My detailed take on why NOT Bernie Sanders
OK, sounds like some are trying to make the case that people who are voting for HRC don't have real reasons NOT to vote for Sanders.
Here are mine
1. The "revolution" lacks any practicality and details which Sanders has had over a half a year to outline... such as
- How is Sanders going to make doctors, hospitals and pharma accept half of what they're being paid now under his SP plan... otherwise we just keep the high HC cost and switch who were paying HCI premiums to.
- How is Sanders going to get any of this revolution agenda past congress?! (HRC isn't calling for revolution inside her own party, that's Sanders cross to bear)
- Sanders Wall Street plan doesn't fix the effects of Sanders horrid CFMA vote, what the hell!!?? Factually HRC is correct, her plan goes further into the root of what hurt America then and is hurting Europe now in regards to the commodities deregulation Sanders Voted for.
2. Sanders wants a "course correction" and sounds like he wants to put asunder generations of democratic progress with his revolution just to start over on a lot of grounds. Tearing down the democratic establishment including Obama himself with his consummate bashing (NOT FAIR CRITICISM). Sanders has been an consummate DNC basher and a consummate Obama basher over the years, Sanders most disingenuous claim is Obama didn't bring the people with him after he got into office... I've gotten so many OFA emails I shut them off... Sanders isn't even rational in his bashing sometimes. His bash's even himself for taking Wall Street money or lobbying for it, but so has 99% of people who are involved in DNC...
3. Sanders "revolution" has too many asterisks by it that leaves out the supposed near instant equalization of marginalized groups (native Americans, Blacks, women) that he claims his revolution of changes could bring to SP to free college and to {free something else next week}. Sanders doesn't even try and reduce the horrid military spending.... he's "authentically" closed mouth with regards to his revolution on that issue. Look, Go hard or go home...or just stop calling it a revolution.
4. Sanders focus is narrow, he doesn't make any qualms about it. A total lack of foreign policy INTEREST ... not just experience... he isn't even interested... not by the least bit. I'm thinking what else is Sanders not interested in in regards to governing this historically powerful country?
*** Sanders is calling for revolution not Clinton, she wants t build on top of what Obama has incrementally... that's at least proven to work... slowly but surely.
Personal
1. Sanders came to this primary with an establishment mindset; that groups of marginalized people would join his revolution if they just heard about it vs building a relationship and finding out what said people needed...aka, taking even imperfect relationships with people for grated. Sanders had months to get out of the Northeast TYPE environment and into others environments where there was different TYPES of people but choose to stay were he was at and now his message is reaching the very people Clinton lost her 08 bid with. Recent polls have him in GOP. territory with his numbers in some marginalized groups.... This looks like he had good marketing to a narrow group of people.....not a revolution.
2. Sanders purity test is something even he can't pass. Instead of going hard against the DEM establishment he could've proposed his direction is better by proposing legislation or actions that would progress his revolution. No, it's mostly personal attacks on Hillary and others in the establishment for not being pure for something(S) he's done even in small measures in comparison. From the CFMA to his 94 vote to his gun immunity vote etc etc... don't just be slightly better while bashing everyone else.... propose something that actually works.... and no, 2 trillion people standing outside of Mitch McConnell's windows doesn't work, McConnell will just shut the blinds.
3. Sanders overall has never been the person he's bashed others for not being... Sanders doesn't have a PROVEN TRACK RECORD for revolution (aka big sweeping change by leading hoards of people towards a direction)... not in the least bit. John Lewis had a small point the other Day... "where his ass was at!?" (recited in same cadence as "where yah at" by future) all this time?!
Where Sanders ass was at when the left needed his revolution for
- Cops to stop murdering Americans for minimal causation of being sKeered?!
- Getting medicare for all past congress during the ACA fight
- Reducing military spending and pegging our resourses for relative little gain
- Reducing the threat gun manufactures and gun attitudes placed on this country
and last but not least
- Getting Single payer passed in VT..........................VT!!!
Your take?
tia
P.S. At the end of the day if the primaries DO work out FOR Sanders I will be busting my ass in call centers, one on one outreach and organization for him.
He's just not better than a republican, he's passionate about what he's down for and that MIGHT... MIGHT overcome all of the above.
= new reply since forum marked as read
Pancho Villa fer me...
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(Last line from an actual pro-Hillary post on Facebook)
My gosh
I can see a couple hundred posts attacking you. 
