2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum"Hanging on Street Corners"
In the black forum, the phrase 'hanging out on street corners' was used to describe what black kids do. That is a stereotype.
I have no idea how Bernie sees us. I am dissappointed to see him use that type of phrase.
jfern
(5,204 posts)Because what we will do is say, instead of giving tax breaks to millionaires, we are going to create millions of jobs for low-income kids so theyre not hanging out on street corners, he said. Were going to make sure that those kids stay in school or are able get a college education. So I think that when you give low-income kids, African-American, white, Latino kids, the opportunities to get their lives together, they are not going to end up in jail. Theyre going to end up in the productive economy, which is where we want them.
http://whotv.com/2016/02/11/bernie-sanders-i-would-absolutely-improve-race-relations/
bravenak
(34,648 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)Bernie wants to address the racism against blacks in finding jobs and and allow people who want to a job to get one. More jobs means less poverty and less crime.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)than other races. Except probably Native Americans. But I'm sure with whites, unemployment can raise poverty and lead to more crime, too.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)earthshine
(1,642 posts)You think he meant to be insulting? You are the one making it something offensive.
Perogie
(687 posts)Please provide proof that creating equal opportunity doesn't help with race relations.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Now prove your case.
Perogie
(687 posts)You do know that slavery is the opposite of equal opportunity.
So again, please provide proof that equal opportunity doesn't help race relations.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)We needed passes to leave. Why were race relations not good then? We were not on corners.
Perogie
(687 posts)Good Job
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Please try to keep up
earthshine
(1,642 posts)You need to look within yourself see why you are upset.
Seems to me you're the one trying to light a fire under race relations.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)You just did what he did I see why
uponit7771
(90,359 posts)PatrickforO
(14,587 posts)to all kids. Hang around on street corners is one euphemism. Another, courtesy of the Bureau of Labor Statistics and US Census is 'idle youth,' which are defined as being neither in-school, nor working. And low income kids tend to be 'idle,' but Bernie is saying that if we make sure that opportunity is present, then many will take advantage of that opportunity and so escape lives of chronic unemployment and poverty.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)It was because he had said he would do BETTER than Obama on race.
That is not an answer to how he would improve race relations, that's a solution to teen unemployment, which is not a CAUSE of racism, but a RESULT.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)made similar comments about kids hanging out on street corners because they have nothing better to do. Think of all that wasted potential... Bernie certainly is.
Photo-gate was a colossal bust, so it's onto imaginary stereotypes.
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)SMC22307
(8,090 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Damn you!
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)what city?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)glad to clear that up
angrychair
(8,733 posts)Your a wonderful person but this is a ridiculous attack.
You have every right to hold Bernie to task for issues that are important to you. Two things:
1) it would appear a lot more intellectually honest if you held your candidate of choice to such a high standard.
2) If the candidate in question was really actually doing what you accused them of doing. You stated:
"In the black forum, the phrase 'hanging out on street corners' was used to describe what black kids do. That is a stereotype."
That is not at all what be said. He stated:
"Were going to make sure that those kids stay in school or are able get a college education. So I think that when you give low-income kids, African-American, white, Latino kids, the opportunities to get their lives together, they are not going to end up in jail."
In that sentence, he talked about "school" as in primary, secondary and college. He is talking about jobs. He is talking about kerping them out of jail. He is talking about low-income kids with little opportunity. He is talking about black children...white children and Latino children.
He has used the term "institutional racism" when talking about the justice and prison system, housing and employment.
This issue is a serious issue for the black community but it is an issue that impacts low-income people of any race.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)IT was a BLACK FORUM
Not a LOW INCOME FORUM
THE QUESTION was how is he going to fix RACE RELATIONS better than Obama.
