2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumWhat worries me about Sanders in the general (through absolutely no fault of his own).
He's someone who is honest about who he is, and he'll inevitably be facing someone from the Republicans who is most certainly not honest about who he is.
Sanders has identified himself front and center, no bones about it, as a Democratic Socialist. And that's perfectly great, and admirable, and refreshingly honest. And we here at DU know that such a label isn't a bad thing, that there's nothing to be afraid of in regards to Democratic Socialists, that Democratic Socialists love freedom and democracy just as much as everyone else in civilized society and have absolutely no desire to drive us down to some sort of hardline authoritarian Soviet-esqe route.
That's all common knowledge. At least it is here, in the little bubble we call DU.
Here's the problem though. Whomever the Republicans end up nominating, they aren't going to be anywhere nearly as truthful as to their own personal ideologies.
Right now, the current Republican front runner, even more than being an ideologue, is a proto-fascist. He's a proto-fascist with a huge (or YUGE) narcissistic ego disorder who's able to warp minds without putting forth barely any effort in terms of ideas, which makes him incredibly dangerous, far more dangerous than most people want to admit.
But he's not going to come out and admit he's a proto-fascist. If he did that, chances are very high and likely that he'd lose pretty badly.
So if Sanders gets nominated and Trump gets nominated, it will be Bernie Sanders, the Democratic Socialist, versus Donald Trump, the guy who says he wants to "Make America Great Again", who's favorite book is the Bible, who's self-funding his campaign so he's not controlled by special interests, and so forth.
And inside the DU Bubble, it's still a no-brainer because we all know Donald Trump is completely and utterly full of shit. But we're dealing with an American Electorate who the vast majority does not live in the DU Bubble. And when they hear "Democratic Socialist", a good chunk of them are not going to think of Sweden or Norway. They're going to think he'll somehow be calling us to pay homage to Lenin and Stalin. It's absolutely ridiculous, but it's a reality that we have to deal with.
And they might disliked Donald Trump and his ego and his reality show image, but so long as Trump doesn't come out and admit he's a proto-fascist, they'd still prefer him over the "Democratic Socialist" because of the warped view of what they think that means, and since the other guy likes to talk about America being great and stuff, they'll go with him. It's sad and depressing, but I think an inconvenient truth.
The same goes for everyone else that the Republicans might nominate. Ted Cruz won't admit he's a theocrat. The other Republicans won't admit they're Corporatists. They're just going to play the same old game that they've been playing for years--that they just love America, they're patriots, yada yada yada. And it sounds shallow, but there's a very sizable chunk of the population that will believe it and buy into that false image over someone who's honest about who he is.
I don't like that fact--I actually hate it, because I'm all for being true to one's self. And whenever I take the "Which Candidate do you agree with most" quiz, inevitably I always end up with Senator Sanders. But I fear he'd face an extremely difficult uphill battle because of people's perceptions of what "Democratic Socialist" means combined with the inherent dishonesty of the right.
Not that I don't think Hillary Clinton's not going to have her own issues to deal with. Her name can be polarizing, she's not ideologically ideal to the DU Bubble, and you know...the email thingie, for whatever it's worth (or seen to be worth). But having been in the public eye for over two and a half decades, she's pretty much common knowledge as to where she falls on the spectrum. She's a left of center candidate running for president who's married to a left of center former president who's seeking to succeed a left of center president that she worked for. (And yes, "left of center"--clearly not radically so--is an apt description of her, despite some people's insistence that's she's somehow a closet Republican).
So there's not going to be that sort of shock factor in her going up against a Republican opponent than if someone who self-identifies as a Democratic Socialist might, and that's a clear advantage in my mind. I hate to say it, because I don't think it's fair, but I think a realistic attitude has to be considered here.
I hesitate to even post all of this. I almost never come into GD: P (unless it's to serve on a jury), as I have a lot of respect for both of our candidates and hate the type of nastiness and mudslinging and accusations that have occurred from both sides. But I just have to add my assessment of the situation, take it or leave it. Feel free to agree or disagree.....I just ask that you do so civilly.
