PLEASE - Stop the fairy tales and face reality.

[Skwmom]

Last edited Sun Feb 21, 2016, 04:12 AM - Edit history (2)

If A Corporatist is elected, they will continue to run up the debt with giveaways to the 1% and
corporations. Anything promoted as being for the people will deliver PEANUTS to the people and huge largess to the 1%, the corporations, and the family and friends of our corrupt politicians.

Once the debt reaches a certain point they will slash social security, medicare, medicaid, military and federal pensions, etc. and blame the 90% for creating the situation (which is utter bullshit). I think the percentage of the national debt attributable to corruption and corporate and billionaire welfare would boggle the mind.

We can't incrementally change things. It is NOT possible to right this ship with incremental change.

Update: And the sovereignty of the US will be turned over to multinational corporations which will be blessed by the corporatist judges.

And if we do NOT put back in place an updated Glass-Steagall and break up the big banks the next financial mess will make 2008 pale in comparison. Also as pointed out by Valarief it means endless wars.

[NuclearDem]

1. You're quite the prolific poster tonight.

[Fearless]

3. Is that against the rules?

[NuclearDem]

4. Bah, rules schmules. This is GD-P!

The P is for pandemonium.

GodDamn-Pandemonium.

[Fearless]

6. Is it against the rules to post a lot?

[polly7]

37. Do you keep close tabs on posters? nt.

[betsuni]

46. Heh

[MohRokTah]

2. OFFS!

[Ken Burch]

7. Responses like that just make you look like a "you kids get off my lawn!" type.

It's ineffective and unattractive.

You're better than that.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

5. Hillary supporters do not understand - The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism

wonder what they do read

[Hortensis]

48. Doesn't matter what people read if

it's chosen and filtered to reinforced old notions. In my own very firm opinion, anyone who reacts to creeping fascism and corporatism by attacking the Democratic candidates is a fool.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

50. well I must be one

...

[Hortensis]

53. Sorry to hear you're committed to attacking the Democrats.

Where will you go after the primary?

[cui bono]

61. Anyone who blindly follows their party without question is a fool.

And anyone who doesn't think the Dems are playing to corporatism is a fool.

The DLC's, which the Clintons have been part of since its inception, now the Third Way, whole purpose was to cozy up to corporations and Wall Street in order to tap into their campaign donations. Anyone who doesn't think that money influences policy is a fool.

.

[Agnosticsherbet]

8. Do you have a good source

For tinfoil hats, at least SPF 1000.

[Eko]

9. We can't incrementally change things?

History says differently. The emancipation didn't give blacks the right to vote, that came later. Social Security didn't cover everybody at first, that came later. Tons of examples are available.

[Skwmom]

12. I'd suggest you read up about civilizations nearing the point of collapse. Ever hear of the fall of

the Roman Empire?

[Eko]

14. Sure know all about it.

But this is what you said "We can't incrementally change things. It is NOT possible. " and I showed how it was wrong, now you want to change the goalposts to America is going to fall or some such bull. Change can come incrementally and you are wrong, history shows it. It can also come quick, but I never said it couldn't.

[Eko]

16. So

Can change come incrementally or not?

[Skwmom]

21. Incremental change will NOT right this ship. You remind me of the hacks that keep after Sanders so

they will get the sound bite they want. A sea change is required to rectify the situation. Incremental change is MEANINGLESS.

[Eko]

22. Once again that is not what you said.

Here it is again "We can't incrementally change things. It is NOT possible. " Meaningless? It gave women and african americans the right to vote, gays the right to marry, all kinds of things. But, I digress. What you said is so obviously wrong.

[newthinking]

28. Change will happen in steps and leaps both. But you can't really get "change" without actually

confronting and changing the debate.

Reagan understood that (unfortunately) and the Republicans do. Our leadership *should* but either they don't or they don't really *want* to change.

I see no evidence that Hillary understands this and it is pretty apparent that "incremental change" from her will not result in real change, but simply make for some bumps in the continued assaults (if anything).

Democrats should have been in FULL control of the presidency and Congress since Bush effectively destroyed the Republican party. It is EXTREMELY telling and indicative that even with the Republican party weak and in dissarray the party is not able to gain that advantage. And our party will remain weak in the face of incredible opportunity with this continued "leadership".

[Eko]

31. Yes change comes in steps and leaps, said that somewhere here,

I think Clinton understands this, hence the health care bill she pushed in the 80's? 90's,,,,. I think we need huge change, never said we didnt. Republicans govern on fear, we dont. Fear is the greatest motivator, so maybe give the Democratic party a bit of leeway. I'm for Sanders, just took issue with "We can't incrementally change things. It is NOT possible." when it is proven a fact by history.