...is precisely why I don't find the arguments of "read my lips" Democrats very compelling.
I mean, I've seen more sticker shock regarding education in a month than I've seen over the billions that go to promote war.
Well, I would suggest holding a bake sale to pay for a bloated military, if a candidate really, really wants one badly enough.
like one of Hillary's Goldman Sachs speeches. Revolution comes from the people. Do you think that the Boston Teaparty was planned? Do you think that the French revolution was planned and executed by insiders like Hillary?
It seems to me that you have completely forgotten HL Mencken about the insane government your candidate has been a part of the last 20 years.
From what I hear, there has been listeners to Thom Hartmann who may have convinced him.
What I cannot understand is how you are obsessed with the minuscule details in ordeer to find any fault with Bernie while you gladly ignore, nay, almost praise her Wall Street ties as if your bee queen will solve any issue regarding money in politics.
Sorry. But if Hillary and her camp breaks every democratic principle to force through a nomination against Trump, she is bound to loose. In fact, that may turn the anger against DNC and completely fracture the party. Are you willing to fracture the party jkust to have Hillary loose to a Fascist?
In that scenario, Hillary and her supportes can only thank themselves.
What exactly has the Cintons done for the American people besides their corporate donors?
What makes you trust Hillary more than Bernie Sanders?
What makes you think she is entitled to the presidency?
What makes you think she has a single progressive bone in her body?
Do you think she will make the right decision the 5th time while having the finger on the button?
Are you so naive that her million dollar contributions and 675 000 speaking fees (she demanded - lied when saying "that's what they offered"
doesn't create conflict of interest when it comes to bring the criminal bankers to heel as if they were "superpredators" without compassion? Would you bite the hand that feeds you?
No. I'm just voicing my opinion on providing click bait to a disgusting right winger's website.
So many right wing sources used here lately by supposed progressive liberals to prop up their guy or tear down his opponent that it's rather disturbing. So, yeah, I tend to call that crap as I see it.
Is that you close yourself off to supporting enlightenment on any right wing organization, however tiny.
The "click bait" argument is just another excuse to stick your head in the sand. There are plenty of right wingers who would click on more moderate news sites if nothing else than to leave their idiotic comments. It goes both ways. I have never understood the vitriol on this board for this purity test for information links....as long as what that source says can also be backed up.
And instead of replying to a good rebuttal on the OP, you spend all your energy killing the messenger.
(Don't worry, that image link is from Mother Jones)
When right wing sources were put out to pasture where they belong.
I find it hard to believe that I am alone in that thinking being as how every right wing piece of propaganda ever generated is getting dumped right in the middle of our playground in order to trash a Democratic candidate. I find that reprehensible and unforgivable.
Notice how nitpicking the source allowed the conversation to shift from your main point. Classic Hillary supporter tactic.
The major thing is that Sanders starts by coming to the table STRONG. Vs Obama (and likely HRC) coming in *already with a compromise* (ie WEAK - usually on purpose under the guise of "compromise" or being "realistic" .
So the Sanders supporters *get* that some of the things may be asking for a lot - although I think they can still be accomplished - but that it's also a way to start from a position that's not already a compromise.
The D's have had such a long history of playing the 'good cop' in the corporate show that people forget what a strong position is vs either "weak" or "wink wink" good/cop bad cop is.
...and no, I am unskilled with that "thingy!"
Happy V-day to you!
No one has seen any evidence of the so-called Sanders revolution https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/10/sorry-bernie-sanders-there-is-zero-evidence-of-your-political-revolution-yet/
To succeed, Sanders might have to drive Americans who don't normally participate to the polls. Unfortunately for him, groups who usually do not vote did not turn out in unusually large numbers in New Hampshire, according to exit polling data.
https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=
&w=1484
...As for Sanders, he credited his victory to turnout. "Because of a huge voter turnout -- and I say huge -- we won," he said in his speech declaring victory, dropping the "h" in "huge." "We harnessed the energy, and the excitement that the Democratic party will need to succeed in November."
In fact, Sanders won by persuading many habitual Democratic primary voters to support him. With 95 percent of precincts reporting their results as of Wednesday morning, just 241,000 ballots had been cast in the Democratic primary, fewer than the 268,000 projected by New Hampshire Secretary of State William Gardner last week. Nearly 289,000 voters cast ballots in the state's Democratic primary in 2008.
