My rocker-girl wife shared this with me regarding feminists and Hillary

[tk2kewl]

Last edited Sun Feb 14, 2016, 11:54 AM - Edit history (1)

Guest Editorial: Young Women Don't Owe Clinton
by Shasta Willson • Feb 10, 2016 at 1:22 pm

I'm a feminist of a certain age. I earned degrees in math and computer science before STEM was a term, and I have made my career in technology. During the years when feminism was a dirty word, I used it frequently. When Hillary Clinton ran in 2008, I enthusiastically supported her. My husband reminds me that when he first supported Obama, I snarled, “Must women, who are not even a minority, be the last to be equal at every table?”

But I do not support Secretary Clinton’s nomination now.

It's not that my opinion of her competencies has changed. I still think she's smart, ambitious, focused, and competent. I still believe that for a woman to rise to the top of a major party, that woman has had to be twice as good at politics as most of her male peers. Clinton is that female politician who has proven herself adept in D.C. for decades, brushing off scandals real and imagined, and paying her dues.

That's the problem.

For we feminists of a certain age, the only way to survive in male-dominated fields was to out-play the boys at their own game. When you fight like hell just to be on the team, you don’t try to change the rules of the game. Clinton is old school. She knows how to play the game. She's very, very good at it. Unfortunately for her, the old rules are starting to look a lot like cheating to a generation that has been stripped of opportunity.

More: http://www.thestranger.com/blogs/slog/2016/02/10/23553077/guest-editorial-young-women-dont-owe-clinton

[Xipe Totec]

1. k&r

[dsc]

2. she may not owe Clinton personally

but she owes women of Clinton's age cohort a whole hell of a lot. Like many millenials they seem to think the fact that women's rights, gay rights, and civil rights are on third base is because millenials hit a triple. No, its because people who are in Hillary's age cohort worked their asses off getting us there. The LGBT people who were openly gay in the 70's and 80's often at great personal cost. The women who strived to rise to the top of their professions such as O'Connor and Ginsburg and yes Clinton, they helped build that, millenials sure didn't. It is nice this woman got to build that career too bad she doesn't have the beginning of an understanding as to who built the world that made it possible for her to do so. I know every day that the fact I am a gay teacher in the South is directly because of the men like my uncle who walked the hard path of being openly gay in the 1950's and subsequent decades. He and his friends helped build that, I am a mere squatter.

[tk2kewl]

3. my wife is 48 but will always be my cool guitar chick among so much else

and if you read the article i think the author agrees with your sentiment about who is responsible for the gains young women enjoy today

[mgmaggiemg]

27. oops it's supposed to be women don't OWE bernie

[roguevalley]

35. I am not clear on your point. Given that Bernie has been

a committed feminist and all around humanist all his life, he has the right to be considered a part of our team. If I am misconstruing your comment, then I apologize. Otherwise, I think Bernie has nothing to bow his head over.

[mgmaggiemg]

50. the point is that women

can vote for themselves...they can stop looking out for other people or candidates...they don't have to be the mariner...they can be the captain....they don't have to be the handmaiden and they don't owe any candidate anything ...they can vote in their own self interest...so it's so interesting to see so much brow beating of women on the bernie side.....Bernie has the honor and privilege of being the first male handmaiden....so it will be a first for both of them ...a win win

[eShirl]

63. The only browbeating of women I've seen has come from Clinton supporters. n/t

[mgmaggiemg]

65. in your delusional dreams

that means you will be buying the beer on election night "there's no crying in baseball"- Tom Hanks...from A LEAGUE OF THEIR OWN

[daleanime]

77. Indeed, there is no "special place in hell..."

for people who go "where the boys are."

[Aerows]

113. That's what I am seeing.

I'm a woman, and you aren't going to get me to vote for Hillary. Especially with this high-toned language that implies you aren't a feminist if you don't like her policies. I'm a woman - think for myself, and follow the policies I choose to vote for.

[s-cubed]

6. The author acknowledges the debt. eom

[malthaussen]

31. Interesting argument.

So, the Presidency is a reward for all of Mrs Clinton's hard work, and by extension for the hard work of feminists of her generation? The rising generation should show due deference and respect because if it wasn't for the previous generation, they'd be barefoot and pregnant, and chained to a hot stove 12 hours a day?

