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WiffenPoof

(2,404 posts)
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 11:58 AM Feb 2016

Bernie and The Black Vote

Someone needs to explain to me as if I were a third grader why there is this belief that Sanders is perceived as weak with the black vote.

I mean there is video of him protesting and being arrested in support of AA when it comes to segregation... There are other examples. How is it that he is seen as someone who is not fully passionate when it comes to AA issues. Sincerely confused.

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Bernie and The Black Vote (Original Post) WiffenPoof Feb 2016 OP
There are these things called "polls" firebrand80 Feb 2016 #1
Cause Sanders associated his campaign with someone who called the 1st black prez "n-word-izzed" uponit7771 Feb 2016 #2
Thanks....nt WiffenPoof Feb 2016 #6
The skew was even worse before associating with West whatchamacallit Feb 2016 #12
Strawman, I never said it was just that reason uponit7771 Feb 2016 #21
yeah you did. Asked why you said 'because of West'. Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #35
Because of west and 2 other reasons... that's in my post, were not intitaled to our own realities uponit7771 Feb 2016 #36
West didn't help. That association turned off a lot of AAs brush Feb 2016 #53
Let me know when he starts using racist dog whistles against a black cnadidate LondonReign2 Feb 2016 #45
What about associating himself with a person who called Obama "n-word-izzed".. that good enough? tia uponit7771 Feb 2016 #47
Probably not a good move. As others have noted, his numbers have stilled moved positively LondonReign2 Feb 2016 #48
I answered your question, now where is West at in the same profile he was in IA?! Sounds like uponit7771 Feb 2016 #49
+1 zappaman Feb 2016 #59
Have you ever considered the fact that trying to tout something he did giftedgirl77 Feb 2016 #3
Yet Hillary gets a pass on it all? AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #5
I think HRC is full of shit on many things as well so no, there are giftedgirl77 Feb 2016 #10
She is above critique for some mysterious reason AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #13
Lolol, & that means what? giftedgirl77 Feb 2016 #14
So you are saying he isn't Jewish enough cuz he doesn't live in Israel?? AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #16
I'm saying nobody in my age group gives a shit that he's Jewish. giftedgirl77 Feb 2016 #20
+1 uponit7771 Feb 2016 #29
What about other age groups? AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #38
So we've gone from minorities to age groups? giftedgirl77 Feb 2016 #56
Ask the person who brought it up AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #61
How bout the posters question in regards to blacks!? I would like to know if that's what you're... uponit7771 Feb 2016 #27
Sanders has never "bashed" Obama AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #39
This is false on its face, there are a myriad of videos of him calling Obama rightward, weak.. uponit7771 Feb 2016 #40
Criticism isnt bashing AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #42
Calling Obama weak and rightward is beyond just criticizing, we both know this and if its uponit7771 Feb 2016 #46
Bernie being Jewish is no issue at all. No one that I know ever even mentions that. brush Feb 2016 #54
That's what I was saying. If nobody ever mentioned it I wouldn't have known. giftedgirl77 Feb 2016 #57
Hillary never associated her campaign with a person who called Obama "n-word-izzed" either... uponit7771 Feb 2016 #24
Association fallacy Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #37
Sanders knew how West felt about Obama and choose to have him as a surrogate anyway... uponit7771 Feb 2016 #41
Yet you have MLK UglyGreed Feb 2016 #15
Ummm, MLK is a great civil rights icon that fought for equality giftedgirl77 Feb 2016 #18
But it was so long ago UglyGreed Feb 2016 #19
Awww, aren't you special. giftedgirl77 Feb 2016 #22
I know, I know UglyGreed Feb 2016 #25
Nope, thankfully you've accepted that. giftedgirl77 Feb 2016 #28
So very liberal UglyGreed Feb 2016 #31
You do understand the man is dead right?! REALLY PEOPLE!!! CTFD uponit7771 Feb 2016 #30
Of course I do UglyGreed Feb 2016 #33
The point being there's no life time hood pass anywhere, the relationships count and Clinton has .. uponit7771 Feb 2016 #34
Exactly. Bobbie Jo Feb 2016 #4
Not everyone thinks Bernie is weak - huge endorsement today from Nevada jillan Feb 2016 #7
Thanks...nt WiffenPoof Feb 2016 #8
Politics is a funny game. aaaaaa5a Feb 2016 #9
Wow... That is pretty straight forward... WiffenPoof Feb 2016 #11
... an in 8 years between 08 primary and now there's NOTHING that happened between the two uponit7771 Feb 2016 #32
What are those things? It is noticable that you never cite them. If you say she endeared herself to Bluenorthwest Feb 2016 #43
Wanting to carry on with the Obama legacy... next?! uponit7771 Feb 2016 #44
What does that even mean? frylock Feb 2016 #52
GG joshcryer Feb 2016 #17
I find it odd too. PotatoChip Feb 2016 #23
Liberal_Stewart lays it out here in her passionate post very well Arazi Feb 2016 #26
Very early in the campaign the Clinton camp, through surrogates, began to push the idea Maedhros Feb 2016 #50
This is pretty much how I saw it... WiffenPoof Feb 2016 #63
It started with polling, and continued because polling still shows him lagging Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #51
There are good reasons why African Americans are not supporting Sanders Gothmog Feb 2016 #55
Excellent Post WiffenPoof Feb 2016 #64
The rationale of that post applies to other Obama supporters like myself who are not POC Gothmog Feb 2016 #65
Hillary has a longer and continuing relationship with people in the black community JI7 Feb 2016 #58
Take a look at how the average Sanders supporter Blue_Tires Feb 2016 #60
Both candidates have their positives and negatives. MerryBlooms Feb 2016 #62

