2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumConstant attacks on Hillary Clinton around here are radical, off the rails, and ridiculous.
What wild-eyed radical nonsense.
"Hillary destroyed feminism."
"Hillary is trying to destroy Bernie's character."
"Hillary's Democratic Senate supporters are corrupt."
And on and on this nonsense goes.
And all this from people who are supporting a candidate who has pledged repeatedly to SUPPORT Hillary if she is the nominee. These attacks are off the rails of reality, plain and simple.
hoosierlib
(710 posts)What did you expect?
RBInMaine
(13,570 posts)Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)enabled by irrationality. It would arouse sympathy and concern if it wasn't paired with endless hostile attacks and scurrilous libels. Which came first? Hostility borne of irrationality or irrationality borne of need for a target for hostility? And why on earth did these people choose the single person most disliked and feared by the GOP and ultraconservative plutocrats (Hillary!) as their target ALSO?
BeanMusical
(4,389 posts)Your post doesn't make much sense, especially since you are replying to someone who posted: +1 in support of someone else who was supporting another post that has nothing to do with what you are talking about, which is pure word salad to begin with.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)working alongside the very forces they claim to oppose. Rational people really opposing the ultraconservative threat to our country would shoot AT them, not try to take out their current single biggest enemy FOR them.please
These actions call their professed goals into question, to put it mildly. It is possible to support Sanders without endorsing right-wing lies about the Democrats. They reject that course.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)that aren't formed from "right wing lies," don't you?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)is so huge and out of proportion that it is not credible as honest disrespect. I have my own areas of disrespect, and many people I feel have earned it, including Hillary, and I know what disrespect is.
Something else is involved here, something that causes people to take all the blame from many and pile it on one woman. I'm not a psychologist and I have no idea why this one victim was chosen, why so many chose to swallow all the right-wing lies and slurs and propaganda that they and others could get hold of to build a really silly loathing, but IMO there is a profound self-indulgence to all this -- and a profound willful/determined ignorance and dishonesty that generate both bemused wonder and profound disrespect from many observers.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)and dishonesty that generate both bemused wonder and profound disrespect from many observers."
Nailed it. Thank you.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)hoosierlib
(710 posts)Early on in her career she did, but she sure did make herself wealthy lobbying for her "constituents" both during and after her stint as Senator...
A hyperbolic post eating its own tail.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)Helped a lot of folks.....all named Walton.
lark
(23,105 posts)Have you researched Clinton's time at Walmart? Bet you didn't because then you'd know that she used her position to get them to move a lot of their procurement to the US from China. That was her terms for being on the board and Sam agreed. Walmart didn't become the evil worker destroying place it is now until after Hillary left the Board and Sam died. It's his children who are evil vampire mutants. Hillary hasn't been part of this new era as you are trying to erroneously claim.
Oh, BTW, I'm voting for Bernie in the primary. Just can't stand for Dems to lie about other Dems out of ignorance and hate. She's done enough stuff that's real and not good for the 1%, don't need to make stuff up.
creatives4innovation
(98 posts)Here are some excerpts from a PBS article entitled Secrets - Wal-Mart and China: A Joint Venture
According to Ortega, Walton himself estimated that imports accounted for nearly 6 percent of Wal-Mart's total sales in 1984. But another observer of that period, Frank Yuan, a former Taiwan-based apparel middleman, who dealt with Wal-Mart in the 1980s, puts the number, including indirect imports, at around 40 percent from "day one." Either way, Walton's vision was a harbinger of far vaster global sourcing today.
...Even as Wal-Mart was pushing its U.S. suppliers to be more efficient and promoting its "Buy American" program through the '80s, the company bought more and more from Asia, according to Jay Moates, a former accountant with Wal-Mart's overseas buying operation.
...As PREL provided Wal-Mart cover for its Asian buying, Walton could both continue promoting his "Buy American" campaign at home and expand his overseas procurement out of PREL in Hong Kong.
But several months after Walton's death in April 1992, the "Buy American" campaign backfired when Wal-Mart became the target of a Dateline NBC expose that revealed "Buy American" signs adorning piles of imported goods from Asia. Overnight, an embarrassed Wal-Mart de-emphasized the "Buy American" campaign.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)Talk about unicorns and sparkle pony's
She helped write the TPP. She supported NAFTA and the other crap that Wild Bill did to move us to the right.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)Bernie is not the people. He has been in Congress for decades, which makes him the definition of the establishment.
And in all those years in Congress, he has had no success in getting legislation or reforms passed that do anything to curtail corporations or do any of the things he is promising, though he has been hawking his message against corporations for a long, long time.
This persona of Bernie being the crusader against the corporate establishment has no basis.
hoosierlib
(710 posts)The corporate interests have been in control of parties for decades. Bernie railed against the repeal Glass-Steagall, was against NAFTA, was against CAFTA and the TPP.
And what establishment are talk about? Bernie has been a independent politician since he started running for office. He caucused with Democrats once he become a Congressman. He has beholden to no one except the voters.
As for Hillary, 350+ super delegates and the backing of the corporate America says otherwise.
And yes, it is an insurrection...and Hillary wins because the party establishment tipped the scales, many of us will NOT vote for her or any other corporate puppet...
Squinch
(50,955 posts)Gender equality, racial equality, LGBT equality, etc are not worthy of your effort?
And PS, if it is an insurrection, doesn't there need to be a groundswell? In the primaries so far, the voter turnout has been lower than previous primaries.
hoosierlib
(710 posts)And its not wealth envy...I do quite well for myself. It's more a matter of fairness and merit. The current system favors those with money and good health. How is someone supposed to overcome their genetics or the socio-economic situation in to which they are born? Effort alone is not enough.
Whose programs or policy proposals do a better job of addressing thise issues? Bernie's by far.
And if Hillary is the nominee...she will lose...
Already unstrusted by independents and moderates...
Bernie is the party's best option...
Response to Squinch (Reply #21)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Squinch
(50,955 posts)earthshine
(1,642 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)earthshine
(1,642 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)king was wealthy.
It isn't a disqualifier for me. YMMV.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)I used to like her. Was thrilled that she went from being first lady to being my senator in New York.
In 2008, I supported Hillary for president. But, I found her campaigning to be dishonest and vile. I switched to Obama.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Is that REALLY so hard to understand? Really?
Carolina
(6,960 posts)ain't no FDR or JFK
eridani
(51,907 posts)Clinton is a follower on all of those issues as well.
Perogie
(687 posts)Here are just some of Bernie's success in congress.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-gets-it-done-sanders-record-pushing-through-major-reforms-will-surprise-you
Again this is just an example. Try the google.....lol
Squinch
(50,955 posts)Unless you count the one that says that corporations convicted of a crime have to inform those who were affected by the crime. Which is nice, but corporations already had to do that under other already existing laws.
There isn't much in that list for a 25 year career in Congress, but there are some nice things.
A little money here and there to a worthy cause.
A nice one time bump to health care centers (doesn't hold a candle to Hillary getting permanent health care for millions of kids and getting the National Guard insured.)
