2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie and The Black Vote
Someone needs to explain to me as if I were a third grader why there is this belief that Sanders is perceived as weak with the black vote.
I mean there is video of him protesting and being arrested in support of AA when it comes to segregation... There are other examples. How is it that he is seen as someone who is not fully passionate when it comes to AA issues. Sincerely confused.
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)They call people and ask them about themselves, and who they plan on voting for. In every poll done, black people favor Clinton by a pretty large margin.
It's not a belief, it's a fact.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)and doing what's right isn't going to give someone a life time "hood pass" either.
A relationship, how ever imperfect, is what Clinton built speaking in black and Hispanic churches, community centers, schools and homes.
Sanders is now trying to build a similar relationship weeks before he needs votes but at the same time calling the person who has a relationship with the marginalized already, how ever imperfect... a sell out... not a good campaign tactic.
Also, Sanders has OPENLY said he's NOT... NOT going to continue Obama's legacy and said in contrast to that very question that we need a "course correctlon" as if Obama has sent us on that arent course
This all falls into line with Sanders YEARS ... (not just a couple of comments on TV or phone calls) of consummate Obama bashing
What the hell did people expect?!?!!/
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)so no, not the reason.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)It's what you typed, and then you claim you didn't. That's silly.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)brush
(53,794 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)since then. Still, probably not a good move. But again, please let me know when he actively uses racist dog whistles against a black candidate in order to pander to "white Americans" who are scared to vote for the black man.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... Sanders did something similar just usd someone else's mouth?!
tia
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)almost 20 years before I was born is a joke? Bernie has done nothing but provide lip service to minorities since then, all he cares about is evil "Wallstreet" & appears to throw some bones to minorities when he thinks it needs to be heard.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Double standard. I believe his heritage has something to do with it.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)no free passes. The question was posed as to why we take issue with Sanders, so I responded in kind. If being an old white guy is considered a heritage you go with that.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Bernie is Jewish. He is a racial minority.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)The guy was born here & doesn't flaunt that in any way shape or form. My biggest concern with him being Jewish would be his alligence to Israel & HRC is way more fucked up than him.
Are you saying black folks & other minorities have an issue with him because he's Jewish?
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And his stance on Israel? Judaism doesn't matter which country you live in or what your position on Israel is. They are racial minorities.
My AA brother in law and his friends rant endlessly about Bernie's 'heritage'. They must be the odd men out.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)No, I said HRC is batshit insane in her alligence to Israel & O honestly have no idea where he stands bc he hides from foreign policy.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... saying also cause this is crazy.
Sanders screwed up royally bashing Obama, a very very popular AA president and now is trying to tree hug him
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Do you believe Obama is above criticism?
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... and when asked if he'd continue Obama's legacy Sanders said NO "we need a course correction" cause Obama sent us on the wrong course!?!?
Whatever, Sanders is eating his words now...
The marginalized groups aren't going to be nice to him in the primaries
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And Obama isnt holy.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... not why doesn't Sanders fess up now and say he said those things and would do it again.
brush
(53,794 posts)giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... or consummantly bashed Obama every chance she got
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)guilt by association:
1.guilt ascribed to someone not because of any evidence but because of their association with an offender.
Guilt by association as an ad hominem fallacy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy#Guilt_by_association_as_an_ad_hominem_fallacy
The wiki link also covers 'honor by association' which is about hitching your wagon to a popular person to enhance your own popularity.
To contrast, when citing Hillary's anti LGBT history one can simply quote what she said. No need to point out that she too is associated with those who called LGBT pedophiles nor that she has praised those who engage in such hate speech. She has done so, but there is no need to use that because so much of her own anti equality verbiage is well recorded.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... that's not just GBA...
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)as your icon????
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)regardless of political repercussions.
Bernie Sanders is essentially a groupie that may have attended a rally, huge difference. HUGE.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)never mind carry on......
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)Opportunistic pandering & yelling but I did that once isn't helping.
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)I must of dropped the ball once again.......... we all can't be gifted.
giftedgirl77
(4,713 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)of you
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)and I mean no disrespect to his legacy but when people say things that happened in the past does not count it makes no sense to me.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts).... spent decades building an imperfect one with marginalized groups... TALKING in town halls, churches, community centers etc
Because of that polls show the marginalized tilt heavy towards her now
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)Where is the gratitude??
eta:
jillan
(39,451 posts)There are more links to this, this is the first one that came up on google.
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)aaaaaa5a
(4,667 posts)In 2008, Hillary was crushed by the black vote, while she ran around the country touting her ability to attract "white" working class voters.
In 2016, Hillary loves President Obama, and the black vote is going to all but single handily save her floundering campaign and get her the nomination.
That's politics!
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts).. Politics indeed.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... that would endear her to AAs?!
tia
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)you via specific actions in the last 8 years it would be more convincing if you mentioned some of them instead of demanding that others state then for you.