Thank you for illuminating a mind-set that has caused me puzzlement this past year.

-- Mal

[dsc]

69. I wouldn't go that far but in my lifetime, and I am not in her age cohort

women couldn't get a legal abortion, women couldn't get credit in their own name, newspapers had separate sections for men and women in the jobs ads, high schools could deny women athletes equal opportunity. Gays could be arrested, jailed for years, fired from pretty much any job, denied a host of professional licences, beaten up in schools and on the streets with impunity, and sure as hell weren't thinking about marriage. Her age cohort is why alot of that changed for the better.

[malthaussen]

72. And none of that is in dispute,

... nor does the article claim otherwise. But what appears to be the argument is that, since the rising generation has benefited from all this work, the Presidency should be handed like a lollipop or a trophy to the chosen representative of the generation that made it happen. In other words, the rising generation should show appropriate gratitude and deference. Whatever may be the moral or philosophical value of that belief, it certainly is tactically no way to energize and encourage support from the target group.

And in focussing on this point, one loses sight of the other point, which I consider to be the one of interest in the article. Let us stipulate, per arguendo, that the millennials are a bunch of ungrateful, snot-nosed brats. The question remains: why are they ungrateful, snot-nosed brats, what is it they believe Mrs Clinton cannot do that an alternative might? Unless some substantive argument can be raised to convince them that they are in error as to the capacity of Mrs Clinton as president, they will not give her their vote. It cannot be beaten out of them, nor can their elders carry out a sufficient guilt-trip to make them fall in line.

-- Mal

[noiretextatique]

42. young women don't "owe" her their votes

Was the crux of her message, and that is true. I'm almost as old as Clinton, so I don't "owe" her a damn thing.

[PyaarRevolution]

88. Too bad so many of us...

roll on people like the Stonewall Queens who helped get us here as well. I'm not referring to you but others.

[Doctor_J]

4. Hillary has the misfortune to be running against one of the few truly honest people in politics

at the moment. The contrast could not be more stark. It has to suck to the embodiment of the establishment at a time when radical change is needed and craved.

[tk2kewl]

7. yes. and against the zeitgeist

[CorporatistNation]

119. Well Said!

Bernie this Saturday!

[boston bean]

5. Another, you're to old to get the real feminism schtick.

pfft..

[jham123]

8. Sorry Bean

It's just another example of Hillary unable to understand nuances in American populace

Just like "Pal around" with Kissinger.....Just like Albright with her "Your going to hell" speech, and what was the other one?? Oh, that's it, "Girls are just there to find Boyfriends"

Those are all nuggets and yet they all occurred within that past 7 days....

[Hydra]

9. She's not a change candidate

It's that simple. She can't be one, even if she wanted to. She did all the appropriate things to get in with the Establishment and to become part of the 1%, which means she can't rock the boat or they will throw her out.

The boat not only needs to be rocked, we need a new boat.

[boston bean]

10. I know... being a woman president has been done so many times before.

can't she think of something new?

[Hydra]

11. ...

So you're saying if Diane Feinstein or Debbie Wasserman Schultz was running, they should automatically get a feminist nod because it would break the glass ceiling??

Btw, Glass ceiling broke in 2008. Few if any objections to Hillary or Palin for being women holding high office.

[boston bean]

12. I'm commenting on your statement. Nothing more.

[Hydra]

14. Ya, it was the comment Team Hill is swearing is not in play this cycle

"Vote for for her Gender! It should be all you need!"

But feel free to make it perfectly clear what's going on in Presidential hopeful Clinton's agenda. As Mark Shields pointed out, she currently has no message to move people with.

[boston bean]

16. I was responding to your comment that Hillary is not a change candidate. nt

[Hydra]

17. Yes, you did.

Are you unsatisfied with your answer? Would you like to give another one?

[boston bean]

18. No, I'm quite satisfied, thank you for asking though. nt

[roguevalley]

36. Hillary is the slow change, small change candidate in a year

when the science of our planet puts us at extinction. She isn't big enough to be bold enough to do the right thing. Our very existence depends on the vision of the President we get because only the American President can force and cajole world wide change. I am not willing to put the lives of my babies in the hands of someone so unwilling to do what is needed. Anyone who vacations with Kissinger is no one I want to know.