There are a lot of achievements in that list that boil down to Bernie pushing amendments to say people shouldn't do things that are already illegal.
But none of the things on that list actually does anything to hinder the corporate establishment.
geologic
(205 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)Tell me one major thing he did to curtail the corporate establishment in 25 years in Congress.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)other than take fees from them.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)the corporate establishment.
In 25 years in Congress, here are the three acts that Bernie sponsored that became law:
S.893 - The Veteran's Compensation Cost of Living Adjustment Act of 2013
S.885 - A Bill to Designate the Facility of the United States Postal Service Located At 1 Marble Street in Fair Haven, Vermont, as the "Matthew Lyon Post Office Building"
H.R. 5245 - "To Designate the Facility of the United States Postal Service Located At 1 Marble Street in Fair Haven, Vermont, as the "Matthew Lyon Post Office Building"
Now, I understand that a record is based on more than that, but if he is going to be leading a revolution, I would expect a little more than that.
If I were the corporate establishment, I wouldn't be that scared.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Response to Squinch (Reply #73)
geologic This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to Squinch (Reply #73)
geologic This message was self-deleted by its author.
geologic
(205 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Sanderss bills and resolutions had 365 cosponsors in the 113th Congress. Securing cosponsors is an important part of getting support for a bill, although having more cosponsors does not always mean a bill will get a vote.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)She, and other Hill supporters on this board attack Bernie, but do not actually promote their own candidate.
And, she's not very good at it.
To me, Bernie has been one of the few voices of reason in the Senate, whether or not bills get passed.
Have a heart, on me.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)nyabingi
(1,145 posts)to remember that for a very long time (until last year actually), Bernie was considered a fringe outsider who just happened to caucus with the Democrats. As a former C-SPAN junkie, I remember seeing Bernie over the years giving impassioned speeches to often empty chambers on Congress and bringing forth legislation that no one paid attention to. My how times have changed.
Politicians are ultimately swayed by what is politically palatable at the given time, and there is not any time in the past 25-30 years or so when the ideas Bernie has always espoused were popular and talked about nationally...until now. Most politicians take vast sums of money from private interests because they want to keep their seats and their power, but public sentiment and mood will trump the money they receive from special interests because you can't take special interest money if the people won't vote you back in office.
Of course many of Bernie's ideas haven't been popular, and many have stood no chance of even being brought to the full Congress, let alone being passed into law. But that was more a sign of the political landscape of those times, not the inefficacy of Bernie's ability to get things passed.
What Bernie has consistently and doggedly presented to the nation is now politically popular, so much so that Republican-lite candidates like Hillary Clinton are trying to pass themselves off as "progressive". When politicians are under huge pressure from their constituents to vote a certain way, the stranglehold of corporate money begins to ease up.
Corporate America is afraid right now because they are not only faced with a popular candidate who is determined to rein them in, but they are faced with an angry population who have had enough of corporate domination of all aspects of our existence.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)She is part of Bill Clinton's legacy (the two for one, the 8 years of 'experience'): NAFTA, Telecommunications Bill of 1996, Welfare Reform (not), Three Strikes, overturning Glass-Steagall, etc. She and Bill kept Alan Greenspan at the Fed, placed the then Mr. Goldman Sucks himself Robert Reuben as head of Treasury and hired as financial advisor that abominable Wall Streeter Larry Summers (who lost a $billion from Harvard's endowment!). Those three crashed the economy:
And we, the people (the little people, lots of women and children), reaped the whirlwind of that 1999 Act which ended Glass-Steagall and for which every repuke in the Senate voted AYE while every Dem -- save one -- voted NAY. Bill signed it into law anyway, paying no heed to the canary-in-the-mine Dems who said that this dastardly new law would lead to disaster 10 years hence. Sure enough it did, harming women and families throughout the land. And Wall Street, Hillary's BFF, continues to be such a benefactor for women!
In the Senate, what did she DO? What legislation or amendments to legislation illustrate her initiative or activism on behalf of women and children. The aye votes for IWR, the Patriot Act and Bush's Bankruptcy bill sure were a big help to us all!
Then there was her abysmal management and nasty conduct during the 2008 primary campaign. She had the money, she had the name, she was entitled, she was "in it to win it" and so arrogant that she claimed it would be over by Super Tuesday. But when it wasn't and she was losing, she resorted to the gutter. She praised McCain and derided Obama as someone who only gave pretty speeches. And when the Party urged her to bow out gracefully, she said that she was going to stay in the race through the CA primary because "you never know... remember Bobby Kennedy..." Her insinuation (a veiled wish?) that Obama might be assassinated like RFK was beyond classless and tasteless. It was evil (google Keith Olbermann on that atrocity). And when she finally, gracelessly bowed out, she did so on condition that the Obama organization and DNC pay off her campaign debt. Some management skills, just like her Wall Street benefactors who f--- things up, then expect others to pay for the disaster created.
As SOS, she was also terrible. Honduras, Libya and Syria are a mess. But HRC, the consummate pro-MIC corporatist, never saw a war she didn't like. And last I checked, war is not good for women, children or men!
Now in 2016, HRC is in kitchen sink mode. The surrogates have been unleashed. They have insulted young women for going where the boys are and damned all women who dont support the anointed one. They are impugning the opponents integrity and record on Civil Rights and there is more and worse to come. This is 2008 redux with added shock and awe.
This is HRC's history. So, please tell me what she has DONE that is positive or constructive? What is this record she always harkens back to in her me, me, me, mine, mine, mine debate responses and that her supporters mimic? She's in it for herself, she plays sexist gender politics, she lies about her alleged record, she changes her mind with the political winds, she panders, she pads her pockets, and she is the worst sort of Democrat... a founder of the DLC and a triangulator to her core.
Oilwellian
(12,647 posts)jonestonesusa
(880 posts)Waiting for a pro-Clinton response that addresses this. That's what primary season is about.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)Here is an article that talks about some of her accomplishments. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/09/carly-fiorina-debate-hillary-clintons-greatest-accomplishment-213157
The SCHIP program was a VERY big deal and Kennedy, who authored it, said "The childrens health program wouldnt be in existence today if we didnt have Hillary pushing for it from the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue."
This article doesn't include the cease fire she brokered between Hamas and Israel, the increase that she authored to the FMLA that was rolled into the defense reauthorization of 2008. It doesn't include the coverage she got with her old enemy Lindsay Graham for National Guard reservists and retirees http://www.nbcnews.com/id/9063246/ns/politics-tom_curry/t/hillary-care-uniform/#.VsDt4XldHIU It doesn't include that she was on the advisory committee to President Obama that led to the killing of Osama Bin Laden.
Here's some more things not on that list:
◾Helped found Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a group dedicated to the betterment of childrens lives by advocating for their health, well-being, and education.
