2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumClinton: It’s ‘wrong’ for Bernie Sanders to make campaign promises he can’t keep
Clinton characterized Sanderss promises as wrong, adding a more personal dimension to her frequent criticism of his plans as unlikely to be achieved and impractical.
I dont think its right to look a person in the eye whos hurting and needs help and tell them that if they vote for you, youll get $5,000 of health care and only have to pay for $500 for it, Clinton said at Texas Southern University. You shouldnt say that unless you can really deliver it you cant deliver it.
If the numbers dont add up, its wrong to make those promises, she said at the campaign rally, which drew about 2,000 people. Because its not just about math, its about peoples lives.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/02/21/clinton-its-wrong-for-bernie-sanders-to-make-campaign-promises-he-cant-keep/
cali
(114,904 posts)for him to pass much of anything and that is true for the liar too.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)He knows that. We know that. Do all those people who flock to his fed-up message know that?
I brushed off Bernie's demagogery for months because he's running for election and that's fairly normal for candidates, plus...who knew for sure? But, as time went on and it became clear the massive support wasn't materializing, it became...inappropriate to excuse. Without that tidal wave carrying him and many new people into office, he not only cannot achieve what he promises but is a poor substitute for a far stronger and more competent candidate with a large and positive plan for accomplishing a great deal that we can achieve.
Note also that many experts feel Hillary is significantly more likely to help carry more Democratic congressional and state candidates to victory with her, including taking the Senate! She has real potential to be a more powerful president.
Whoever it is in the end, let's hope that is the case, right?
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
bobbobbins01
(1,681 posts)The washington post is pure propaganda at this point. This primary has opened a lot of eyes.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)cali
(114,904 posts)I've been saying for years here that she cannot win a national election
She is repugnant
On Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:51 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
She's a corrupt liar with horrible judgment
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1294800
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Oh ffs. Over the top attacks over and over on a winning Dem candidate. What is this, Free Republic? B
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Feb 21, 2016, 06:59 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Good, bad, indifferent she will most likely be the nominee. Acceptance is part of the grief process.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Over the top? Get a grip on reality. That's not even close.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: the alert reason is nastier than than the reply that has been alerted
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: if there is anywhere to say it, this is the place. Not a lot different from other posts in this forum
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
24601
(3,962 posts)It's interesting, but the sample size is too small to draw any inference over the politics of the jury vote. At 7 AM on a Sunday, I'll bet the jury pool isn't that large.
Also, a few other thoughts.
Jury instructions are to apply DU standards rather than vote for the candidate of your choice. Even in our politically-active population, it's likely that some DUers will follow the instructions. Some probably will not.
In this regard, I'm also recalling my time in the Army - there is a few UCMJ punitive articles that apply to Officers, Cadets & Midshipman but not to Enlisted personnel. One of them is Conduct Unbecoming an Officer and Gentleman/Gentlewoman. The other is Contempt Towards Officials. It singles out a handful of people like POTUS, VPOTUS, SECDEF, the Governor if the State you are in, and a few more.
The elements of proof are
First, that the Officer, Cadet or midshipman/woman said/wrote words about the "protected" [my word] official and second, that in the context they were said, the words were contemptuous. Importantly, unlike the civil torts of libel or slander, the truth of the words is not a defense.
In the 90s, an Air Force Major General (2-star) remarked in a graduation address that Bill Clinton was a draft-dodging, dome-smoking womanizer. He was punished and his career was effectively over. I suppose if he had added...And as a fighter pilot, I recognize him as one of us and induct him as an honorary fighter pilot - Go Bill, save a few for us dude! the intent would not have been contemptuous and he could have been found no guilty.
So what is our real standard on DU? Is truth a defense? If it is opinion, if the poster sincerely believes it (hard to judge sometimes) should we let it stand? Should certain attacks on ANYBODY (for example going NAZI when it's not referring to a WWI NAZI) be removed without a jury because that kind of post degrades us as a community?
