2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders says Clinton campaign is coming 'unraveled' by his progress
By CATHERINE LUCEY and MICHELLE RINDELS Associated Press
RENO, Nev.
Bernie Sanders is pronouncing himself startled by the ferocity of Hillary Clinton's attempts to take him down, saying she's coming "unraveled" by his progress in the Democratic presidential campaign.
The Vermont senator used unusually blunt words to express frustration with his opponent when he spoke to reporters Saturday before flying to Colorado for a Democratic dinner at which both were scheduled to appear.
Sanders has only fitfully gone back at Clinton when she's gone after him, but he suggested Saturday that his patience is wearing thin.
"This is obviously my first national campaign," Sanders said, "but I am really stunned by some of the attacks we are getting from Secretary Clinton. Clearly they have been unraveled by the results in Iowa, by our victory in New Hampshire and the progress we are making all over this country."
And on foreign policy, he said, "I do get a little bit tired of being lectured by the Clinton people." He raised again her Senate vote in favor of invading Iraq and said that on the most important foreign policy issue in modern times, "I voted the right way, she voted the wrong way."
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/article60246816.html
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)The combination of cocky and thin-skinned is not appealing.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)It may be smarter than you think.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)Look, I remember 2008. She's not unraveling. If there's one thing I think I've learned about her after 25 years it's that she doesn't unravel. Bernie I'm not so sure about.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)She unraveled--or her campaign did.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)Which she won handily. You guys are flunking Hillary 101.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)Her attacks got more unhinged as time went on. It was a downward spiral.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)is unraveling. Bernie hasn't made it to this point by posing. I'm really not seeing the upside.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)One of his surrogates should go after him.
Look, I'm surprised Bernie hasn't pointed out the hypocrisy of Hillary's full-on embrace of Obama, perhaps by gently pointing out that people say a lot of things when they're trying to win elections, witness what Hillary had to say about Obama the last time she was running for President. With me, otoh, what you see is what you get, etc. To me that would be a lot more effective than I'm winning/she's losing.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)to remind people that she didn't always think Obama was so effin' awesome.
Iwillnevergiveup
(9,298 posts)and he's Hillary's asshole.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)Too bad ....
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)pugs used to be afraid of US. We used to have bearings and we used them all the time. What you heard is democratic speech. The other way is bullshit. He's speaking like a dem. They will of course spin it that he's attacking her mental health. This is great. Its how dems used to talk back before money, 'experts', focus groups and other bullshit neutered everyone.
appalachiablue
(41,145 posts)dinkytron
(568 posts)bvf
(6,604 posts)All he need do is to let her keep accumulating the predictable flip-flops and "me-too"s, and to bring them up at appropriate times.
Again: Nothing negative about that. Nothing.
dinkytron
(568 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)You are wrong about her not unraveling. Yes it was after Ohio, that is besides the point.
merrily
(45,251 posts)PonyUp
(1,680 posts)Matariki
(18,775 posts)PonyUp
(1,680 posts)I'm not any good copy/pasting on iPad.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Here's the link for anyone else interested - http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511050439
Matariki
(18,775 posts)Betty Karlson
(7,231 posts)You are right, Clinton's unraving is on full repeat now. She can't handle legitimate criticism, because too much unfair criticism has been flung at her by the right wing crazies.
Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)But none the less, Hillary is in trouble while Bernie was able to raise $7.2 million in a day and won New Hampshire by 22%.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2016/02/10/after-new-hampshire-loss-hillary-clinton-supporters-fret-over-campaign-that-seems-out-step-with-voter-concerns/awUrmJu6xIUWG95ESsUKrK/story.html
^snip^
After N.H., supporters fear Clinton is out of touch
CONCORD, N.H. Hillary Clintons stinging 22-point loss in the New Hampshire Democratic primary prompted fretting Wednesday among the party elite, and raised the stakes for the caucus in Nevada.
Her backers worried that she is failing to meet the challenge of voters who want a total reboot of Washington politics.
We got caught in a tsunami, said Lou DAllesandro, a New Hampshire state senator and a longtime Clinton ally. The Clinton campaign never really grasped in totality the anger and the sentiment of the voters.
