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restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 05:01 PM Feb 2016

it's NOT free stuff DAMMIT! its retrieval of what the 1% has stolen from us!!!!!!!

with the help of wall street and generations of corrupt and greedy politicians.

its not socialism, its not communisn, its not even "free" stuff at others' expense.

it's a damn recovery process.

119 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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it's NOT free stuff DAMMIT! its retrieval of what the 1% has stolen from us!!!!!!! (Original Post) restorefreedom Feb 2016 OP
Amen.... daleanime Feb 2016 #1
A lot of the National Debt was just a 1% Shell Game to redirect tax cuts to future generations! TheBlackAdder Feb 2016 #12
BINGO!!!! Ferd Berfel Feb 2016 #2
great graphic! nt restorefreedom Feb 2016 #4
Should be the DU zentrum Feb 2016 #74
.^that 840high Feb 2016 #82
The Subsidies Supported By The Establishment, DNC And RNC Are Legion cantbeserious Feb 2016 #115
Is it reparations jeepers Feb 2016 #3
You could look at it that way loyalsister Feb 2016 #22
Wow!!! So college students who support Bernie and seem to know everything else on this board politicaljunkie41910 Feb 2016 #63
How many people were told this is a great opportunity to pay for college loyalsister Feb 2016 #67
Ah yes, the buyer beware argument that the crooks like to use. "It's not our fault if people are rhett o rick Feb 2016 #85
Excellent question! nt Rebkeh Feb 2016 #54
Free Iraq! RobertEarl Feb 2016 #5
Plagiarist rocktivity Feb 2016 #6
that is an awesome photo!!! go Bernie! restorefreedom Feb 2016 #9
This would be more effective without the profanity. earthshine Feb 2016 #11
I Agree, Bernie would never say that. But like the picture and Idea. Milliesmom Feb 2016 #42
The profanity works 21st Century Poet Feb 2016 #61
Whatever ... earthshine Feb 2016 #76
I think so, too... MrMickeysMom Feb 2016 #90
I would pay to hear Sanders use those exact words. nt white_wolf Feb 2016 #17
Kicking for later Pharaoh Feb 2016 #44
So what has he been doing for the past 25 years dlwickham Feb 2016 #55
one could say that hillary has spent the past 25 years restorefreedom Feb 2016 #57
Why not dlwickham Feb 2016 #62
several of our recent military forays have been criminal, they just weren't charged. restorefreedom Feb 2016 #64
He accepted money from the DSCC dlwickham Feb 2016 #84
most, if not all, of that money restorefreedom Feb 2016 #86
But he's accepted money from them before dlwickham Feb 2016 #87
dws just overturned obamas limits on lobbyist money restorefreedom Feb 2016 #88
What does that have to do with Sanders taking money from the DSCC dlwickham Feb 2016 #91
most of that money was funneled back into dscc restorefreedom Feb 2016 #92
So he didn't accept any DSCC money dlwickham Feb 2016 #94
why don't you add a link restorefreedom Feb 2016 #96
I think I saw he accepted campaign donations about $200,000 dlwickham Feb 2016 #99
campaign donations, maybe, of 200,000 restorefreedom Feb 2016 #100
You're more patient than I am Armstead Feb 2016 #107
:) restorefreedom Feb 2016 #109
Her pockets and all her rich buddies. 840high Feb 2016 #83
Great picture and right on the button 21st Century Poet Feb 2016 #60
Yes, we are the tax payers. They are in the Caymans. mmonk Feb 2016 #7
It's paid tuition, it's paid better value healthcare, free my ass... tokenlib Feb 2016 #8
Yes hibbing Feb 2016 #26
People who go to school have to work for their education. JDPriestly Feb 2016 #28
They've been stealing from the people actually producing the wealth in this country for 4 decades. Salviati Feb 2016 #10
Good Post Mr. Salviati !! FairWinds Feb 2016 #23
The transaction tax isn't just going to hit the 1% Ms. Yertle Feb 2016 #13
Most peoples 401k's stagnate just on the fees brokers charge. Fuddnik Feb 2016 #15
I think you are being told a tale. Blus4u Feb 2016 #18
Found this article, FWIW Ms. Yertle Feb 2016 #70
Dear Ms. Yertle FairWinds Feb 2016 #20
K & R AzDar Feb 2016 #14
When I went to college supported by LBJ's programs the jwirr Feb 2016 #16
K & R! TIME TO PANIC Feb 2016 #19
So let's get rid of interstates and make them toll roads. Not everyone uses them. white_wolf Feb 2016 #21