◾Attorney at the Childrens Defense Fund leveling the playing field for children
◾Director of Legal Aid Clinic at the University of Arkansas School of Law
◾Created Arkansass Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth because she saw a need for educating young children. Bringing HIPPY to Arkansas enabled parents to be their childs first teacher and prepare them for a life of learning.
These next are a little fuzzy, and I don't feel like looking up exactly what her role was. But feel free:
◾Played a leading role in creation of the Adoption and Safe Families Act and the Foster Care Independence Act
◾Successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health
◾Helped investigate the affects of Gulf War Syndrome of the Veterans afflicted
◾Created the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice
◾Initiated and helped guide the Adoption and Safe Families Act helping in children in foster care move faster in to permanent homes
These three were big deals:
◾Declared to the United Nations that womens rights are human rights which at the time she said it, was a very big deal
◾Commissioner on the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe
◾With Chuck Schumer, secured $21 billion in funding for the World Trade Center sites redevelopment
AND... She won a Grammy!
There is more, but there's a start for you of her accomplishments.
If you are going to hold the things that Bill did against her, I have nothing to say about that.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Carolina
(6,960 posts)Whatever she did ( along time ago) as atty for the CDF, was undone by her and Bill's Welfare Reform Act. That law led CDF founder Marian Wright Edelman's husband Peter to resign in protest from his position as under secretary of DHHS in the Clinton Administration.
Getting funding for rebuilding the WTC was something that Congress would have done anyway... so I am not impressed
CHIP was a collaboration with Teddy Kennedy, the true 'liberal lion' of the Senate. He was the likely mover and shaker behind it and also humble enough to share the glory with HRC.
Bottom line: her coziness with Wall Street, her vote for IWR, her support of the TPP and fracking, her tenure at State -- all the recent history -- show who HRC is today and why her record is shady and her judgment deeply flawed!
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)world stage was women, children and families.
Now Bernie has done EXACTLY NOTHING to accomplish his stated goals.
Hillary has done quite a lot to accomplish hers.
You still haven't provided a list of Bernie's accomplishments. I'll broaden it out. ANY KIND of accomplishment. Show me ANYTHING he has gotten done.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)so ok. But for your own edification, do go look it up.
Bernie has done NOTHING. And will continue to do NOTHING.
Deny it all you like, but the record - or lack of record - is out there.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)You want to pretend her record isn't shit fine. Play in your own bubble.
What it really boils down to.
I will not under any circumstance vote for Hillary. I will write in Bernie's name if thats my only option.
Get it padre?
You can spin shit day and night, any way you like.
Please continue.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)of this election is that a Republican shouldn't take the Presidency.
So your plans don't surprise me at all.
Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)One only needs to look to Bernie's chairmanship of the VA Senate Committee to see how little impact he has had.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)kristopher
(29,798 posts)From the Sept 2014 journal "Perspectives on Politics"
Testing Theories of American Politics: Elites, Interest Groups, and Average Citizens
Martin Gilens and Benjamin I. Page
ABSTRACT
A great deal of empirical research speaks to the policy influence of one or another set of actors, but until recently it has not been possible to test these contrasting theoretical predictions against each other within a single statistical model. We report on an effort to do so, using a unique data set that includes measures of the key variables for 1,779 policy issues.
Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence. The results provide substantial support for theories of Economic-Elite Domination and for theories of Biased Pluralism, but not for theories of Majoritarian Electoral Democracy or Majoritarian Pluralism.
The last paragraph of their findings:
"...Americas claims to being a democratic society are seriously threatened."
If you'd like to see how this is viewed by others, the press gave it a fair amount of coverage when it came out.
For example, http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/is-america-an-oligarchy
Squinch
(50,955 posts)kristopher
(29,798 posts)Quote: "It is not a civil war. It is not the corporatist establishment against the people."
- Squinch 9:05 A.M. post #13
Squinch
(50,955 posts)Because Bernie HAS DONE and WILL DO exactly nothing of what he is saying he will do against the "corporatist establishment."
The situation described in your article will not be changed one iota by Bernie.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)She " HAS DONE and WILL DO exactly nothing" because of those millions.
Bernie's views and his intent to act should he be elected, on the other hand, are deeply rooted in sound principles and a vast body of accumulated knowledge.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)they spread so fast and you don't even have to think about it...just repeat it over and over and over.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Establishment politics is the two party system run by money. Bernie has always been an Independent...independent of the establishment, and his whole life he has fought against the establishment of the two party system that is run for the wealthy and not the 99%.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Not the facts.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)In 25 years in Congress, 3 of his sponsored bills have been enacted.
Three.
Two were to name the same post office.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)Most are bills he voted for. That's good, but he didn't write them and he is not responsible for them.
A lot of the language is very squirrelly. For example:
The Audit the Fed act he "worked with Ron Paul" on didn't pass. Neither did the legislation to "break up the big banks." I agree that he introduces a lot of legislation, and it sounds good. But he knows they're never going to pass. They're kind of a kubuki act. You may think of that as an accomplishment, but I don't.
Lots of it has to do with tweaks he contributed to the ACA, along with many, many other people. And now he's trashing the ACA. SO what's that about?
The accomplishment of being Chairman of the Veteran Affairs committee? He should probably not be listing that as an accomplishment, given that he ignored the VA scandal for years.
The LIHEAP thing is great. But he didn't create LIHEAP. It's been around for decades. He did get 17 million dollars for Vermont, which is great. But again, not revolutionary.
I could go on, but you get the idea.
I know you are going to respond by saying something to the effect that "nothing would be good enough for me." But if you honestly look at what he has done, you have to admit that it isn't much for 25 years in Congress.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)especially since his fight has been against the system the whole time he has been "in" the system. So you need to compare him to someone who has fought his same issues.
Thank you.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)idea that he is capable of leading a revolution against that same system that you are saying tied his hands for 25 years.
My answer is no.
passiveporcupine
(8,175 posts)Lots of it has to do with tweaks he contributed to the ACA, along with many, many other people. And now he's trashing the ACA. SO what's that about?
Seriously? If you have to ask this, you haven't been paying attention.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)sgmcenroe
(30 posts)He uses the amendment process to change and better bills, and has often even gotten improvements on GOP bills.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)link above it that lists his amendment achievements.
Yes. There are a few very nice things in that list, but it certainly isn't very impressive for 25 years in Congress, and its certainly nothing groundshaking.
creatives4innovation
(98 posts)Sanders sponsored and co-sponsored over 6,000 bills in the House and Senate; he introduced 5,286 of those bills. 704 made it out of Committee; 206 became law.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)office.
Co-sponsoring is nice, but it means that he didn't write them, he just agreed with them. And you will find that during her tenure in the Senate, Hillary co-sponsored the vast majority of the same bills as Bernie.
And co-sponsoring is not really revolutionary.
creatives4innovation
(98 posts)While a member of the U.S. Senate, Clinton sponsored 713 pieces of legislation. Of these, three became law. The three were: establishes the Kate Mullany National Historic Site in Troy, NY, names post office after Major George Quamo, named U.S. Route Highway after late journalist, Tim Russert. Source.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)the fact that her accomplishments have been in cooperation with others, and that is her advantage.