Though Clinton expected to lose the first-in-the-
nation primary, the gaping margin was far beyond what most predicted and further legitimized Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders insurgent candidacy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/11/us/politics/bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0
^snip^
After New Hampshire, Hillary Clinton Struggles to Find Her Footing
HOOKSETT, N.H. After her unexpected victory in the New Hampshire primary in 2008, Hillary Clinton said she found my own voice. She left New Hampshire on Tuesday night, after a double-digit defeat, still searching for it.
Bernie Sanderss nearly 22-point victory came after Mrs. Clintons advisers had worked hard to lower expectations, but privately, many people close to Mrs. Clinton, including her husband, believed the state would once again serve as a lifeline.
They had hoped that women and working-class voters, who had resuscitated Mrs. Clintons 2008 campaign and rescued Bill Clintons in 1992, would at least narrow the gap with Mr. Sanders. Instead, Mr. Sanders won among nearly every demographic, including women, young voters and those who make less than $50,000 a year. In the end, the only demographic Mrs. Clinton held onto from 2008 was voters over the age of 65.
The rout rocked the Clinton campaign. As the results rolled in, Mrs. Clintons advisers took a somber assessment of the exit polls, recognizing early missteps that had allowed an insurgent challenger to gain the momentum, and their failure to capture the imaginations of young voters in particular, young women.
Geronimoe
(1,539 posts)after Obama and John Edwards beat her. And then she was lying about taking sniper fire.
Bohemianwriter
(978 posts)Right?
If you think that pointing out sleazy tactics is thin skinned, just listen to Hillary during the debates, making it all about how everybody (The republican attack machine) is so mean to her...
I think it's only fair to point out the derailment from the Hillary campaign when she cannot focus on the issue anymore, but goes after Bernie on a personal level, using her surrogates to attack Bernie's strong sides. This is a typical Karl Rove move.
I guess some Hillary supporters are fine with Karl Rove methods as long as Hillary is using them while expecting her opponent to play clean. If it was me, I'd be livid and may have done a mistake, leaving my principles and gone full dirty myself in Bernie's shoes. Luckily, he's a better man than I with tons of more patience I lack.
Comparing this to wrestling, it's like the heel is using dirty tricks behind the ref. and cry foul when the face hits back.
American politics: A mix pro-wrestling and a freakshow. But very entertaining.
"We came, we bombed, they drowned".....
artislife
(9,497 posts)CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)POOR JUDGEMENT WITH PAST ... POOR JUDGEMENT!!!! It Sticks!
morningfog
(18,115 posts)The negative campaigning hurts Hillary more than him. He's asking her to keep it up.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)One smart dude..
He's been around the track a few times, 'ole Bernie has.
Heh heh heh
6chars
(3,967 posts)i wouldn't take his scrapping skills for granted
pangaia
(24,324 posts)No longer!!
geologic
(205 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)by any other name . . .
...............
GOP superpac running pro-Sanders anti-Clinton ads: http://www.americancrossroads.org/2016/01/chelsea-uses-clintonian-playbook-of-deception/
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)That Annie Oakley?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Yesterday, Clinton hit Obama for calling Pennsylvanians "bitter," ground on which he fairly ably engaged.
Today, she's onto the other half of his San Francisco remarks, in which he linked economic frustration to clinging to religion and guns (the part he sought to walk back this morning in Muncie, Ind.).
"Sen. Obama's remarks are elitist, and they are out of touch," Clinton said. "The people of faith I know don't 'cling to' religion because they're bitter. ... I also disagree with Sen. Obama's assertion that people in this country 'cling to guns' and have certain attitudes about immigration or trade simply out of frustration. People of all walks of life hunt and they enjoy doing so because it's an important part of their life, not because they are bitter."
http://www.politico.com/blogs/ben-smith/2008/04/hillary-hits-obama-on-faith-guns-007747
But Clinton hasnt always been so forceful in her fight for gun control. As the Post highlights, Clinton has dramatically shifted her tone on gun control since the 2008 campaign. While Clinton touted her husbands record record on gun control (former President Bill Clinton signed into the law an assault weapons ban that has since lapsed) she also heralded personal memories of learning to shoot with her father and defend gun ownership, saying, there is not a contradiction between protecting Second Amendment rights and the effort to reduce crime.