[A Simple Game]

38. So now Hillary is a change candidate?

We aren't supposed to take Hillary at her word that she will just be a continuation of the Obama Presidency?

Is there a score card somewhere I can check every morning to see where Hillary stands on any given issue?

[cui bono]

84. And you did exactly what the poster said you did, made it about voting for her because she's a woman

That's not enough.

Most of us would LOVE to have a woman finally be president. But this is not the woman we want. She's NOT an agent of change. She'll just be more of the same and this country cannot survive that.

Bernie is the agent of change and he is for equal rights for everyone and has been fighting that fight his entire adult life.

.

[Bucky]

19. "She is a woman" is, I'm sorry, the laziest argument for Clinton

Claiming she's an outsider cause she's a woman ignores her decades of service at the center of power. It ignores her chief asset as a candidate. Taking all that money from Goldman Sachs belies the notion that she's any kind of outsider at all. Sorry, no sale. I don't have that big of a problem with Clinton; I'll gladly support her over any Republican in the fall. But telling me being a woman makes her any different as a politician is just insulting my intelligence.

Her supporters need to stop that bullshit.

[boston bean]

20. One is not able to comment that being a female president is a change from the status quo??

jessum chrissum, you guys sure put a lot of effort into trying debunk something so damn true.

For what reason, I'm not sure.

[Bucky]

21. No, you're able to comment whatever. I still advise dropping the lame argument

Leaning on a broken crutch is never wise. I do wish Clinton supporters could understand what a dud their messaging is.

[boston bean]

22. Advise away and makes things seem as they are not. It really doesn't matter to me.

[roguevalley]

37. being a woman isn't a change agent if the change agent won't

change. I hear nothing in her speeches that says she will do enough fast enough to save us from extinction. She isn't the one in this furious moment of rage and demands to be it.

[geologic]

59. > "It really doesn't matter to me."...

[Fawke Em]

47. So would being a Jewish president. eom

[Odin2005]

78. Margret Thatcher was a change in the Status Quo in the UK, and in a terrible way.

Voting for somebody just because they are X is Identity politics at it's most idiotic.

[cui bono]

85. Not in any of the ways that are important to the job description of POTUS.

That job is about your policy stances and your ethics and your principles.

You are stating that we should vote for her just because she is a woman. At least you've said it now. So when we say it back to you you can accept that we are telling the truth.

.

[eridani]

87. As a matter of fact, no. No more than Carly Fiorina wouls be. n/t

[noiretextatique]

44. no her gender is not enough change

No more than Obama's race enough change.

[malthaussen]

45. Isn't that disingenuous?

The author touches on an interesting point: Mrs Clinton is a mistress of politics as it has been practiced up until this election. And that grasp is what disqualifies her among the rising generation, who want an end to business as usual. It appears that this dissatisfaction cuts across party lines, or Mr Trump would not be doing so well for the GOP in his race.

-- Mal

[mgmaggiemg]

46. supurbely place sarcasm ;)

[AlbertCat]

58. being a woman president has been done so many times before.

Being a woman president doesn't guarantee anything.... including change... and considering the subject, in this case guarantees none.

[eridani]

86. So, you're supporting Carly Fiorina now?

Too bad, but she dropped out already.

[PyaarRevolution]

89. That's not good enough for me.

I want the opportunity to have tuition free schooling for the rest of my school run as well as other people not having to worry about getting a doctor's visit or paying for prescription drugs.

[Ken Burch]

108. by itself, putting a woman in the presidency isn't anything at all.

Especially if it's someone who simply happens to be female but is just fine with military intervention, the most anti-woman activity of all time.

No war can ever have feminist or progressive results anymore.

[kcr]

33. Maybe you're just not a rocker-girl?

Just got get with-it, man. Do what the hip kids are doing. Clearly, that's what it's all about.

Edit to clarify because sarcasm isn't always clear on the internet. I'm with you on this one and tired of the attacks on feminists who support Hillary.

[roguevalley]

39. it would do us well to listen harder and parse meaning

more deeply since they outnumber us and will be the ones who swing the decision.