Here is an article that talks about some of her accomplishments. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/09/carly-fiorina-debate-hillary-clintons-greatest-accomplishment-213157
The SCHIP program was a VERY big deal and Kennedy, who authored it, said "The childrens health program wouldnt be in existence today if we didnt have Hillary pushing for it from the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue."
This article doesn't include the cease fire she brokered between Hamas and Israel, the increase that she authored to the FMLA that was rolled into the defense reauthorization of 2008. It doesn't include the coverage she got with her old enemy Lindsay Graham for National Guard reservists and retirees http://www.nbcnews.com/id/9063246/ns/politics-tom_curry/t/hillary-care-uniform/#.VsDt4XldHIU It doesn't include that she was on the advisory committee to President Obama that led to the killing of Osama Bin Laden.
Here's some more things not on that list:
◾Helped found Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a group dedicated to the betterment of childrens lives by advocating for their health, well-being, and education.
◾Attorney at the Childrens Defense Fund leveling the playing field for children
◾Director of Legal Aid Clinic at the University of Arkansas School of Law
◾Created Arkansass Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth because she saw a need for educating young children. Bringing HIPPY to Arkansas enabled parents to be their childs first teacher and prepare them for a life of learning.
These next are a little fuzzy, and I don't feel like looking up exactly what her role was. But feel free:
◾Played a leading role in creation of the Adoption and Safe Families Act and the Foster Care Independence Act
◾Successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health
◾Helped investigate the affects of Gulf War Syndrome of the Veterans afflicted
◾Created the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice
◾Initiated and helped guide the Adoption and Safe Families Act helping in children in foster care move faster in to permanent homes
These three were big deals:
◾Declared to the United Nations that womens rights are human rights which at the time she said it, was a very big deal
◾Commissioner on the Commission on Security and Cooperation in Europe
◾With Chuck Schumer, secured $21 billion in funding for the World Trade Center sites redevelopment
AND... She won a Grammy!
There is more, but there's a start for you of her accomplishments
JRLeft
(7,010 posts)basselope
(2,565 posts)"he has been hawking his message against corporations for a long, long time.
This persona of Bernie being the crusader against the corporate establishment has no basis."
That is the very definition of being a crusader against the corporate establishment. The fact that we have a largely corrupt political system that LOVES its corporate donors doesn't change what he has been trying to do.
Bernie is the Serpico of Congress.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)roguevalley
(40,656 posts)Beacool
(30,250 posts)Response to RBInMaine (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
bullimiami
(13,096 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)Bernie supporters know that they can say ANYTHING, and I do mean ANYTHING, and it likely will not be hidden. Hillary supporters know that they can expect regular hides for things that really do not cross any lines.
The combination makes the most loony feel invincible, and they are right in this feeling. It's a kind of group manipulation of the message of the board that requires that each comment against Hillary has to be dopier and more destructive than the last.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Stuckinthebush
(10,845 posts)Spot on.
geologic
(205 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)rather than the rule.
Anyone taking an honest look at what has been going on here sees this.
I call "bullshit" right back at ya.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1107&pid=30492
Multiple posts saying that this was disgusting and needed to be hidden WERE hidden.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)go as batshit crazy as they want, and their friends back them up and let it happen.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)I'd have voted to hide it. Seriously, the fella needs to be banned from DU.
But, if vacuousness or bellicosity were alert-worthy offenses, I'd vote to hide most of yours.
Tearing down Sanders does not elevate Hillary. It does not contribute to a productive conversation.
What is the point? Do you think you will change any minds with your always-negative posts?
Squinch
(50,955 posts)complaining about it. The four of us got hides. That post was never hidden.
And as for your other comments, I guess you think your posts are sunshine and roses? Seriously, this is another Sanders supporter thing I have noticed. They project A LOT!
earthshine
(1,642 posts)That post could be seen as a real embarrassment to Sanders' supporters.
I am far from sunshine and roses. Definitely more of a cynical complainer, who really does not know how to solve the world's problems.
This is a large reason why I'm on the DU. I'm looking for solutions.
But, I do know that the very mutual vitriol between the two Democratic camps adds to the problems.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... being abused to silence critics. It's really a shame and doesn't reflect well on those who do this. (I could go on, but, well ... you know why not.)
geologic
(205 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Nice try, though.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)Response to Squinch (Reply #183)
Fawke Em This message was self-deleted by its author.
Bobbie Jo
(14,341 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)JRLeft
(7,010 posts)Squinch
(50,955 posts)Odin2005
(53,521 posts)It is the Hillarians censoring us Bernie supporters, not the other way around.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)are about 90-10 in your favor.
Comparing the Democratic frontrunner to Nixon is pretty crappy.
Odin2005
(53,521 posts)Both are politicians who only care about their own power.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)Beacool
(30,250 posts)The only RW talking point I haven't seen used against Hillary is the RW's accusation that she had Vince Foster killed. I'm waiting for that little nugget to be included in a post any minute now.
Therefore, I choose to take everything they say as the rants of a fringe group and ignore them. It's not worth raising one's blood pressure.
As I keep repeating, DU is the mirror image of Free Republic. Same extremism, different party.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)Beacool
(30,250 posts)They really got no scruples or shame.
livetohike
(22,145 posts)that function or the trash function until now.
mcar
(42,334 posts)I never used ignore or trash until this primary season.
Karma13612
(4,552 posts)It's the primaries.
Supporters of candidates are going to vehemently support their candidate and criticize the other.
When the future of this tattered country is at stake, do you blame us?
Do we go to extremes sometimes?
YES
Except for some rare outbursts, I myself am trying to stay on an even keel.
But, it goes both ways. Hillary and her surrogates are in this fight, and getting pretty nasty as well.
After the convention is the time to ask us to come together and save the fights for the GOP
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)our country to another country's soil in order to go to war. She used her power to help take our country to war. Is that a smear? Is that off the rails ridiculous? I read it as factual, but YMMV.
Imagine sending a trained killer into your neighbor's house to kill them because you felt their boss was a dangerous man.
She did that on a grand scale based on shoddy information, information that was being disputed by UN weapons inspectors, from a group of neocons whose known international proclivities include "preemptive war."
That confluence of circumstances should invalidate any claim to power she might feel she is worthy.
Happyhippychick
(8,379 posts)And it's very disheartening frankly. I rarely come here because of it.
So flame away Bernie people, I expect you will. And I don't really care.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Some of HRC supporters are every bit as mean and nasty and rude as some of Sander's supporters. They've got the hides and timeout to prove it.
You see, that is an unbiased statement. I do have a strong opinion of both candidates.
djean111
(14,255 posts)ridiculous.
As is being ordered, on a daily basis, to support Hillary.
Oh, and the examples you give? IMO are true, not wild-eyed radicalism. Plus - this is the primary season. Get used to it, or ignore it - but accept that you are not the arbiter.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)just puts his hands on his hips, bobs his head back and forth, and repeats everything she says word for word.