During that time she stopped opposing the rights of LGBT including those who are AA and that was certainly a plus for all of us but 'she stopped bashing' is not really endearing so much as it is just less repulsive. So what's on your list? Nothing? Something? Stuff?
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Good game. We lost.
PotatoChip
(3,186 posts)But that is ok.
Unlike Hillary, if Bernie wins, he'll fight hard for the rights of ALL of his constituencies including PoC whether they like it or not. He's done great things on behalf of the people he has represented through-out his entire political career, so there is no reason to believe he'll stop now, just for the sake of political expediency.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)She's black and so I trust her to speak her truth.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511179074#post63
Rebkeh in the Bernie Sanders Group has similarly explained it. Search for her posts there
I wouldn't presume to speak for the African Americans here since they do an excellent job themselves. Many have tried over and over to explain and frankly I think a lot are just sick of white people failing to comprehend.
There are black DUers supporting Bernie Sanders who don't share these views so nothing is monolithic imo
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)that Sanders "had a problem" with black voters. The media played along, and thus the propaganda was catapulted.
It's entirely a construct of the Clinton campaign, and it's been unraveling in recent months.
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)... But I wasn't sure. Looking for evidence of this.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)with black voters.
But the Clinton camp has done everything they can to drive in a real wedge to back up that polling.
And, let's face it, his record specifically in addressing issues specific to what few black voters there are in Vermont has been very weak. He's much better at addressing national issues than he is local ones when it comes to racial issues.
Gothmog
(145,344 posts)There are good reasons why the demographics are not working for Sanders and why many voters including some African American voters are not supporting Sanders. Demographics are important in that this explains one of the big divides between Sanders supporters and Clinton supporters. There is a vast difference in how Sanders supporters and Sanders view President Obama and how other Democrats view President Obama. I admit that I am impressed with the amount accomplished by President Obama in face of the stiff GOP opposition to every one of his proposals and I personally believe that President Obama has been a great President. It seems that this view colors who I am supporting in the primary http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-sanders-obama_us_56aa378de4b05e4e3703753a?utm_hp_ref=politics
On one side of this divide are activists and intellectuals who are ambivalent, disappointed or flat-out frustrated with what Obama has gotten done. They acknowledge what they consider modest achievements -- like helping some of the uninsured and preventing the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression. But they are convinced that the president could have accomplished much more if only hed fought harder for his agenda and been less quick to compromise.
They dwell on the opportunities missed, like the lack of a public option in health care reform or the failure to break up the big banks. They want those things now -- and more. In Sanders, they are hearing a candidate who thinks the same way.
On the other side are partisans and thinkers who consider Obama's achievements substantial, even historic. They acknowledge that his victories were partial and his legislation flawed. This group recognizes that there are still millions of people struggling to find good jobs or pay their medical bills, and that the planet is still on a path to catastrophically high temperatures. But they see in the last seven years major advances in the liberal crusade to bolster economic security for the poor and middle class. They think the progress on climate change is real, and likely to beget more in the future.
It seems that many of the Sanders supporters hold a different view of President Obama which is also a leading reason why Sanders is not exciting African American voters. Again, it may be difficult for Sanders to appeal to African American voters when one of the premises of his campaign is that Sanders does not think that President Obama is a progressive or a good POTUS.
Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I do not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. There are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (myself included) and many African American Democratic voters are not supporting Sanders.
I understand why Sanders supporters dislike talking about demographics but the fact remain that Sanders supporters tend to not like President Obama and that dislike affects the amount of support that Sanders is getting from certain demographic groups.
WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)Well stated. Thanks
Gothmog
(145,344 posts)I strongly believe that President Obama has been an excellent POTUS and I am not willing to throw away his accomplishments or legacy. I find the attacks on President Obama by Sanders supporters to be less than ideal way to get my vote
JI7
(89,252 posts)She was actually closer to many, especially in the south than Obama was.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)has treated high profile black pundits and #BLM on Twitter and get back to me...
Go find an infamous "Stockholm Syndrome" thread on DU from last year and get back to me...
Go see how many Sanders supporters have mercilessly trashed Obama on DU and elsewhere and get back to me...
Look up the racial demographics of Sander's home state and get back to me...
For the record, Sanders himself isn't that weak with the black vote, but his campaign and supporters burned a lot of bridges early on and they've been playing catch-up ever since... Only in the past month did most of them get the memo that they've been pissing away potential votes and cleaned up their act...
MerryBlooms
(11,770 posts)Respect needs to be earned. If the respect isn't there, then there's more work to be done.
Present facts. Leave your personal editorial out of your post. No one needs any type of, "'splainin'". There's way too much condescending and belittling going on.
It's entirely possible to advocate for your candidate, without disparaging the opposition or their chosen candidate.