrats either.

[PeterGM]

111. thank you :)

[Bad Dog]

112. What part of Europe are you from?

It's just the bit I'm in the newspapers are all about the refugee crisis, the referendum, war in Syria and Vladimir Putin. There's not much about the primaries at all, save Donald Trump being a nutjob. As far as Clinton/Sanders goes the reporting is very neutral, and only political junkies like myself even know who Sanders is. As for Clinton being a warmonger, I've not seen that in any of our papers, the only place I've seen it is on DU coming from the Sanders camp.

Europe isn't like America, despite the European parliament and the Eurozone it's still very much a collection of nation states. People consider themselves Dutch, German, French, Spanish first and European second. I don't even consider myself British let alone European, I'm English. Talking about the view from Europe is not something a European would say, I've never said it, I talk about the view from the UK. I think you're an American indulging in wishful thinking and playing "Let's Pretend."

I might be wrong, and if I am I would advise you not to fly over to America to start political campaigning. People don't like it when foreigners try to interfere in their democratic process as The Guardian found out when it tried to persuade people not to vote for Bush. If an American knocked on my door and tried to tell me how to vote in the referendum I'd tell them to F. off.

[Bad Dog]

119. I can't remember seeing anything in The Guardian.

I suppose there may have been an opinion piece I missed, there often is, but three papers are not "tons" and Denmark does not represent all of Europe any more than Britain does.

There's nothing wrong with taking an interest in international politics but don't let your enthusiasm for the subject get in the way of reality.

I'm sure a lot of the far right idiots in Front National would support Trump, but they're not representative either.

Btw, will you be watching FC Midtjylland play United on Thursday? They'll be getting my support, (never liked United,) even though they knocked Southampton out back in August. We wuz robbed.

[PeterGM]

121. I guess you're right :)

"I suppose there may have been an opinion piece I missed, there often is, but three papers are not "tons" and Denmark does not represent all of Europe any more than Britain does. "
You're right I subjectively stretched the truth... My impressions are a bit skewed considering that I read about these 3 stories in the past two weeks and almost all other coverage of American elections I have read has been Trump... Also the coverage is not very frequent and I didn't want to cite Sanders' coverage from Danish newspapers because he has been getting quite a fair amount.
My second distortion might have been because I only read, Danish, British and Italian (i'm half italian) newspapers and 2/3 countries sounding warning sounds probably sounded worse in my head than what it actually was.

Sadly I won't be watching the game, but I hope Man U gets a whoopin... though I don't expect they will They are pretty bad atm though..

[Bad Dog]

122. There's nothing wrong with a bit of youthful enthusiasm.

Unfortunately Americans are very good at taking one opinion piece and spinning it out of all proportion, and they don't need any help from us in doing that.

I hope the same for the United match. I think Midtjylland stand a really good chance. United are in bad form with a lot of injuries and they're playing League 1 minnows Shrewsbury in the FA Cup tonight. If they lose that match it will be total humiliation and the manager will probably get the boot. I don't think they will, but I would put money on Midtjylland qualifying if I was a gambling man.

[PeterGM]

124. i don't think MJ are favorites to win, but they got darn good returns on the odds :)

[Bad Dog]

131. Worth a go then.

United are on the back foot, tonight is a must win game, and they're going to bust a gut going for it. They've got a lot of injuries already, and any more would really scupper them. I don't know when MJ last played, but I bet they'll be more rested and less stressed. There's no shame in losing to United, but a lot of glory. MJ beat Southampton in the Europa Cup and we beat Man U in January.

The score against Shrewsbury is still 0-0 after 15 minutes, and the longer it stays like that, the more the pressure is going to build up.

[Bad Dog]

136. It ended 3-0 to United.

But they won't be celebrating, they'll be breathing a sigh of relief.

[yuiyoshida]

130. Hey! welcome to DU!

[PeterGM]

134. Thank you very much :) eom

[PatrynXX]

27. I used to be one

Wonder did I ever stop being an independent because I registered to be a Democrat. I don't think so. Hillary wins I'll go back to being an independent and I'll make sure to do so anytime before the General election..

