Frustrated female senators say Clinton is victim of sexism

[Red Oak]

"Women serving in the Senate say Hillary Clinton is being subjected to an unfair, sexist double standard on the campaign trail.

Criticisms of Clinton’s tone of voice have become prominent in recent weeks, stirring strong feelings among Senate Democratic women who say they too have had to battle the stereotype of the shrill female.

“She’s often judged by a double standard,” said Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D-Md.), the dean of the Senate women.

“Many of we women feel that there’s a double standard. What’s being said about Hillary is what women have heard for centuries. You’re too loud, you’re too aggressive, you’re too pushy. Why do you want the vote?”

Senate Democratic women have raised their concerns about the public treatment of Clinton in private conversations with their colleagues, with lawmakers keeping close watch on her primary battle with Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.)."

http://thehill.com/news/senate/269341-frustrated-female-senators-say-clinton-is-victim-of-sexism

[Fawke Em]

1. Frustrated female voters say: "Bullshit."

We vote for what's best for us, not with our vaginas.

[KarenS]

3. ^^ This ^^ n/t

[peacebird]

5. Exactly!

[Matariki]

19. Thank you

The bullshit in the OP made me so mad I couldn't write a coherent response.

Clinton's main problems for this feminist, female voter have everything to do with her vacillation on issues that matter to me, on the friends she keeps, and on the sources of her campaign finance. And NOTHING to do with her vagina.

It's insulting.

[cui bono]

21. +1!

I'm so sick of the whining. She's losing ground to a better person and a candidate that has the right goals at the right time. Period.

.

[liberal_at_heart]

71. Thank you! This female voter agrees.

[tk2kewl]

107. there may be a double standard

but if that's what it takes to get people to start reporting on lying and corruption...

[grntuscarora]

132. +1 and a KR!

[Ferd Berfel]

135. LOL - Wish I could K&R a repsonse

[840high]

137. +100

[AzDar]

148. Ayup. This bullshit is TOXIC!

[azmom]

157. Damn straight!

[Skwmom]

161. So true! They are hurting women who are actually experiencing sexism but will accused of

pulling a Clinton (with her fake sexism charges).

[Le Taz Hot]

2. Does this campaign do anything but whine?

[closeupready]

61. LEAVE HILLARY ALONE!!!

[link:http://www.famousfix.com/post/chris-crocker-crying-15561343|

http://www.famousfix.com/post/chris-crocker-crying-15561343

Oh, GAWD, it's so unfair!!!

[tk2kewl]

108. Vote for me 'cause I'm a victim

inspiring message

[Le Taz Hot]

114. I'm sorry, is this the tough woman we're all supposed to

want to vote for? You're either tough or you're a perpetual victim but you sure as hell can't be both

[tk2kewl]

120. why not?

she holds at least two positions on almost every other issue

[Betty Karlson]

141. And when it comes to Wall Street: she holds them simultaniously! eom

[loyalsister]

124. I think it is a campaign strategy

It seems that Clinton victimhood as an ideology grew out Ken Starr's investigations and the myriad of conspiracy theories.

Everytime there is talk of the unprecedented disrespect shown Obama, someone says "Clinton was treated as badly or worse!!"

Did the impeachment solidify it when his poll numbers went up? Is Hillary trying to ride those coat tails NOW? It appears to me as if she is. The fact that shew has had surrogtes using sexist talking points directed at women who don't support her makes it seem absurd and even desperate.

[arcane1]

152. Right? Talk about a "single issue candidate!" n/t

[Karma13612]

153. "cut it out"!! eom

[cali]

4. Quit the fucking whining. She has more advantages than anyone

who has ever run in a democratic primary, barring an incumbent.

[peacebird]

14. The DNC has been completely in the bag for Hillary. The M$M basically ignored Bernie, except to

mock him, until December.
Every possible metric was in her favor, yet Hillary's campaign is struggling to stay afloat. Now they are trying to tamp down expectations in Nevada. Why? They are lying when they try to portray Nevada as lily white and a natural state for Bernie. Besides which is the fact that Bernie won more of the hispanic vote than Hillary did in NH!

[earthside]

20. This is so true.

Good grief.

You know Sanders is winning if this whine is again being run around.

Former First Lady of Arkansas.
Former First Lady of the United States of America.
Former U.S. Senator from New York.
Former U.S. Secretary of State.

More money than 99.999999 percent of all Americans.
Better connections with the power elite of this country and the world than 99.999999999999 percent of all Americans.

One hundred percent name recognition.

And yet they still whine "sexism".

Hillary's problem is that she has been on every side of almost every progressive issue for the past quarter century.
Hillary's problem is that she is a card-carrying member of the elite one percent and she talks like it and acts like it.
She is not one of us.

You know, it is almost pathetic that this even is mentioned anymore ...

[cantbeserious]

29. ^^^ This ^^^

eom

[Krytan11c]

56. Great post!!!

I hope you consider making this an op. I know I'm fairly new, but I would be proud to kick and rec such a thread.

[6chars]

118. Exaggeration

Way too many 9s

More money than 99.9999 percent of all Americans.
Better connections with the power elite of this country and the world than 99.999999999 percent of all Americans.