[TIME TO PANIC]

32. +1,000,000

[bettyellen]

59. Yeah- it is interesting the history you need to ignore to believe incremental change is not how

many people achieved their basic human rights. It seems not to be on the radar for some people.


the Reagan revolution took a dozen years to bear real fruit. This does not compute.

[jmowreader]

25. And how, exactly, do you plan to get a sea change that you would like?

Subject Sanders to the kinds of attacks the GOP will undoubtedly hit him with, and he loses to all of them. Worse, he doesn't even lose "narrowly" - Sanders gets stomped. Bad. If you think shit's bad NOW, just wait until we get President Trump or President Cruz and 65 Republican senators - a HIGHLY feasible scenario.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/berned-up

Oh, trust me, you'll GET a sea change if Bernie is on the general election ticket...abortion banned, gay marriage banned, the Constitution amended to make Christianity the official religion and English the official language...DO NOT DO THIS TO US!

[redruddyred]

30. enough of this line

we saw in 2014 how badly pandering to the center worked for the dems. time for a new strategy.

[jmowreader]

34. Oh, GREAT!

"Run the most unelectable Democratic presidential candidate in the history of America, and watch the GOP finish the job George W. Bush started."

Great strategy! You damn well better surrender your passport when Sanders gets curb-stomped in November so you'll be here to enjoy the benefits of what you did to this country.

And...don't bring up midterm elections. Democrats ALWAYS blow midterm elections.

[redruddyred]

36. are you referring to hillary

DNC should definitely think twice about nominating a candidate with a nat'l 42% approval rating

[jmowreader]

38. I am referring to the idiot you are supporting

"Yeah, there will be tax increases" is, all by itself, enough to sink his candidacy. The last guy who tried it - Walter Mondale - lost 49 states, and the same thing will happen to Bernie.

[redruddyred]

39. do you deny the federal gov't has a revenue problem

regardless, the increased tax burden will lie solely on those who can more than afford it. it doesn't effect >80% of the population.

[malokvale77]

55. Is it OK to call the candidate you support an idiot?

[John Poet]

40. We didn't blow the midterms in 2006...

I think Hillary will get "curb-stomped' if she's the nominee.

So you better surrender YOUR passport, so you'll be here to enjoy the benefits of what you and Hillary did to this country.

[newthinking]

33. See my post above. Change will not happen until the people

bring about the rise of leadership that will use bully pulpits to challenge and change the dynamics. Bernie has already started that engine and people are trying to mount that change.

Most of the masses do not learn in advance and think about how to create a better world. Change has always worked by (a minority) of people rising up at great risk and pushing forward a new vision.

This is indeed just the start but shit people on our own side need to stop being afraid of the battlefield and getting in the way. That only guarantees that the current momentum against us will continue.

Sometimes a "benevolent leader" may arise from out of the establishment, but that is extremely unusual, because you normally don't get into power without embracing the status quo. Bernie is one of the few that has not only kept true to progressive values even when it cost him riches, but has done so for a long enough stretch that we can depend on it. He may not get most change done in his administration, but I can guarantee you that he (and his VP) will fight tooth and nail to block negative legislation; and he will continually pound the country with VISION and continually work to grow a movement. That is what is needed.

You are living a fantasy if you think that change will happen without this kind of risk, or you are too young to realize that we have already tried the approach that Hillary represents for more than 30 years and all we do is defeat our ourselves with our fear.

[WiffenPoof]

49. Excellent Post

Well played my friend.

[treestar]

41. LOL

[shawn703]

44. Interesting that you used the example of blacks

Since it's a perfect example of why waiting for changes to happen over generations is wrong.

[Kang Colby]

10. ITT...empty populist rhetoric AKA "the Sanders platform". n/t

[Skwmom]

13. It is the truth. Ignorance is bliss. I get that. Unfortunately (or fortunately) some of us do not

have that luxury. We see what is going on.

[snot]

11. Thank you for a big picture post.

[Califonz]

15. People had to have their faces torn off by the Great Depression to elect FDR in 1932

Maybe that's what it takes in the good old USA, where the poor and barely making it consider themselves temporarily embarrassed millionaires...

Elizabeth Warren 2020 anyone?

[Skwmom]

18. One the TPP and TISA are put in place we are in big trouble. On Warren - if she doesn't have the

guts to step out and fight against the corruption and the big money control of our government, she will NEVER be the fighter this country needs.

[Eko]

19. Not much for

answering questions are you?

[Eko]

20. Naw,

you are too busy zipping around posting Palin type things to have a discussion that might show where you were wrong. I get it, you hate Clinton as bad as Republicans do,,,,, odd that.

[Skwmom]

57. Hate is the wrong word. Thoroughly disgusted with how they do business and what they have done to

this county.

[workinclasszero]

43. Funny how senator Warren

Is being thrown under the gaping maw of the Bernie bus now.