The answer was to get LOW INCOME youth off of street corners
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,869 posts)"How many times have our hearts stopped in the middle of the night with the sound of a gunshot or a siren? How many teenagers have we seen hanging around on street corners when they should be sitting in a classroom? How many are sitting in prison when they should be working, or at least looking for a job? How many in this generation are we willing to lose to poverty or violence or addiction? How many?" - Barack Obama.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)ForgoTheConsequence
(4,869 posts)And it's playing out on this board. Is there someone you can talk to in real life? Perhaps get some fresh air or go for a walk? It will be ok, I promise.
Bernie Sanders isn't George Wallace, Hillary still has a chance, things will play out, life will go on.
Response to ForgoTheConsequence (Reply #62)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)the point, or if they're honestly this clueless.
Maybe if you put up some kind dismissive image, perhaps they'll relate to that.
Bottom line, Bernie DID NOT answer the question presented to him, but instead gave a stereotypic economic answer.
The question was about RACE RELATIONS.
Honestly, are these people really this profoundly tone deaf. The responses you're getting here
are dismissive beyond belief.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Pissed that I noticed he did not snswer! And mad that I expect an ACTUAL ANSWER. And won't accept the idea that all blacks need to be at work all day and night, otherwise: racism.
I really have no idea why he thinks that all blacks are poor.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)PonyUp
(1,680 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)make a difference in ways that will improve opportunities, lessen poverty for those in it, provide a decent wage and give people a chance to live happy, healthy, fulfilling lives. All horrible things, apparently.
Socialism. (see above).
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)He included all minorities that suffer, please stop trying to divide us, many people are suffering.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Why is it always up to us to keep things from being divisive but he does not have to not offend us? We have to swallow it down to keep things not divisive. Ignore our feelings. Ignore stereotypes. Always our fault.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)It was a BLACK FORUM.
The question was on how he will improve race RELATIONS better then Obama.
The answer: get low income kids off street corners by taxing millionaire and billionaires.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)It was about BLACK PEOPLE
The question was on RACE RELATIONS
Not black youth unemployment
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)if he included ALL races for that particular comment. He wouldnt have included them all if he just meant AAs. Besides, AAS arent the only ones who hang on the street corners! you are just trolling Bernie supporters and you don't even try to hide it. your outrage on this is totally irrational. If he said all the races that is what he meant otherwise he wouldnt have listed them all!
also how can you expect somebody to talk about race if you are offended and start howling at every turn when problems are pointed out and you start screeching STEREOTYPING. You are just using this as a way to go after Bernie, you have no interest in hearing solutions from him !
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Was to a completely different question than the one ASKED
QUESTION: How will you improve race relations
ANSWER: Get poor kids off street corners
How the hell is that and answer to THAT question?
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)and others that have suffered in the past. Nobody is asking you to sit down and shut up and swallow anything, we want to form a partnership to alleviate inequality wherever it exists.
We need to be partners in a world of inequality, not adversaries.
One thing we have to love about our kids is that they see less barriers, they are growing up in a world that does look at people by the color of their skin, or religion, or gender. They are more open and accepting to other people in a variety of ways. I think our job is to foster that spirit and not inflict our prejudices upon them.
That is not to say we can forget the past, as that influences the future.
A recent example is destabilizing the ME and killing/displacing millions of people, that cannot be forgotten and it is ongoing. I believe we displaced 25% of the Iraqi people, we cannot forget that recent mistake. They have not forgotten and we have seen and are now dealing with the backlash.
So while you protest the injustice that POC suffer in our country, please remember the injustices our country has inflicted on others and how some protest against those atrocities.
We are all in this world together.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He was at a BLACK FORUM
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)I thought this was about a reply in recent Democratic debate in which he did try and include ALL people.
Please post a link to where he said this at an all black forum and did not include people of other races.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)That link?
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)WTF does that even mean?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)If he cannot hndle answering about us specificalky, okay but it is offensive that he connects kids hanging on street corners are the problem with race relations. He did it at both events. Constantly. They say racism, his answer is about poor people. Because black equals poor apparently or maybe only poor black matter, or racism is caused by blacks being poor.