[earthside]

138. I must have been channelling my inner Herman Cain. n/t

[Ferd Berfel]

136. SHe is the Victum of a Sea Change - because she totally missed it - and shouldn't have.

[m-lekktor]

25. It's beyond sickening. nt

[onecaliberal]

6. I call complete bullshit on that. Sew the fucking sponsor logos on your sweaters already

It's gone so far beyond obvious now it's just pathetically sickening.

[Trajan]

7. Yeah .. it's just like back in the day . .

When Eleanor Roosevelt tried to stop lower class students from getting free education ...

Oh wait ... I'll get back with ya ...

[JackRiddler]

42. Heh.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

8. Who's been criticizing Clinton's tone of voice?

Cause I've been watching a LOT of political shows this primary, and haven't heard anyone mention it.

[djean111]

96. This was on their pre-set list of things to yell "SEXISM" about. Doesn't matter if it is

not happening; and, of course, for me - it would not negate her fondness for war and fracking and cluster bombs and so on. That's the weird thing - is her campaign really convinced that no one cares about the issues? Bizarre.

[dsc]

134. really?

Here is a link to the google search for Clinton yelling. Notice that there are four stories about her being criticized for yelling that come from other than her campaign.

https://www.google.com/search?q=clinton+yelling&oq=clinton+yelling&aqs=chrome..69i57.8822j0j8&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=0&ie=UTF-8

this was one search on a routine database.

[NCTraveler]

9. This is a fact only debatable by MRA members. nt.

[cui bono]

38. SEXIST!!! So now women don't have their own voice?

Why are you trying to silence women?

Why don't you think we should have an opinion?

Why do you think we are a monolith and can't think for ourselves?

Why are you telling us what to think?

Pretty sexist if you ask me.

.

[NCTraveler]

43. I have no clue what you are talking about. lol nt.

[cui bono]

53. You clearly said only MRAs would disagree with this yet there are plenty of strong women who do.

Why are we not allowed to think that according to you?

You don't allow for women to have a difference of opinion. And if we do, we must be misogynists. Why is that?

.

[NCTraveler]

66. If a woman wants to argue that Clinton isn't the target of sexist attacks...

Let her have at it.

"Why are we not allowed to think that according to you? "

You seem to think I have some magical powers that simply do not exist. You can think how you would like. I have not attempted to stop you.

The only people who could argue against this are MRA members and a select few special others.

There simply is no intelligent argument that Clinton isn't at the end of sexist attacks. None.

[cui bono]

73. Clearly you haven't read this thread. And if you care about feminism at all you would stop

enabling women to make a mockery of it for political gain.

And you would stop trying to silence disagreement by making a blanket statement that anyone who disagrees is either an MRA, "special" or unintelligent.

Way to insult strong and independent thinking women. And you think you are standing up for feminism when, in fact, you are practicing sexism yourself by not allowing women to have a difference of opinion and think for themselves without hurling insults at us for doing so. SMH

.

[NCTraveler]

78. Clinton faces sexism on the campaign trail.

That is simply stating the obvious. To think otherwise would truly be stupid. There is no intellectual counter-argument outside of the MRA thought process. At all.

I have not tried to silence anyone no matter how many times you keep repeating that falsehood. The only people who could be insulted by my comments are those who believe Clinton has not been subject to sexism on the campaign trail. I have no problem with that.

I have no clue how you can take offense at any of what I have typed.

[BlueMTexpat]

91. A support K & R

to you, NC Traveler!

[zazen]

111. yes, she's being held more accountable for her corruption than a man would

I agree.

She is held to a higher standard w/r/t her corruption and she's also subject to the usual things like "strident," "shrill," etc. This feminist doesn't disagree.

But greater scrutiny of her corruption than male candidates with similar histories doesn't entitle her to the presidency, and Bernie Sanders' policies are far more favorable to millions of more women than her corporatist, austerity, pro-interventionist approaches to problems.

We can support Sanders and call out sexism simultaneously.

[Gore1FL]

59. Who knew so many women were MRA members

Or were you just being stupid?

[NCTraveler]

68. I believe I am spot on.

Stupid would be claiming Clinton doesn't face sexism on the campaign trail.

[Gore1FL]

72. Stupid is claiming that women who don't support Clinton are MRA.

You sound as desperate as the campaign making such delusional claims.

[NCTraveler]

101. "Stupid is claiming that women who don't support Clinton are MRA."

Seems you are replying to the wrong person. I simply can't make sense of your post considering what I have typed.

[Gore1FL]

110. No, you posted your laughable attack above. Link provided in main text.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1239190

It's probably good that you running from your previous stupid statement, though. We probably need to get you past denial, though.

[NCTraveler]

113. Please show me the quote that brought you to this thought.

"Stupid is claiming that women who don't support Clinton are MRA."

It's not at the link you provided, nor did I ever say anything even close. Lets clear up where you went wrong there first.

Your claim:

"Stupid is claiming that women who don't support Clinton are MRA."

Where did I ever state such a thing. You are flat out lying about me.