It's not effective when 5-year-olds do it and it doesn't work very well here, either.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)On Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:16 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
You sound like the little kid who, not being clever enough to challenge his big sister
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1229865
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Telling a long time poster that they are a 5 year old and acting like one is not appropriate. This type of immature name calling needs to stop.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Feb 14, 2016, 09:22 AM, and the Jury voted 0-7 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Empowerer is right. And it's another example of trying to hide tame things that Hillary supporters (on this site) say in response to juvenile things Bernie supporters (on this site) say. Leave it.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Thanks for the support.
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)malletgirl02
(1,523 posts)While I don't think the alerted post should have been hidden, it was the post that was juvenile, not the Bernie supporter's post he was responding to.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)geologic
(205 posts)malletgirl02
(1,523 posts)A Clinton supporter poster the DU jury results, one of the comments claimed that the alerted post was in response to a juvenile comment by a Sanders supporter. I looked at the comment and the Sander's supporter's comment was not at all juvenile. If anything it was the alerted post by the Clinton supporter that was juvenile attack.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)hobbit709
(41,694 posts)Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)RBInMaine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
230. Hillary will say ANYTHING and do ANYTHING to win. STINKING ROTTEN !!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5168167
Broward
(1,976 posts)Looks like we're getting trolled.
LuvLoogie
(7,011 posts)still_one
(92,217 posts)geologic
(205 posts)betsuni
(25,537 posts)The only ones who are fooled are the other parrots.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)In fact, happy to kick!
99Forever
(14,524 posts)The parasitic rich or We the People.
Easy, peasy.
I know who gets my vote and it isn't the entitled, entrenched, worthless, corrupt establishment.
See if you can change my mind.
Go for it.
I dare you.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
jalan48
(13,870 posts)Myrina
(12,296 posts)Seriously.
casperthegm
(643 posts)But rather than general comments that lead to hurtful back and forth, I'll do you a favor and list exactly why I am not a supporter of Clinton. See below and feel free to engage in a meaningful conversation based on the actual issues. This is where I usually hear crickets from the Clinton supporters.
Her position on Keystone (or lack of one). She waited until the same week that Obama made his decision before announcing where she stood. That's not standing up for the environment. That's politics.
Wall Street money. Whether it's impression or reality, it's there and it can't help but make me wonder. Generally speaking, it's hard to imagine the banks and Wall Street throwing all of that money at her and saying "here you go, we don't expect anything in return."
Her opposition to Glass Stegall. Though I do recall her telling the banks to "cut it out." Thanks Hillary.
Her Iraq vote. You may be sick of hearing about it but it's a big deal. It was poor judgement and lack of foresight. Sanders saw that it would destabilize the region. And it did. Now we not have the legacy of the Iraq war, we have the current ISIS situation.
Speaking of that, there is the no-fly zone proposal. Another poor foreign policy decision. What happens when Russian jets cross that line? You have to be prepared for that and I don't see it.
The email and server investigation by the FBI. Sorry, it's real. It very well could end up being nothing in the end, but what if it's not? What if it drags on until the general election and then she gets indicted? Then you end up with a republican in the White House.
Gay marriage. You can see how she has flip flopped over the years, as confirmed via politifact. Another change based on the political winds.
All of this and more have led me to distrust her judgement and her authenticity.
azureblue
(2,146 posts)And the people posting this crap must think we're a bunch of stupid 6th grade boys. All they are doing is making themselves look stupid and desperate. If you think wild accusations, name calling and mudslinging will get your candidate a win, you are wrong.
My grandfather,who was an old line pol, told me this "if you haven't got anything to run on, no track record, if you have things to keep hidden, then sling mud, engage in character assassination, and maybe the idiots will fall for it and ignore the fact that your candidate isn't fit or qualified to hold office. So, to the posters of this crap, are you saying, by slinging mud, that your candidate isn't fit to hold office?
You want a "discussion"? Then stop the mud slinging and discuss facts that are relevant to fixing America. Talk about why your own candidate is better, what their plans for the future are... Show the track record. Tell the facts about your candidate. But if you can't do that then GTFO.
betsuni
(25,537 posts)She is very busy!
Dem2
(8,168 posts)Last edited Sun Feb 14, 2016, 11:50 AM - Edit history (1)
I like both candidates, but I first have to trash 10-20 slanderous attack threads before I open anything here. 90% of these are over-the-top fox-news-like attacks. Edit: to clarify, a small percentage of those I trash are attacks on Bernie, but Hillary enjoys the majority of the slanderous garbage dumped here.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)DFW
(54,403 posts)If there's a point to be made, I can see that, whether I agree with it or not. But make it and move on.
If it's made a few dozen times a day, it's not a point to be made any more. It's an infomercial. More than likely, one that is paid for, and designed to be made so often as to dull the senses of anyone who is left undecided (such as yours truly). I say the same for attacks on Sanders. Is Hillary burying him in the polls in South Carolina? That's nice. Tell me once, and I'll listen. Tell me twenty times, and I won't. ANY post with "corporatist" in it is one I just glide over. Nothing to read here that hasn't been posted three hundred times already in the last week. It's like hearing "liberal" on Fox Noise.
If all you have to offer is to shout the same thing a few hundred times a month, and no one is paying you to do it, then I'm sure there are plenty of Republican sites that cater to that level of discourse. Judging from the last "debate," if it could seriously be called that, they seem to get off on that sort of thing. I find it to be about as intriguing as watching paint dry.
malletgirl02
(1,523 posts)It goes both ways, Hillary Clinton supporters are not innocent either.
Bohemianwriter
(978 posts)If you support your candidate's mudslinging, don't expect people to shut up about it, while complaining about attacks on her while defending attacks on others characters...
NOT a good way to attract Bernie supporters if your candidate gets selected by superdelegates over votes..
What a candidate pledges, is not making it compulsory for all his supporters to do the same.
So tell us:
What has the Clintons done for minority communities the last 20 years?
Logical
(22,457 posts)riiiiight.
What nonsense.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Sancho
(9,070 posts)We may never know, because it's hard to tell the difference between an anti-Hillary hater, a naive person who falls for an unsubstantiated meme, or a troll from the conservative side. Certainly some attacks on Hillary are identical or parallel stories on the other side, so they are an unreasonable way to describe good Democratic candidates.
The way to tell the difference between truth and fiction is to carefully consider criticisms objectively - and then if your opinion differs that's fine. Instead, some people are so desperate that they stretch the truth, resort to personal attacks, and spread propaganda.
Yes, the anti-Hillary attacks on DU are approaching the level of GOP silliness about Obama (birth certificates, etc.). Even if I like Hillary better than Bernie, I don't think that Bernie is a spy for Israel or that he has millions of dollars stashed in the Cayman Islands! Making up nutty acquisitions is wasting everyone's time.
Character assassination by some posters is likely an attempt to make their candidate "better". All it really does is say something about the judgment of the poster and demeans the candidate they support.
