A Low Blow?

[bigtree]

Hillary Clinton:

Today Sen. Sanders said that President Obama failed the presidential leadership test. And this is not the first time that he has criticized President Obama in the past he's called him weak. He has called him a disappointment. He wrote a forward for a book that basically argued voters should have buyer's remorse when it comes to President Obama's leadership and legacy.

And I just couldn't agree, disagree more with those kinds of comments. You know, from my perspective maybe because I understand what President Obama inherited – not only the worst financial crisis but the antipathy of the Republicans in Congress. I don't think he gets the credit he deserves for being a president and sending us into the future.

And it is the kind of criticism that we've heard from Sen. Sanders about our president I expect from Republicans. I do not expect from someone running for the Democratic nomination to succeed President Obama.

Bernie Sanders:

Madam Secretary, that is a low blow. I have worked with president Obama for the last seven years. When President Obama came into office we were losing 800,000 jobs a month. 800,000 jobs a month.

We were in a 1.4 trillion dollar deficit and the world's financial system is on the verge of collapse. As a result of his efforts and the efforts of Joe Biden against unprecedented, I was there, unprecedented Republican obstructionism, we have made enormous progress.

But you know what? Last I heard we lived in a democratic society. Last I heard, a United States senator had the right to disagree with the president including a president who has done such an extraordinary job. So I have voiced criticism. Maybe you haven't. I have.

But I think to suggest that I have voiced criticism, this blush that you talk about, you know what the blurb said, it said that the next president of the United States has got to be aggressive in bringing people into the political process. That's what I said. That is what I believe.

President Obama and I are friends. As you know, he came to Vermont to campaign for me when he was a senator. I have worked for his re-election. His first election and his re-election. But I think it is really unfair to suggest that I have not been supportive of the president. I have been a strong ally with him on virtually every issue. Do senators have the right to disagree with the president? Have you ever disagreed with a president. I suspect you have.

here's Sen, Sanders in 2011 calling Pres. Obama 'weak,' and calling for Pres. Obama to be 'primaried' :

Sanders, July 22, 2011: ...Let me just suggest this. I think that there are millions of Americans who are deeply disappointed in the president, who believe that with regard to Social Security and a number of other issues, he said one thing as a candidate and is doing something very much else as a president, who cannot believe how weak he has been — for whatever reason — in negotiating with Republicans, and there’s deep disappointment. So my suggestion is, I think, you know one of the reasons the president has been able to move so far to the right is that there is no primary opposition to him. And I think it would do this country a good deal of service if people started thinking about candidates out there to begin contrasting what is a progressive agenda as opposed to what Obama is doing.

The next caller then followed up, asking, “Who out there would you suggest? Who are you talking to? Are you encouraging anyone?”

Sanders, July 22, 2011: At this point, I have not, but I am now giving thought to doing it. You know the names out there as well as I do. And I think the American people have got to be engaged, it’s not just me or anybody else here in Washington. There are a lot of smart, honest progressive people who I think can be good presidents. And I think one of the reasons President Obama has moved as far to the right as he has, is he thinks he can go all the way and no one will stand up to him.

[Bonobo]

1. Why on earth should any president not face a challenger from their own party?

What is with that?

The will of the people and all that.

Listen to yourself.

[Babel_17]

44. Using Ted Kennedy as an example, like Secretary Clinton has done, we see that ...

Ted Kennedy didn't just talk about a primary challenge against a Democratic President, he actually mounted one. And when Secretary Clinton, in 2007, was the anointed one, Senator Ted Kennedy in effect said, I have a better idea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy#1980_presidential_campaign

1980 presidential campaign
Main article: United States presidential election, 1980

Kennedy finally decided to seek the Democratic nomination in the 1980 presidential election by launching an unusual, insurgent campaign against the incumbent Carter, a member of his own party. A midsummer 1978 poll had shown Democrats preferring Kennedy over Carter by a 5-to-3 margin.[75] During spring and summer 1979, as Kennedy deliberated whether to run, Carter was not intimidated despite his 28 percent approval rating, saying publicly: "If Kennedy runs, I'll whip his ass."[129][131] Carter later asserted that Kennedy's constant criticism of his policies was a strong indicator that Kennedy was planning to run for the presidency.[134] Labor unions urged Kennedy to run, as did some Democratic party officials who feared that Carter's unpopularity could result in heavy losses in the 1980 congressional elections.[135] By August 1979, when Kennedy decided to run, polls showed him with a 2-to-1 advantage over Carter,[136] and Carter's approval rating slipped to 19 percent.[135] Kennedy formally announced his campaign on November 7, 1979, at Boston's Faneuil Hall.[131] He had already received substantial negative press from a rambling response to the question "Why do you want to be President?" during an interview with Roger Mudd of CBS News broadcast a few days earlier.[131][137] The Iranian hostage crisis, which began on November 4, and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, which began on December 27, prompted the electorate to rally around the president and allowed Carter to pursue a Rose Garden strategy of staying at the White House, which kept Kennedy's campaign out of the headlines.[131][138]

Kennedy's campaign staff were disorganized and Kennedy was initially an ineffective campaigner.[138][139] The Chappaquiddick incident emerged as a more significant issue than the staff had expected, with several newspaper columnists and editorials criticizing Kennedy's answers on the matter.[138] In the January 1980 Iowa caucuses, which initiated the primaries season, Carter demolished Kennedy by a 59–31 percent margin.[131] Kennedy's fundraising immediately declined and his campaign had to downsize, but he remained defiant, saying "[Now] we'll see who is going to whip whose what."[140] Nevertheless, Kennedy lost three New England contests.[131] Kennedy did form a more coherent message about why he was running, saying at Georgetown University: "I believe we must not permit the dream of social progress to be shattered by those whose premises have failed."[141] However, concerns over Chappaquiddick and issues related to personal character prevented Kennedy from gaining the support of many people who were disillusioned with Carter.[142] During a St. Patrick's Day Parade in Chicago, Kennedy had to wear a bullet-proof vest due to assassination threats, and hecklers yelled "Where's Mary Jo?" at him.[143] In the key March 18 primary in Illinois, Kennedy failed to gain support of Catholic voters, and Carter crushed him, winning 155 of 169 delegates.[56][131]

With little mathematical hope of winning the nomination, and polls showing another likely defeat in the New York primary, Kennedy prepared to withdraw from the race.[131] However, partially due to Jewish voter unhappiness with a U.S. vote at the United Nations against Israeli settlements in the West Bank, Kennedy staged an upset and won the March 25 vote by a 59–41 percent margin.[131] Carter responded with an advertising campaign that attacked Kennedy's character in general without explicitly mentioning Chappaquiddick, but Kennedy still managed a narrow win in the April 22 Pennsylvania primary.[131] Carter won 11 of 12 primaries held in May, while on the June 3 Super Tuesday primaries, Kennedy won California, New Jersey, and three smaller states out of eight contests.[144] Overall, Kennedy had won 10 presidential primaries against Carter, who won 24.[145]

Although Carter now had enough delegates to clinch the nomination,[144] Kennedy carried his campaign on to the 1980 Democratic National Convention in August in New York, hoping to pass a rule there that would free delegates from being bound by primary results and open the convention.[131] This move failed on the first night of the convention, and Kennedy withdrew.[131] On the second night, August 12, Kennedy delivered the most famous speech of his career.[146] Drawing on allusions to and quotes of Martin Luther King, Jr., Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and Alfred Lord Tennyson to say that American liberalism was not passé,[147] he concluded with the words:[148]

"For me, a few hours ago, this campaign came to an end. For all those whose cares have been our concern, the work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives, and the dream shall never die."

The Madison Square Garden audience reacted with wild applause and demonstrations for half an hour.[131] On the final night, Kennedy arrived late after Carter's acceptance speech and while he shook Carter's hand, he failed to raise Carter's arm in the traditional show of party unity.[56][147] Carter's difficulty in securing Kennedy supporters during the election campaign was a contributory factor that led to his defeat in November by Ronald Reagan.[147]

[Babel_17]

45. For the record

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Kennedy#Illness_and_a_new_president

Kennedy became dissatisfied with the tone of the Clinton campaign and what he saw as racially tinged remarks by Bill Clinton.[232][233] Kennedy gave an endorsement to Obama on January 28, 2008, despite appeals by both Clintons not to do so.[234] In a move that was seen as a symbolic passing of the torch,[219] Kennedy said that it was "time again for a new generation of leadership," and compared Obama's ability to inspire with that of his fallen brothers.[233] In return Kennedy gained a commitment from Obama to make universal health care a top priority of his administration if elected.[

[BillZBubb]

2. Of course it is a low blow. Hillary is desperate.

Desperate times call for desperate distortions.

[Stallion]

22. How Is Using Bernie's Own Words Against him a "Low Blow"

its simply drawing a distinction on an issue-which is generally what candidates do

[BillZBubb]

25. Words taken out of context are often used for low political purposes.

For instance if Bernie said "Obama's leadership was lacking on such and such a proposal", Hillary would make the blanket statement "Bernie said Obama's leadership was lacking". That is deceptive and low.

[Stallion]

29. Clinton Didn't Use His Statements Out of Context

Clinton used them exactly in the context of the original interview-that Sanders hoped that Obama would face a primary opponent-now I can see why Sanders' people don't want that message out there but it is true, accurate and quite frankly pissed me and many other Democrats off the first time we heard it

[Historic NY]

30. There is video from the Thom Hartmann show...

its pretty damn clear in the give and taken.

[TCJ70]

3. There is little to disagree with in his comments...

...also, I seem to remember a narrative early on in this primary season suggesting Sanders candidacy pulls Clinton to the left and that was portrayed as a good thing. Obama's negotiation tactics with Republicans left much to be desired. He negotiated not from the left, but from the middle, giving up ground right off the bat, which moves your end result significantly to the right. There is nothing wrong with what he said.

[farleftlib]

4. Pot meet kettle

Hillary Clinton criticizes President Obama’s foreign policy in interview with the Atlantic

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-criticizes-president-obamas-foreign-policy-in-interview-with-the-atlantic/2014/08/11/46d30564-2170-11e4-8593-da634b334390_story.html

Former secretary of state Hillary Rodham Clinton has not yet said whether she will pursue the presidency. But for a candidate-in-waiting, she is clearly carving out a foreign policy distinct from the man she used to serve.

In the spring, President Obama articulated a philosophy for avoiding dangerous entanglements overseas that was modest in its ambitions and focused on avoiding mistakes. Don’t do stupid things, he said.

Now Clinton is offering a blunt retort to that approach, telling an interviewer, “Great nations need organizing principles — and ‘Don’t do stupid stuff’ is not an organizing principle.”

I don't know but that sounds like some serious criticism to me.

[Historic NY]

31. Sure sounds like advice, the same advice in her book.....

The Washington Post created the headline.

[farleftlib]

39. I hear not only criticism but snark as well

The headline was kind, IMO.

[virtualobserver]

5. He said..some people felt that Obama was weak in negotiating with the Republicans on social security

he was.

He wasn't calling Obama weak.

[cali]

6. Yes. Typical hill bullshit.

[dchill]

7. I voted for President Obama in 2008 because I was inspired.

I voted for him in 2012 because I'm a Democrat.

[farleftlib]

8. IKR

[thomservo]

9. .

[Rebkeh]

10. This again

I resent the use of the President, who I love, in an attempt to gain the upper hand in a disingenuous attempt to put Bernie on defense. It's sick and people see this tactic for exactly what it is.

I think it's dishonorable, the President deserves better.

[thomservo]

12. YES!

[bigtree]

19. I think the president is itching to defend Hillary against Sander's attacks on his admin's policies

...the president certainly deserves better than this opportunistically Democratic candidate questioning his leadership in the middle of our party's primary.

[Rebkeh]

24. Kinda missing the point there

And the President will not be on the ballot anyway. But whatever. Carry on.

[bigtree]

33. hypocritical to 'use' the president to make your point

...and then complain the president isn't the issue when it's pointed out he's more than likely in agreement with Hillary.

[Rebkeh]

41. No.

The point here is that it doesn't matter if the President is in agreement or not. If his legacy cannot stand on its own (it most certainly can), it isn't much of a legacy.

[pinebox]

11. Invoking Teddy Roosevelt right now!

What is this "don't criticize Obama" bullshit?
NO politician should be above criticism and this is exactly one of the things which is wrong with the system today.
"Oh no, Bernie said something bad about Obama!"
Paging Teddy.

[Little Star]

13. In 2011 Bernie was not even a Democrat so......

it's no wonder he would feel ok about calling the president weak and calling for him to be primaried....

In April 2015, Sanders announced that he was seeking the presidential nomination for the Democratic Party. This longtime independent made the party switch largely out of political necessity. "It would require an enormous amount of time, energy and money just to get on the ballot in 50 states" as an independent, he said to USA Today. "It made a lot more sense for me to work within the Democratic primary system where it's much easier to get on the ballot and have a chance to debate the other candidates."

http://www.biography.com/people/bernie-sanders

[dorkzilla]

14. Horseshit

That manure may be excellent for your Spring garden bed though!

[Broward]

15. Hillary repeatedly resorts to underhanded, sleazy tactics.

She's "berning" many bridges for the general if she wins the nomination.

[leftofcool]

21. And yet, Bernie said all of those things about our First AA President.

This does not bode well outside White NH.

[kydo]

16. Typical Bernie BS

Oh my those are his initials too

At least HRC wasn't wagging her finger at people

What ever. HRC pretty much creamed him last night and the closing statement WOW!!!

[farleftlib]

20. What channel were you watching?

Bernie wasn't as great as usual but he still mopped the floor with HRC.

[kydo]

23. One might ask you that question. But I was watching the debate

Bernie wasn't very good at all. Hillary was way better and I think she schooled him on pretty much everything. She looked like a President, cool, calm and lots of facts. Bernie came off as an angry old man wagging his finger at everything.

[farleftlib]

26. OK so we were watching different debates

And the angry old Bernie meme is not working anymore.

[kydo]

28. Yeah, I was watching the debate that was on last night 2/11 on PBS

And of course the BS guy is angry won't work on you, your a fan. So, first you need to take off the BS guy can't do no wrong glasses covering your eyes.

How ever for the rest of us ... well he sounded and looked very much like an old angry white guy. Sorry if you don't like that but its true.

[DefenseLawyer]

17. I think the President was pretty weak at times.

I also think he's far and away the best President of my lifetime (b. 1969). But really, as soon as he named Rahm Emmanuel as his chief of staff he got off track. So on too many issues, particularly in the first term he was too cautious: Grand bargain, Simpson Bowles, Chained CPI, sequestration, mass deportation, TPP, to name a few. I'm further left than the President and I don't think I have to suddenly become a third way disciple out of blind loyalty.

[EndElectoral]

18. May not be popular, but I agree with these Sanders points.

If I remember HRC had quite a few disagreements with Obama as well and actually ran against him. It was a desperate and cheap shot and she is aware of that, but it's politics as usual.

[BillZBubb]

27. What's hilarious about this Clintonian move is

If Hillary wins the nomination she will distance herself from a lot of Obama's actions prior to the general election.

[jillan]

32. I could've sworn I lived in the United States of America and not North Korea & that we

have the RIGHT to question our leaders.

[bigtree]

34. question him all you want

...but don't tread on my own right to disagree when he's attacked on his 'leadership' in the midst of a Democratic primary by an opportunistically converted independent turned Democrat.

[TCJ70]

35. This is what a discussion is...

...two (or more) people presenting their opinions. No one is "treading" on anyone, except Sanders, for being correct about Obama's negotiation tactics.

[fleur-de-lisa]

36. Epic fail for Hillary.

Bernie's response to her bullshit was masterful!

[Justice]

37. Is BS communicating here that his primary opposition to HC is to keep her from moving to the right?

[basselope]

38. And Sanders was 100% correct when he said it.

Obama is a center right president who failed us at the most important time.. when he could have pushed the public option through via reconciliation.

He caved to the insurance and drug companies, who were big donors to his campaign.

Weak is putting it nicely.

[flamingdem]

40. Bernie does walk his talk, here is is filibustering

Bernie is the loyal opposition. I think that Obama respects him for this. Because Bernie is so determined and intelligent of course he is a threat to Hillary and to some extent Obama's legacy. But in other ways he celebrates and compliments Obama. Bernie plays inside the rules almost all the time.

Dec. 10, 2010

Senator Bernie Sanders took the floor for 8,5 hours to filibuster the extension of the Bush Tax Cuts, which unfairly benefited the high incomes and disastrously affected working and middle class in America.

[Autumn]

42. I choose to agree with Bernie. That's democracy ,holding feet to the fires and all that

uncomfortable stuff people cringe about.

This right here? That's the way it should be and we need more politicians willing to speak truth, not less.

Sanders, July 22, 2011: At this point, I have not, but I am now giving thought to doing it. You know the names out there as well as I do. And I think the American people have got to be engaged, it’s not just me or anybody else here in Washington. There are a lot of smart, honest progressive people who I think can be good presidents. And I think one of the reasons President Obama has moved as far to the right as he has, is he thinks he can go all the way and no one will stand up to him.

[Jefferson23]

43. Keep imagining no one understands Hillary WHY and WHEN you use Obama as your airbag.

Keep it up and keep talking about Kissinger too..PLEASE!

New Hampshire:
Over 90 percent of voters who rated trustworthiness as most important voted for Bernie.