[Gore1FL]

115. Already linked. You said "This is a fact only debatable by MRA members. nt." in the title.

There are Women debating this on this thread prior to your post.

Your dishonest denial is pretty sad. You should really concern yourself with being more honest.

[NCTraveler]

121. Thank you for highlighting the quote.

It goes completely against the claim you made against me when you falsely put words in my mouth.

"Stupid is claiming that women who don't support Clinton are MRA."

As I said, I never made such a claim and you simply can't back up your claim.

[Gore1FL]

126. There are women who already posted, ergo my complaint stands. Your denial is embarrassing. n/t

[NCTraveler]

127. Sounds good to me.

Things NCTraveler has never said.

"Stupid is claiming that women who don't support Clinton are MRA." Gore1FL

I just want to make clear that is your quote and not mine. I don't support your quote in any way.

[Gore1FL]

142. There are neutron stars less dense that you.

If you want to deny what your post implied, feel free. Those of us equipped with the ability to apply logic will realize you are full of shit.

TTFN

[NCTraveler]

143. You made a claim about me and can't back it up.

"Stupid is claiming that women who don't support Clinton are MRA." Gore1FL

That is not my quote and I don't want to be associated with making it. It needs to be clear it is your quote.

I have called you no names nor have I made any insinuations other than you are knowingly misquoting me.

[Gore1FL]

146. I can and did. I used the mouse wheell and scrolled up to your comment

Then I applied facts and logic and can now determine that you are either a liar or illogical. I am, however, willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

[NCTraveler]

150. Sorry I struck such a nerve.

No clue why. My position is clear.

[Gore1FL]

156. Yes. All too.

You didn't so much strike a nerve so much. You are simply trying to troll by being applying generally stupid denial tactics. At first I actually thought you didn't get it. Now I realize otherwise.

TTFN

[NCTraveler]

158. No tactic.

Just not going to let you make things up about me. This really got to you. Interesting.

I simply don't want to be associated with your quote as if I'm somehow a part of your thought process here.

"Stupid is claiming that women who don't support Clinton are MRA." Gore1FL

I fully agree that it would be foolish to claim women who don't support Clinton as MRA. No clue where you got the idea of anything else.

[Gore1FL]

159. Nothing has gotten to me. I was a little annoyed that I have to hand hold you through logic.

But when I discovered you were a troll without a bridge, I realized that was your whole point.

I will admit, at first I simply thought you were being positively clueless Now that I realize you are just being a tool, I will use you as such. I am simply here to bump the thread each time you deny saying what anyone can simply scroll up and read.


That way, more people become aware of your tactics, and the the thread gets bumped. It's sort of a win-win for me!

[NCTraveler]

160. Truly glad this tactic makes you feel like a winner.

I completely disagree with the quote you have attributed to me.

Then again, you are the only one to has said it. That being said, we are all more productive when we feel like winners. Good on you.

[Gore1FL]

162. Bumping for the troll! n/t

[delrem]

145. You are correct.

As you linked, the person posted:
"This is a fact only debatable by MRA members. nt."
When in fact, under this very OP there are many many women debating the so called "fact".

Jeez ....

By the way, isn't that Bernie an *angry* *old man*? hmmmm?
He's always *lecturing*, y'know, *Bernie-Splaining*. And those *Bernie Bro's* sure are a misogynist, sexist, white supremacist bunch, like *MRA members*, don't ya think? Poor Hillary, having to face all of that. But she's a fighter! She has the scars to prove it!

[BillZBubb]

116. They can run, but they cannot hide.

Team Hillary has been running a sexist campaign for the past several weeks with Albright, Steinem and Co. So, having been burned they trot out the "we're the real victims" canard.

[Duckhunter935]

10. ah, everything is sexism, lol

Maybe people just actually look at the person and not the woman parts

[shadowrider]

11. Personally,

I would much, much rather Hillary and Bernie concentrate on issues important to Americans and quit the whining and infighting. I feel the same way about the Republican side.

Insults, whining, "he said this about me", "she said that about me", doesn't do America one damn bit of good if the issues aren't discussed.

My opinion. YMMV.

[Matariki]

22. False equivalency

Sanders isn't doing that. His supporters are calling out lies where they're told, and that is different.

[shadowrider]

50. Point taken n/t

[cui bono]

47. That's why Bernie is so great. He IS concentrating on the issues.

You seem to lump them both together, what has Bernie done that has been the equivalent to crying sexism - more than once now?

.

[shadowrider]

54. Point taken n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. So she is seriously going to run on the I am a woman, it's my turn now, plank?

really?

As I told an older voter who is voting for her becuase Clinton is a woman and it is my turn to have a woman president, that is not a political agenda.

[BlueMTexpat]

15. Oh, nadin,

you are better than that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Actually I heard this in the flesh

from a local party insider. And that was my reaction. This is no political platform to run on.

Now I see it has made it to the hill. Your mileage will vary as to what this bad talking point means.

[BlueMTexpat]

24. The thing is that

it is NOT ONLY because Hillary is a woman that she has such support - and such comments are made.

It is that - if Hillary were male - much of the criticism, especially the most petty - would not even factor into the equation.