CoffeeCat
(24,411 posts)In my opinion those are the most important reasons for detesting her policies.
She chose Robert Kagan to be one of her most trusted foreign-policy advisors--while she was Secretary of State. Kagan, the founder of PNAC and the grandfather of the neocon movement, has no business anywhere near a Democrat--unless that Democrat is giving them a lecture about how their sociopathic warmongering is driving the country into the ditch.
Hillary's entrenchment in corporate interests is revolting. She's a part of an issue foundational to our democracy. Corporate money is a cancer within our political system that has left our politicians beholden to and serving the corporations--not "We The People." The corporations are winning, as these bought-and-paid-for politicians regulate, deregulate and enrich these corporate interests. If we don't fix this issue--we don't have a democracy.
It's not personal, when it comes to Clinton. I don't know Hillary Clinton. This is business. Her policies are wrong for America.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Corporate money is a cancer within our political system.
Can't be said often enough!!!
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)It seems as if the goal on democratic underground has changed from supporting and electing democrats to destroying the democratic party and all democrats other than BS.
geologic
(205 posts)catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)I won't.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Good post.
sgmcenroe
(30 posts)cleans up its own act it can start acting all high and mighty.
Android3.14
(5,402 posts)Hillary voted for the IWR.
The majority corporate support of her candidacy means she is a puppet of the 1%.
Hillary has no ethical or moral standard for which she stands.
Hillary fails to support publicly funded college, a living wage, and universal healthcare.
Hillary runs a dirty campaign.
Those attacks are the ones that are actually hurting her.
Got it
(59 posts)Her campaign has oozed sleaze. Her judgement is beyond questionable. Her past speaks for itself.
Frankly, I think your outrage is comical.
BlueMTexpat
(15,369 posts)Scalded Nun
(1,236 posts)You are confusing facts with opinion.
She has earned, and continues to earn, the criticism.
The fact that they strike so close to home in their alignment and truth just make them seem like attacks.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)She is part of Bill Clinton's legacy (the two for one, the 8 years of 'experience'): NAFTA, Telecommunications Bill of 1996, Welfare Reform (not), Three Strikes, overturning Glass-Steagall, etc. She and Bill kept Alan Greenspan at the Fed, placed the then Mr. Goldman Sucks himself Robert Reuben as head of Treasury and hired as financial advisor that abominable Wall Streeter Larry Summers (who lost a $billion from Harvard's endowment!). Those three and their brilliant ideas crashed the economy
And we, the people (the little people, lots of women and children), reaped the whirlwind of that 1999 Act which ended Glass-Steagall and for which every repuke in the Senate voted AYE while every Dem -- save one -- voted NAY. Bill signed it into law anyway, paying no heed to the canary-in-the-mine Dems who said that this dastardly new law would lead to disaster 10 years hence. Sure enough it did, harming women and families throughout the land. Meanwhile Wall Street, Hillary's BFF, continues to be such a benefactor for women!
In the Senate, what did she DO? What legislation or amendments to legislation illustrate her initiative or activism on behalf of women and children. The aye votes for IWR, the Patriot Act and Bush's Bankruptcy bill sure were a big help to us all!
Then there was her abysmal management and nasty conduct during the 2008 primary campaign. She had the money, she had the name, she was entitled, she was "in it to win it" and so arrogant that she claimed it would be over by Super Tuesday. But when it wasn't and she was losing, she resorted to the gutter. She praised McCain and derided Obama as someone who only gave pretty speeches. And when the Party urged her to bow out gracefully, she said that she was going to stay in the race through the CA primary because "you never know... remember Bobby Kennedy..." Her insinuation (a veiled wish?) that Obama might be assassinated like RFK was beyond classless and tasteless. It was evil (google Keith Olbermann on that atrocity). And when she finally, gracelessly bowed out, she did so on condition that the Obama organization and DNC pay off her campaign debt. Some management skills, just like her Wall Street benefactors who f--- things up, then expect others to pay for the disaster created.
As SOS, she was also terrible. Honduras, Libya and Syria are a mess. But HRC, the consummate pro-MIC corporatist, never saw a war she didn't like. And last I checked, war is not good for women, children or men!
Now in 2016, HRC is in kitchen sink mode. The surrogates have been unleashed. They have insulted young women for going where the boys are and damned all women who dont support the anointed one. They are impugning the opponents integrity and record on Civil Rights and there is more and worse to come. This is 2008 redux with added shock and awe.
This is HRC's history. So, please tell me what she has DONE that is positive or constructive? What is this record she always harkens back to in her me, me, me, mine, mine, mine debate responses and that her supporters mimic? She's in it for herself, she plays sexist gender politics, she lies about her alleged record, she changes her mind with the political winds, she panders, she pads her pockets, and she is the worst sort of Democrat... a founder of the DLC and a triangulator to her core.
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)The GD-P list. It goes both ways. All
I have to do is look at some of your OPs to find evidence
yourpaljoey
(2,166 posts)Bernie's truth telling is essential.
I want more, much more, not less.
hopeforchange2008
(610 posts)This is similar to LePage's cries that the media is to blame for his being in the headlines, but the fact that he continues to say appalling things is not the media's fault. They are just reporting it like it is.
Hillary is conducting herself and her campaign the same way that she did against Obama in 2008, and it not appealing.
Now, not all Hillary supports are corrupt, but they have an agenda, and it seems as though the attitude is that all's fair even if it is misleading and disingenuous.
earthside
(6,960 posts)And ... I'm not making "wild-eyed" charges against her.
Hillary Clinton is a disaster for the Democratic Party in 2016 because she has been on every side of almost every progressive issue for the past thirty years.
She is consequently untrustworthy and undependable; she is a representative of the upper, upper one percent who parties with Henry Kissinger at the Oscar de la Renta estate -- she is NOT one of us.
Those 'political realities' aren't 'radical' -- they are true and they are not "off the rails of reality".
What is becoming increasingly ridiculous is the notion that Hillary Clinton can win in November.
She is a loser.
BillZBubb
(10,650 posts)There are equally radical attacks on Senator Sanders here. Neither side is acting like angels.
But guess what? That's politics.
If Hillary does win the nomination, what you've seen here is only the tip of the iceberg in what awaits her from the republicans. They are going to run her through the meat grinder. What you consider "radical" attacks will pale in comparison. In a way, getting all her negatives fully aired in the primaries will help inoculate her in the general campaign. The voters will already have been exposed to and processed the information. Giving the republicans no surprise targets of attack is a good situation.
mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)the interesting thing is I don't see how they think immaturity will bring HRC supporters to the other side...which makes me think they are the t-partiers trolling DU....attempting to divide and conquer by insulting both sides....which I suspect is the case
kerry-is-my-prez
(8,133 posts)mgmaggiemg
(869 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)because we all know the nastiest will be gone soon enough.
basselope
(2,565 posts)She deserves it all and a whole lot more for all the blood on her hands.