[kcr]

51. This is all primary bullshit

People who get caught up in this primary bullshit put their blinders on and think their candidates are the be all and end all and their opinions are the only one that count. I actually like both candidates and would be happy with either one. I ended up voting for Obama in the primaries in '08 so I'm not someone who's insisting we should vote for Hillary because she's a woman. And like I do every time, I'm not disclosing who I'm voting for this time because I never do. Though it won't matter because where I live it's usually decided by the time it comes to me. But sometimes I can't help but put my two cents in anyway, and I'm sure that won't stop people from thinking they know what side I'm on.

Having said that, having a woman for a president is a big deal. I think that's something that makes more than a few Bernie supporters unhappy. I will be so happy when this primary season is over, as always.

[cannabis_flower]

64. It may not matter by the time your state votes..

which makes it all the more important that you express your views to try to influence the ones that do count, otherwise you don't count at all. I live in Texas. I'm not sure if it will be over by super Tuesday, but I hope not.

[kcr]

66. I think it gets way too polarized

As if it's the general election. We're deciding who our candidate is, remember? The fact you just told me I don't count at all just shows how ridiculous it's gotten. People are convinced they're so right that the other side is the enemy.

[cannabis_flower]

70. Hey, I didn't just tell you that you don't count at all

I also said I don't count at all unless I try to influence those in other states. Usually, it's ended way before Super Tuesday, hence anyone in those states really have no vote that counts.

[kcr]

71. I just don't think there's a whole lot of influencing going on on DU

I know this will sound silly, and really, I don't post much on DU anymore so I don't even know if this matters any more or that they even remember me now, but there are people I really like and respect on DU that are on both sides which is why I don't like to say who I vote for in the primaries for fear they'll like or respect me less. So it's just been my policy to stay out of the primary wars on DU. I've always been much more politically active outside of it.

[malthaussen]

49. How does an explanation of why some people don't want Mrs Clinton constitute an attack?

I really don't understand this tendency of both camps to see explanation as attack. If I said I didn't support Mrs Clinton because she is not six feet tall, would you feel I was attacking the candidate, or offering a frivolous reason? Now suppose the reason were less frivolous, but simply something which you thought irrelevant or unimportant. Would that suddenly constitute an attack?

-- Mal

[kcr]

54. It's all in how it's done

For example, does society generally not accept women who are not six feet tall? Not really. But aging is a touchy subject, especially for women. So all off these subjects that subtly and some not so subtly attack older women can overtime really wear thin. I'd said in my last post that I generally just don't divulge who I support in the primaries because I try not to get too involved in the wars. But even if I were the most staunch Bernie supporter, it would really wear thin on this forty-something woman. Even the OP couldn't just mention his wife, but his rocker-girl wife. She's not like those older, frumpy women who would support Hillary, ewwww! Hillary is for OOOOOLD women! Cuz she's OOOOOOOLLLLD!! You don't want people to think you're OOOOOOLD, too, do you?

[malthaussen]

57. Well, I'm an old white male, so I can't answer that one.

It doesn't seem to necessarily follow from the article, which I believe makes a valuable point: that the rising generation is dissatisfied with business as usual, and reject Mrs Clinton specifically because she excels at it. I'm not convinced that the author is correct in this assessment, but there does seem to be a sizeable percentage of voters in both camps who support the "anti-establishment" candidate. In this, it matters not what the candidates really believe, or can deliver, just that the perception exists on the one hand of perpetuating the old system, and on the other of applying the new broom.

-- Mal

[kcr]

62. To be clear, I wasn't speaking about the article

I think perceptions might change as media focus shifts. I think now that it has become clear that Bernie is actually a serious candidate, the media will take notice and I wonder how that will change things.

[malthaussen]

67. Ah, yes. I see.

Yes, I can see how one could discern some implied aggression from the way the OP is phrased.

As for Bernie, I think Mr Trump may have already experienced some of the answer: he actually appears to have tried to make some decent points during the last debate, but was booed by the audience who wanted a cat-fight. If Mr Sanders is compelled to give a more specific explanation of how he will actually implement his lofty goals, rather than "we need a Revolution," he may have to deal with people complaining that he's selling out.