You know, my dad took me out behind the cottage that my grandfather built on a little lake called Lake Winola outside of Scranton and taught me how to shoot when I was a little girl, Clinton said while campaigning ahead of the Indiana primary, where white working class Democrats propelled her to a narrow victory over then-Sen. Barack Obama. You know, some people now continue to teach their children and their grandchildren. Its part of culture. Its part of a way of life. People enjoy hunting and shooting because its an important part of who they are. Not because they are bitter, she continued, in a dig at Obamas remark at a fundraiser that disenfranchised Americans often cling to cultural symbols like guns and religion.
http://www.salon.com/2015/07/10/hillary_clinton_goes_bold_on_gun_safety_but_she_sounded_a_different_note_in_2008/
WAUSAU, WIS. -- At a campaign stop this afternoon, Hillary Clinton's focus was on the economy and health care but some in the crowd had other things on their minds. Clinton was asked to discuss gun control which prompted Clinton to talk about her days holding a rifle in the cold, shallow waters in backwoods Arkansas.
"I've hunted. My father taught me how to hunt. I went duck hunting in Arkansas. I remember standing in that cold water, so cold, at first light. I was with a bunch of my friends, all men. The sun's up, the ducks are flying and they are playing a trick on me. They said, 'we're not going to shoot, you shoot.' They wanted to embarrass me. The pressure was on. So I shot, and I shot a banded duck and they were surprised as I was," Clinton said drawing laughter from the crowd.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/clintons-hunting-history/
Q: Do you support the DC handgun ban?
A: I want to give local communities the authority over determining how to keep their citizens safe. This case youre referring to is before the Supreme Court.
Q: But what do you support?
A: I support sensible regulation that is consistent with the constitutional right to own and bear arms.
Q: Is the DC ban consistent with that right?
A: I think a total ban, with no exceptions under any circumstances, might be found by the court not to be. But DC or anybody else [should be able to] come up with sensible regulations to protect their people.
Q: But do you still favor licensing and registration of handguns?
A: What I favor is what works in NY. We have one set of rules in NYC and a totally different set of rules in the rest of the state. What might work in NYC is certainly not going to work in Montana. So, for the federal government to be having any kind of blanket rules that theyre going to try to impose, I think doesnt make sense.
Source: 2008 Philadelphia primary debate, on eve of PA primary , Apr 16, 2008
http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Gun_Control.htm
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Better get a new calendar.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)That's the problem!
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Probably from the dampness down south.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Howdy, y'all!
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)That's a problem?
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)She's tough.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Such a strange thing to say about her close friend and trusted adviser.
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)http://reverbpress.com/politics/hillary-clinton-and-henry-kissinger-its-complicated/
bvar22
(39,909 posts)Oh wait.
Thats not President Obama; its Rappaport.
Rappaport appears to be comfortable and competent at handling guns.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)He is confident and sees all the ugliness in politics.
In fact. I think he knows just what he is doing in saying what he did.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)Orchestrating these ridiculous attacks.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)The headline is misleading.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)war criminal is bound to appeal to a DEMOCRATIC BASE. Something about that strikes me as UNHINGED.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)I agree. The mistake of someone who's been around too long, not a rookie.
hopeforchange2008
(610 posts)The combination of cocky and thin-skinned is not appealing.
H2O Man
(73,559 posts)Perfect move by Bernie, with perfect timing.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)Chasstev365
(5,191 posts)1. Hillary: This is MINE! I'm ENTITLED to the Presidency.
2. Stop using Smear Campaigns against me Bernie! (But its OK for my surrogates to imply you're a communist, never participated in the Civil Rights Movement, and that your supporters aren't with me because they hate women)
merrily
(45,251 posts)by media, the DNC and the Hillary campaign to make sure he gets nowhere. That's when I realize he and his campaign most likely know what they are doing.