NorthCarolina
(11,197 posts)Since it's his "favorite book" he should be well versed in it. Will be interesting no doubt. I suspect Bernie, even though he's a Jew, knows much more about Trump's favorite book than Trump does.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,199 posts)Although a lot of things about Donald Trump I'm surprised about. None in a good way, though.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)Full of horror and terror!
Apparently there is more to fear than fear itself - there is fear of EVERYTHING, for instance ....
Fear of whether Bernie is wearing the correct hairstyle ... Fear of whether farmers will vote for someone from Brooklyn .... Fear if Bernie says one single word, the whole campaign crumbles into a wet spot on a New York sidewalk ...
I am not moved by fear ... I don't care WTF Rubio, Cruz, Trump, or any other wild eyed psychotic drum the GOP say or do ... They possess a dystopian worldview that is ugly to most optimistic, forward thinking people, which is Bernie's bread and butter ...
This kind of thread is what makes me doubt ... The Chicken Little stuff is a downer ... But I have a way to deal with it ...
WI_DEM
(33,497 posts)posting how Hillary just can't win the general election. Maybe it needs to stop on both sides?
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,199 posts)But you personally not wanting to be scared or afraid of a prospect is a far cry from telling millions of other people not to be afraid.
farleftlib
(2,125 posts)TTUBatfan2008
(3,623 posts)...and it will make it difficult for him no doubt about it. But so does the other candidate with high unfavorable ratings and an open FBI investigation. I am not sure either one of these people can win a general election. Shame on the party bosses for not encouraging more people to run such as Biden, Warren, and others.
delrem
(9,688 posts)you've lost.
You've lost. You have no argument left at all.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)He does it with Hillary's nonsense, he does it with news anchors...frustrates the hell of out of them
I call him Jui Jitsu Bernie. It takes a strong and powerful and personally secure leader to do that...just let it fly off his back, and Bernie can do that. He doesn't need to argue and attack. Often he corrects the record, then immediately proceeds on his speech or message. They don't know what to do.
Notice how effective Hillary's attack ads and shenanigans have been. He raises more money each time.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,199 posts)Honestly, not a slam on him at all. He's a good guy with a good message.
But I'm serious--"Democratic Socialist" is going to be a problem come November if he's the nominee. It shouldn't be, but it will.
cali
(114,904 posts)She is to republicans what Bush and Cheney rolled into one is to democrats. She has high unfavorables. Independents really don't like her. She has huge issues on a fundamental: Trust. Her history of scandals may be old news to many but not to those under 30. Young people are not enthused by her. I could go on and on.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,199 posts)But she's not going to have the Democratic Socialist challenge.
Which might seem like an asset from inside the DU Bubble, but outside it's a completely different story.
cali
(114,904 posts)make her more unelectable than the socialism tag.
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)and the Muslim Socialist from Africa still won it by a landslide.
The cold war is over, its not the 1950s anymore. That crap doesn't work in the 21st century.
I hope the GOP tries it again because it will backfire on them big time like it did in 2008.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,199 posts).....despite the rabid claims of the fringe right.
Not that anything's remotely wrong with being a Muslim, Socialist or being born from Africa, mind you.
Having the far right claim you are a Socialist and actually identifying yourself as being a Socialist are two entirely different things altogether. Hell, the far right will claim that anyone in the Democratic Party is a Socialist, even though you and I know that's the case.
gyroscope
(1,443 posts)the only people red-scare mongering will work on are baby boomer republicans who grew up during the cold war and who won't be voting for the dem nominee no matter who it is so what difference does it make.
Tommy_Carcetti
(43,199 posts).....and they'd think you're extolling the virtues of Mao and Stalin.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)fight alongside him and use the tools (including the internet) to defend him. He has told us all along that he will need us. In this to he will need us.