-- Mal

[Zorra]

13. Recommend.

[RiverLover]

15. Brilliant.

I'm so proud of our young women today. Thanks for sharing this. You've got one cool rocker-wife!!

We've come a long way, baby

[tk2kewl]

73. young people are prepared to make things work; they understand the stakes

i wish my wife and i could still be described as "young people." solidly middle aged... late boomer/early genxer

[artislife]

23. This reminds me of a conversation I had long ago

I was at a client's house and she refused to watch the Tour de France because the French didn't back us into going into war.


yeah.

I said that was the problem with spreading democracy around the world (yeah, I know we got it from the French, be she didn't), they create these countries and then they listen to the will of their people.


Feminist are all looking through their own personal lens.

Today's feminist know that a figure head or a token female is not enough anymore. Just getting a woman to the top isn't enough. We have had loads of woman who have reached the top and we know that not all of them are equal in merit. We want someone who is much more than a just a woman. We want a woman who matches our ideals.

[mgmaggiemg]

24. young women don't own bernie either

men have voted for men based on their sex alone since the beginning of democracy...if a woman or women want to vote for a woman just because she's a woman more power to her....going negative and bullying her certainly won't change her mind...fortunately there's a qualified female candidate and women can have it both ways...female and qualified....there is no female demographic...no one is fighting for the female vote...supposedly they are fighting for the black vote and the latino vote and other minority votes...but no one is fighting for the female vote because in politics no one cares about them, no one in politics is pandering to them....they are politically invisible...that's why they created their own party within a party...because if they can't be for themselves...no one will be for them....Cheers, Maggie

[abelenkpe]

25. K&R

[Arazi]

26. A must read! So much good info in here. I liked this part :

Today's young feminists will not vote for Clinton for her gender, or to repay a debt they did not incur. Why should they? They want to know what she will do for them, and her answers are falling short for many. Her campaign refers to the black vote as a "firewall," while black voters increasingly question what she's actually offering. Young people want to know where their jobs and health care will come from, and she counsels patience for moderate changes.

When asked how her Presidency would differ from a third Obama term, she laughed and said, “The first woman President would be quite a change.”

I cringed when she said that, and realized I no longer want her to be the first female President. As a feminist of a certain age, I feel some guilt. It is our turn. We have waited a very, very long time for our turn. Many of us—certainly including Clinton—have spent our entire lives working for it. As a feminist who is just barely of a certain age, my debt has been called due, and I feel the weight of my elders’ reprobation.

But the world has changed. We've raised an entire generation in the worst economic crash since the Great Depression. They grew up under a surveillance state, with constant background war. They grew up within economic disparity so great it is literally unimaginable, almost indescribable. They grew up in a world where a large portion of their responsible elders have simply denied scientific facts ranging from evolution to climate change... and continued to win elections.

So they’re going to make up their own minds. They see the white, male, Democratic socialist sit down and listen to the BLM activists who interrupted him. They see him seeking out Native American counsel, and they see him paying his interns a fair wage. They see policies promising real potential for jobs and education and health care, and they think it's entirely fair that the very wealthiest should give back some of their spoils to pay for it.

Those young feminists who support Sanders are not naive or disloyal. They are building a new world, and they are demanding a new politics that invites everyone to play. They are, in fact, doing exactly what we feminists of a certain age once wished for our daughters: thinking for themselves, unburdened by gender.

It may take all of our hard-earned grace and power to learn to respect them for it, but we owe them nothing less.

[tk2kewl]

74. "thinking for themselves, unburdened by gender"

was the first thing my wife mentioned about this article before i asked for the link

[Change has come]

97. That was beautiful!

Thanks so much!

[Cleita]

28. You and I are probably of the same generation and I couldn't agree more. eom.

[tk2kewl]

76. late boomer/ early genXer

me 50, wife 48

[Cleita]

79. Oops! Not the same generation. I was born in 1940.

However, we are of the same mind.

[tk2kewl]

81. FDR Dem like my Dad then I bet

[Cleita]

82. Yes, I remember him too although I was a kid.

My grandmother worshipped the ground he walked on because he rescued her from dire poverty with Social Security and my cousin whom she raised with the CCC which he joined when he graduated from high school, the first to in my family.

