The Real Bernie Smoked Out into the Open

[kennetha]

And it's not a pretty sight.

The guy is a democratic socialist version of Marco Rubio -- a broken record, Johnny one note, programmed to go back to the same sterile talking points again and again and again, no matter the context, no matter the question.

Hilary conducts a symphony. Bernie is a second rate harpist -- harping on the same notes time after time.

"How much will you expand the size of the government in terms of percentage of GDP due to government spending?, he is asked." Cue the robotic anti-billionaire riff. But don't dare answer the question. He's asked again. Cue the riff again. Finally, it's left to Hillary to answer on his behalf.

It turns out it's an astounding 40%. And notice, he didn't challenge that number. He just leaves it there hanging. Maybe that's s cause he can't deny it. Maybe because that was nowhere on the preprogrammed script.

And you don't have to be a Wingnut to think that ain't too likely to come about anytime soon. And not just cause you couldn't get the billionaire class to go along -- as Hillary nicely pointed out, with her Scott Walker beat down of his education so-called plan.

It's become clearer and clearer that both Sanders and his supporters are engaging in magical thinking and wish fulfillment. That kind of thing is fine when you are asleep and dreaming, but quite dangerous when you are awake and trying to navigate the real world. In the real world doors don't just open when you say in a loud and hectoring voice "open says a me." Mountains don't move on command.

So the question is are you asleep or awake? If you are happily asleep and refuse to wake up from your dream, alright stick with Bernie. If you are awake, join Hillary in her quest to make real changes for the real world.

[Autumn]

1. Wide awake and proudly standing side by side with Bernie!

Intrepid 2016!!!

[berniepdx420]

26. +420

[stillwaiting]

2. Congratulations. You've made the list. Way too many ridiculous posts.

You are not my political ally. At all.

Bye!!



P.S. I know you don't give the slightest fuck. The feeling is super mutual.

[NowSam]

73. You made me smile

Because you are honest and practical!

[roguevalley]

89. I thought the OP was the onion for a moment.

I still have that half in my mind. LOL! When he and his message make it to the White House I will return to this post and LOL! for a moment or two before listening to his inaugeration speech. But that's just me.

Burning in Alaska for Bernie.

[djean111]

3. I am awake, so I will be sticking with Bernie.

Your authoritarian little directives don't wash or even mean much; this is merely your own biased opinion.

[Armstead]

4. I guess you could work harder to crush aspirations....But such sentiments push the envelope

Are they passing out "magical thinking" as a new buzzword because unicorns has been overused?

[kennetha]

14. Magical thinking feels good, doesn't it?

[Armstead]

28. Every goddamn thing that is good in the world started with "magical thinking"

You know you actually have a sort of point that I agree with. I wish Bernie would loosen up a bit, and talk about things like the need for compromise, or partial steps, or reevaluation of the specifics of the pkan.

But you wrap it into such bile and bullshit that I hesitate to even mention that.

[kennetha]

48. Just having a little fun

You sound like a Bernie person I could actually have a real conversation with.

Most of 'em ... not so much.

[UglyGreed]

72. So much fun!!!!

I like pulling the wings off of flies and slamming toads against trees......

[aikoaiko]

5. Reagesque a la “Government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem."

Its time to fight that bull.

[kennetha]

49. such all or nothing thinking.

[fleur-de-lisa]

6. NO WE CAN'T ! ! !

[kennetha]

12. Yes we can

achieve real change in the real world.

No we can't make ill thought out fantasies come true.

[PyaarRevolution]

31. Paid college is a fantasy?

It existed in California until Reagan canned it and universal healthcare exists in the rest of the industrialized world so don't tell me I'm dreaming of something that can't come true.

[kennetha]

37. And that's evidence of what?

as to its current feasibility? You think we can just say "rewind the clock" and lo and behold the clock is rewound?

[yeoman6987]

68. Ok so when Reagan left no one decide to bring it back?

[NowSam]

7. What is wrong with 40% expansion?

The government is the People's government. Why not expand it? That is a lot more jobs and a lot more control by the people over the resources that belong to all of us and not just to the top shareholder of corporations.