[merrily]

29. She undermined Obama in 2008 too.

[Warren DeMontague]

37. Ashley Todd, Political Strategy Consultant

[Kentonio]

113. I'd forgotten about that sick shit.

[SusanCalvin]

38. That's about the size of it, from where I sit. nt

[Aerows]

40. I swear to goodness

some days, this place gives me a damn headache. It's about as fruitful as teaching fish how to tap dance.

[Bryce Butler]

64. ...

[Waiting For Everyman]

41. I can't believe they thought this was going to fly

and people were going to just let them get away with the smears, because icon. Lame. We don't do "sacred cows" in America. That's the whole point.

Great post, frylock!

[azurnoir]

61. It only has to take wing for a very short time -to be effective it did it was and off to the next

stop........ rinse lather repeat with the cooperation of the M$M and DNC

[AtomicKitten]

45. worse, while we deal with this false allegation,

... we aren't dealing with the growing pile of election fraud by Camp Weathervane such as impersonating the Nurses Union, registration numbers not matching up with caucus votes cast, some Clinton caucus voters saying they'd register afterwards but obviously didn't, and SIEU fliers falsely claiming Hillary supports a 15-dollar mnimum wage. Etc.

And then there are the lies, the coapting of Bernie's message, the character assasination, the Rove psyops - all business as usual for the Clinton campaign.

Part of me wants Bernie to open up a can of whoop ass on her. He could annihilate her with the possible impending indictment and the quid pro quo deals she cut at State with dodgy countries and arms manufacturers, payment either to her Foundation or via exorbitant speaking fees paid to her family.

But it gets worse. Lee Fang exposed the lobbyists money polluting the CBC PAC and lobbyists as superdelegates. The party is awash in corporate money, and it all started with the Clintons in the 1990s. The Democratic party had sold its soul to the highest bidder.

James Clyburn, the man Bill Clinton screamed at ar 2AM when his wife lost So Carolina to Obama in 2008, suggests those feeling the bern should coalesce around Hillary. This lifelong Democrat says fuck that. This fight is for the soul of the party and there will be a reckoning one way or another.

[OrwellwasRight]

47. Excellent post!

And you made the Greatest List! Woot woot!!

K&R!

[WolverineDG]

48. She was offering to translate, not address the crowd

and tactics such as this are the MO of the Clinton campaign. They pulled this junk in 2008 & I am severely disappointed to see them do it again.

[TIME TO PANIC]

51. It's disgusting.

Right down there with Lee Atwater and Karl Rove.

[WillyT]

52. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

HRC = By ANY Means Necessary.

[Bangbangdem]

53. Don't even get it

I am horrified by the events that have transpired. If for nothing else, let this be a testament to the end of these dirty tricks. This ain't the seventies, man

[azureblue]

73. and you have resorted

to knowingly repeating a lie that was refuted by many of the people there, including Susan Sarandon. You just go from one lie to another in your post- the first one was refuted by the organizers, even before the event, wanting a neutral translator. For you I will repeat, the word is neutral. I see that you don't understand that so I will rephrase it - a Translator that was not from either party.

Screw you. I am sick of this half lie crap. You got something to post? Then post about why your candidate is better qualified. You start slinging lies and smears, and I will assume you are an effin GOP troll trying to stir up shit. Or else you are an A$$ hole. Pick one.

[frylock]

75. Try reading the post again.

It's 180 degrees to what you think.

[nolabels]

89. You are hard act to follow, but all comedy is priceless

Those pending transcripts will really be a hoot

[Jenny_92808]

101. +1

Thank you for saying that.

[kacekwl]

81. Yea, FTS

[bettyellen]

82. Die? Yeah, fuck these lies, Kirk.

[frylock]

85. Fuck THESE lies, but not THOSE lies, amirite?

It's called social commentary. It may be above your pay grade.

[bettyellen]

86. I'm sure you think you have artistic license. To make up shit while chanting "LIAR" .

It's interesting

[frylock]

88. I'm bonded and certified.

I find it fascinating that conservatives always take things so literally.