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)during the debate, but all you heard is black.
What other forum, post a link!
Do you even care about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi kids that have suffered because of 'mistakes' by our government. You seem to have forgotten that in your response.
THEY ARE PEOPLE as well!
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)azurnoir
(45,850 posts)Asked by PBS debate moderator Judy Woodruff if "race relations would be better under a Sanders presidency than they've been," the Vermont senator replied, "Absolutely."
"Because what we will do is say, instead of giving tax breaks to millionaires, we are going to create millions of jobs for low-income kids so they're not hanging out on street corners," he said. "We're going to make sure that those kids stay in school or are able get a college education. So I think that when you give low-income kids, African-American, white, Latino kids, the opportunities to get their lives together, they are not going to end up in jail. They're going to end up in the productive economy, which is where we want them."
http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/11/politics/bernie-sanders-race-relations-democratic-debate/]
bravenak
(34,648 posts)She asked him to duscuss BLACK issues and he discussed poor kids.
He said, " I said BLACK FIFTY TIMES!!! This makes the fifty first time!" Then proceeded to YELL at her for a full minute about poor kids. And ither poverty issues.
azurnoir
(45,850 posts)I suppose now you'll claim it was ah somewhere else
bravenak
(34,648 posts)She asked about reparations for blacks, he talked about low income kids of all races. She said he was scared to say black, he yelled at her that 'he said black fifty times!'
Everytine racism was brought up, he discussed jobs for black youth. Incarceration? Jobs for black kids. Every time. I do not think he CAN discuss racism/race relations without bringing up black youth unemployment and kids getting into trouble. Does he think racism is caused by black kids not having jobs or the other way around? Because it sounds like the former.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)You've now made the accusation that it was at the black forum at least a dozen times without any proof.
Its your OP, back it up or its just another lie from you in an attempt to smear Sanders
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Now it matters if he said it in MN or In SC? That was his ANSWER to RACE RELATIONS. It was not a question about teen joblessness. It was about race. He CANNOT ANSWER. Cant. Has no idea how to answer the question asked. So instead of figuring out what is wrong with his answers, lets fight about what corner he was standing on when he said it so that we can pretend that he did not say what he clearly said.
The fact of the matter is, you know it was a poor answer and so do I. Because hanging out on street corners is not a caus of race relation issues.
Question: How are you going to improve race relations better then Obama
Answer: I will tax the millionaires so that kids have jobs and are not 'hanging out on street corners'
You: He said that at the debate not at the black forum, you got mixed up so his bad answer is irrelevant and oh yeah Hillary is worse
Arazi
(6,829 posts)50+ posts flailing at everyone about how he said it at the "black forum"!!11!!
Now? Suddenly context doesn't matter
Props for relentless pursuit of the evil BS supporters. Another long night "winning" the internetz
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He cannot address it becuse he has no idea how to
It is his ftal flaw
Me saying it bothers people
Because it's true
slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)but need to do so on a truthful foundation at the same time.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)What a SHOCK!
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Why do you not use his full quote? You are the one being divisive in your posts. That is very sad but it needs to be challenged.
Response to bravenak (Original post)
840high This message was self-deleted by its author.
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)PonyUp
(1,680 posts)ms liberty
(8,595 posts)I have that lp, and I would have swore I was the only person here who'd ever heard of it, lol!
Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)ms liberty
(8,595 posts)flamingdem
(39,320 posts)He is somewhat streetwise. People of Italian and Irish descent also hang out on street corners. He may not ever have watched "The Wire".
bravenak
(34,648 posts)jfern
(5,204 posts)in Brooklyn in the 1950s.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)I can see how it's hurtful and agree with your assessment that it makes it sound like the responsibility of racism rests on the actions of the those who that racism targets.