To be sure, the general election is still seven months away. Ordinary Americans might be paying little attention to the campaign at this point, and if Sanders wins the nomination, he'll have the help of the Democratic Party apparatus in registering new voters. The political revolution hasn't started, though, at least not yet.
Without this revolution, I am not sure how Sanders proposes to advance his unrealistic agenda
You cite a lot of things here but you fail to realize that Hillary is damaged goods and sorry but nobody wants a Samsonite backed up travel bag filled with old bones as President. Why do you think she is seen as not being trustworthy by the majority of American's? There's a reason for that you know.
You say Bernie has no sweeping reform and such but can you cite something Hillary has done please? Because guess what? You can't. Meanwhile are you aware that Bernie is called "The Amendment King"?
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-gets-it-done-sanders-record-pushing-through-major-reforms-will-surprise-you
https://pplswar.wordpress.com/2015/11/11/what-bernie-sanders-got-done-in-washington-a-legislative-inventory/
You cite Bernie not getting single payer passed in VT like it's some huge thing but Bernie works in DC, he isn't on the state level. When was the last time a senator/congressman who served in DC helped to pass a local state issue? They have no vote. Yet you act like Bernie did. Sorry but how about "NOPE."
Yet remind us again who has changed her mind on every single issue. Was that Bernie? No it was Hillary and yet you want to give her a free pass on these things. Really? Allow me to remind you.
But Bernie is the big bad guy, right? Oh? Let's take a good look at how Bernie and Hillary voted whee they both served at the same shall we? A side by side comparison and that is where the clarity lies.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/28/upshot/the-senate-votes-that-divided-hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders.html
You cite some speel about Bernie hasn't revealed anything when it comes to healthcare. I will cite you this and say that Hillary's plan leaves millions to die. Literally. In fact, what was it you and so many so called "Dems" have been fighting for years and screaming about how people are dying? It's ironic that Indy's like myself seem to be more of a Democrat than many Hillary supporters. You guys repeat RW talking points, verbatim, that sounds like the Republicans talking against the ACA. I fully expect the whole death panel discussion to start happening at any second.
Bernie has constantly based the establishment and Obama? Can you tell us please where this so called "constant bashing" is taking place? Ya Bernie called out Obama on some shitty things he did like TPP and? What's your point. Politicians should be held accountable, they serve us and us only. That is how Democracy and Freedom Of Speech works. Sorry but we're sick and tired of this whole crap of "get in line and say nothing" junk. No, we've had enough and people on BOTH SIDES are tired of it when our politicians are bought and sold by special interest like a commodity and the American people are whored out for "The establishment" just like the 89 Dems who voted to gut SNAP http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/1/29/1273428/-These-89-Democrats-Voted-to-Cut-8-7-Billion-from-Food-Stamps
But you don't want to hear that do you? Of course not. Go look at that list. Who do you see?
You mention minority support but remind us who was the worst at that and who hurt millions of minorities? Bill Clinton's welfare reform which Hillary staunchly defended. http://www.salon.com/2015/10/15/the_worst_thing_hillary_clinton_has_ever_done/
But you don't want to hear that do you?
I find it hilarious that you say this;
Tell us please, who well versed was Obama in that area when he ran for POTUS? We'll wait.
Meanwhile Hillary has horrible judgement. Who voted for Iraq and who didn't?
Argument over.
Now let's look at this.
TPP
KXL
Voting for a border fence
Saying child migrants should be sent home
Having a melt down as SOS over gender changes of same sex couple
Wall Street donations
Speaking fees
Taking money from weapons deals
Honduras
Comments about nuking Iran
Calling herself a moderate
NAFTA
DOMA
DADT
Opposing gay marriage in New York State
Brownbeck Amendments
Glass-Steagall
No living wage
No free college
No universal health care (ACA coverage gap....ACA will never provide UHC)
Pro arctic drilling
pro fracking
on and on..........................
Sorry but the coronation has been cancelled and we're not interested in a weathervane who flip flops on everything.
Like this, it just brings about the
in me. C'mon... you think seriously that we're going to believe you are open to anyone else's rebuttal?
Like the 'I will get back to this reply' on a serious effort on Jeff47's response? http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511230116#post67
Effort would seem really wasted for someone who seems to have it all figured out
I'm bookmarking it for future reference.
It's been obvious since a year before he declared. But he has a good speech and noone seems to care about losing next November.