K & R for visibility of this w0nderer Feb 2016 #24
Socialism for the rich, brutal capitalism for the rest of us AZ Progressive Feb 2016 #25
that's exactly what it is. liberal_at_heart Feb 2016 #110
Great Post! Skwmom Feb 2016 #27
No, it is not free stuff and I wish Democrats would stop saying that. randys1 Feb 2016 #29
"Free Stuff" is a republican slogan and any who use it here are NOT progressives. arcane1 Feb 2016 #30
Who died and made you king? politicaljunkie41910 Feb 2016 #73
I have my opinions, you can have yours n/t arcane1 Feb 2016 #75
And you're entitled to your opinions. Where I have a problem is when your opinions politicaljunkie41910 Feb 2016 #78
"Free stuff" is a right wing talking point n/t arcane1 Feb 2016 #79
"Free stuff" is a core right wing talking point Armstead Feb 2016 #108
Progressives don't use right wing Republican arguments against Democrats AgingAmerican Feb 2016 #106
I disagree. It IS free stuff. After all, Republicans tell us that a things value is not its... Shandris Feb 2016 #31
What about free cars? redstateblues Feb 2016 #101
I honestly don't feel victimized Chico Man Feb 2016 #32
Or just us receiving the due benefit of our tax dollars. Jester Messiah Feb 2016 #33
recovery process?? handmade34 Feb 2016 #34
you think bernie plans to leave them out???? nt restorefreedom Feb 2016 #35
I didn't say that handmade34 Feb 2016 #41
i agree..many have had a raw deal restorefreedom Feb 2016 #56
I gave you a heart for this one! We pay taxes, and it's time we got something back secondwind Feb 2016 #36
awwwwww, thanks! nt restorefreedom Feb 2016 #38
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Feb 2016 #37
thanks, uncle joe! nt restorefreedom Feb 2016 #39
Pogo says Mike__M Feb 2016 #40
To the 1%, anything bigger than a crumb is undeserved free stuff for us. senz Feb 2016 #43
Best definition of the problem yet. eom Cleita Feb 2016 #45
I want back from my success sharing poprocks71 Feb 2016 #46
Damn. Damn. We all want justice that is ALL! All kinds of justice. Economic, racial, all of it. nt thereismore Feb 2016 #47
Bernie needs to frame zentrum Feb 2016 #48
:) will look into that, but i would be shocked restorefreedom Feb 2016 #58
Perfect SHRED Feb 2016 #49
it's all stuff that used to be affordable. mopinko Feb 2016 #50
Only idiot's call it " free stuff " We've paid for it x10 . orpupilofnature57 Feb 2016 #51
Yes I am rally sick of the free stuff meeme too. airplaneman Feb 2016 #52
It's time to invest our taxes in ourselves and our nation. Cassiopeia Feb 2016 #53
yes! well put. nt restorefreedom Feb 2016 #59
Watch the framing people..."free stuff" is Republican code words for don't help anyone EndElectoral Feb 2016 #65
even dems and reporters have jumped on board restorefreedom Feb 2016 #66
Get used to it. earthside Feb 2016 #103
Kicked and recommended to the Max! Enthusiast Feb 2016 #68
Poor, wretched, and stupid peoples, nations determined on your own misfortune and blind to your own jtuck004 Feb 2016 #69
the more things change......and something about restorefreedom Feb 2016 #71
Yup. n/t jtuck004 Feb 2016 #77
K&R Paka Feb 2016 #72
It's a cost of doing business! HenryWallace Feb 2016 #80
Recced to the moon! SusanCalvin Feb 2016 #81
Payback of the bailout with interest n/t Jon Ace Feb 2016 #89
The Pentagon has a slush fund of $58.8 billion. neverforget Feb 2016 #93
of course not. the little people are just irritating noisemakers restorefreedom Feb 2016 #95
And it ain't just the 1%. raouldukelives Feb 2016 #97
that is true restorefreedom Feb 2016 #98
Gimme Gimme Gimme redstateblues Feb 2016 #102
give back what they took restorefreedom Feb 2016 #104
The planet's wealth belongs to all of us. JFKDem62 Feb 2016 #105
They don't want us to redistribute what they stole from us. eom Festivito Feb 2016 #111
nope. and they want more. nt restorefreedom Feb 2016 #112
Know Thy Enemy - Oligarchs, Corporations, Banks And Their Pundits, Media Minions And MIC Henchmen cantbeserious Feb 2016 #113
absolutely!!! nt restorefreedom Feb 2016 #114
Now we're getting somewhere! You are so right!! DiehardLiberal Feb 2016 #116
:) nt restorefreedom Feb 2016 #117
Especially things like fixing bridges and WATER SYSTEMS.... Spitfire of ATJ Feb 2016 #118
yes, and its a matter of time restorefreedom Feb 2016 #119