FWIW, I think the phrase is kind of an old fashioned cliche used to mean 'unemployed', completely aside from anything to do with race. But that doesn't excuse the lack of sensitivity in the context. It was an unfortunate thing to say. I sincerely believe that Sanders' heart is in the right place and truly motivated by social justice, but that doesn't mean he always gets it right. I've noticed he does have the virtue of being able to listen. So hopefully he'll get this criticism.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He might end up president and we need to know he is responsive
Response to bravenak (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
quantumjunkie
(244 posts)So please don't try to speak for all of us. I hate to break it to ya but there are many of us that view Bernie as a living legend.
Bernie 2016!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)BklnDem75
(2,918 posts)Yeah ok...
GeorgeGist
(25,323 posts)You have no idea how Bernie sees you.
vercetti2021
(10,156 posts)He was talking about hookers for Hillary?
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)You were saying?
vercetti2021
(10,156 posts)That sarcasm went right over your heads.
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Clear as a bell, he was talking about all kids.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Enrique
(27,461 posts)lol
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)That doesn't make Bernie racist, or a bad person, it's just his opinion.
It's understandable why he doesn't get it. For his entire political career, he's never had to represent black people. Again, not because he's racist, it's just because there are no black people in Vermont.
I do give him credit for trying. He's tried to incorporate issues of race into his campaign. The issue is, IMO, he still doesn't quite get it. He doesn't understand that there are issues of race that go beyond economics.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He cannot answer the questions asked because he cannot answer the questions asked. Cant.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I thought, maybe I'm reading it wrong... maybe I'm just in-a-mood... maybe it won't sound as bad tomorrow.
I was wrong. It still sounds bad.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I was not on the corner but I live near the end of the block near a business. So, it effectively IS the corner.
Me talking about this is divisive. And evil. And I apparently want to find something to be mad about. I do not feel mad maybe exasperated.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I'm sorry. But keep in mind how poorly it reflects on people who say or suggest such things.
This will all be over very soon. Be strong.
(((xo)))
bravenak
(34,648 posts)No use. I'll just wait the three hours until class, go, come back, find my corner, and cause some racism.
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)With an unemployment rate of over 50% in some areas there are a lot of young people "hanging out". It's not a reflection on their character. There are plenty of kids hanging out in West Virginia mining towns too.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Which was ~'how will you improve race relations better then Obama?'
Answer: get poor kids off street corners
Makes no sense unless you take it to a stereotypical place
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)Will greatly improve race relations. Employment statistics are not a "stereotype". Sanders said in one debate regarding Flint, paraphrasing "We have to ask ourselves if this would have happened in a white suburb". That's the kind of thing that poor people see, their community is ignored or worse yet, poisoned by greed and indifference. That's what New Orleans saw after Katrina. That's what black people have seen forever.
Of course if you want to go there, Secretary Clinton said black kids commit crimes because they are "super predators" and that people on public assistance have no dignity. If you want to parse words, I'm good with that.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)The way he addresses race is part of his problem connecting with many blacks. Because none of that would help Trayvon or stop Dylann Roof or that Inkster cop, or Michael Slager or Tuck and Roll cop at the pool party, or 99 percent of race relation issues. The fact that the first thing that comes up when we say racism is 'blacks are poor' is actually insulting. We are NOT ALL POOOR!! I can get a job and get into college just fine without him, already doing it, how does any of that help say, ME? I'm black as those kids on street corners.
His answer to race cannot always be WORK ON POVERTY. He needs to address the race relations part because I am not on a street corner but still deal with too much of it. Most BLACKS are NOT POOR.
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)Obviously racism is a lot more complicated than the economic aspect of it. But that doesn't mean improving the economic aspects of it wouldn't improve race relations. Fix? No. Improve? Yes. Most of these issues are more complicated than a debate answer can encompass. Since you are a Hillary Clinton supporter, what has she proposed specifically that you think addresses the problem more directly?
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He only discussed the money. Like usually
Because many of us have no money issues
What about us? Nothing?