Bernie fans really lost their collective minds after one defeat. What's gonna happen after SC and super tuesday?

[Skwmom]

56. In prior posts I have written about my Warren skepticism.

[valerief]

17. Corporatist = endless war. nt

[Skwmom]

42. It will be endless work. The corp media will beat the drum, polls will be taken, and off to war we

will go.

[Kittycat]

23. And get ready for your Centrist Judge Nominee

Coming soon.

[Half-Century Man]

24. The third wayers are the vulture capitalists of government.

They are in it to dismember it. Like teabaggers, but with a payday in mind.

[NowSam]

26. Perfectly stated

Urgent timely message. it's now or never.

[PatrickforO]

27. Wish I could say, no you're wrong. But I can't.

We've got to get Bernie in there.

[Mira]

29. Thank you.

That's exactly how it is

[LibDemAlways]

35. Look what centrist and right wing government has gotten us

in recent times:

The gap between the top 1% and everybody else is huge and continues to grow.

Higher education is unaffordable for all but the wealthy. Everyone else is faced with the daunting prospect of taking on sometimes soul crushing debt in order to earn the sheepskin that qualifies the recpient to compete for low paying jobs offering few benefits and no security.

Health care costs continue to spiral out of control. Despite the ACA, millions remain uninsured and millions more can't afford the outrageous premiums, deductibles, and co-pays. What's the point of mandating health insurance that's pretty much a boondoggle for the insurance companies and a ripoff for the consumer?

The US is perpetually at war. We've wasted millions in the Middle East killing people, making enemies, and creating terrorist groups like ISIS.

Our public education system focuses on standardized testing to the exclusion of critical thinking. My daughter, a recent graduate of a top public university, was assigned to complete group projects with students who couldn't write a simple sentence or formulate a coherent thought.

American workers are being replaced with H1-B visa holders. This disgraceful practice,which screws Americans big time, is sanctioned by both parties.

The many thousands of homeless who roam our streets and sleep on our sidewalks are all but invisible to the government. Their plight barely rates a mention in any political forum.

Racism is rampant and people are unashamed and actually quite proud to proclaim that Latinos from south of the border and Muslims in general should be kept out of the country.

Is this really the kind of America we want to live in? An America where people go without health care, students are crushed by debt, schools teach nothing but "the test," the bloated war machine takes up a disproportionate share of the budget while our infrastructure crumbles, our transporation system is antiquated, families living in poverty are called deadbeats, workers are displaced, part-time work with no benefits is common.....And all the while, obscenely wealthy corporate executives buy off politicians so that the rest of us have little to no say about anything that affects our lives.

Democrats have a clear choice this year. One candidate promises not much more than a continuation of the status quo. The other candidate asks us to join him in fighting for change, so that the many ways the country has gone off the rails under centrist and rightwing government can start to be addressed. Only when the people of this country declare they've had enough and start voting like they mean it will there be even a glimmer of hope that anything will change.

[betsuni]

45. Stop the fairy tales and face reality PLEASE

[Broward]

47. Some are uninformed, but many just don't care.

They are corporatists. They are conservatives.

[ladjf]

51. I'm losing faith in American's ability to make an sane political choices. nt

[islandmkl]

52. people who question 'sea change' are really just fighting for the status quo...

'you can't expect to change things that way', etc. are merely attempts to blunt the argument that we need a massive correction of the operational system in the US...

if you don't think it's broken, if you think it only needs a little tweaking, if you think patience will pay off for all the people who are constantly being beaten out of the middle class downward, if you think someone who wants to 'address the issues but will be careful about trying to do too much' will actually do ANYTHING to try to slow down (let alone stop) the growing oligarchical power structure that is bleeding America dry...

if that was the attitude in the 60's (yes, the bad old nostalgic 60's) we would probably still be in Viet Nam...at least America was alive and awake then and the people, on both sides of the spectrum, were involved...there was turmoil and it was good, in the long run, for the country...

now we just have endless war, military spending taking more than half of the budget, wealth disparity is such a joke that it is not even a barometer of how the average American is doing, jobs and factories shipped to foreign lands, and the ability of Americans to actually have a say in how they are governed is a sham promoted by 'elections' where the people get, in almost all cases, a choice between and corporatist "D" and a corporatist "R" candidate...

yeah, we need a fucking change and many people are tired of this 'death by a thousand cuts', the daily erosion of our society and culture...sometimes you just have to face the nemesis and let the swords decide the battle...

[djean111]

54. The only "incremental" changes would be to social programs, and those changes would be cuts.

The Third Way has a to-do list, methinks, and looks like they will do anything to get to inflict it on the United States.

[Uncle Joe]

58. I believe you nailed it.

Thanks for the thread, Skwmom.

[Beacool]

60. The "fairy tale" candidate is the one you're supporting.

Just saying......