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
22. You could look at it that way
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 05:54 PM
Feb 2016

Students loans have turned out to be theft. Students didn't realize that they were signing over the time they have to spend in a second job to make their payments. Home owners were obviously robbed. 401Ks.....

politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
63. Wow!!! So college students who support Bernie and seem to know everything else on this board
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:38 PM
Feb 2016

don't know how student loans work? That's rich.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
67. How many people were told this is a great opportunity to pay for college
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:45 PM
Feb 2016

but don't forget, there will be an economic collapse that will make it impossible to pay living expenses and loan payments without an extra job or two?
I'm pretty sure they didn't include that unfortunate crash of the American dream in the exit video I saw.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
85. Ah yes, the buyer beware argument that the crooks like to use. "It's not our fault if people are
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:29 PM
Feb 2016

stupid enough to be fooled by us." I bet when the widow next door get ripped off for a new roof, you are out there laughing your head off. What is rich is that some here love and worship the rich and think the poor should be smarter. Hello conservatism.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
5. Free Iraq!
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 05:08 PM
Feb 2016

All the RWNJ went all out for what they called a Free Iraq! and now the Middle East is as messed up as can be.

Trillions of dollars spent, maybe a million dead, and gas prices doubled all because they wanted a Free Iraq which is now an utter failure.

And Hillary voted for a Free Iraq!

 

earthshine

(1,642 posts)
11. This would be more effective without the profanity.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 05:16 PM
Feb 2016

I am a Bernie supporter and volunteer.

We have been told from above -- be nice, be courteous, always.

21st Century Poet

(254 posts)
61. The profanity works
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:37 PM
Feb 2016

I disagree. The profanity makes it all the more effective because it makes people sit up and take notice. And it's memorable.

Bernie Sanders would never say that (not publicly, anyway), of course, but that is hardly the point. Any cartoonist knows the power of humour and slight exaggeration.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
90. I think so, too...
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:44 PM
Feb 2016

I'm also a volunteer.

Lord knows, I'd say those words a lot here (and have!), but I know he wouldn't. I'm also nice and courteous to everyone I phone bank. Why? Because I'm representing him.

dlwickham

(3,316 posts)
55. So what has he been doing for the past 25 years
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:27 PM
Feb 2016

So what has he been doing for the past 25 years since he's been in Congress other than voting to get the NRA a free pass?

