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madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 05:50 PM Feb 2016

Superdelegates were meant to give less power to "insurgents", more to party's insiders.

From an article from How Stuff Works.

Superdelegate Pros and Cons

Superdelegates are simply "unpledged voters." Their vote represents their own choice, rather than the wishes of the voters, and these unpledged delegates can pledge their votes as they see fit.

Superdelegates have to consider how to use their votes carefully. They may:

Vote in step with how the voters in the majority of states voted
Vote in line with Democratic voters nationwide
Vote in favor of the candidate with the most pledged delegates, even if it is just a slim majority.


....What's the point of having superdelegates in the first place? Explains Willie Brown, former mayor of San Francisco, "You have superdelegates because … You don't want bleed-over from the Green Party, the independents and others in deciding who your nominee will be" (source: CNN). Brown cites the ability of undeclared or non-Democrat voters in some states to cast a vote in Democratic primaries or caucuses. The logic follows that if enough of these nonaffiliated voters cast ballots, voters outside the Democratic Party could decide the nominee.

Adding superdelegates to the convention provides a countermeasure against such an event. Since superdelegates are all registered Democrats (and usually elected officials), it's reasonable to assume they wouldn't vote contrary to Democratic Party lines. But to some, the power superdelegates have to sway a nomination flies in the face of a democratic process. "If the superdelegates go against the popular will of the voters, whoever emerges as 'victor' will enter the presidential election shorn of democratic legitimacy and devoid of electoral credibility" warned columnist Gary Younge during the 2008 race" (source: Guardian).


More details on how and why the Superdelegates began. It is from a review of
Reinventing Democrats:The Politics of Liberalism from Reagan to Clinton

It was part of the power grab of the Democratic Party by the Democratic Leadership Council.

Game Plan

If you imagine the DLC as a team, then the captain would have to be Al From. A veteran of the Carter administration, From took over the House Democratic Caucus after the 1980 elections with visions of rejuvenating his ailing party. He had some natural allies. As Baer points out, there were at least three strains of Democratic pols who felt the party needed redirection---Southern Democrats like Sen. Sam Nunn and Sen. Lawton Chiles, neoconservatives like Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan, and neoliberals like Rep. Tim Wirth and Sen. Gary Hart. Although they came to their views from different angles, they wound up agreeing on many of the same positions: They believed that the Democratic Party should be tougher on crime and foreign policy, less spendthrift with entitlements, and less indulgent of entrenched special interests like civil servants and unions. They also thought that moving the party in this direction would "restore its electoral viability" with the middle class that had deserted it for Ronald Reagan.

How did a group of elite politicians and operatives transform a political party?

First, they gave themselves a little bit of distance. After several unsuccessful attempts to influence the party establishment from within, the reformers formed the DLC as an extra-party organization in 1985. This avoided what Bruce Babbitt referred to as the "Noah's Ark problem"---the need to satisfy diverse constituents by taking representative positions on behalf of each one. They could also raise their own money (which DLC honchos like Virginia's Chuck Robb were notably good at), start their own think tank (the Progressive Policy Institute), and publicize their own views without tangling with the cumbersome Party bureaucracy.

Second, they worked the rules. They pressured the party to create a new class of "super delegates" consisting of state party leaders and elected officials who, they hoped, would balance out the interest groups that had come to dominate Democratic conventions. They also lobbied to cluster Southern and Western state primaries on "Super Tuesday," so that candidates who were strong in that part of the country (especially conservative Southern Democrats) would get an early boost that could offset a poor showing in more liberal Iowa or New Hampshire.


More on superdelegates from Jeff Stein at Vox.

What are “superdelegates,” and what do they mean for the Democratic nomination?

What is a superdelegate, anyway?

As Elaine Kamarck writes in her book Primary Politics, the creation of superdelegates was a reaction to the messy 1980 Democratic convention, in which Ted Kennedy and his supporters challenged sitting President Jimmy Carter. Many Democrats felt that the democratization of the primary process had led to chaos, and resulted in many nominees that ended up losing. Therefore, they wanted to give party elites more of a say.