firebrand80

(2,760 posts)
1. There are these things called "polls"
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:00 PM
Feb 2016

They call people and ask them about themselves, and who they plan on voting for. In every poll done, black people favor Clinton by a pretty large margin.

It's not a belief, it's a fact.

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
2. Cause Sanders associated his campaign with someone who called the 1st black prez "n-word-izzed"
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:02 PM
Feb 2016

and doing what's right isn't going to give someone a life time "hood pass" either.

A relationship, how ever imperfect, is what Clinton built speaking in black and Hispanic churches, community centers, schools and homes.

Sanders is now trying to build a similar relationship weeks before he needs votes but at the same time calling the person who has a relationship with the marginalized already, how ever imperfect... a sell out... not a good campaign tactic.

Also, Sanders has OPENLY said he's NOT... NOT going to continue Obama's legacy and said in contrast to that very question that we need a "course correctlon" as if Obama has sent us on that arent course

This all falls into line with Sanders YEARS ... (not just a couple of comments on TV or phone calls) of consummate Obama bashing


What the hell did people expect?!?!!/

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
35. yeah you did. Asked why you said 'because of West'.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:50 PM
Feb 2016

It's what you typed, and then you claim you didn't. That's silly.

LondonReign2

(5,213 posts)
48. Probably not a good move. As others have noted, his numbers have stilled moved positively
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 01:08 PM
Feb 2016

since then. Still, probably not a good move. But again, please let me know when he actively uses racist dog whistles against a black candidate in order to pander to "white Americans" who are scared to vote for the black man.

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
49. I answered your question, now where is West at in the same profile he was in IA?! Sounds like
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 01:18 PM
Feb 2016

... Sanders did something similar just usd someone else's mouth?!

tia

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
3. Have you ever considered the fact that trying to tout something he did
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:05 PM
Feb 2016

almost 20 years before I was born is a joke? Bernie has done nothing but provide lip service to minorities since then, all he cares about is evil "Wallstreet" & appears to throw some bones to minorities when he thinks it needs to be heard.

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
5. Yet Hillary gets a pass on it all?
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:08 PM
Feb 2016

Double standard. I believe his heritage has something to do with it.

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
10. I think HRC is full of shit on many things as well so no, there are
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:12 PM
Feb 2016

no free passes. The question was posed as to why we take issue with Sanders, so I responded in kind. If being an old white guy is considered a heritage you go with that.

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
14. Lolol, & that means what?
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:18 PM
Feb 2016

The guy was born here & doesn't flaunt that in any way shape or form. My biggest concern with him being Jewish would be his alligence to Israel & HRC is way more fucked up than him.

Are you saying black folks & other minorities have an issue with him because he's Jewish?

 

AgingAmerican

(12,958 posts)
16. So you are saying he isn't Jewish enough cuz he doesn't live in Israel??
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:23 PM
Feb 2016

And his stance on Israel? Judaism doesn't matter which country you live in or what your position on Israel is. They are racial minorities.

My AA brother in law and his friends rant endlessly about Bernie's 'heritage'. They must be the odd men out.

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
20. I'm saying nobody in my age group gives a shit that he's Jewish.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:26 PM
Feb 2016

No, I said HRC is batshit insane in her alligence to Israel & O honestly have no idea where he stands bc he hides from foreign policy.