[bettyellen]

90. Spend a lot of time with conservatives, check. Advise not voting Dem this November, check....

Anything else you want to share while you are on this roll?

[frylock]

91. You can't help but spend time with conservatives when you spend time on DU.

[bettyellen]

92. I avoid those morons like the plague. See ya later!

[LiberalArkie]

84. Where were all these leaders BEFORE Michael Brown was gunned down. It was happening regularly.

Where were all the leaders in Cleveland BEFORE Tamir Rice was gunned down. Etc Etc Etc


What I am asking is what were all of our great leaders saying about all the killings of POC in these communities before they made the big news. Why wasn't someone talking about it, protesting it before Brown, or Rice or any of the hundreds of others were killed..

[frylock]

87. I'm sitting here and struggling for a response.

I don't know.

[nadinbrzezinski]

140. Damn was about to say something did not happen

. Though we did have another leader outside a mission valley hotel

That be Durazo. Good think I checked.

http://reportingsandiego.com/2013/04/09/and-lastly-a-rally-and-good-news/

Look for hunger strike as a search item. That was a hell of a week

[Enthusiast]

97. Kicked and recommended! Fuck this shit.

We recognize this shit. We have recognized this shit for years. And we do not like this shit.

[MisterP]

106. I'm just waiting for the next shoe to drop

ironically her method of appealing to minorities comes from Single White Female

[OnyxCollie]

107. SPEAK ENGLISH OR DIE!

&spfreload=10

[TBF]

116. I had never actually registered as anything prior to Obama

although I always voted in the presidential elections. I declared as a democrat so I could caucus for Obama. I left it in place to vote for Bernie as a dem last week (early voting in TX).

We shall see what happens. So far I am not impressed with Hillary's coin tosses or trotting out civil rights icons to lie for her. I may well end up declaring independent by the time this is over.

It is beyond frustrating but for now I'm supporting Bernie and trying to stay patient.

[concreteblue]

118. K and Fuhqing r....

I wrote my first OP just now on this topic.
It is beyond appalling how the Clinton camp is behaving.

[cali]

120. Kill buddhas and dare not to be cowed by sacred... cows.

[U of M Dem]

125. Everyone has a price...

Wether it be 30 pieces of silver or scoring a backroom deal with possibly the next President. I am no conspiracy nut, I just think I understand people and motivation well enough to see what is the most likely reason for multiple so called icons attack seemingly on command. HRC is a very good politician, but personally I would not want a career political "player" represent me in office. Too much ego, way too dangerous to the world. Just thinking how the vindictiveness would translate to foreign policy has me very fucking concerned.

[emsimon33]

126. I questioned the chanting when it was reported

Since the establishment (and that includes executives of such organizations as NARAL and HRC as well as "activists&quot will do anything to prevent Bernie's being the nominee, I just thought that there were Hillary plants in the audience. I did not consider that Delores Huerta would be so craven...but then, as I have said time and again, Hillary and the establishment will do anything (I do believe ANYTHING) to stop Bernie.

[whatchamacallit]

127. Decades of neoliberalism has cracked the foundations of the party

The second coming of the Clintons will demolish it. Great post frylock!

[SammyWinstonJack]

132. BERNIE BECAUSE...

FUCK THIS SHIT!

[sus453]

137. Dolores Huerta is an "icon"

who, like so many other icons, has seems to have become a sell-out and a political hack. In the 60s and 70s she and Cesar Chavez were strongly against immigrants to the point of having urged legislation to punish business for hiring undocumented workers. In 2008 she attacked Obama in the same way she did Bernie, even attacking his 2002 opposition to the Iraq war.

Here's the article:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/2/21/1488535/-Dolores-Huerta-did-the-same-thing-to-Obama-in-2008


What really bothers me is that the "English only" story has made its way all over the mainstream media, again without first checking to see what really happened.

[malletgirl02]

139. Wow she attacked Obama's

opposition to the Iraq war, even when it was clear it was a clusterfuck? Wow just wow.

[SMC22307]

141. In other words, Huerta isn't the saint she's made out to be...

by Camp Weathervaners on this site who likely had never heard of her until Saturday. Too late to read all that now; bookmarking for later.