"We must also give our convention more flexibility to respond to changing circumstances, and, in cases where the voters' mandate is less than clear, to make a reasoned choice," Jim Hunt, who headed the commission that considered reforming the party's rules, said at the time, according to Kamarck's book. "We would then return a measure of decision-making power and discretion to the organized party."


Perhaps, as Hunt's quote suggests, the Democratic officials themselves believed this was a responsible way to ensure that the party nominated the right candidate. But it's much harder to believe that that they didn't foresee the undemocratic implications of bolstering the "decision-making power" of party leaders.[/blockquote

And one more paragraph from Vox:

Why the superdelegate system is still really undemocratic (and should be abolished)

Regardless of what happens in this election, the fact that a party establishment even could overturn the voters strikes many as transparently unfair.




49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Superdelegates were meant to give less power to "insurgents", more to party's insiders. (Original Post) madfloridian Feb 2016 OP
Yeah. That's why they stepped in to nominate establishment types like stopbush Feb 2016 #1
I guess you could call this "superdelegate-'splainin". madfloridian Feb 2016 #2
Perhaps your opinion of what Democrats should ve may not be in step with what Thinkingabout Feb 2016 #3
Assume you refer to tea party. madfloridian Feb 2016 #4
The RW TP group had aspriations of taking over the GOP, Thinkingabout Feb 2016 #6
Okay so you think we are like the tea party? I so disagree. madfloridian Feb 2016 #7
Hate to tell you this but Bernie plays with the corporations also. Thinkingabout Feb 2016 #8
Simply not going there with you. It's enough you compare us with Tea Party. madfloridian Feb 2016 #9
Actually, the Democratic Party has been ruled by the corporatist faction for 30 years. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #31
...... madfloridian Feb 2016 #38
The "Democrat" party?............ socialist_n_TN Feb 2016 #37
Some of my post is a repost from GD madfloridian Feb 2016 #5
A number of Democrats have referred to Sanders as a non-Democrat so there you go. jalan48 Feb 2016 #10
Bernie has been a D for 1.8% of his political life. stopbush Feb 2016 #12
If a name is all you care about go for it. For many of us, issues are more important. jalan48 Feb 2016 #13
Lame. The "if you don't support Bernie you don't support issues" bullshit. stopbush Feb 2016 #15
Look at the mouth on you. jalan48 Feb 2016 #16
Yep. I've earned it after decades in the D trenches. stopbush Feb 2016 #17
Yep-same here. jalan48 Feb 2016 #20
I've been registered and voted Dem for 40 years. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #39
And I've been a registered Dem for 44 years. So what? stopbush Feb 2016 #40
There's only 30% of you out there, at best. frylock Feb 2016 #41
Yeah it didn't start until the 1980s Nanjeanne Feb 2016 #11
Because we are selecting the nominee of a political party. stopbush Feb 2016 #14
Bernie stomped HRC a new mud hole, and you want to spin it... Yurovsky Feb 2016 #18
Yawn. Sorry, but I'm not impressed. stopbush Feb 2016 #19
Yep, they could shut the outsiders out and decide among themselves. madfloridian Feb 2016 #23
Yeah, I can't think of a quicker way to kill a political party in the internet age. Ed Suspicious Feb 2016 #26
No need to kill a party bent on suicide. HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #32
Great! Have at it. Nominate an Independent, run as an I stopbush Feb 2016 #34
What can people do when the Democrats don't seem to want them? madfloridian Feb 2016 #35
Oh, the Ds want you. So do the Rs. They just aren't going to nominate your candidate stopbush Feb 2016 #36
Poll of Independents: Sanders 45%; Trump 26%, HRC 9% frylock Feb 2016 #42
Doesn't mean anything. Only 5% of so-called Indies are actually Independents. stopbush Feb 2016 #43
Whatever helps you sleep at night. frylock Feb 2016 #44
It's call realism. It's called statistics. It's called history. stopbush Feb 2016 #45
Sleep tight. frylock Feb 2016 #46
I will. Dream on. stopbush Feb 2016 #47
I like the old Aerosmith. frylock Feb 2016 #48
My first historical memory is of FDR's funeral. Been voting jwirr Feb 2016 #24
+ a bunch HooptieWagon Feb 2016 #33
Forming a new party may be good advice. John Poet Feb 2016 #29
its the elites protecting themselves restorefreedom Feb 2016 #21
Damn good thing we have superdelegates to keep out folks like us. madfloridian Feb 2016 #22
Gotta stop those dirty hippies from taking over the party! John Poet Feb 2016 #30
K/R moondust Feb 2016 #25
The PTB's Insurance card.... southerncrone Feb 2016 #27
Inclined to agree. madfloridian Feb 2016 #28
K&R Samantha Feb 2016 #49