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
57. one could say that hillary has spent the past 25 years
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:29 PM
Feb 2016

lining her pockets with corporate money and supporting criminal military acts, but lets not go there.....

dlwickham

(3,316 posts)
62. Why not
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:37 PM
Feb 2016

Sanders has certainly benefited from corporate money since he has accepted money from the DSCC

As for any criminal military acts, I can't remember her being charged with anything along those lines.

What should be considered criminal however is Sanders caring the NRA's water and opposing the Brady Bill

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
64. several of our recent military forays have been criminal, they just weren't charged.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:40 PM
Feb 2016

sanders does not take corporate superpac money

and now that the dnc has lifted the limits on lobbyist contributions, i am suuuuuuure hillary will come out strong against it and refuse any additional lobbyist funds......

for your info, i invite you to check this thread,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511216008

dlwickham

(3,316 posts)
84. He accepted money from the DSCC
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:27 PM
Feb 2016

And the DSCC accepted money from corporations and people working for them

Hell, he's attended a recent DSCC fundraiser where the minimum donation was $37,000 a person.

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/07/11/sanders-courts-marthas-vineyard-donors/


dlwickham

(3,316 posts)
87. But he's accepted money from them before
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:39 PM
Feb 2016

Was there someway that he made sure that none of the money he accepted in the past was from corporations or people who work for them?

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
88. dws just overturned obamas limits on lobbyist money
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:42 PM
Feb 2016

to help clinton's tanking campaign.

but yes, this nonissue is infinitely more important.....

dlwickham

(3,316 posts)
91. What does that have to do with Sanders taking money from the DSCC
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:46 PM
Feb 2016

he has accepted money from the DSCC and had helped them raise money from the same corporations and individuals that he's bitching about

Seems a bit hypocritical to me but I guess that's just me

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
92. most of that money was funneled back into dscc
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:50 PM
Feb 2016

unlike Hillarys speaking fees, her huge donations, her superpacs, and the unlimited money she is about to receive thanks to her dutiful servant, dws.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
96. why don't you add a link
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:03 AM
Feb 2016

with the total HE actually received and how much hillary gets from superpacs, "speaking fees," and big donors, and then we can revisit this will hard facts

my guess is it will be lunch money compared to the gdp.

but i am happy to look at the facts...

dlwickham

(3,316 posts)
99. I think I saw he accepted campaign donations about $200,000
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:27 AM
Feb 2016

I think I saw he accepted campaign donations about $200,000 from the DSCC.

But using your logic excepting that amount isn't bad.

How much would someone have to accept to make them "bad"?

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
100. campaign donations, maybe, of 200,000
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 10:44 AM
Feb 2016

over what time period?

not trying to be snarky, but having hard data on both candidates would allow us to compare contribution totals

and fwiw, i don't think candidates running on a dem ticket accepting help from the dem party is necessarily a bad thing. the issue for me is how much over what time period, and most importantly, in a contest among several individuals, are they being treated equally, or is favoritism being shown?

if hillary and bernie both got $50,000 (for example) in 2016, i would not have an issue with that. of there is inequality shown, that is a different matter

edit....here is some hard info

During the 2006 campaign, the DSCC gave $37,300 to the Sanders campaign and spent an additional $60,000 supporting him in campaign advertising. It also gave $110,000 to the Vermont Democratic Party to help Sanders, making eight separate committee transfers (the last coming on Oct. 4, 2006).

That adds up to $207,300 — a little more than the $200,000 claimed by Clinton.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511221391

tokenlib

(4,186 posts)
8. It's paid tuition, it's paid better value healthcare, free my ass...
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 05:09 PM
Feb 2016

..and it's an investment in a better America paid for by tax revenue. "Free stuff" is simply a conservative dog whistle.. that some people are lazy freeloaders and not deserving, so that we refuse to help one another. And in the end, by not choosing to help one another, it costs us more money in the long run. Stupid assholes....

hibbing

(10,109 posts)
26. Yes
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 06:02 PM
Feb 2016

It drives me insane, free education, free healthcare on and on. No, these are not free, they are paid for by taxes. Does anyone refer to the fire department being free fire protection? Free highways? It is sure a way to get from yes we can to no we can't by using "free".