[Beausoir]

29. That doesn't even make any sense. n/t

[Cleita]

30. It makes sense, common sense.

But as a wag once said, "Common sense seems to be very uncommon."

[panader0]

43. Here's a heart from a Bernie voter.

[greymouse]

32. not conpetent

I still am waiting to hear why people think Hillary is competent.

She made a mess of foreign affairs when she was Secretary of State. She took a middle class country, Libya, that had ended its nuclear weapons program and reached out to the West, that had free healthcare and free education through college, and a semblance of equal rights for women, and she gutted its central government and turned it into an ISIS civil war hellhole.

She and Bill have messed up Haiti.

She is more to the right than the Likud.

She couldn't get healthcare through a Congress less polarized than the current one when Bill was President.

She sleeps with Wall Street.

And I'm not even counting the character defects.

I'm listening. All I hear is crickets.

[Joe Chi Minh]

34. Very shrewd post, if I may say so.

[tularetom]

40. Her career path really isn't much of a model for feminists

1. Marry a guy with political ambitions.

2. Use your husbands elected office to get a job with a fancy law firm and appointments to corporate boards of directors.

3. After your husband gets elected president, fail at the single issue you take on.

4. After your husband leaves office, seek elected office and win based on name recognition and lack of a viable opponent.

5. Attempt and fail to secure your party's nomination for president.

6. Use your husband's connections to weasel your way into a high visibilty position in the administration of the president who defeated you.

7. Do a mediocre job, but make sure you keep your name in the news.

[jillan]

41. It is personal when I say I am so proud of young women when I read or see something like this.

Don't let the Albrights fool you. That is not what we fought for in the 60s 70s.

We just wanted to be an equal part of society, to be respected for our OWN minds & not have our success based upon our looks. We wanted the same opportunities men receive in society. No one ever wanted women to walk lock step with each other.

So when I read something like this, my heart swells. It shows me that "we've come a long way, baby". (ironic that 70s saying ended up in a cigarette ad!)
Stay strong woman & never let anyone tell you how to think or what you should or shouldn't do, just because you are a woman.

[malthaussen]

53. Not ironic, quite deliberate.

And remember Eve cigarettes, that were developed to target the female community because the package was pretty? I laugh to say I knew a woman for whom that strategy worked perfectly.

It's a good example of the unintended consequence, IMO. Feminism became chic enough that the merchants of death decided to specifically target women for their product, using a feminist slogan. Which proves, I guess, that Madison Avenue will use whatever seems expedient to push a few more units.

-- Mal

[tblue37]

99. Like the "Bic for Her" pens:

http://static.amazon.com/BIC-Cristal-For-Her-Ball-Pen-1-0mm-Black-16ct-MSLP16-Blk/dp/B004F9QBE6

Elegant design - just for her!
Thin barrel to fit a woman's hand
Medium 1.0 mm point, Black ink
Medium 1.0 mm point
Black ink

(emphasis added)

[DI Freighter Watcher]

121. Agree

As a feminist I fought for womens equality and free will, not to bond them to my ideology with a debt of gratitude. Isnt uplifting the next generation the gift we leave them with when our time has passed?

[CharlotteVale]

48. This old bad at math feminist totally agrees.

[treestar]

52. What an idiot

LOL. Should we wait for a male led revolution to change the rules to a female paradigm? This is hilarious.

If Hillary is good as a man at playing that game, good for her. That's what feminism mostly was about. Women doing thing limited previously to men.

[malthaussen]

55. You miss the point.

I think it is an important one. The article argues that the rising generation does not want someone who excels at business as usual. They want to change the paradigm of politics. They have already assimilated feminism -- which would be a grand and glorious thing, if true.

-- Mal

[treestar]

56. Sounds like a vague Revolution

that ain't happening.

[malthaussen]

60. Could be.

But if that is the perception, it is useful to know.

-- Mal

[snort]

61. Shasta is brilliant.

Her point could not have been made clearer for me.

[JoeyT]

68. From what I can tell feminist women are split

down more or less exactly the same lines everyone else is in the primary. Most of the younger ones want Bernie, most of the older ones want Clinton.

[Beausoir]

83. Feminist women are not actually split.

Sheltered entitled twitter-brats who grew up being force-fed a steady diet of anti-Democratic Anti-Hillary talking points are happily hopping down the bunny-trail following another old white entitled man.