You KNOW that. Every woman on The Hill has experienced the same treatment in their own elections, although never quite as vitriolic for most.

Please don't be disingenuous on this point. You really are better than that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

30. Well. given I have been told this exact line

"It's our turn to have a woman president." And when you press for what more is in this, they go blank, I am sorry, this is NO PLATFORM TO RUN ON. And if this was not a party insider who should know better...

The fact that now it's spread to the Hill only tells me the campaign is in real trouble.

NV is in play, and it is an eternity until the SC primaries in political terms.

It is up to her and the campaign to save it, but this line will not impress people. Well it will, a very specific demographic.

And women do not go to the Hill and whine about it, because they know this is a losing strategy by the way.

[BlueMTexpat]

57. Speaking fact is

hardly "whining."

There's a stereotype right there.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. Actually my dear there are certain facts that professional pols

do not speak off, because they reveal a certain level of weakness.

This happens to be one of them. You do not emphasize what a certain percentage of the electorate might deem to be a weakness. When you do, you reveal your campaign is in trouble.

It is an amazing exercise to sit down with political strategists, who will explain the finer points of campaigning and convincing others to vote for you. This is an absolute no-no, and when pols do it, they reveal a certain core weakness to their campaign.

And when supporters cannot give you anything more than gender, or race or skin color, or religion, you are in trouble.

Some of us vote on policy... rare birds that we are. Gender is no policy.

[BlueMTexpat]

81. I agree that gender is no policy,

but calling out sexism when and where it is found is hardly wrong.

Always enjoy seeing your posts, nadin, even when we disagree, as here.

[JonLeibowitz]

34. Nadin was talking about a conversation with a single voter--not characterizing Clinton's base.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. That single voter was a member of the inner ciricle of the local D establisment

which makes it slightly worst.

But that voter fits the older, white, woman demographic that from exit polls seems to still support Clinton. And one reason given to pollsters, is that she is a woman. That is no plank to run on.

[Matariki]

26. I have friends, who I respect, supporting Clinton for the same reason

The mind boggles. That's NOT what feminism is about.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. I almost expect to hear Albright say those famous words again

it was cutesey on the side of a Starbucks cup... in a campaign, not so much.

[cui bono]

80. Someone on here, who has purported to be a staunch feminist, said just last night

that electing a woman is plenty change from the status quo. Crazy. It's like people really don't understand what POTUS is or why we choose them.

.

[Matariki]

128. That's a good way of putting it.

I admit, if the two candidates were pretty much exactly the same - on policy, integrity, and so forth - I would very likely favor the woman because it would balance something which is long over due. It would be a sort of affirmative action vote.

But these two candidates are most certainly not the same on policy, integrity, and so forth - so voting for one of them based on their genitals is diametrically opposite of what I understand Feminism to be.

[cui bono]

129. Exactly. n/t

[BlueMTexpat]

13. These women are also

SuperDs and are very likely digging in their heels for Clinton even more as a result of this double standard. I know that I personally am.

Frankly, I have never - ever - seen such a stream of vitriolic OTT posts on a Democratic website towards a Democratic candidate that have been anywhere near what I see posted daily towards Hillary here.

People can deny it or try to justify it all they want, but sexism is indeed a major part of it.

[Red Oak]

23. I don't think so, but it is just one opinion

Take away all the speaking fees and suspicious contributions, take away all the nasty politics of the past Democratic fights, show me some good judgment on things like trumped up wars of convenience, show me some leadership on trade agreements that are ripping the middle class apart like NAFTA, China's admission to the WTO and TPP and I would GLADLY vote for Hillary.

However, Hillary is a package deal and her gender isn't enough to overcome the past, most often wrong, "hard choices".

I would LOVE to have seen Elizabeth Warren run, but she chose not to.

I'm still hopeful Senator Warren will run as the VP candidate for Bernie and that Elizabeth is the successor President to Bernie.

[BlueMTexpat]

35. Hillary is blamed for EVERY bad happening

in the world since 1993. Sorry, I just don't buy it.

[Red Oak]

36. Please give me a list of the good things she has done.

I know of the Children's Health Insurance Program.

What else?

[BlueMTexpat]

49. Here is one list.

How many more do you need?

You don’t have to like Hillary Clinton or her ideas. I get it. She’s a Democrat, a progressive (in most eyes), and conservatives don’t like that. However, you cannot say she does not have any accomplishments. Here are just a few:

- Even though her major initiative, the Clinton healthcare plan, failed (due to Republican obstruction), you cannot deny that it laid ground for what we have today, the Affordable Healthcare Act, something Clinton supports and would continue.
- She played a leading role in the development of State Children’s Health Insurance Program, which provides the much-needed state support for children whose parents cannot afford nor provide them with adequate healthcare coverage.
- She was also instrumental in the creation of the Adoption and Safe Families Act and the Foster Care Independence Act.
- Successfully fought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and asthma at the National Institute of Health (NIH).
- She spearheaded investigations into mental illness plaguing veterans of the Gulf War; we now have a term for it – Gulf War Syndrome.
- At the Department of Justice, she helped create the office on Violence Against Women.
- She was instrumental in securing over $21 billion in funding for the World Trade Center redevelopment.
- Took a leading role in the investigation of health consequences of first responders and drafted the first bill to compensate and offer the health services our first responders deserve (Clinton’s successor in the Senate, Kirsten Gillibrand, passed the bill).
- Was instrumental in working out a bi-partisan compromise to address civil liberty abuses for the renewal of the U.S. Patriot Act.
- Proposed a revival of the New Deal-era Home Owners’ Loan Corporation to help homeowners refinance their mortgages in the wake of the 2008 financial disaster.
- Was a major proponent of sensible diplomacy which brought about a ceasefire between Hamas and Israel, and brokered human rights with Burma.
- Oversaw free trade agreements with our allies such as Panama, Colombia, and South Korea.
- Was the most traveled Secretary of State to date.
- The Clinton Foundation, founded by her and her husband, has improved the living conditions for nearly 400 million people in over 180 countries through its Initiative program.

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/04/13/heres-a-list-of-hillary-clintons-accomplishments-so-quit-saying-she-doesnt-have-any/

[Red Oak]

60. Thank you for this

I wanted to see her actual accomplishments and see how she supported the middle class.

I also wanted to see the depth of leadership and vision.

It is a good, and telling, list.

In my opinion, she is obviously very smart and probably a phenomenal administrator. She made a great Secretary of State.

[BlueMTexpat]

79. You are most welcome.

I agree that we Dems have two excellent candidates for President.

[closeupready]

67. No she's not, and your bias in her favor doesn't help

sell her to people who honestly think her judgment is abominable.

She's blamed for a lot, and she's blamed for lots of bad decisions she's made. It comes with the territory, and if she doesn't like it, she can quit.

[BlueMTexpat]

83. LOL, she won't.

But keep hoping.

[closeupready]

106. lol, okay, I got your number.

Glad you're enjoying yourself!

[elljay]

28. I disagree

I have absolutely no doubt that she is subjected to sexism and judged by a double standard. As a professional attorney, I have personally experienced how assertive and competent women fall behind cutesy, non-threatening women in the corporate world. However, I don't see this double standard being applied by Bernie supporters; it is applied by the media and the Republicans. I don't see Bernie supporters who have made their choice because of her gender. We do not support her because we have compared the candidates' policies fairly and prefer Bernie's. Some have issues with her character, which is also not gender-based. She should definitely call out sexism where it truly exists, but not use it falsely to smear her opponent.

[BlueMTexpat]

51. We'll have to agree to

disagree then.

[peacebird]

32. "Sexism is indeed a major part of it" - I think it's just that people really do not like her

For me it has nothing to do with sexism - and I say this as a 58 yo woman who was an engineer.
For me it is the laughter as she tosses off " we came, we saw, he died" hahahahahaha!
It is the stupidity of lying about sniper fire at the airport when you knew the ceremony was taped by many news organizations. And then tossing out the old chestnut 'whenever a place is too dangerous to send the president, they send the first lady'.
It is the nonstop flipflops - what IS her true belief?
It is her close relationships with Kissinger, and Trump.
It is her support for fracking.
It is her ties to Wall$treet.
It is her connection to The Family - a group that reveres Adolf Hitler for his political power.
It is her support for clusterbombs.
I do not trust her to put the interests of the American people first and foremost.

I do not trust her at all. She lies too easily and seems to have no core beliefs, except that she is owed the presidency.

It is not sexist at all, it is merely that I find her to be noxious.

[BlueMTexpat]

58. We can agree to disagree.

And that's OK.

[dragonfly301]

100. totally agree with you

I also am 58 and female. Bill Clinton spoke about Scalia on Sat night and said that what he liked about Scalia is that he was always true to himself, he knew what he was for and didn't hide it. When I heard him say that I thiught that I haven't a clue what Hillary is really for because she tells everyone what she thinks they want to hear. I don't trust her to govern in a manner that will be supportive to my interests.

[Larkspur]

63. I am a women and I oppose Hillary because she chose to be corrupted by

Big Money interests and I do not believe that she will fight for my economic opportunities. I'm an American Tech worker and she supports increasing the number of H1b visa applications, which are used by her donors to import indentured servants from India, China, Russia, etc to replace American Tech workers because they can pay those indentured servants much less than American citizens.

President Obama also favors increasing H1b visas and that's why I'm not enthralled with him either.

[BlueMTexpat]

75. You know, you

seem to be blaming Hillary for a LOT of what other people have actually done and for a lot of different reasons.

"chose to be corrupted by Big Money interests" = total B*** S*** but it's a grand TP.

The H1b visa applications issue is but one of many that involves strategic foreign partnerships, which are absolutely necessary in a globalized world. Do I particularly favor increasing the cap? Not really, but the issue is more complicated than simply that.

It's true that Bernie is trying to raise wages of H1b workers in an attempt to discourage companies from hiring such workers, but that has so far been unsuccessful and is likely to continue to be unsuccessul given the current political environment.

[liberal_at_heart]

104. big money corrupting government and H1b visas are policy issues.