Peace

JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
28. People who go to school have to work for their education.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 06:03 PM
Feb 2016

There is nothing free about education. "Free" tuition just makes the education possible. But students work hard for their education. Personally, I think that if you work hard at school and increase your productivity and ability to give back to society because of your education, you have earned your education.

If, as Hillary claims she wants, students are supposed to work to pay for their education, then lets impose a draft on everyone, rich and poor, and make everyone volunteer for a very minimal pay to make the country better. Personally I don't favor this proposal, but it does not make sense to only require poor and middle class kids whose parents can't afford to pay for tuition to work for their tuition at state schools. Kids who are poor and middle class may need to work for living expenses while in school. It's the wealthier kids who don't get the work experience they need to develop a strong work ethic in many cases, not the poorer ones who probably work more in the first place.

Not sure I am explaining my viewpoint well. Please let me know if you don't understand what I am saying. Thanks.

Salviati

(6,008 posts)
10. They've been stealing from the people actually producing the wealth in this country for 4 decades.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 05:15 PM
Feb 2016
?w=600

It's time that this theft is stopped!
 

FairWinds

(1,717 posts)
23. Good Post Mr. Salviati !!
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 05:57 PM
Feb 2016

Another way of looking at it is that

the area between the two lines represents what has been stolen from us.

Can anyone do that rough figuring?

Ms. Yertle

(466 posts)
13. The transaction tax isn't just going to hit the 1%
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 05:40 PM
Feb 2016

I asked my dh about this, and he said that right now you can expect your 401k to double every 5 years. The transaction tax would increase this interval to 10 years. It will be a real hit to middle class retirees.

Don't know if it's true. Would love to hear if someone knows something different.

Blus4u

(608 posts)
18. I think you are being told a tale.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 05:53 PM
Feb 2016

I don't know what a 'dh' is, but I believe the transaction tax proposed is a very small pct. of very large monetary movements.

Also I think doubling in 5 years is a stretch, unless you are putting in 16% of your income.

Peace

Ms. Yertle

(466 posts)
70. Found this article, FWIW
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:52 PM
Feb 2016
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/perfi/columnist/krantz/2011-01-25-doubling-a-larger-401k_N.htm

A few weeks ago, another Ask Matt reader asked whether it was possible to double the value of a 401(k) retirement in five years. And the answer is a resounding yes, if you follow the guidance in this previous column.


Sounds like it's possible, with some luck and a lot of diligence.

("dh" stands for "dear husband," and he is investing 16% of his income.)
 

FairWinds

(1,717 posts)
20. Dear Ms. Yertle
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 05:54 PM
Feb 2016

I can assure you that your DH is totally wrong.

If your account makes 100 trades per year, you'll only have a few dollars in fees.

The transaction tax is aimed at the high speed traders . . who are ACTUALLY THE ONES RIPPING YOU OFF!!

And if I were you, I would check your account. If your DH is making claims like that, he/she may not be ethical.

[And BTW, feel free to put him directly in touch with me. He should not be making those sorts of claims, and I will tell him so.]

Veterans For Peace

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
16. When I went to college supported by LBJ's programs the
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 05:51 PM
Feb 2016

nation understood that education benefited everyone. The student, the college, the company and the country. Free stuff? No it is a program that benefits all of us.