The vast majority of us are still in the trenches. Fighting for the rights of women. Equal pay, paid family leave, reproductive choice.

[demmiblue]

90. .

[SheilaT]

75. Hillary Clinton is hardly

that female politician who has proven herself adept in D.C. for decades

.

As noted above, she ran for the Senate twice, and won both times thanks to extremely weak opponents and extremely strong name recognition. She then failed at her run for President.

Being First Lady is hardly the same as winning elective office on your own. Perhaps this is why she's so incredibly bad at her campaigns for President: she simply does not understand the difference between running for President (or Governor) yourself, and being the spouse of someone in that office.

[Odin2005]

80. The way Clinton is pushing the basest form of identity politics disgusts me.

"If you don't vote for the woman candidate you are a sexist pig" is a terrible argument.

[liberal_at_heart]

91. That is exactly how my Millennial daughter feels.

She does not approve of playing by the corrupt rules. And yes, she feels those corrupt rules are keeping her down right now. The corrupt rules are anti-feminist and need to be changed not played by.

[Beausoir]

92. So she will support another old white man who has been in power for 25 years and has

done absolutely NOTHING to further women's rights?

I have 3 daughters and I thank god every day that they are smarter than that.

My daughters are smart enough to realize than another old white man who has been suckling at the Washington teat for 26 years is NOT the kind of man they need to be following.

[Bohemianwriter]

102. But a woman who has been suckling at the tits...

of the American people AND corporate donors for the last 25 years is?

So what exactly has Hillary done for women in specific the last 25 years?

Or minorities?

Or LGBTQ?

[840high]

120. ..+1

[Hissyspit]

107. Responding here, just FYI.

I met tk2kewl's rocker-girl wife at the Washington Monument during one of the anti-Iraq War rallies around 2005-6.

[liberal_at_heart]

109. going on my ignore list. Good bye.

[tk2kewl]

94. huh? my wife who is laying in bed beside me right now is imaginary?

the woman who just had the mediport for her chemo removed this afternoon? go fuck yourself

[tk2kewl]

96. what the hell is with the quotes and caps?

and btw... the hillary hacks can't even get the bullshit straight. didn't you hear Bernie Bros are fake http://www.democraticunderground.com/110749082

[Change has come]

100. What a strange response.

Wow.

We need an :awkward...slowly backing away smilie:

[Art_from_Ark]

116. There's always this smilie

[Electric Monk]

101. Au revoir Beausoir. Getting 5 hides in 4 days is quite a feat, almost as if you were trying.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=117089&sub=trans

[840high]

104. Shucks - I didn't get

a chance to say bon voyage.

[Electric Monk]

106. They just got 2 more hides, making it 5 today alone, and the account is now flagged for review.

I have to wonder what they were thinking. Maybe they wanted to go out in a "blaze of glory"?

They're still no Walt Starr.

[ms liberty]

117. Walt Starr, bwaaaahaaaa!

Legendary!

[neverforget]

105. The jury is in on the post you replied to

On Thu Feb 18, 2016, 12:50 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

My condolences to your "ROCKER-GIRL-WIFE"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1261827

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

They already had 4 hides today for being rude. I think they're trying to get hides. Let's give them what they want and hide this, too.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=117089&sub=trans

JURY RESULTS

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Feb 18, 2016, 12:54 AM, and the Jury voted 5-2 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: pizza please
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Hateful. HIDE
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

Going for the record maybe? I'm juror #3.

[tk2kewl]

110. sad

i rarely get upset at anything around here, but if someone is "trying" to get hides why do it at the expense of someones family.

[neverforget]

111. looks like they want to be banned

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1261516

"I might as well tell truth to power in one fell swoop." That'll teach DU!

[tk2kewl]

112. they hit 8 hides since monday before it was all said on done

they could've accomplished that without attacking me and my wife

[neverforget]

114. I know and I'm sorry about that.

[tk2kewl]

115. thanks

[ms liberty]

118. Some people are assholes

breast cancer survivor here, 19 years. Autocorrect just tried to change that to "breastfeeding", lol. Unintentional hilarity.

[Uncle Joe]

103. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, tk2kewl.