If expanding government creates jobs, provides healthcare, closes "for profit prison systems", etc. What is wrong with that?

To compare Bernie Sanders to Marco Rubio is absurd. He speaks off the cuff and with ease. It is Hillary that is micro managed to parse every word and every phrase. Every thing about her is poll tested and crafted for "Image" and guess what? He is rising and she is falling in the polls. Everyone has heard her take a dozen positions on every issue. Is that preferable to being consistent in message? Bernie is winning hearts and minds and votes because you can't throw him off message. Truth.

[kennetha]

16. You want to stand and fight the election

on that ground. Go ahead.

And the Rubio comparison is becoming more and more apt. Get Bernie off his one note, and he sounds pathetically lost.

[berniepdx420]

33. read something ... here...

http://feelthebern.org/all-issues/

[NowSam]

52. I don't accept preconceived notions

It's time to wake up from mass hypnosis of what can and can't be accomplished.

I guess we wI'll just have to disagree on your comparison.

I will give you mine. Hillary is another Bush. More war. More status quo.

[kennetha]

58. by pre-conceived notions

you mean real world facts, based on an honest look at the situation?

Imagine you were a quarterback, trying to read a defense, and adjust the offense, Bernie keeps calling the same play over and over, year after year, despite repeated failure. Hillary is the master at reading the defense. She takes what openings are available. Takes the short pass when the downfield coverage is too tight. Bernie throws into coverage constantly, leading to pick after pick by the defense. His inability to read the defense causes us to get routed in the end.

[farleftlib]

65. If you insist on using a football analogy

Hillary is Bill Belichick stealing plays from the opposing team. Her concession speech after NH was pure #stealthebern!

[NowSam]

70. What repeated failure?

Hillary is part and parcel of a system that has failed the people. Bernie is offering a choice had hasn't been given a real try since FDR succeeded with his new deal. Your world view is opposite of mine and may I say you sound like a lot of Republicans I know.

[LexVegas]

8. When they have to attack John Lewis to prop up their man, there is a problem. nt

[bravenak]

32. That. That thing is the thing.

[Armstead]

34. If John Lewis had not attacked Sanders in such a snarky way there would be no problem.

[berniepdx420]

54. +420

[NaturalHigh]

56. That is undoubtedly true.

Frankly I don't like John Lewis anyway.

[farleftlib]

60. snarky and disingenuous. n/t

[Fawke Em]

47. Thing is... they didn't.

That was made up by David Brock and posted as fact.

Sanders fans didn't attack Lewis. Brock used the same circular logic that Dick Cheney used on Meet the Press after he leaked information to Judith Miller and then cited her article as proof of his argument. Sad.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511205305

[TwilightGardener]

9. You dance with the one what brung ya.

This seems an attempt by the Clinton crowd to get Bernie away from his core message by charging that he's repetitive. He is, because that's what he believes. It's an interesting tactic, don't think it will work.

[farleftlib]

10. That bad and still beating Hillary

Doesn't say much for her candidacy, does it?

[SoLeftIAmRight]

11. Ouch

...

[BillZBubb]

13. Pathetic.

Let's retain the status quo and not say bad things about the billionaires! We can't have more government, that would be socialism! The real world is about accepting what is bad and taking your medicine! We can't do anything meaningful, that would cost money!

Yeah, that's a real attractive platform for you wide awakers.

[kennetha]

20. There's a lot of distance between

more government and 40% more government.

there are a ton of meaningful things we can do. Can't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

[peacebird]

83. Hillary would be'the good' for her fellow 1%ers. The rest of us, nah. She won't even rule out cuts

to SS.

[cali]

29. I think it's funny. Great example of really lousy rhetoric.

[Avalux]

15. LOLOLOL! You must have been listening to Hillary's shill Paul Begala last night.

This is the next line of attack, I see. Have fun!!

[Z_California]

17. One note

yeah, I mean delivering that history lesson on Kissinger, how many times have we heard that already? And that stuff on income inequality, racial justice, climate change, police reform, immigration, the kids fleeing violence from Central America who we sent a message with, it's like he won't stop talking about it.

Brilliant fucking OP.

[kennetha]

23. thanks for the complements

I like you too.

[farleftlib]

39. Those are compliments, actually

Hillary and the corporate rule are complements.

[Ron Green]

79. !

[NurseJackie]

18. It would not be incorrect for me to say that I cannot disagree with you.

[Red Oak]

19. Busted - I AM engaged in wishful thinking

I wish that Clinton, with Hillary in support, had not signed NAFTA and helped decimate manufacturing in the USA
I wish Clinton, with Hillary in support, had not gotten China into the WTO and helped decimate manufacturing in the USA
I wish that Hillary didn't have millions in donations from those that profited from NAFTA and China in the WTO
I wish Hillary had actually helped the middle class while in office. I know, I know she helped children get health care - what else?
I wish Hillary had taken a leading position against the Iraq war and helped stop the debacle there.
I wish Hillary wasn't such a middle East war hawk.
I wish Hillary would release the transcripts of her Goldman Sachs tapes.
I wish Hillary would renounce super PAC money, instead of heading to Wall Street to get more of it.
I wish Hillary would renounce billionaire donors that give her super PAC $8M checks.
I wish Hillary would reject the money donated to her by "FOR PROFIT" prison corporations.

I wish.....

[kstewart33]

21. A bit harsh.

But you're right about the unlikelihood of Bernie's proposals getting passed in Congress. However, that won't happen because of Congress. It won't happen because Bernie won't win, assuming he gets the nomination. There is enough in his proposal and in his biography for the rabid Republican assassination squad to make mincemeat of him.

Then, with a very conservative Republican president, we'll lose the Supreme Court and all of the gains in individual rights that we've made recently. And of course, we'll lose Obamacare, and millions will lose their insurance.

Bernie's nomination would set back the liberal cause for many years. That's too much to risk.

[kennetha]

24. exactly

[bowens43]

22. 50 pounds of shit in a 5 pound sack... LOL

[cali]

25. Bwahaha.

What a creative little op.

You aren't good at this though. In fact, that's a yuuge understatement. Clunky and obvious. Work on your rhetoric, ken.

It desperately needs it.

Have a super duper hilly day!

[DefenseLawyer]

27. Funny, I saw several things this morning indicating that this might be the latest Clinton attack

Sanders is Rubio. Sanders is a broken record. And what do you know? It appears that suddenly a lot of Hillary's grassroots supporters are all thinking the exact same thing. Simultaneously.

[kennetha]

30. Great minds think alike

[Avalux]

42. Yep - when I saw this OP I couldn't help but laugh.

Paul Begala said it last night after the dabate to get the ball rolling. So funny!

[cali]

53. Sooo clunky and obvious.

[djean111]

61. Just more Hillarysupportersplaining.......

getting entertaining, really!

[basselope]

35. Hillary is far too naive to be president.

[TCJ70]

44. She doesn't even believe money influences politics...

...or maybe just not her money. Either way, it's incredibly naive.

[EdwardBernays]

36. how stupid

I know you think that having a wide variety of opinions on the same thing is somehow more inspiring... and flip flopping certainly means you can appeal to a lot more people... until they find out you're just full of shit... but this meme... it's embarrassingly stupid.

[kennetha]

45. says you

but you've drunk the kool-aid and maybe not the best judge. Talk to me when you've come down off your high.

[EdwardBernays]

84. Hardly

I grew up in Arkansas. My dad worked for Bill. I know the Clintons very well... I'm in a decent enough position to judge. No Kool aid.

[PyaarRevolution]

38. Why are you complaining about more government in this sense?

I mean are we hard right Republicans?

[CoffeeCat]

40. You're trying to spin crap into gold; and gold into crap

Regarding your attempt to spin gold into crap:

Sanders has a coherent, cohesive message that he has carried with him during the course of his political career--and he now carries it with him into his Presidential campaign.

He means what he says. He says what he means. That's why he's on-point when it comes to his messages.

This is not about having a varied buffet of shiny new soundbytes and fresh messaging at every turn--for Sanders. He's got a core of ideas about changing this country, breaking up revolting corruption, and helping the middle class.

So yeah. You may get a little tired of the repetition. But the repetition is due to the his consistency.

This isn't a frickin Broadway show. This is a political campaign. Bernie Sanders is not here to entertain you.

Regarding your attempt to spin crap into gold:

Hillary Clinton and her campaign, are still struggling to find a coherent message. After more than a year of campaigning, she still can't find her core messages. As Sanders gained in popularity, she commandeered his key messages--in a vain attempt to glom onto his winning strategy. Now, she seems to be saying that she's a change candidate. Or something.

Your candidate has no focused message that resonates and appeals to a broad audience. She's still on first base, with her campaign staff, who are reportedly in jeopardy of losing their jobs because the campaign is flailing like a penguin trying to run on ice.

Her lack of a central, relatable message is a problem. It's nothing to be proud of. It's one of the main reasons that people say she's not trustworthy.

Bernie's consistency of message is his key strength. It's why he clawed his way to a tie in Iowa. It's why he shellacked her in New Hampshire. It's the main reasons that people trust him.

[dreamnightwind]

41. You're against expanding the role of the federal government?

Are you a Democrat? Because I don't think Democrats stand for profiteering off of people's health, nor for privatization.

Putting the health industry under the federal government rather than under private insurance corporations whose only concern is the size fo their profits is exactly what a Democrat should support.

After that, let's let the U.S. Post Office provide community banking services, as Bernie proposes. Or do you also support profiteering by massive financial sector corporations?

I'm wide awake and working for Bernie. We haven't had a serious candidate this much on the side of the people in my lifetime, and I'm in my 50's.

[kennetha]

46. Sure expand the role of the government.

Try selling a 40% expansion in a general election.

Try getting democrats around the country to sign up for that.

Calling George McGovern. This time we're going to win that fight, George. Cause, you know.....

[dreamnightwind]

59. First, the 40% is Hillary's claim

not Bernie's. I'll wait to hear Bernie's numbers, not that I even care, I think it's great to move people from profit-driven heartless corporations to federal jobs supporting healthcare.

This argument is about as disingenuous as the 17 trillion dollar cost of Bernie's plan argument is. It ignores the fact that this money, and far more, is being spent already on our private system. You appear to be ignoring that we have a vast number of employees working for private health insurers, and you're focusing on how many people the federal government would need to add rather than the honest discussion that we currently have many corporations with overlapping functionality requiring vastly more resources and extracting massive amounts of money from the pockets of Americans.

Plus you're arguing strictly on Republican terms, stoking fear about expanding government.

Sorry I just don't see it, at all. The single payer plan is a wonderful thing to fight for. It might be a long fight, or pubic opinion might come around to enable it soon. Either way, it's the correct fight, and waging that fight will make it more possible. It also validates Democratic positions rather than letting Republicans rant against the federal government. What we need to rant against are the obscene profits the corporate health insurers are making off of our sickness and deaths.

[jillan]

43. What you are missing is we are awake and we are supporting Bernie.

[Dems to Win]

50. We don't want more Kissinger-style change in our real world

Hillary might be more slick and polished, but Bernie has far better values and judgement. This was prominently on display last night.

[NCTraveler]

51. K&R Forward we march. #hillyes nt.

[BlueCaliDem]

55. SPOT. ON.

to you, kennetha.

[thereismore]

57. I like to read insightful OP-Eds. This is neither. You made my very short, very exclusive list. Bye.

[TCJ70]

62. He is one note...

...one important note. People matter and government isn't working for them. I like that note and will continue to support it.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

63. OMG! Bernie's going to GROW the government?????

Not leave it small enough to drown in a bathtub? Heaven forbid he doesn't want to fulfill your RW fantaises of a tiny government!

[kennetha]

64. Bernie actually ISN'T going to grow the government

he'll never get the chance.

[Dragonfli]

66. Let me just leave you with this

Inside a dreamer's mind a vision starts to grow
a seed of rhyme once sown in time that realists fail to know
but look around and marvel! Grave realists as you see
That all we've built began as seeds of dreams of what may be

Extra points if you can tell me who wrote it.
(hint this is a much abridged version)

[stage left]

67. Rubio is speaking words somebody else wrote for him

Bernie Sanders is speaking his own words. And it's Open Sesame. Maybe if you're not seeing doors opening, it's because you've got the magic words wrong. Everything on earth that has ever been created by man first lived in someone's imagination.

[VulgarPoet]

69. "real changes" sure

The ME will be a parking lot, we'll have taken 20k+ casualties to our military, and we'll be fighting another illegal, immoral war while the bureaucrats continue to financially sodomize the lower class.

No thanks.

[beaglelover]

71. AWESOME OP!!!! I agree with you 100%

[kennetha]

76. thanks

[stage left]

74. Oh, BTW

I would never compare Hillary to any of the Republican candidates. They are not fit to kiss the feet of either of our candidates.

[Shandris]

75. Ahh, so 'Conspiracy Theorists and Tinfoilers' didn't work, time to try the opposite?

"Y-you don't want to have m-magical thinking do you?!? Because if not, believe in Hillary! Granted, she's never said an honest word in her entire life, but she'll magically fight for you this time! Promise!"

You were saying something about 'magical thinking'?

[Hiraeth]

77. Hillary is the nightmare. Wake up to Bernie. eom.

[Gothmog]

78. The US is not a single issue nation

[hobbit709]

80. Your obsessive monomania is showing.

Have you come up with anything substantive and factual in your dreamworld.

[peacebird]

81. Happily awake. No way will I join forces with 'We came, We Saw, He died', a supporter of clusterbomb

Who supports monsanto and opposes labelling of GMOs so consumers have a choice.

Who showed incredible lack of judgement by supporting the IWR, and calling Kissinger a mentor.

Who takes huge money from WallStreet and tells us that consumers caused the crash.

And especially not one who never saw a war she didn't want to engage other peoples children to fight.

I Feel The Bern. He's the real deal.

[deutsey]

85. +1

I said at the beginning of the primaries that I wanted Bernie to be candidate, but that I'd vote for Hillary if she was the candidate.

More and more, I'm reconsidering whether I can vote for Hillary. The only way I think I can do that is by emphasizing that I'm voting against the Republican's nominee.

[Ron Green]

82. LOL!!

Just check out the names in the "recommended" list for this thread. It's all who you'd expect.

By the way, it's not about the "free stuff," or even the "40%." It's about the national conversation we've never had in our lifetime.

[suffragette]

86. The real question is what type of government expansion benefits citizens more

Under Republicans, we have seen enormous expansion in so-called security zones, from Border operations in the north receiving so much money that they have expanded operations beyond their mission in order to keep the money being funded to fusion centers which endanger civil rights while egregiously wasting the exorbitant funds spent on them.

I would much rather this wasteful spending be contracted and the funding be redirected to programs that genuinely increase people's security, from providing real access to health CARE to fixing our crumbling infrastructure to enhancing education.

There's also the benefit in the types of jobs this emphasis would produce.

[workinclasszero]

87. Bernie's plan

Raise minimum wage to 15 bucks an hour: "Revolution"

Free health care: "Revolution"

Paid one month off for all a year: "Revolution"

Free college: "Revolution"

Raise the massive taxes to pay for it all and get it through the teahaddist controlled House: "Revolution"

That's Bernie's plan to get the democratic nomination, genius pure genius. Tell people what they want to hear, f**k reality.

Its working pretty good for him so far.

[SamKnause]

88. Wide awake here.

I am wide awake, aware, alert, and informed.

I am backing Bernie 110%.

FEEL THE BERN

[Matariki]

90. I see the new talking points have been issued

[Katashi_itto]

91. The lithium drip is not working is it.

[firebrand80]

92. There are reasons to prefer Hillary over Bernie

message discipline isn't one of them. Hillary could actually use a little of that herself.

and Rubio's problem isn't that he repeats talking points. It's that he continued to repeat a talking point about an issue that nobody was arguing with him about at a time when someone was attacking him for repeating talking points and he knew days in advance that the attack was coming.

[Alfresco]

93. An awakening kick. :-)

[taught_me_patience]

94. noun-verb-millionaires and billionaires

He's more like the Rudy Guiliani of the Democratic party (in terms of repetitive verbage).