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)In all seriousness. I think you make a valid point, but I'd be interested to know what would have been a better answer for you.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)He needs to get that moment where it clicks
Realize that racism is not a fake issue that is put out by the oligarchy to put barriers between us. That it is us who needs to fucking get it together instead of pointing out some nameless faceless cabal of evil. Racism is bad. Racists need to get their shit together yes it is their fault for holding fucked up beliefs. Its not all money either, most is power. Feeling BETTER than other. He needs to understand race from a socioligical standpoint instead of resorting to his confort zone, economics. It is not comfortable for us either but we deal day in day out. He needs to too.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)And IMO it is a huge strength for him.
However, he does have a "when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail" issue. As do a lot of Democrats, and a lot of people at DU. We have a lot of economic problems in this country, and solving them would do a great deal of good for everyone, and it seem overwhelming enough that people think solving them would actually solve everything. However solving them wouldn't help everyone equally because of racism, nor would it solve all problems caused by racism. If he could do one thing to improve his campaign and eventual potential presidency, it would be to recognize that not everything is fixed by solving economic problems, and that it's impossible to actually solve them for everyone so long as there is discrimination against anyone. That's very clear, given that wealthy people of color suffer from racism.
He would appoint good SCOTUS candidates, and he would not veto any relevant legislation. I don't personally see either him or Hillary as champions of any social issues, except maybe the one issue of reproductive rights.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I'm a black woman so if I can only have one thing it will need to be rights. People always promise us money but we never get it, but rights we use, rights save our lives, money is great to have, but I was parity and equality. I want to fix the gaps between the sexes and races more than I want to rein in wall street or fight the oligarchy. I know what my oligarchy is and it's not billionaires. It's sexism and racism.
polly7
(20,582 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)The original subtitle was, "The Social Structure of an Italian Slum".
Whyte was privileged person from an upper middle class family and graduated from Swarthmore and University of Chicago. On an Harvard Fellowship in between Swarthmore and U Chicago, he attempted to use the lens of sociology and ethnography to better understand the differences between "corner boys" and "college boys" in the North End of Boston (comparable to NYC's Little Italy).
He offered a picture of these young men as scrappy, endeavorers who often turned to rackets or illegitimate means of income because of a lack of options. He attempted to dispel the notion that they were lazy although some argued he stereotyped the Italians of the North End. One of his findings was that those who came from families who benefited from New Deal jobs tended to produce young adults who did better than those who didn't.
Those who hangout on urban street corners is kind of metaphor in sociological circles.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I have no idea why this is supposed to belong here.
The question was how will he improve race relations
The answer was to get poor kids off the corners
Because all of our kids are on the corners
And all of us are poor
It made no damn sense but so what who cares if we get an actual answer, why should we expect a real answer?
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)And I think I even understand why -- at least partially.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Sarcasm......
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Yes
panader0
(25,816 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Did he say it was just blacks hanging out on street corners. You see race in everything and sometimes you are just plain wrong. I almost think you are trying to just get hides when others respond to this crap. I think you are better than that.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
cannabis_flower
(3,765 posts)Michelle Alexander, author of The New Jim Crow - who stands with Bernie Sanders. But of course, I guess she's racist too! Right? And sexist too, since she is a woman who doesn't support Hillary Clinton.
http://www.thenation.com/article/hillary-clinton-does-not-deserve-black-peoples-votes/
bravenak
(34,648 posts)thereismore
(13,326 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Give them money and racism ends.
- the revolution
thereismore
(13,326 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)Just like we did during the riots and drive bys. I lost plenty of folks to 'superpredators'. One aunt got stabbed so many times by a crackhead that we closed her casket. It's not funny when you know exactly wtf a superpredator is cause they preyed on you cause you lived there. I started getting robbed by crackheads as a child. My mom put me in judo. It helped everyday.
Response to bravenak (Reply #136)
Post removed
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)OMG you actually wrote 4 lines. It would help your cause if you did that
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