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
21. So let's get rid of interstates and make them toll roads. Not everyone uses them.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 05:54 PM
Feb 2016

I haven't had to call the police because I live in the middle of goddamn nowhere so let's get rid of them and the fire department and the post office. They call it free stuff, but I have another word for it: civilization.

w0nderer

(1,937 posts)
24. K & R for visibility of this
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 06:00 PM
Feb 2016

same reason why I hate being told to do 'incrementals'


for 30+ years incrementals have moved against working class/working poor!
for 30+ years incrementals have moved right right right (or as dems party called it center center center (we'll loose the centrists))


THERE is little more room now!
if i give more 'incrementals my vote will be teaparty despite voting dem left

i have one time now....to ask for a left candidate....please...bring the spectrum back to the left

randys1

(16,286 posts)
29. No, it is not free stuff and I wish Democrats would stop saying that.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 06:04 PM
Feb 2016

We all work pretty darn hard, at least I know I do or have in my life and almost everybody I know likewise.

The resources and money this nation has belongs to all of us, not a handful of rich people.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
30. "Free Stuff" is a republican slogan and any who use it here are NOT progressives.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 06:07 PM
Feb 2016

Nor are they honest.

politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
73. Who died and made you king?
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:57 PM
Feb 2016

Who are you to determine who is and isn't progressive, or what words can and can't be used by progressives?

politicaljunkie41910

(3,335 posts)
78. And you're entitled to your opinions. Where I have a problem is when your opinions
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 08:16 PM
Feb 2016

try to label my opinions as right wing talking points. I have a lifetime of education, experience and I'm an avid reader. I have been a political junkie since I was on the debating team in junior high school. So I don't need anyone telling me what is and is not a right wing talking point.

 

Armstead

(47,803 posts)
108. "Free stuff" is a core right wing talking point
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 12:17 PM
Feb 2016

You may not be a right winger, or think you are saying the same thing -- but you are when you use that phrase.

'

 

Shandris

(3,447 posts)
31. I disagree. It IS free stuff. After all, Republicans tell us that a things value is not its...
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 06:10 PM
Feb 2016

...intrinsic worth, it is merely the value the market attaches to it. At this point in time, the market has attached a per-person cost of $0 to education. Who are we to challenge the primacy of the market's wishes?

 

Jester Messiah

(4,711 posts)
33. Or just us receiving the due benefit of our tax dollars.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 06:13 PM
Feb 2016

Why the hell my tax money should go to prop up some fat cat instead of maintain goddamn civilization...

handmade34

(22,757 posts)
34. recovery process??
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 06:15 PM
Feb 2016

how bout we start the conversation with the "recovery process" for our African American brothers and sisters??

handmade34

(22,757 posts)
41. I didn't say that
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 06:24 PM
Feb 2016

I merely suggested we all understand history and look at how we got to where we are now... starting with the acknowledgement of how devastating slavery was for some and how that has influenced the Black communities...

I sure could use a break on old student loans and past health care bills but all in all I am white and I have had it pretty damn good compared to others... we have a lot of history to make reparations for -from slavery to big banks exploiting us and everything in between

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
56. i agree..many have had a raw deal
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:27 PM
Feb 2016

and the aa community has a legacy of tremendous long term bias against them. so far, bernie wants to make major changes in several areas that disproportionately affect aa's....health care, criminal justice reform, education, jobs, and community revitalization. whether he rolls out plans to try and retroactively repair past damage remains to be seen. i haven't seen any candidate do that yet, although i don't know what om intended to do.

poprocks71

(15 posts)
46. I want back from my success sharing
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 06:36 PM
Feb 2016

No matter what you make per year or the amount of your check everyone pays the same percent in taxes. It's considered unearned income, which is bull pucky. My last check was $100 annnnd I still had to pay 40%.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
48. Bernie needs to frame
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 06:56 PM
Feb 2016

…it this way.

I sometimes find his way of saying this point becomes stale. It's a great, short, debate-worthy way to say it.