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
1. Yeah. That's why they stepped in to nominate establishment types like
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 05:53 PM
Feb 2016

Jimmy Carter, Mike Dukakis, Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
2. I guess you could call this "superdelegate-'splainin".
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 05:54 PM
Feb 2016

I have already been accused of "Bernie-'splainin" and "white-'splainin".

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
3. Perhaps your opinion of what Democrats should ve may not be in step with what
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 06:04 PM
Feb 2016

Democrats wants. There are far left, moderates and centrists, we are still Democrats. You can argue your point but the Democrat party is not ruled by a portion of the party. The GOP has allowed the TP to split their party, we don't need a Democratic TP.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
6. The RW TP group had aspriations of taking over the GOP,
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 06:30 PM
Feb 2016

Tell the GOP their platform and get the Republican platform to mirror their opinions.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
7. Okay so you think we are like the tea party? I so disagree.
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 06:32 PM
Feb 2016

I don't even want to take over the party....there's been enough of that. I would like to have it out of the hands of the corporate world which is why I support Bernie.

It's a shame you feel we are like the tea party.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
8. Hate to tell you this but Bernie plays with the corporations also.
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 06:39 PM
Feb 2016

The NRA is a gun manufacture lobbyist, Lockheed Martin continues to get votes to fund, and meetings with other lobbyists from different companies for banks, energy and tobacco industries.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
9. Simply not going there with you. It's enough you compare us with Tea Party.
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 06:59 PM
Feb 2016

So I am backing off, there's no point in such a discussion.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
31. Actually, the Democratic Party has been ruled by the corporatist faction for 30 years.
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 10:20 PM
Feb 2016

During which we've seen job-killing free-trade agreements, soaring incarceration rates, union busting, stagnant wages, increasingly militant police forces, domestic spying...I can go on and on. As one vote I don't have any power. But I don't have to cast that vote for an increasingly tone deaf and out of touch party. We go along because we fear the alternative. But the only reason the DLCorporatists can stay in power is because they're getting our votes. If we refuse to vote for them, they can't deliver favors to their corporate masters, who cut off their funding. The direction we need to go is pretty clear...Bernie Sanders is showing the way.

jalan48

(13,870 posts)
10. A number of Democrats have referred to Sanders as a non-Democrat so there you go.
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 07:06 PM
Feb 2016

It's a way to keep the party "pure".

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
12. Bernie has been a D for 1.8% of his political life.
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 08:00 PM
Feb 2016

If he fails to get the nomination, he will probably go right back to being an I.

Even Reagan and Charlton Heston were Ds for a lot longer than Bernie's been a D.

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
15. Lame. The "if you don't support Bernie you don't support issues" bullshit.
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 08:08 PM
Feb 2016

By what conceit do you hold such an inflated opinion of yourself?

I ask because I've been a member of the Democratic Party since 1972, have worked for the party, have raised and donated money to the party. Why? Because I believe in the party platform, which is for equality for everyone, and which is more important than any single person who happens to call themselves a D.