GreatGazoo
(3,937 posts)'Clinton campaign loses its soul..."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/2/8/1481801/-I-m-Not-with-Her-Hillary-s-Media-Wipeout-Just-Ended-the-Clinton-Era
Time Retracts slander of Sanders:
http://time.com/4220480/bernie-sanders-disputed-civil-rights-photo-1962/
Far beyond DU, in the land of reality....
https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=1484
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Or citation of where your specific examples come from OR the integrity of the sources they allegedly came from.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Or, at least tell her handlers that.
The Clintons don't seem to be able to run a campaign that stays away from destroying feminism, destroying her opponents' character, and the DLC's infusion into democracy with their hand up the ass of every other puppet running against REAL Democrats!
Lorien
(31,935 posts)instead of playing the victim while pulling one dirty trick after another on Bernie? I would support Hillary if it weren't for the issues listed below. If you can convince me, issue by issue, that I, as a liberal Democrat, should vote for her because she'll represent me as a left of center pro-environment, anti war, pro campaign finance reform DEMOCRATIC (which means LEFT of center; if you are right of center, please choose another party) candidate. So let's hear it; what are your defenses for Hillary's positions on:
Iraq
TPP
KXL
Pro arctic drilling
Pro for Profit Prisons
Pro Monsanto
Bankruptcy bill
Voting for a border fence
Saying child migrants should be sent home
Using her position as SoS to push fracking on the rest of the world
Wall Street donations
Six digit speaking fees
Taking money from weapons deals
Honduras
Comments about nuking Iran
Voted to raise credit card interest rates
NAFTA
DOMA
DADT
Opposing gay marriage in New York State
Brownbeck Amendments
Glass-Steagall
No living wage
No free college
No universal health care (ACA coverage gap....ACA will never provide UHC)
No medical Marijuana
Supports mandatory sentencing
Says that she's "proud of" the way Walmart does business
Libya
Yemen
Syria
Egypt
United States-Chile Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act
United States-Singapore Free Trade Agreement Implementation Act
Free trade - Oman agreement
Voted FOR Gitmo. --- Hillary voted against the Byrd ammendment and against a large majority of democrats to reduce Guatanamo funding by $36,000,000. She joined the republican majority against the majority of democrats in supporting Guantanamo.
Pro death penalty
Pro cluster bombing
Took millions from arms dealers, then awarded them huge contracts
Hillary wants to attack Iran: http://www.globalresearch.ca/hillary-clinton-if-im-president-we-will-attack-iran/5460484
Hillary pushed Fracking on the rest of the planet: http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/09/hillary-clinton-fracking-shale-state-department-chevron
Hillary and childhood poverty: http://www.salon.com/2015/10/15/the_worst_thing_hillary_clinton_has_ever_done/
What Hillary calls "feminism" : https://www.jacobinmag.com/2015/03/hillary-clinton-womens-rights-feminism/
How women workers faired at Walmart when Hillary was on it's board:
Hillary takes millions in campaign cash from her "enemies": http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2015/10/14/hillary-takes-millions-in-campaign-cash-from-enemies
Hillary on Gay marriage in 2004: &feature=youtu.be
Hillary open to raising the retirement age and reducing SS benefits: http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2015/10/hillary-clinton-indicates-she-is-open-to-raising-the-retirement-age.html
Bernie has a MUCH better record of accomplishments as Senator than Hillary does: https://pplswar.wordpress.com/2015/10/21/fact-bernie-sanders-got-more-done-in-the-senate-than-hillary-clinton/
When you ask me to vote for Hillary: https://medium.com/@Lookingforrobyn/when-you-ask-me-to-vote-for-hillary-174becdb5ccc#.2ixs3cg5o
Hillary's legacy of pushing the party to the right: http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/33869-hillary-clinton-s-ghosts-a-legacy-of-pushing-the-democratic-party-to-the-right
Chomsky: Democrats are now moderate Republicans: http://trofire.com/2015/09/23/noam-chomsky-dems-are-now-moderate-repugs-republicans-are-now-off-the-spectrum-of-reality/
The political compass finds Bernie to be the most centrist candidate, Hillary falls into the right wing Authoritarian spectrum:: http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2016
Bernie rejects big fundraising events: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/features/2015-03-26/bernie-sanders-hates-money-in-politics-the-very-thing-he-ll-need-to-beat-clinton
Elizabeth Warren on Hillary Clinton: https://www.facebook.com/shaunking/videos/986305904741661/
A comparison of bills put forth by Bernie and Hillary: http://giphy.com/gifs/clinton-vs-sanders-bills-passed-according-to-congressgov-3o6gaQaIZcGAW7hCfu
Hillary helps a bank, which then funnels millions to the Clintons: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/hillary-helps-a-bankand-then-it-pays-bill-15-million-in-speaking-fees/400067/
Under Sanders, incomes and jobs would soar: http://money.cnn.com/2016/02/08/news/economy/sanders-income-jobs/index.ht
Electing Bernie would usher a wave of "Bernie Democrats" into Congress: https://newrepublic.com/article/129047/bernies-army-running-congress
Bernie vows to stop disastrous TPP deal: http://ecowatch.com/2015/10/05/sanders-stop-tpp-deal/
Bernie's foreign policy positions are solid and through: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-foreign-poicy-213619
Hillary's foreign policy record is dismal: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-ritter/hillary-clinton-foreign-policy-record_b_9221284.html
Who could beat Trump? Bernie by a wide margin, while Hillary could lose against him: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/h-a-goodman/bernie-sanders-destroys-donald-trump-by-13-points-6-more-than-clinton-_b_8936840.html
Bernie Sanders would beat Donald Trump 51-38 in a general-election: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/poll-against-bernie-sanders-donald-trump-would-get-schlonged-20151223#ixzz3zvCwk44J
Poll shows that Hillary could easily lose to Trump in the General election: http://www.inquisitr.com/2667052/poll-shows-hillary-clinton-could-easily-lose-to-donald-trump-in-general-election/
Hillary's foreign policy record is a disaster: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-ritter/hillary-clinton-foreign-policy-record_b_9221284.html
Bernie's extensive foreign policy knowledge: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/bernie-sanders-foreign-poicy-213619
Need more details? http://feelthebern.org/bernie-sanders-on-foreign-policy-and-national-security/bernie-sanders-on-foreign-policy/
Let's hear your rebuttals item by item. If you can't do that, then how will you handle what the GOP is going to throw at you?
Carolina
(6,960 posts)She is part of Bill Clinton's legacy (the two for one, the 8 years of 'experience'): NAFTA, Telecommunications Bill of 1996, Welfare Reform (not), Three Strikes, overturning Glass-Steagall, etc. She and Bill kept Alan Greenspan at the Fed, placed the then Mr. Goldman Sucks himself Robert Reuben as head of Treasury and hired as financial advisor that abominable Wall Streeter Larry Summers (who lost a $billion from Harvard's endowment!). Those three and their brilliant ideas crashed the economy
And we, the people (the little people, lots of women and children), reaped the whirlwind of that 1999 Act which ended Glass-Steagall and for which every repuke in the Senate voted AYE while every Dem -- save one -- voted NAY. Bill signed it into law anyway, paying no heed to the canary-in-the-mine Dems who said that this dastardly new law would lead to disaster 10 years hence. Sure enough it did, harming women and families throughout the land. Meanwhile Wall Street, Hillary's BFF, continues to be such a benefactor for women!