They are not sexism issues. I am a woman I disagree with Hillary's stance on big banks and on H1b visas. That does not make me sexist.

[DrDan]

82. agree with every word - they must be reading the posts here

[BlueMTexpat]

85. At long last!

thanks for the support, DrDan!

[DrDan]

94. she is one strong woman having endured this for 60+ years - she has my vote

[BlueMTexpat]

99. And mine ...

in case there was any doubt.

[betsuni]

98. +1 (you are a saint for engaging -- so many stupid comments here, I need an aspirin)

[BlueMTexpat]

103. Hardly a saint!

But I do think that I'm done with this thread. Thanks for the support.

[snagglepuss]

125. If Liz Warren were running, she'd win hands down. Hillary wouldn't

have a hope in hell and what would her excuse be if she lost to another woman? Hillary's predicament has nothing to do with sexism. Hillary lost all credibility once she and Bill decided they would cash in before she entered the Oval Office.

And her cashing in is just one of many solid reasons people reject her, such as her decisions as SoS, her uncritical stance toward Israel, her admiration of Kissinger to name just a few.

[SheilaT]

17. No. We're holding her to the exact same standard.

Tell the truth. Be consistent. Don't lie about things that can be easily checked. Like dodging bullets at some airport.

Did I mention tell the truth?

[BeyondGeography]

18. Oy

The candidate in question is many times more advantaged than disadvantaged. It's worth pointing out some sexist bullshit that she faces (like her clothes, her clothes!), but saying that she shouts at times is not sexist. Because she does.

[ebayfool]

163. I can't count the times her supporters have carried on about Bernie screaming...

so I don't think that charge is one they should be 'screaming' sexism about!

[Nanjeanne]

27. The more they stress this - the more desparate it sounds

Is there sexism in politics? Yes. Is that what is fueling what is happening to Clinton's campaign. No freaking way.

You can't present yourself as a fighter who is strong and capable and then cry sexism every time you appear to be losing voters. And bringing attention to things like too loud, too aggressive, too pushy - isn't really a way to convince people you are capable and strong. Double standard? What about Sanders - loud, shouty, messy, cranky? I don't hear him complaining about this.

Just go out there and be yourself. Say what you believe in. Convince people to vote for you. Voters either will follow you or they won't. And it won't be because of any sexist double standard.

[CharlotteVale]

45. ^^THIS^^

[nadinbrzezinski]

69. There is a small measure of it

but the problem is when they emphasize it this way, they only reveal utter weakness to their cause, Elect me becuase I am a woman, is in no way a plank that will sell in City Council, why the hell does she think it will sell for POTUS/

[HooptieWagon]

31. Horseshit. Warren would be getting strong support.

We're more than ready for a woman president, just not 'that' one.

[Lorien]

90. Amen to that!

I wouldn't vote for Palin either. But Warren? Hell yeah!

[cui bono]

33. JFC, I wish women would stop setting back feminism and trying to exploit it

for political gain.

Sexism is a real issue and they are making a mockery of it to do what? Get a pity vote? What the hell do they hope to accomplish with this tactic?

Is she going to come out of meetings with heads of state whining about someone criticizing how she spoke? Is she going to whine about sexism when the GOP blocks every move?

Nobody is helping her with this tactic. It only hurts and makes her look weaker. And it makes feminism look like a silly little gnat when in fact it is a big problem.

.

[Matariki]

44. +1

yep.

[MisterP]

122. "it makes feminism look like a silly little gnat"--BANG! right there!

it's like Marcotte and Valenti's endless piffle, or this Salon piece about how making a Kenny G joke about Clinton is cisheteronormative tyranny

not only does it make sex and gender into mere wings of a campaign, mere bludgeons to shame opponents for having dongles, but it turns gender issues into some nonsensical inquisition about whether you fart in the approved manner

it's like those "radicals" in Los Angeles that pay themselves $300K a year to keep transit-riding riffraff out of Beverly Hills and Westwood and say that a bus is racist if it's too long: it turns the whole issue into a punchline

[Tom Rinaldo]

37. Too often (not always) when Hillary raises her voice the outrage sounds staged

I believe that she is in fact outraged by many of the things that she says she is. Especially on social issues, including racism. On economic matters though that deep sense of authenticity does not always come through to a degree that matches the intensity of her speaking voice.

When Bernie shouts the sound sometimes grates on me over time - but that is offset for me by the fact that his utmost sincerity about what he is shouting about for me is never in doubt.

[Orsino]

39. Undoubtedly so.

I would love to believe that all Sanders supporters are persuaded by the excellence of his agenda, but it just ain't so.

I don't know how to put any numbers on the phenomenon, except to call out sexist double standards as we see them.

[cali]

52. I'll freely admit I don't support him solely on the issues

Its about character as well.

[tularetom]

41. I'll say one thing for Obama, he doesn't whine like this

For seven years he has endured almost constant slights, snubs, disrespect and outright attacks because of his race, yet, I have never heard him utter one word in complaint.

[frylock]

48. The Victim President.

[Sheepshank]

55. When the discussion by BS supporters is about outfits, and by passes so called issues

There is an easy Example of sexism.