Send it to his campaign manager. I have no idea how to do this, even though I've searched for how to do this before.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
58. :) will look into that, but i would be shocked
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:31 PM
Feb 2016

if his campaign people are not regular visitors here to gauge the temperature of the campaign


airplaneman

(1,240 posts)
52. Yes I am rally sick of the free stuff meeme too.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:21 PM
Feb 2016

Right next to taxing to death (like the 2.5% medical items tax).
These statements are so far from reality its hard to understand how anyone could believe the statements.
-Airpalne

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
53. It's time to invest our taxes in ourselves and our nation.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:23 PM
Feb 2016

It's time to tax the corporations and 1% to pay for the things they benefit from and use every day.

It's time to put the NEEDS of the 99% over the DESIRES of the 1%.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
66. even dems and reporters have jumped on board
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:43 PM
Feb 2016

i probably should have put it in quotes..i referred to it derisively, of course

and yes, the code is getting used liberally now...

earthside

(6,960 posts)
103. Get used to it.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 11:37 AM
Feb 2016

When Sen. Sanders gets the nomination, the Repuglicans will go after him 100 percent on 'free stuff' and 'socialism'.

But the good thing is that we know that and threads like this show us how to respond effectively.

The truth is indeed that the crony capitalism that has gained such prominence in this country since Reagan is cheating.

What else can you call it when a person works hard 40 hours a week and can only make a minimum wage that doesn't even pay the living expenses of a teenager? What else can you call when you put thousands and thousands of dollars in a 401K for retirement and see your investment nearly wiped out because of Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, derivatives, and government bailouts? (And even after 8 years of Obama you haven't got back what you had?)

From what I've seen so far the "free stuff" argument is opening the door to very strong responses from the Sanders campaign.

It is going to be a rough general election, but absolutely Sen. Sanders can win because he is channelling the anger --- and hope --- of working and middle class people in this country.

Hillary cannot do that. Period.
And whomever the Repuglican nominee is can't do that either.

 

jtuck004

(15,882 posts)
69. Poor, wretched, and stupid peoples, nations determined on your own misfortune and blind to your own
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 07:52 PM
Feb 2016

good! Dictators work havoc. You let yourselves be deprived before your own eyes of the best part of your revenues; your fields are plundered, your homes robbed, your family heirlooms taken away. You live in such a way that you cannot claim a single thing as your own; and it would seem that you consider yourselves lucky to be loaned your property, your families, and your very lives. All this havoc, this misfortune, this ruin, descends upon you not from alien foes, but from the one enemy whom you yourselves render as powerful as he is, for whom you go bravely to war, for whose greatness you do not refuse to offer your own bodies unto death. He who thus domineers over you has only two eyes, only two hands, only one body, no more than is possessed by the least man among the infinite numbers dwelling in your cities; he has indeed nothing more than the power that you confer upon him to destroy you.

Where has he acquired enough eyes to spy upon you, if you do not provide them yourselves? How can he have so many arms to beat you with, if he does not borrow them from you? The feet that trample down your cities, where does he get them if they are not your own? How does he have any power over you except through you? How would he dare assail you if he had no cooperation from you? What could he do to you if you yourselves did not connive with the thief who plunders you, if you were not accomplices of the murderer who kills you, if you were not traitors to yourselves? You sow your crops in order that he may ravage them, you install and furnish your homes to give him goods to pillage; you rear your daughters that he may gratify his lust; you bring up your children in order that he may confer upon them the greatest privilege he knows — to be led into his battles, to be delivered to butchery, to be made the servants of his greed and the instruments of his vengeance; you yield your bodies unto hard labor in order that he may indulge in his delights and wallow in his filthy pleasures; you weaken yourselves in order to make him the stronger and the mightier to hold you in check.

From all these indignities, such as the very beasts of the field would not endure, you can deliver yourselves if you try, not by taking action, but merely by willing to be free. Resolve to serve no more, and you are at once freed. I do not ask that you place hands upon the tyrant to topple him over, but simply that you support him no longer; then you will behold him, like a great Colossus whose pedestal has been pulled away, fall of his own weight and break in pieces.
...


http://www.constitution.org/la_boetie/serv_vol.htm


People have been pointing out very much what you said for a long time, eh?