In the Senate, what did she DO? What legislation or amendments to legislation illustrate her initiative or activism on behalf of women and children. The aye votes for IWR, the Patriot Act and Bush's Bankruptcy bill sure were a big help to us all!
Then there was her abysmal management and nasty conduct during the 2008 primary campaign. She had the money, she had the name, she was entitled, she was "in it to win it" and so arrogant that she claimed it would be over by Super Tuesday. But when it wasn't and she was losing, she resorted to the gutter. She praised McCain and derided Obama as someone who only gave pretty speeches. And when the Party urged her to bow out gracefully, she said that she was going to stay in the race through the CA primary because "you never know... remember Bobby Kennedy..." Her insinuation (a veiled wish?) that Obama might be assassinated like RFK was beyond classless and tasteless. It was evil (google Keith Olbermann on that atrocity). And when she finally, gracelessly bowed out, she did so on condition that the Obama organization and DNC pay off her campaign debt. Some management skills, just like her Wall Street benefactors who f--- things up, then expect others to pay for the disaster created.
As SOS, she was also terrible. Honduras, Libya and Syria are a mess. But HRC, the consummate pro-MIC corporatist, never saw a war she didn't like. And last I checked, war is not good for women, children or men!
Now in 2016, HRC is in kitchen sink mode. The surrogates have been unleashed. They have insulted young women for going where the boys are and damned all women who dont support the anointed one. They are impugning the opponents integrity and record on Civil Rights and there is more and worse to come. This is 2008 redux with added shock and awe.
This is HRC's history. So, please tell me what she has DONE that is positive or constructive? What is this record she always harkens back to in her me, me, me, mine, mine, mine debate responses and that her supporters mimic? She's in it for herself, she plays sexist gender politics, she lies about her alleged record, she changes her mind with the political winds, she panders, she pads her pockets, and she is the worst sort of Democrat... a founder of the DLC and a triangulator to her core.
treestar
(82,383 posts)and helps Bernie not one whit.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)I believe that in the end, Hillary will prevail and be the nominee. I still think that there's a greater probability that the Republicans will end up with Trump than the Democrats end up with Sanders as the nominee.
Of course, I could be wrong. Time will tell. Meantime, the drama and the most ridiculous of the posts about Hillary are only worthy of laughter and an eye roll.
Don't let these folks get to you.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Califonz
(465 posts)and her supporters think it's a vicious attack!
Carolina
(6,960 posts)HST said: I never did give anybody hell. I just told the truth and they thought it was hell.
Well here's the truth about Hillary and yes, it is hellish:
She is part of Bill Clinton's legacy (the two for one, the 8 years of 'experience'): NAFTA, Telecommunications Bill of 1996, Welfare Reform (not), Three Strikes, overturning Glass-Steagall, etc. She and Bill kept Alan Greenspan at the Fed, placed the then Mr. Goldman Sucks himself Robert Reuben as head of Treasury and hired as financial advisor that abominable Wall Streeter Larry Summers (who lost a $billion from Harvard's endowment!). Those three and their brilliant ideas crashed the economy
And we, the people (the little people, lots of women and children), reaped the whirlwind of that 1999 Act which ended Glass-Steagall and for which every repuke in the Senate voted AYE while every Dem -- save one -- voted NAY. Bill signed it into law anyway, paying no heed to the canary-in-the-mine Dems who said that this dastardly new law would lead to disaster 10 years hence. Sure enough it did, harming women and families throughout the land. Meanwhile Wall Street, Hillary's BFF, continues to be such a benefactor for women!
In the Senate, what did she DO? What legislation or amendments to legislation illustrate her initiative or activism on behalf of women and children. The aye votes for IWR, the Patriot Act and Bush's Bankruptcy bill sure were a big help to us all!
Then there was her abysmal management and nasty conduct during the 2008 primary campaign. She had the money, she had the name, she was entitled, she was "in it to win it" and so arrogant that she claimed it would be over by Super Tuesday. But when it wasn't and she was losing, she resorted to the gutter. She praised McCain and derided Obama as someone who only gave pretty speeches. And when the Party urged her to bow out gracefully, she said that she was going to stay in the race through the CA primary because "you never know... remember Bobby Kennedy..." Her insinuation (a veiled wish?) that Obama might be assassinated like RFK was beyond classless and tasteless. It was evil (google Keith Olbermann on that atrocity). And when she finally, gracelessly bowed out, she did so on condition that the Obama organization and DNC pay off her campaign debt. Some management skills, just like her Wall Street benefactors who f--- things up, then expect others to pay for the disaster created.
As SOS, she was also terrible. Honduras, Libya and Syria are a mess. But HRC, the consummate pro-MIC corporatist, never saw a war she didn't like. And last I checked, war is not good for women, children or men!
Now in 2016, HRC is in kitchen sink mode. The surrogates have been unleashed. They have insulted young women for going where the boys are and damned all women who dont support the anointed one. They are impugning the opponents integrity and record on Civil Rights and there is more and worse to come. This is 2008 redux with added shock and awe.
This is HRC's history. So, please tell me what she has DONE that is positive or constructive? What is this record she always harkens back to in her me, me, me, mine, mine, mine debate responses and that her supporters mimic? She's in it for herself, she plays sexist gender politics, she lies about her alleged record, she changes her mind with the political winds, she panders, she pads her pockets, and she is the worst sort of Democrat... a founder of the DLC and a triangulator to her core.
Welcome to DU
kydo
(2,679 posts)Makes this forum look worse then the freeper place or that conservative cave/den/hole in the ground thing.
I will be glad when the primaries are done with. Hopefully we will be able to toss the dead weight and some how vote a dem to the White House.
The hate here is very disheartening.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)As soon as it's mathematically clear that BERNIE WILL NOT BE THE NOMINEE (ie: in the few weeks following Super Tuesday) we'll know that Hillary will be the nominee! :-D
The attacks will end (either voluntarily or by forcibly being removed by the "bouncers" and we can all hug and be friends again.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)Hillary's supporters are hardly blameless.
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)that this is a DEMOCRATIC website. I agree with you that these attacks are "off the rails of reality".
RobertEarl
(13,685 posts)Just complaining and moaning and groaning.
You should delete this.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Both have gone overboard with their hatred of Hillary.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)my message was hidden. I haven't had a hidden message in years.
This is supposedly a Democratic site. It is not democratic (with small "d" to censor posts at the rate that posts get censored here. What I wrote had no curse words or anything that was more offensive than what is posted here daily. I only questioned the gumption of Sanders' supporters to accuse Hillary's campaign of trying to damage his character when attempts to damage Hillary's character is all I see here day in and day out.