2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumDKOS: Why I Have Switched from Bernie to Hillary
...snip...
I'm tired of idealistic campaign rhetoric. When Trump talks about we're just gonna win, win, win, big wall, smack China, we know it's all bluster. Bernie talks about single payer and free college tuition for all but that is no more realistic with this Congress than a magic wall. I don't even WANT free college tuition for affluent young people. In some countries they can do it because relatively few go to universities--not so here. It's completely unbelievable.
And then I watched the debates. I have a lot of reservations about Hillary Clinton. There are things she has done and votes, e.g., Iraq, she has cast that I can't accept. But I watched the debates. She is intelligent, composed, knowledgeable across the board. We can argue about labels but Clinton is a liberal with a liberal voting record. Is she too hawkish? I think so. I think she is too pro-Israel. But I don't think she's reckless. She had positions and rhetoric on criminal justice twenty years ago that I didnt like but I think she has learned and grown as progressive people do.
And unlike Obama, whom I respect greatly, she would not make the mistake of thinking her personal charisma will create a kumbaya wave in Washington. She knows the Republicans well enough to call them "my enemy." She will go after them rather than try to convert them.
Finally, I am sick of the Hillary-bashing. I can't think of another politician in my conscious lifetime who has caught more shit than she, from people making the White House travel office a cause celebre to accusing her of killing her friend, Vince Foster, to Whitewater, to being (gasp!) a lesbian, or shrew, or thick-legged (gasp, again) to Benghazi, to ...fill in the blank. And it is misogynistic. I know people who consider her laughably dishonest and I ask them, what exactly, has she lied about? Oh, they say, everyone knows--because they have been exposed to relentless bashing of her that has not been refuted strongly enough by people on the left.
I am a socialist feminist. I believe there is no true socialism without feminism and no true feminism without socialism. I have worked in various ways to further both causes. As a citizen of the country I have a more particular responsibility to vote for the person I think is best qualified at this particular moment for what can well be considered the most important position in the world. I have decided that is Hillary Clinton.
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/11/1483752/-Why-I-Have-Switched-from-Bernie-to-Hillary?detail=email
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)Let your superiors make the decisions without your interference.
Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)There are many of us who are not filled with hope when we listen to Bernie's promises. I know I don't First of all, I don't trust his revolution, because what I've seen of some of his supporters, a lot of them seem a fickle bunch who will drop him the moment they feel he has compromised. Secondly, I know that Hillary Clinton knows how politics work. I know that she has a vision for using the political process to achieve good change in this country. Does she promise the moon? No. But she gives me hope for REAL progress.
So yes, we CAN, yes, she CAN.
Liberal_Stalwart71
(20,450 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Nonhlanhla
(2,074 posts)tonedevil
(3,022 posts)where she brings superpredators to heel.
tecelote
(5,122 posts)The problem is that it has been working against our interests.
Fearless
(18,421 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)basis with Republicans.
And she is extremely negative.
katmondoo
(6,457 posts)Some times I waver but in the end I go back to Hillary
Ron Green
(9,823 posts)a long-overdue sea change in the political economy.
earthshine
(1,642 posts)You will support her because she has been bashed over the years?
I submit to you that Bernie will serve your ideals better.
DemocraticSocialist8
(396 posts)mmonk
(52,589 posts)Wilms
(26,795 posts)...from one of any number of speeches by a politician.
The only thing she missed was, "God Bless America".
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)They are the ones who have purged this site of so many of its Hillary supporters.
Ed Suspicious
(8,879 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)The writer claims to be a socialist but is worried that rich kids might get a free education.
That is simply incomprehensible. Sorry, but I don't think the article is for real. We shall see. But I think the author may have been a Hillary supporter from the get-go.
SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)tuition, you have to a) require families to file complicated, intrusive financial statements that usually only impose their burden on poor and lower middle class families (very unfair); and b) maintain a pretty good-sized bureaucracy to read those forms and decide who "deserves" free education and who does not.
Discriminating against kids based on their income divides rich from poor. It places a burden on the poor that the rich don't have to bear.
For purposes of alcohol consumption and the draft, kids are of age at 18, but for purposes of education, they are theoretically financially dependent on their parents until they at least finish college. Go figure.
Tax the parents of the richer kids to pay a fair share of the cost of education of all kids. That is the fair way to do this. Get rid of the financial forms and the bureaucracy.
Bernie's proposal to simply transfer federal tax money to the colleges that comply with simple requirements and provide tuition-free education to students makes sense to me. It eliminates the cumbersome bureaucracy that we not use to sort out who deserves financial aid and gives states an incentive to help fund good colleges for their citizens.
I strongly support Bernie Sanders' proposal for free tuition for state colleges and universities. We cannot afford not to provide free tuition at our state colleges and universities. We need a well educated and skilled workforce.
We should increase opportunities for technical training in the schools with free tuition while we are at it. Make it an even playing field. Only a student's interest and ability should be considerations in deciding on whether to go to college. Lack of money should not be a bar.
And students should graduate nearly or totally debt-free. If they work during college, it should be for living costs, not for tuition.
SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)Fearless
(18,421 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)she is an incredibly strong woman to have survived the decades of constant attacks
Fearless
(18,421 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)Squinch
(51,007 posts)bvar22
(39,909 posts)This is a ruse, one that has been used to death in American politics.