In red Utah, I spoke with a Dem. This male business owner said that he really liked Hillary, but cannot vote for a female as CoC. Sexism, it's all over. 25+ years of RW talking points embedded in the American psyche and repeated here on a Dem site, it's all sorts of sickening.

[cali]

87. Oh fucking please. Bernie supporters don't give a shit

about her outfits or hair. You don't see it on DU or kos or reddit. You Hillary supporters want to make everything about sexism.

[Mike__M]

64. I must point out that

If Clinton had Morgan Freeman's voice, I'd still vote for Sanders' vision.

[Zorra]

65. It is frightening how these Democratic leaders don't seem to understand that

the issue of standards in this case is not gender, but integrity.

[arcane1]

155. I suspect the leaders know exactly what the problem is, which is why they resorted to this n/t

[Eric J in MN]

70. Bernie Sanders gets criticized for shouting. There is no double-standard. NT

NT

[Punkingal]

74. It does not help her to talk about sexism, or have her supporters do so.

It just seems like whining to me, and trying to have it both ways. I want a GOOD president, regardless of their gender.

[Kalidurga]

76. too loud, too aggressive, too pushy...those are some of my favorite things in a person like...

Elizabeth Warren for example.

[sadoldgirl]

77. Interesting take from successful women.

I know my representative (woman) seems to have no
trouble to keep her seat, and never heard her complain
about sexism.

On the other hand, while canvassing in my small
precinct a lot of people - still neutral - voiced a
distinct distrust in the Clintons. Note the plural,
please, not just HRC.

[Lorien]

84. Frustrated voters say that they want Hillary to make an issue based case for herself

instead of making her entire campaign about her vagina. Seriously people, if all you have is finger wagging at left of center voters who don't wish to vote for a "no we can't" right wing authoritarian, then your candidate is very weak indeed. Drop the "victim of sexism" act and make an issue based case for her already!

[HassleCat]

86. Are these the same Democrats?

Who point out that Bernie is cranky, whiny, speaks with a heavy accent, waves his finger, scolds, etc?

[djean111]

102. You do understand that you are sexist for even pointing that out, right?

That's the way it goes, it seems.

[kath]

88. Bullshit.

This is a great article: http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/02/hillary-clintons-internet-supporters-desperately-w.html

I especially liked this part:

If Hillary were a man, she wouldn’t stand a snowball’s chance in hell of securing the Democratic nomination in 2016. None. And there’s not a serious pundit in the country who would argue otherwise.

Why? It’s simple—we wouldn’t have this obscuring gender fog, and we’d see her for the neo-liberal warhawk that she really is. The mood of the Democratic party and of the American left generally is favorable to progressive politics, which is why Hillary continues to adopt many of Bernie’s issues as the campaign rolls along. Hillary leads nationally by about 20 points with women, and trails by about the same amount with men. Without her female base, she’d have no path to the nomination. And if she were a man, she would lose that female base and have to run on her policies and experience alone.

How would that go? Well, how did it go for the other centrist male Democratic candidates this year? Anyone remember Lincoln Chafee or Jim Webb?

[bowens43]

89. LOL so theyre playing that card now? No surprise there.......

[Blue_In_AK]

92. As a woman,

I'm kind of tired of hearing about how Hillary is a woman and therefore should be immune from criticism. Bernie sometimes seems grumpy, he yells, he points his finger, his face clearly mirrors his inner thoughts. Some people think he's an old curmudgeon. Does he whine if people say he's a grumpy old man? I sure haven't heard it.

[TwilightGardener]

93. It is possible that sometimes people just don't like you, male or female.

Sometimes people just don't trust you, male or female. Sometimes they just don't like your positions, your attitude, your behavior, or the stuff that comes out of your mouth--male or female. There's tons of women I don't like--if they were men...I still wouldn't like them.

[Carolina]

139. Excellent post

So true, too. We don't like her because we don't trust her. And we don't trust her because she's vacuous and changes her positions with the political winds. Her judgment in office has been poor (IWR, Libya, Syria) and she runs nasty, dirty campaigns. I didn't like her in 1992, though I supported him strongly. Now I loathe her. As for him, he was duplicitous in his policies (I didn't care about his sex life) and now demeans and disgraces himself daily in an effort to get back to the WH through her.

Her gender is not her problem. Her record is!

[temporary311]

95. Wonder where all this was

when Carol Mosley Braun was running. Was it there and I just didn't notice it? I don't remember any exhortations to vote for the female candidate in that primary.

[no_hypocrisy]

97. As a corollary, if I don't support Bernie Sanders and I'm Jewish, am I antisemitic

or a self-hating Jew?

[FBaggins]

105. How do they feel about being called "frustrated females"? nt

[chervilant]

109. Well, durn.

This "sexism" issue seems facile, so the "whining" accusation doesn't surprise me. Now, icing that sexism cake with the condescension from both Steinem and Albright -- well, her campaign is on thin ice for many, MANY feminists, both female AND male. (Please pardon the mixed metaphors.)

GO, BERNIE!!!