What I believe it is right now is that if four of the seven tend to agree and chuckle to them self, "well that captures the SOB the way I like", it stands.
I think we can do better. If I was doing Opposition Research for a Republican candidate, I would have a few staff LIVE on DU just to find the most vicious over the top comments of the day and send them to allied press that would put Democratic Candidates on the spot about disavowing to comments - just to drive wedges through fault lines.
chervilant
(8,267 posts)Wrong about Bernie, and wrong for our country.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Legislation will become law, right?
jfern
(5,204 posts)with a 67% not honest and trustworthy rating.
cali
(114,904 posts)safeinOhio
(32,720 posts)for them and still win the election?
cali
(114,904 posts)EdwardBernays
(3,343 posts)not to lie...
But when it comes to honesty she's differently abled.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)The Clinton campaign did not respond to a request for comment or clarification.
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/hillary-clinton-shes-truth-americans/story?id=37043658
NoSeVaya
(12 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 21, 2016, 09:43 AM - Edit history (1)
As per a Christopher Hitchens video that was recently posted on this site, her loyalties are, #1, to herself and, #2, to her husband, and ,now, maybe, to her daughter. That's it. She lies compulsively and, for no real reason-----just makes stuff up. Before her absolutely disreputable behavior and low life tactics during this primary, I would have voted for her. Not now. I am an older woman who has made, pathetically I suppose, the decision that I can not vote for her. I think she is vile and cowardly. In the last several months, she has absolutely turned me around and turned me off (along with the DNC and associated democrats). If she is the nominee, I will write in Bernie Sanders. Sad, huh. I've given this some real thought, and I have resolved not to change my mind. I have determined that she is absolutely despicable.
Here is the Hitchens Video. 5 minutes
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017331580
And, some of her lies. All of the republicans are sick and twisted, but how can we elect a compulsive, acknowledged and, even admitted liar to the presidency? WOW!!!
I guess everybody has seen this, but it's worth repeating. View the liar.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017331580
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)It's incredibly disappointing that more people don't see through her bullshit. Her presidency would be a disaster for almost all of us.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)reformist2
(9,841 posts)How dare Bernie keep floating the idea of subsidized health care - subsidized anything??? You heard it from her - a family who needs "5,000 dollars worth of health care" won't be getting any relief from her!
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Gods, the hypocrisy of this woman.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)And coming from a "Democrat" makes it worse.
itsrobert
(14,157 posts)n/t
MattSh
(3,714 posts)Promise nothing, and deliver nothing.
polly7
(20,582 posts)loyalsister
(13,390 posts)Instead of saying we can do better, she seems to be betting that people who were hopeful through Obama's campaign and disappointed after will find a depressing, low bar candidate appealing.
JBoy
(8,021 posts)Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)To represent the New Deal values of the Democratic Party and to consistently appease the interests of corporate America.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)On his promises. It starts to feel like a scam
PeoViejo
(2,178 posts)hoosierlib
(710 posts)It's wrong to take millions in speaking fees and campaign contributions and claim you are impartial...
It's wrong to invade countries and depose dictators with no plan of how to secure the peace...
It's wrong to lie about and distort your opponents record...
It's wrong to store classified material on an unsecured network...
But whatever, right?
thesquanderer
(11,992 posts)You know, the program that Obama hasn't been able to get passed?
At least Sanders tell us he can't do it alone. So who is being more honest?
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)Why can't those Foundation goals, and 'awesome' Foundation Fund raising, awesome campaign fund raising- be applied to Americans?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)I really want someone to ask her how she gets the Republicans to vote to expand the ACA.
It's one of her "promises". And she can't keep it. Along with many, many other promises.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)TTUBatfan2008
(3,623 posts)None of them will pass with a GOP Congress. Difference between the two is Bernie won't sign TPP while Hillary will. Bernie won't support regime change for the hell of it, while Hillary will (Syria/Libya).