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
27. How bout the posters question in regards to blacks!? I would like to know if that's what you're...
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:30 PM
Feb 2016

... saying also cause this is crazy.

Sanders screwed up royally bashing Obama, a very very popular AA president and now is trying to tree hug him

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
40. This is false on its face, there are a myriad of videos of him calling Obama rightward, weak..
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 01:00 PM
Feb 2016

... and when asked if he'd continue Obama's legacy Sanders said NO "we need a course correction" cause Obama sent us on the wrong course!?!?

Whatever, Sanders is eating his words now...

The marginalized groups aren't going to be nice to him in the primaries

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
46. Calling Obama weak and rightward is beyond just criticizing, we both know this and if its
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 01:03 PM
Feb 2016

... not why doesn't Sanders fess up now and say he said those things and would do it again.

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
24. Hillary never associated her campaign with a person who called Obama "n-word-izzed" either...
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:28 PM
Feb 2016

... or consummantly bashed Obama every chance she got

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
37. Association fallacy
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:56 PM
Feb 2016

guilt by association:
1.guilt ascribed to someone not because of any evidence but because of their association with an offender.

Guilt by association as an ad hominem fallacy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy#Guilt_by_association_as_an_ad_hominem_fallacy


The wiki link also covers 'honor by association' which is about hitching your wagon to a popular person to enhance your own popularity.

To contrast, when citing Hillary's anti LGBT history one can simply quote what she said. No need to point out that she too is associated with those who called LGBT pedophiles nor that she has praised those who engage in such hate speech. She has done so, but there is no need to use that because so much of her own anti equality verbiage is well recorded.

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
41. Sanders knew how West felt about Obama and choose to have him as a surrogate anyway...
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 01:01 PM
Feb 2016

... that's not just GBA...

 

giftedgirl77

(4,713 posts)
18. Ummm, MLK is a great civil rights icon that fought for equality
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:24 PM
Feb 2016

regardless of political repercussions.

Bernie Sanders is essentially a groupie that may have attended a rally, huge difference. HUGE.

UglyGreed

(7,661 posts)
33. Of course I do
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:35 PM
Feb 2016

and I mean no disrespect to his legacy but when people say things that happened in the past does not count it makes no sense to me.

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
34. The point being there's no life time hood pass anywhere, the relationships count and Clinton has ..
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:36 PM
Feb 2016

.... spent decades building an imperfect one with marginalized groups... TALKING in town halls, churches, community centers etc

Because of that polls show the marginalized tilt heavy towards her now

aaaaaa5a

(4,667 posts)
9. Politics is a funny game.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:11 PM
Feb 2016

In 2008, Hillary was crushed by the black vote, while she ran around the country touting her ability to attract "white" working class voters.

In 2016, Hillary loves President Obama, and the black vote is going to all but single handily save her floundering campaign and get her the nomination.


That's politics!

uponit7771

(90,347 posts)
32. ... an in 8 years between 08 primary and now there's NOTHING that happened between the two
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:32 PM
Feb 2016

... that would endear her to AAs?!

tia

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
43. What are those things? It is noticable that you never cite them. If you say she endeared herself to
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 01:01 PM
Feb 2016

you via specific actions in the last 8 years it would be more convincing if you mentioned some of them instead of demanding that others state then for you.

During that time she stopped opposing the rights of LGBT including those who are AA and that was certainly a plus for all of us but 'she stopped bashing' is not really endearing so much as it is just less repulsive. So what's on your list? Nothing? Something? Stuff?

PotatoChip

(3,186 posts)
23. I find it odd too.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:28 PM
Feb 2016

But that is ok.

Unlike Hillary, if Bernie wins, he'll fight hard for the rights of ALL of his constituencies including PoC whether they like it or not. He's done great things on behalf of the people he has represented through-out his entire political career, so there is no reason to believe he'll stop now, just for the sake of political expediency.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
26. Liberal_Stewart lays it out here in her passionate post very well
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 12:29 PM
Feb 2016

She's black and so I trust her to speak her truth.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511179074#post63

Rebkeh in the Bernie Sanders Group has similarly explained it. Search for her posts there

I wouldn't presume to speak for the African Americans here since they do an excellent job themselves. Many have tried over and over to explain and frankly I think a lot are just sick of white people failing to comprehend.

There are black DUers supporting Bernie Sanders who don't share these views so nothing is monolithic imo

 

Maedhros

(10,007 posts)
50. Very early in the campaign the Clinton camp, through surrogates, began to push the idea
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 01:20 PM
Feb 2016

that Sanders "had a problem" with black voters. The media played along, and thus the propaganda was catapulted.

It's entirely a construct of the Clinton campaign, and it's been unraveling in recent months.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
51. It started with polling, and continued because polling still shows him lagging
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 01:25 PM
Feb 2016

with black voters.

But the Clinton camp has done everything they can to drive in a real wedge to back up that polling.

And, let's face it, his record specifically in addressing issues specific to what few black voters there are in Vermont has been very weak. He's much better at addressing national issues than he is local ones when it comes to racial issues.

Gothmog

(145,344 posts)
55. There are good reasons why African Americans are not supporting Sanders
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 02:27 PM
Feb 2016

There are good reasons why the demographics are not working for Sanders and why many voters including some African American voters are not supporting Sanders. Demographics are important in that this explains one of the big divides between Sanders supporters and Clinton supporters. There is a vast difference in how Sanders supporters and Sanders view President Obama and how other Democrats view President Obama. I admit that I am impressed with the amount accomplished by President Obama in face of the stiff GOP opposition to every one of his proposals and I personally believe that President Obama has been a great President. It seems that this view colors who I am supporting in the primary http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-sanders-obama_us_56aa378de4b05e4e3703753a?utm_hp_ref=politics

But lurking behind this argument about the future is a dispute that's really about the past. It’s a debate over what Obama accomplished in office -- in particular, how significant those accomplishments really are. And it's been simmering on the left for most of the last seven years.

On one side of this divide are activists and intellectuals who are ambivalent, disappointed or flat-out frustrated with what Obama has gotten done. They acknowledge what they consider modest achievements -- like helping some of the uninsured and preventing the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression. But they are convinced that the president could have accomplished much more if only he’d fought harder for his agenda and been less quick to compromise.

They dwell on the opportunities missed, like the lack of a public option in health care reform or the failure to break up the big banks. They want those things now -- and more. In Sanders, they are hearing a candidate who thinks the same way.

On the other side are partisans and thinkers who consider Obama's achievements substantial, even historic. They acknowledge that his victories were partial and his legislation flawed. This group recognizes that there are still millions of people struggling to find good jobs or pay their medical bills, and that the planet is still on a path to catastrophically high temperatures. But they see in the last seven years major advances in the liberal crusade to bolster economic security for the poor and middle class. They think the progress on climate change is real, and likely to beget more in the future.

It seems that many of the Sanders supporters hold a different view of President Obama which is also a leading reason why Sanders is not exciting African American voters. Again, it may be difficult for Sanders to appeal to African American voters when one of the premises of his campaign is that Sanders does not think that President Obama is a progressive or a good POTUS.

Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I do not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. There are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (myself included) and many African American Democratic voters are not supporting Sanders.

I understand why Sanders supporters dislike talking about demographics but the fact remain that Sanders supporters tend to not like President Obama and that dislike affects the amount of support that Sanders is getting from certain demographic groups.

Gothmog

(145,344 posts)
65. The rationale of that post applies to other Obama supporters like myself who are not POC
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 08:34 PM
Feb 2016

I strongly believe that President Obama has been an excellent POTUS and I am not willing to throw away his accomplishments or legacy. I find the attacks on President Obama by Sanders supporters to be less than ideal way to get my vote

JI7

(89,252 posts)
58. Hillary has a longer and continuing relationship with people in the black community
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 03:39 PM
Feb 2016

She was actually closer to many, especially in the south than Obama was.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
60. Take a look at how the average Sanders supporter
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 04:13 PM
Feb 2016

has treated high profile black pundits and #BLM on Twitter and get back to me...

Go find an infamous "Stockholm Syndrome" thread on DU from last year and get back to me...

Go see how many Sanders supporters have mercilessly trashed Obama on DU and elsewhere and get back to me...

Look up the racial demographics of Sander's home state and get back to me...


For the record, Sanders himself isn't that weak with the black vote, but his campaign and supporters burned a lot of bridges early on and they've been playing catch-up ever since... Only in the past month did most of them get the memo that they've been pissing away potential votes and cleaned up their act...

MerryBlooms

(11,770 posts)
62. Both candidates have their positives and negatives.
Fri Feb 19, 2016, 06:00 PM
Feb 2016

Respect needs to be earned. If the respect isn't there, then there's more work to be done.

Present facts. Leave your personal editorial out of your post. No one needs any type of, "'splainin'". There's way too much condescending and belittling going on.

It's entirely possible to advocate for your candidate, without disparaging the opposition or their chosen candidate.



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