#NotMeUs

[99Forever]

112. Bullshit.

[mcar]

117. I agree

There is a real double standard. Many on DU will disagree but this is reality.

[longship]

119. Rubbish! Utter rubbish!

The upcoming election is not about the gender of the candidate. It is about the positions of the candidates.

This is such a childish argument that it barely deserves a response other than "rubbish".

And I will gladly support and vote for Hillary Clinton if she gets the nomination, so folks can set aside personal attacks.

If Democrats do not unite this year, we will lose.

Please, children. Behave!

[Arazi]

123. They need to read Shasta Willistons piece immediately

http://www.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/2016/02/10/23553077/guest-editorial-young-women-dont-owe-clinton

Just a small snip of a truly excellent explanation for these "frustrated" female senators

Snip

Here's the truth: Young women owe us nothing. They do not owe Clinton their hard-won vote, and they do not owe we feminists of a certain age a period of servitude. The game has changed for all of us, and the young women I know are prouder, stronger, and frankly less brittle than we were. They know things that we fought to imagine—like the inevitability of a female President—and they will not vote for a candidate they do not believe represents them simply because their cavalier elders demand loyalty.
They have, in fact, become exactly what we might have hoped for our daughters and granddaughters: confident of their equality. We fought to convince ourselves and our country that we should be equal. They were born with the message that they are equal, and they are fighting for the implementation of that equality.

They struggle for jobs not because women cannot work, but because jobs are scarce. They talk about intersectional feminism (a term coined after I graduated), and can’t imagine meaningful progress without coalitions of overlapping interests and diverse viewpoints. They recognize lack of access to health care as a major obstacle to reproductive freedom.

Gloria Steinem was 20 years old in 1955, and it is likely that in her pre-feminist world girls did follow boys' interests. I hope that this new generation will view her statement in that cultural context. Steinem is one of the heroes who moved culture so effectively that her work eventually outgrew her. We should all be so successful!

Today's young feminists will not vote for Clinton for her gender, or to repay a debt they did not incur. Why should they? They want to know what she will do for them, and her answers are falling short for many. Her campaign refers to the black vote as a "firewall," while black voters increasingly question what she's actually offering. Young people want to know where their jobs and health care will come from, and she counsels patience for moderate changes.

When asked how her Presidency would differ from a third Obama term, she laughed and said, “The first woman President would be quite a change.”

I cringed when she said that, and realized I no longer want her to be the first female President. As a feminist of a certain age, I feel some guilt. It is our turn. We have waited a very, very long time for our turn. Many of us—certainly including Clinton—have spent our entire lives working for it. As a feminist who is just barely of a certain age, my debt has been called due, and I feel the weight of my elders’ reprobation.

Snip
.

[Matariki]

130. This is NOT Feminism

Voting based on someone's gender is not feminist. It's just not. This is very disappointing.

[Smarmie Doofus]

131. Give this 1971 meme a fucking rest, already.

>>>“Many of we women feel that there’s a double standard. What’s being said about Hillary is what women have heard for centuries. You’re too loud, you’re too aggressive, you’re too pushy. Why do you want the vote?” >>>>

Riiiiiiight.

Actually I haven't heard *anyone* say this about her.

I've heard people say she's dishonest, two-faced, sleazy, manipulative and a war-monger.

All of which, I agree, applies to Clinton and applies as well to any *male* politician that I would go out of my way to vote and work against.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

133. Was it sexism when Teddy Roosevelt was accused of the same?

What about Bernie? Is he too loud, too pushy, too aggressive? Is it sexism?

I don't vote based on personality or gender.

[Betty Karlson]

140. It's not about loud, aggressive, pushy. It's about being too far to the right.

It's about voting to start the war that gave us (ultimately) ISIS. It's about Wall Street connections. It's about lying, flipflopping, about opposing gay rights until she reluctantly had to change her position, about touting TPP until it became a campaign liability for her, and so on.

It's about issues, eminent senators. Not about ovaries. The 20th century is over, and your rhetoric is tone-deaf spin.

[jfern]

144. What's sexism is all the pressure they're putting on Warren to endorse Hillary

just because she's a woman

[Vinca]

147. If there's one thing I hate women to do it's to play the "victim" card.

I think the tone of her voice is why she's turning younger voters off. Too reminiscent of the "angry mom" voice. You might have thought sometime between 2008 and now she might have consulted a voice coach. She has no natural talent when it comes to "politicking." And it shows.

[DefenseLawyer]

149. True or not true, this is bad politics.

You can't claim Hillary is best because she is the toughest and then bemoan that she is criticized "unfairly". It's a mixed message. Gotta pick one.

[in_cog_ni_to]

151. ...

Bullshit. The gender card is getting old and it's ridiculous and INSULTING.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[hifiguy]

154. Horseshit.

She's welded at the hip to Wall Street, the MIC and the likes of Henry Fucking Kissinger. And a flip-flopper, insincere, corrupt as hell and not a very good candidate.

Just maybe THOSE are her problems.

[jillan]

164. That comment alone sets Women's Rights back decades.

Women's rights = Gender Equality

Quit whining!! You are embarrassing to women like myself that fought for equality.