Besides that, what he said is absolutely true.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)I thought you supporter her? I know she's pulling the same rookie mistakes as '08 but Kissinger told her this is what she should do. And he's never wrong. Or at least that's what he told her.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)someone who pretends nothing bothers him/her, blows things off, then has their underlings do the dirty attack work and acts all innocent later on.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)He said "they have become unraveled"
the campaign
not Hillary.
Please change your headline.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)OK. How's that?
I missed that in the body..
Thanks
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Like she is some emotionally unstable woman.
He is better than that. Or maybe not.
grasswire
(50,130 posts)He didn't say she is unraveling.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)No matter how bad you wish it were.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)and calling her unstable is not sexist if it's fitting. And I seriously think it is. HRC is becoming unstable because she is watching her assured coronation slip away despite the machinations of the DNC and DWS, all the big name/group endorsements, and the big money from Wall Street BFFs.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)Carolina
(6,960 posts)My point is the such adjectives as unfitting, unraveling, etc. are NOT sexist when they are appropriate. And they are appropriate for HRC and her campaign.
You can unknot your knickers now
pangaia
(24,324 posts)I had used the title in the article.
I missed the actual quote farther down in the body.
My error.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)You simply do not get the benefit of the doubt. Real what you sow.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)morningfog
(18,115 posts)boston bean
(36,221 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)Although some might say unglued.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)You're better than that.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Jesus christ already. I deleted about 3 responses that i knew would be hidden and rigthfully so.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)This was almost as hilarious.
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)Right? At least that is the impression I get from some of her supporters.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)It does a disservice to women everywhere and even Hillary when they do this because it makes it easier to dismiss actual sexism when it occurs.
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)I don't see how it advances women to cry sexism when it isn't there. Or when she said "I can't be part of the establishment because I am a woman." Whatevs.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)I forget what about.
Somebody on 'our team' referred to herself as an old broad. :> )
I said well, in college we called out girlfriends 'chicks.' They called us, "my old man." Something like that. l was cool.
But somebody from the other side of the galaxy called me on it, said it was sexist. So,, I apologized..
Maybe... something chicken, chick,,, I don't know.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)An old hippie called me that once and it stuck, it's not offensive at all.
It's getting so you have to watch everything you type here, remember the outrage over the 'BOOBS2016' thread? We jumped that shark a long time ago.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)How did I ever miss that?
Boston bean didn't seem to happy about it.
hearts for you for this..
Now I can go to bed happy..
I like boobs. I will think of them all night..
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Goodnight!
TTUBatfan2008
(3,623 posts)There is a huge difference. THEY means the campaign, which features a male campaign manager and a male former POTUS who heps influence the campaign strategy.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)What you want is special treatment, not equality.
Sounds like the opposite of Feminism to me.
senz
(11,945 posts)He said her extreme attacks on him suggested an unraveling campaign. The word "unravel" means "to disengage or separate the threads of." Nothing sexist in that. Nothing.
You know what came to mind? The Clinton campaign: "Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive."
FloridaBlues
(4,008 posts)No proof she's "unraveling" just because Bernie says so.
don't worry about Bernie he gives as good as he gets
840high
(17,196 posts)Bernie!!!
geologic
(205 posts)Gore1FL
(21,132 posts)It might be offensive to rope or textiles, but they haven't complained.
merrily
(45,251 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)Because that stretch was quite impressive, without superpowers.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)amborin
(16,631 posts)absolutely manic in NH. Worse than the "Dean scream." Not someone you want with their finger on the button, as some wise
posters here have already noted.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)My mistake.
Thanks..
livetohike
(22,145 posts)Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)senz
(11,945 posts)In discussing her campaign's hideous attacks on him, he would have been within his rights to draw conclusions about the kind of person who does that.
complain jane
(4,302 posts)She definitely took stock of what's working and what's not and shifted gears in some places.
geologic
(205 posts)pangaia
(24,324 posts)anti-lock brakes and traction control. And a rear view camera, heated mirrors, lane change warnings.
islandmkl
(5,275 posts)and not a turn in sight
erlewyne
(1,115 posts)A month ago I got 1 a week.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Divernan
(15,480 posts)Since she's been reduced to asking people to donate a dollar, I expect next up will be: "Send me a goddamned penny, or else! If you don't send me your goddammned penny by return mail in the enclosed envelope, Bill will have to stand on a street corner outside the Foggy Bottom metro station shaking a goddammned collection can!"