From
The Discourse on Voluntary Servitude
ÉTIENNE DE LA BOÉTIE,
1548



 

HenryWallace

(332 posts)
80. It's a cost of doing business!
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 08:27 PM
Feb 2016

The bounty which society produces at the very minimum must provide for a adequate social safety net for all it's citizens!

In a modern industrialized society, people cannot be consigned to the vicissitudes of laissez-faire market forces..... This is not, nor has it ever been a rational option. Private charity immediately prove inadequate and ultimately reward the most selfish at the expense of more empathetic of us.

The rise of Capitalism necessitated the rise the progressive movement; and in fact, Capitalism's continued viability is dependent upon our ability to moderate it's excesses (project to last 30 years out another 30 years and the world will be on the verge of digressing into feudalism).

Serious people have always struggled with articulating what the extent of this "safety net" should be and how to fund it.

The Republicans (and by association the Third-Wayers) have lost their seat at the adults' table. Unending tax cuts, dogmatic calls for smaller government and rigid insistence on economic (this word is often omitted) freedom lack long term rationality!

neverforget

(9,436 posts)
93. The Pentagon has a slush fund of $58.8 billion.
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 10:53 PM
Feb 2016
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2016/02/11/obamas-tenure-set-to-close-by-spending-59-billion-through-pentagon-slush-fund/

The Pentagon’s proposed budget for fiscal 2017 includes both a $523.9 billion base budget and $58.8 billion in Overseas Contingency Operations (OCO) funding. The use of OCO funding has been derided by critics, including the Project for the Oversight of Government, as a “slush fund” for the Pentagon, but in 2017 it again includes billions of dollars for new equipment.
--------
“I would say that all parties — including the White House, the Pentagon and Capitol Hill — have given up any pretense of using emergency money for emergencies,” Eaglen said. “No one even tries to put the veneer of accountability on OCO dollars anymore.”
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The new OCO budget also includes $8.1 billion for classified programs across the Defense Department. That money will go toward the military’s secret programs, and will not be subject to the same level of scrutiny as the rest of the budget. The Defense Department does not disclose details about the programs to protect national security, said Mark Wright, a Pentagon spokesman.
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“I would just say it’s a politically convenient way of getting around the budget cap,” Harrison said. “Ideally, when a new administration comes in office next year, they should try to strike a deal with Congress that addresses all this. I don’t think that’s realistic, though. I think realistically we’re going to stumble along year to year, and that we will continue to use OCO funds to get around the budget caps.”


Can you imagine a "slush fund" for helping Americans with Flint water crisis, infrastructure, health care, poverty? Yeah, I can't either. The lobbyists for them just can't compete with the MIC.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
95. of course not. the little people are just irritating noisemakers
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 06:00 AM
Feb 2016

and props to be exploited by clintoncorp.

raouldukelives

(5,178 posts)
97. And it ain't just the 1%.
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 08:44 AM
Feb 2016

They had a lot of help from the 10% along the way to lie, cheat and steal their way to the top.

The longer it continues, unabated, the harder the climb out of it will be. Heck, thanks to the invaluable assistance of shareholders in denying the effects of climate change, it might not even be possible. That has to weigh heavy on ones conscience.

Assuming one has one of course.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
98. that is true
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 08:49 AM
Feb 2016

and yes, the longer it goes, the more likely we reach the point of no return. if we havent already.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
118. Especially things like fixing bridges and WATER SYSTEMS....
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 05:24 PM
Feb 2016

We have been hearing two things for too long.

"Tax cuts for the rich" and "there's no money to pay for it".

Keep in mind Bush gave the rich a trillion dollar tax cut in the middle of the war in Iraq.

restorefreedom

(12,655 posts)
119. yes, and its a matter of time
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 05:26 PM
Feb 2016

before we have major problems due to the obsolescence of the electrical grids.

but hey, lets have another war and another bank bailout....

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