I could knock one out like that in about 5 minutes about how I switched from Hillary to Bernie.
Those missives are total BS.
I ESPECIALLY am amused by the claims that it is supporters that have soured someone on a candidate they previously supported, but switched because of the supporters.
What kind of idiot will believe THAT line?
What kind of idiot would USE such transparent nonsense.
Nothing about important ISSUES, Policies, Track Records.....nothing at all.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)There's nothing a true believer loves more than an infidel seeing the light and joining their cause. It tells them "See! People that aren't with you know you're right too!", and they'll believe it with all their heart.
About all KOS left out was how he used to practice witchcraft and worship Satan before finding Jesus.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)toward Hillary. LMAO.
I DON'T THINK SO.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)intolerant, rigid and even hostile character of some of Sanders's supporters, so unpleasantly like the far right, only reflected their own nature, not his. They, however, and clues in him that he might really be like them, caused me to go read about far-left-wing movements and those who join them. Descriptions of attitudes and behaviors fit to a T, including the strong resemblance between extremists on the right and left, and that was the end of any possible chance that I could support him in the primary. His contempt for me and my ideology is terribly real and IMO reflects very serious personality and judgement flaws in him, not because liberals deserve it.
So, in spite of wanting many things he would also like to achieve, if he could, I believe the coming months will only reveal more of his deficiencies. That I already recognize many I do owe squarely to revelations from the behaviors of many here on GD-P. If he were to win the primary, it would be without my vote. I would vote for him in the general as the Democratic nominee in spite of the fact that he despises both liberals and Democrats because there would be no viable alternative.
Call me terminally offended, and disappointed by how much less he is than we need him to be.
LAS14
(13,783 posts)DavidDvorkin
(19,485 posts)Hekate
(90,793 posts)....we can only post so much of an article published elsewhere (4 paragraphs, I believe), so quote bits of it and indicate where other bits have been snipped out.
Also, and this is very important, copy the entire url into your post when quoting from somewhere else.
Some posters run quoted text into their own comments, which is confusing at best and misleading at worst. I prefer either using quotation marks or italicizing quoted text to make it clear which is which. You can locate font instructions directly above your text box when creating a post, in between the Reply title and the Message text: b for bold, i for italics, and u for underline. The next 3 I never use, but smilies allows you to click on little pictures like this one
Welcome to DU.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Joe the Revelator
(14,915 posts)argument played. If that was the case, we should all line up for Santorum.
DefenseLawyer
(11,101 posts)So they will be ready to follow her leadership and experience. I can't really think of anyone that Republicans love more.
ejbr
(5,856 posts)That makes them even
Fearless
(18,421 posts)Why am I not surprised?
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)I think they're in the wrong party to begin with.
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)when people bash the enormous achievements of those who actually had to struggle with the great issues of the past -- whether women's rights, gay rights, civil rights, ending the Vietnam War, raising minimum wage, fighting increased tuition costs, etc. -- and they make it sound like a victory that's not perfects hardly counts and a loss represents being part of the establishment -- it is just so unfair. My support for Bernie over Hillary was really strong, but if the Bernie supporters don't stop marginalizing anyone who doesn't worship him, Hillary will secure my vote ... not only out of spite, but over deep admiration for all the women's movement has done for not only women, but for the LGBTQ community as well.
mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)Say, since her time as a Goldwater girl?
Why not just jump up to when she decided gays could get married after all?
Just curious as to what you're talking about.
Onlooker
(5,636 posts)Bernie is frankly Mr. Irrelevant on the big stage. Sure, as an individual he always had liberal positions, but he never pursued them on the national stage. He didn't have to do battle with the far right and the bigots who were forcing lawsuits and legislation to deny gays any rights. The Clintons were the first to meet with gay rights groups, court gay votes, appoint and nominate gays to high positions, allow gays in the military, allow gays to get security clearances, and so many other things. Hillary is deeply connected with the feminist movement which was on the forefront of gay rights. On the national stage you meet national opposition, but the Clintons helped legitimize the gay community. That's why they have so much support in the gay community. Sanders was a good guy on the issue, but he didn't do anything about gay rights. The Clintons helped legitimized gays, but in doing so they aroused the wrath of the far right that was busy winning lawsuits and passing legislation to deny gays rights. It's against that backdrop that the Clintons sought and created a path.
I remember when Bill Clinton proposed allowing gays in the military, not only the Republicans but the Democrats as well were violently opposed. Sam Nunn, the head of the Senate defense committee, threatened to stop it completely and forced Clinton to compromise with Don't Ask/Don't Tell. Yet, at the time that was progress. The country was for not gay marriage until very recently.
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)SunSeeker
(51,698 posts)Stuckinthebush
(10,847 posts)Bernie has reached his high water mark.
yourout
(7,532 posts)As the saying goes....."I was born during the day..but not yesterday"
elmac
(4,642 posts)and makes a good sparring partner for Bernie. Both are training for the big event & the winner will be ready to take down any republican opponent.
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)840high
(17,196 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)The one about the Fair Princess who loves everyone and will fix everything is probably their favorite one.
libdem4life
(13,877 posts)It's those Hard Choices.
That's the beauty of the fairy tale- no matter what happens, you can interpret the Princess any way you want to. She comes with tailored outfits, accents and life stories for every part of the country!
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom