2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumIf you support Hillary, you support Kissinger. If Democrats nominate Hillary, they
are endorsing Kissinger. What a profound insult to humanity.
bigtree
(86,005 posts)...pure bullshit.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,728 posts)On Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:39 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
GTFO - nt
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1210931
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Does this really need an explanation. One DUer telling another to get the fuck out?
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Feb 12, 2016, 09:46 AM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Get a grip
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Meh.
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Grow up.
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Explanation: The spew in this forum is pathetic, it's going to need a military grade fumigation when the primaries are finally over. This kind of think truly is making DU suck. sharp_stick
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
Response to KingCharlemagne (Reply #3)
fleur-de-lisa This message was self-deleted by its author.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)as a human being and one swell ass SOS, just like her.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)Let's change the value for x.
Instead of Kissinger, let's use Dick Cheney. If HRC had written a fawning review of a Cheney book, and called him a friend and adviser, would you feel the same?
And yes, before you cry out that there is a huge difference between between the two, let me a agree with you. Cheney is nowhere near as bad as Kissinger.
dchill
(38,532 posts)between Dick Cheney and Bill Press, would it not?
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)he is not, to my knowledge, a war criminal.
dchill
(38,532 posts)that Bernie Sanders wrote a blurb for. I thought that was what you meant.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)very nice and very flattering, and no mention of how Kissinger can't visit a few dozen countries because he would be arrested for war crimes. As recently as this week she had praise for him and bragged about his mentoring her.
dchill
(38,532 posts)She is more a member of the power elite than a member of the Democratic Party.
jham123
(278 posts)great post
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)She likes Kissinger. Kissinger is an unconvicted war criminal.
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)Ken Burch
(50,254 posts)She hasn't said which of Kissinger's actions she actually disagrees with.
And she needs to.
Nothing(other than the China thing)that Dr. K did could ever be acceptable for a Democratic president to do.
restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)could come from or be encouraged by such an individual, and that the recipient of that advice is PROUD of it, blows my mind
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)Maybe they should "get a room" and plot the next genocide together.
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)magical thyme
(14,881 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)boston bean
(36,223 posts)said, done or written?
polly7
(20,582 posts)Control oil and you control nations; control food and you control the people.
Military men are just dumb, stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy.
boston bean
(36,223 posts)But this OP is pure bunk. Hillary seeking advice from anyone does not mean she agrees with them. She does have a mind of her own. And we all know that even sometimes our enemies can have a valid point of view.
So, if you are going to have a standard, hold everyone to it, ok. That was my point, in case you missed it.
polly7
(20,582 posts)How is he in any way comparable???
boston bean
(36,223 posts)I was comparing a standard that some have set.
polly7
(20,582 posts)and don't tell me what to do, mmmkay?
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)Last edited Fri Feb 12, 2016, 11:36 AM - Edit history (1)
Don't pal around with genocidal maniacs nor take the advice on matters of war and peace
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)"pall around"
I've seen this term thrown at Hillary around here quite a lot lately.
Just another example of the "left" attacking from the right. Right now this place is a looney tunes marathon.
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)That guilt by association was one of her favorite tools, but I'm sure you are doing her proud by spelling it correctly.
If we can't judge Hillary on her foreign policy advisors, her campaign contributors, her war votes, her paid speeches, her pervious campaigns or her ever changing positions, then what are we supposed to judge her on? Her nice outfit and harirdo?
jham123
(278 posts)It can't be put more plainly than that, the Hillary supporters are being very obtuse on this subject. Classic deflection. They are even dragging Sarah Palin into the discussion as if that is going to whitewash Clinton's actions and who she uses for advice on foreign policy.
face it Clintonistas, Hillary was totally blindsided last evening when the Kissinger topic was exposed. She had nothing but a bunch of platitudes and once again, Bernie was spot on.
Marr
(20,317 posts)You cannot judge her at all. The only way to know her is to make her president.
Marr
(20,317 posts)We are talking about a former SoS saying another SoS was a personal mentor and friend. You're as far off the deep end as Palin was. Guilt by association is one thing, denying that open, policy-centered associations mean anything is just as loony.
redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Makes one wonder about where some of the attackers' loyalty really lies
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Are you assuming that the term "Pal around" was invented by Palin and the GOP?... or is it a very old English phrase. According to Dictionary.com, it appears around 1900.
Is associating ad judging people with an old English idiom worse than associating people with whom they do indeed "pal around" with?
frylock
(34,825 posts)Yours lie with your Party and their candidate.
Marr
(20,317 posts)saying Kissinger is a personal mentor on foreign policy indicates nothing whatsoever.
very well stated,
And Last week, "Albright: 'Special place in Hell'......Oh, she's been saying that a long time, means nothing
This week, "Kissinger is a personal mentor" that's some old thing from years ago, means nothing
"I never saw Bernie" [at the Civil Rights movements] SEE!! Bernie is a liar!!!
retrowire
(10,345 posts)"Hillary seeking advice from anyone does not mean she agrees with them."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
OMFG STAHP PLEASE
Marr
(20,317 posts)I think that's so obvious that it shouldn't need to be stated.
oberliner
(58,724 posts)You should stop posting it.
Response to polly7 (Reply #17)
JTFrog This message was self-deleted by its author.
Bohemianwriter
(978 posts)nyabingi
(1,145 posts)Merryland
(1,134 posts)remember how disgusting Kissinger was. She shouldn't have admitted their creepy relationship.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)to me forever for that, fitting on Lincoln's birthday.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)I think it is silly to think one has to agree 100% with all of the candidate's positions to decide to support him/her.
I happen to think she erred with the email server. That does not mean I will not support her. Same with seeking advice from Kissinger. We really do not know the details or topics of any discussion they had.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)Consorting with a war criminal, then bragging about is one such line. As I asked another poster above, would you feel the same way if it were Dick Cheney?
DrDan
(20,411 posts)how do you feel about that?
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)Meeting with former presidents is expected. The last Democrat with any legit reason to meet Kissinger was Carter, since he inherited Kissinger's mess. HRC has gone out of her way to consort with Kissinger, to write a fawning review of his book and to praise his "service" and "expertise".
Again, change the name from Kissinger to Cheney and tell me how you would feel about voting for someone who had high regard for Dick Cheney's policies and "expertise" in foreign affairs.
cali
(114,904 posts)nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)for real, now. how can this man be your "hero" if you had any simpatico with the anti-war movement?
the answer is none.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)in fucking prison FOR LIFE. Just WTF???
CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)But hey, she has "evolved" since then.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)which lead to horrific, murderous regimes that butchered millions.
Clinton's foreign policy....backed coups and created failed states, which lead to horrific murderous regimes that butchered millions.
mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)and a Goldwater girl.
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)B/c he was too much of an incrementalist.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)In 1970 she chaired the student meeting at Yale that did a general strike. Same year she went to a law firm that defended the black Panthers.
Do people here not know that Hillary Clinton was a died in the wool hippy?
nashville_brook
(20,958 posts)Freddie Stubbs
(29,853 posts)you support Castro.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Freddie Stubbs
(29,853 posts)CBGLuthier
(12,723 posts)Kissinger is a soulless monster masquerading as a man.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)Cuba for her support of Angola against Apartheid South Africa, thereby squaring this disgusting circle.
Hillary supports black people, provided they're American black people. Angolans? Meh, not so much, one must conclude.
polly7
(20,582 posts)CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Cuba than did Castro.
vdogg
(1,384 posts)I don't support Kissinger. Now what?
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)because it looks an awful lot like Kissinger's.
Backed right-wing coups? Check.
Created failed states? Check.
Sat back as brutal, totalitarian regimes took over those failed states? Check.
Still pushing to back more coups and create more failed states, despite the results above? Check.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)And ... If you know this, and vote for her anyways, knowing this is true, then you are voting for Kissinger's philosophy ...
The key here is YOU KNOW IT ... If you know it, then still vote for it, then we CAN say you embrace Kissinger's policIes ....
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts).
DhhD
(4,695 posts)voters, agreeing the GOP restoration by waiting for an IS-like State to set up so a Bush-like Marshall Plan could provide federal contracts to the Warmonger Industrial Complex. She will continue to drain the economy from the workers to the Elite. So let all of you folks that want to get poor vote for the status quo, candidate. Obama is back in the Middle East sending more and more troupes, just like Hillary said at the debate (Feb 11, 2016): It is what she wants; and Obama can make it so. That is what I heard at that debate.
vdogg
(1,384 posts)At no time has Hillary stated that she has adopted Kissenger's philosophy, and you know it. She consulted with prior Secretaries of State (plural, because it wasn't just Kissinger) prior to taking the job. This is prudent when taking on responsibility of that magnitude. You can disagree with someone philosophically and still find their insight valuable when it comes to running the day to day operations of a department.
Trajan
(19,089 posts)The decision to print that photo as part of the campaign message - the association is there by choice ... The implication is that she is allied with his cause ...
You don't make those choices without repercussions ...
Kissinger is reviled ... You don't embrace the devil without expecting to get burned ... Whether she embraces his philosophy is almost beside the point ...the error is done
katmondoo
(6,457 posts)I was
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)A portrait of Debs, who originally supported the Russian Revolution and the Bolsheviks before turning away, hangs on Bernie's Congressional office wall.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)Solidarity!
AOR
(692 posts)where reactionaries and defenders of the power and privilege of a very small ruling class of capital, war, and Imperialism stand when they spit on Eugene Debs.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I am opposing a social order in which it is possible for one man who does absolutely nothing that is useful to amass a fortune of hundreds of millions of dollars, while millions of men and women who work all the days of their lives secure barely enough for a wretched existence."
--Eugene Debs
"What can Labor do for itself? The answer is not difficult. Labor can organize, it can unify; it can consolidate its forces. This done, it can demand and command."
--Eugene Debs
"Private appropriation of the Earths surface, the natural resources, and the means of life is nothing less a crime than a crime against humanity, but the comparative few who are beneficiaries of this iniquitous social arrangement, far from being viewed as criminals meriting punishment, are the exalted rulers of society, and the people they exploit gladly render them homage and obeisance."
--Eugene Debs
"The master class has always declared the wars; the subject class has always fought the battles."
--Eugene Debs
"They tell us that we live in a great free republic; that our institutions are democratic; that we are a free and self-governing people. That is too much, even for a joke. ... Wars throughout history have been waged for conquest and plunder... And that is war in a nutshell. The master class has always declared the wars; the subject class has always fought the battles."
--Eugene Debs
"Ten thousand times has the labor movement stumbled and bruised itself. We have been enjoined by the courts, assaulted by thugs, charged by the militia, traduced by the press, frowned upon in public opinion, and deceived by politicians. 'But notwithstanding all this and all these, labor is today the most vital and potential power this planet has ever known, and its historic mission is as certain of ultimate realization as is the setting of the sun."
--Eugene Debs
"Yes, I am my brother's keeper. I am under a moral obligation to him that is inspired, not by any maudlin sentimentality but by the higher duty I owe myself. What would you think me if I were capable of seating myself at a table and gorging myself with food and saw about me the children of my fellow beings starving to death."
--Eugene Debs
"If it had not been for the discontent of a few fellows who had not been satisfied with their conditions, you would still be living in caves. Intelligent discontent is the mainspring of civilization. Progress is born of agitation. It is agitation or stagnation."
--Eugene Debs
"Nothing is more humiliating than to have to beg for work, and a system in which any man has to beg for work stands condemned. No man can defend it."
--Eugene Debs
"I don't want you to follow me or anyone else. If you are looking for a Moses to lead you out of the capitalist wilderness, you will stay right where you are. I would not lead you into this promised land if I could because if I could lead you in, someone else could lead you out."
--Eugene Debs
"Those who produce should have, but we know that those who produce the most - that is, those who work hardest, and at the most difficult and most menial tasks, have the least."
--Eugene Debs
"Every solitary one of these aristocratic conspirators and would-be murderers claims to be an arch-patriot; every one of them insists that the war is being waged to make the world safe for democracy. What humbug! What rot! What false pretense! These autocrats, these tyrants, these red-handed robbers and murderers, the "patriots," while the men who have the courage to stand face to face with them, speak the truth, and fight for their exploited victims-they are the disloyalists and traitors. If this be true, I want to take my place side by side with the traitors in this fight."
--Eugene Debs
"When we are in partnership and have stopped clutching each other's throats, when we have stopped enslaving each other, we will stand together, hands clasped, and be friends. We will be comrades, we will be brothers, and we will begin the march to the grandest civilization the human race has ever known."
--Eugene Debs
"They have always taught and trained you to believe it to be your patriotic duty to go to war and to have yourselves slaughtered at their command. But in all the history of the world you, the people, have never had a voice in declaring war, and strange as it certainly appears, no war by any nation in any age has ever been declared by the people."
--Eugene Debs
"I am guilty of believing that the human race can be humanized and enriched in every spiritual inference through the saner and more beneficent processes of peaceful persuasion applied to material problems rather than through wars, riots and bloodshed."
--Eugene Debs
As long as he owns your tools he owns your job, and if he owns your job he is the master of your fate. You are in no sense a free man. You are subject to his interest and to his will. He decides whether you shall work or not. Therefore, he decides whether you shall live or die. And in that humiliating position any one who tries to persuade you that you are a free man is guilty of insulting your intelligence.
-- Eugene Debs
"Beware of capitalism's politicians and preachers! They are the lineal descendants of the hypocrites of old who all down the ages have guarded the flock in the name of patriotism and religion and secured the choicest provender and the snuggest booths for themselves by turning the sheep over to the ravages of the wolves.
-- Eugene Debs
Marr
(20,317 posts)Imagine living in such a bubble that you actually think everyone else agrees with you that Kissinger is great and labor leaders are bad.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)you support stalin - see? Can this season get any more ridiculous?
retrowire
(10,345 posts)you're right, that statement was ridiculous.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)which you would know if you weren't so incredibly tied to your nominee. This place gets more ridiculous by the day.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)his friendship with Stalin.
Oh, wait. . .
But nice try at a false equivalence.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Or should I have said Marx? I don't know why I even go to this GD-P forum - it's a sewer.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)We can learn from everyone. As a young man Bernie Sanders consulted the writings of a variety of political thinkers.
"He (Bernie Sanders) read psychology, sociology and history. He read Marx, Lenin and Trotsky."
Politico: Bernie Sanders has a secret
I certainly don't think that makes Bernie or his supporters admirer of Marx, Lenin and Trotsky.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Clinton has repeatedly praised Kissinger, and publically stated that he guides much of her foreign policy thinking.
Lordquinton
(7,886 posts)Said he was the best SOS he'd ever seen,, or to that effect.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)she praised him and his policies. She calls him a friend and trusted adviser.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)I've read the Little Red Book. I even own a copy, as I do writings from Marx, Lenin and Trotsky.
I also own Mein Kampf. Why? Because it is a historical primary source.
I also own the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and I'm Jewish.
Here's the difference. Kissinger is a WAR CRIMINAL!
What is this? "We Love Henry" Day?
Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)...
think
(11,641 posts)as part of his administration. There is room for nuance.
That said I don't support Hillary Clinton as the Democratic nominee and it does bother me that she's a Kissinger fan....
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)To tout her friendship with that war criminal????? Just WTF?????
erlewyne
(1,115 posts)The reason I may hesitate is I do not care for
this Hillary/Bernie war. It is not supposed to be
personal.
But her cozening up to Kissinger is putrid,
to say the least.
I was drafted and spent two years in hell.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)of Lincoln's birthday.
I have students from Vietnam and from Chile this term. All of them have family and friends whose lives were adversely affected by the actions of this monster.
olddots
(10,237 posts)Like Hillary is famous and should be able to hang out with the famous people .
SCantiGOP
(13,873 posts)convoluted OP.
Try to post some positive things, instead of just trying to piss off everybody on the other side.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)salute Senator Sanders.
Joined in solidarity by tens of thousands of Latin American ghosts.
lobodons
(1,290 posts)While at same time Bill Clinton also received advice from his predecessors George Bush and Ronald Reagan.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)lobodons
(1,290 posts)Those are top five-ish, I would say more the top 10-ish range
UnBlinkingEye
(56 posts)Monica, is that you?
GummyBearz
(2,931 posts)Wicked burn!
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)and her friendship with one of the greatest butchers of the last half of the 20th century. No shame. Kissinger has the blood of millions on his hands.
ericson00
(2,707 posts)so if I had to chose, I'd choose the former, not the latter.
think
(11,641 posts)mikehiggins
(5,614 posts)except for the ones who died in Viet Nam.
Welcome to the ignore list.
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)She was a hippy.
Kelvin Mace
(17,469 posts)for torture, murder and illegal wars that killed millions over people who has done no such thing? Also, what is the basis of your determination that Chomsky (Noam Trotsky? Really? How juvenile) and West are "communists?
Let me clue you in on a secret: J. Edgar Hoover is not a reliable judge of character
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)Someone who likes Kissinger more than Noam Chomsky and supports Hillary...
I am not surprised... Very sad I am.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)ericson00
(2,707 posts)that should make any patriot cringe. And you don't need to be a conservative to do the cringing.
At least Kissinger appreciates what this great nation has given him (and the world).
SoLeftIAmRight
(4,883 posts)and yes they do hurt
I am no patriot - that is a abhorrent notion to me
I am a human. I live on earth.
ericson00
(2,707 posts)I'm not. Hence why I oppose Noam Chomsky and Cornel West. Is America flawed? Of course. What nation isn't?
gollygee
(22,336 posts)You might have made a wrong turn on the way here.
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)but so much nonsense comes from the bernie camp....
EndElectoral
(4,213 posts)Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)know it couldn't have been when she was a corporate Walmart lawyer.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)presidential candidate that was against and voted against the CRA.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)'64 campaign.)
nyabingi
(1,145 posts)around, many of them hardcore neocons and liberal interventionists.
If Bernie really wants to zing her on foreign policy during the next debate, he needs to bring up her laughing about Gaddafi being brutally murdered (what potential world leader actually goes on TV and laughs at having another world leader killed?) and the fact that another one of her mentors, Albright, thought that the sanctions on Iraq which resulted in over half a million children dying (lack of medicine was a big reason) were worth it.
Hillary has a treasure trove of awful foreign policy decisions, things any bright person would be ashamed to bring into the public spotlight.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)If you support Sanders, then you support Rand Paul - and not even tangentially. Now that's a profound insult to humanity.
BTW, fuck Rand Paul.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Affirming the consequent is a common fallacy made by the irrational mind, as is a dramatic lack of objective evidence to support a premise.
However, I'm quite confident you will creatively rationalize your fallacy as something it is not. Your bias depends on doing as much. I wish you good luck and god-speed, little fella.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)rtracey
(2,062 posts)An arrogant statement. One can support a candidate, yet not support his /her associates and vice versa, case in point..... I did not and will not ever support the Bush / Cheney administration or actually recognize them as americans, but I do support and have been a strong advocate for Colin Powell.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)That's nice.
But I wouldn't trust a word he said.
He didn't lie about breaking a vase or wrecking the car, y'know.
He lied us into starting an unnecessary war with a country that had not attacked us.
rtracey
(2,062 posts)He lied, or he was conveying the information and intelligence he was given, the sames as what every democrat, yes including Hillary was given and what some voted for in 2002?
Colin Powell was/is an exceptional military leader who I believe got caught up in the Bush/Cheney bullshit.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)to learn what that ass kisser was up to in the cover up of My Lai. See, it all comes back to Vietnam and Cambodia. kissinger is a war criminal, but Powell aided, abetted and enabled war crimes.
procon
(15,805 posts)itsrobert
(14,157 posts)I heard Bernie say on the debate that Hillary is a great friend of his. So if you support Bernie you support Hillary and by this logic you support Kissinger and Nixon and Pat Buchanan and the KKK. Go figure.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)"It's a good thing young men don't think." Sounds like Kissinger sort of ripped off Hitler.
Feeling the Bern
(3,839 posts)DU has lost its mind.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)nt
BeyondGeography
(39,379 posts)SoapBox
(18,791 posts)And very to the point.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)I'd love to see someone make a nice video tutorial for younger voters about why this is so abhorrent, as there may be quite a few voters out there whose only knowledge of Kissinger comes from school history books published by those who would like to whitewash history.
Make it go viral ....
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)stopbush
(24,396 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)Beacool
(30,251 posts)DFW
(54,437 posts)If you liked Tip O'Neill, you liked Reagan
[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]
Verrry interesting, but....
Somehow, I managed to like Tip O'Neill and still despise Reagan
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)than Reagan (think Hitler).
So if someone says he or she likes Hitler, you can still like that person even while "despising" Hitler?