I think that would be a smart move on her part, because even a one red cent contribution will REALLY enable her to lower her average donation number.
I cannot understand how anyone who can only afford a modest donation would send one red cent to the multi-multi millionaire Clintons . . . . and, I would add, to the deadbeat Clintons, who stiffed campaign workers and vendors for OVER TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS at the end of her 2008 campaign.
More than four years after ending her 2008 bid for the presidency, Hillary Rodham Clinton is out of the red and debt free.
Clinton finally paid off the last of her campaign debts, which at one time were well over $20 million, according to campaign finance reports filed Tuesday. Now, the Hillary Clinton for President campaign has about $205,000 in the bank as she gets ready to leave the Obama administration as secretary of State amid calls from prominent Democrats that she run again in 2016.
So how did Clinton pay off her campaign debts?
Since she has been part of Obama's Cabinet, Clinton hasn't been able to engage in political activities such as fundraising. Former President Bill Clinton, however, has done what he could to help his wife, sending out fundraising letters on her behalf, raffling off trips and dinners, and signing campaign memorabilia in exchange for donations.
President Obama also helped in his own way.The Clinton campaign report shows she rented out her list of donors to Obama's presidential campaign, which brought in about $63,000 in October.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/onpolitics/2013/01/23/hillary-clinton-campaign-debt-free/1857991/#
Hope this time around everyone is getting their money up front, because she only paid off the 2008 debts when she needed to have a clean slate to run again.
Akamai
(1,779 posts)Bernie does not lean forward as to war!
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Democrats don't respect that.
jalan48
(13,870 posts)Six months ago she was a virtual lock, and now? It's slipping away just like in 2008. The only difference this time is that Bernie won't appoint Hillary to any positions in his cabinet. She'll just have to go back out on the corporate speaking trail. Oh well, at least she will make millions for herself.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)Oh well, now those 2 Clinton lovebirds will have time for a romantic second honeymoon!
jalan48
(13,870 posts)leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Yea, right Bernie. And you need some foreign policy chops. Try talking to some generals or something.
cascadiance
(19,537 posts)Americans of all political stripes are starting to like how his foreign policy judgment there protects our jobs more, as well as our sovereignty.
pangaia
(24,324 posts)But you can contact his campaign here. info@berniesanders.com I am sure they would be glad to hear what you have to say.
Vogon_Glory
(9,118 posts)Senator Sanders' claims about his performance goes before a broader base of critics than the mostly-white precincts of Iowa and New Hampshire on Super Tuesday. We'll see if Bernie's flugelhorn plays as well as the Big Dog's saxophone then.
islandmkl
(5,275 posts)that were prevented from voting?
do they score elections differently than it appears, or do the most votes decide?
Vogon_Glory
(9,118 posts)Super Tuesday is coming, and so is the vote-tallying on the following day. I fail to see why I should believe the hype Bernie-philes are pushing until after then.
This ain't my first rodeo. The primary season is still far from over and the Party hasn't decided who is going to be our nominee.
nikto
(3,284 posts)The word
Neocon
is not allowed to be used
in this election cycle.
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)Avalux
(35,015 posts)That was a stupid and desperate move to try and swift boat Bernie.
George II
(67,782 posts)Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)13 days out and trailing 30 points means you will lose.
George II
(67,782 posts)Horus T Light
(12 posts)We need everybody in the fight against the Frankenstein monster of team red. After super Tuesday it won't matter much anyway. I'm a proud Hillary supporter but would vote for Sanders if he makes it. I hope I can say the same for you when Hillary goes to the podium at the convention.
HereSince1628
(36,063 posts)Now it can't be called a restart this time because that would be number 4 this primary cycle.
What you do is boldly take the popular part of your opponents message and make love to it.
Anyone who's ever been a cuckold understands that such love making requires someone pushing someoneelse out of their bed
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Gregorian
(23,867 posts)It'll be another Wizard of Oz moment on national tv. I'm liking these.