What have you done for the Party?

Don't tell me about fucking issues.

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
39. I've been registered and voted Dem for 40 years.
Wed Feb 17, 2016, 04:59 PM
Feb 2016

As far as I'm concerned, Sanders is the most Democratic candidate I've ever had the opportunity to vote for. I don't give a shit what he or others call him, now or in the past.

Nanjeanne

(4,960 posts)
11. Yeah it didn't start until the 1980s
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 07:09 PM
Feb 2016

I don't know why we still have this. It's such an affront to real small "d" democracy.

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
14. Because we are selecting the nominee of a political party.
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 08:04 PM
Feb 2016

The party could opt to not even have primaries to select their candidates for president. You know, like they used to.

Hillary got just as many D votes in NH as did Bernie. Bernie got more I votes. Why on earth should the Democratic Party not have rules about the nomination that tilt towards nominating a Democrat?

Nothing says that there has to be anything democratic about selecting a nominee. The political parties have opened up their selection process to give the general public a say in the process, but it is not an absolute voice. It is a weighted voice.

That's how it should be.

If people don't like it, they should form their own political parties and make their own rules. Simple as that.

Yurovsky

(2,064 posts)
18. Bernie stomped HRC a new mud hole, and you want to spin it...
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 08:22 PM
Feb 2016

That she's the "real" Democrat? Because why? You say so? The party operatives that HRC & WJC personally selected say so?

Ignore the youth & defy the wishes of the majority, and you might win the nomination for HRC, but you might win the general election for Trump or Cruz. If you're ok with that...

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
19. Yawn. Sorry, but I'm not impressed.
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 08:27 PM
Feb 2016

Super delegates and other party operatives are not picked by the candidates. Most of them are involved in state-level politics.

Just because you assert something is a certain way doesn't mean it's true.

Campaign operatives are a different story. Different people, too.

madfloridian

(88,117 posts)
23. Yep, they could shut the outsiders out and decide among themselves.
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 09:46 PM
Feb 2016

In that case the Independent party will grow beyond belief..

 

HooptieWagon

(17,064 posts)
32. No need to kill a party bent on suicide.
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 10:26 PM
Feb 2016

By all appearances Clinton is going scorched earth. May not be much left of it after the convention.

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
34. Great! Have at it. Nominate an Independent, run as an I
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 11:21 PM
Feb 2016

and all you I's can get behind the candidate and they'll win in a landslide. Right?

Oh, wait.

Independents split right down the middle as conservative Ind and liberal Ind. independents make up 44% of the electorate. That means that Liberal Inds are only 22% of the country. Let's see: Ds are 29% and Rs are 26%. Oops! An Ind running as a liberal would be 7 points behind the D candidate.

So form your party. Build your infrastructure (it ain't cheap). Do your worst, and let Ds nominate Ds.

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
36. Oh, the Ds want you. So do the Rs. They just aren't going to nominate your candidate
Fri Feb 12, 2016, 04:00 PM
Feb 2016

to get your vote.

It really comes down to whether YOU want to cast a vote that means something if your candidate doesn't win the nomination.

Sometimes the nominee puts your candidate on the ticket in the VP slot, just because they want your vote.

stopbush

(24,396 posts)
43. Doesn't mean anything. Only 5% of so-called Indies are actually Independents.
Wed Feb 17, 2016, 05:32 PM
Feb 2016

The rest lean very heavily toward one party or the other. They're basically Independent Ds or Independent Rs.

If the 45% that want BS right now don't have him to vote for in the fall, most will fall in line behind Hillary. It's just the way it goes.

BTW - you stopped a little short on citing data from that chart. You forgot:

Carson: 18.7%
Paul: 12.1%
Cruz: 10.5%
Fiorina: 9.4%

Lots of I's supporting the RW clown car.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
24. My first historical memory is of FDR's funeral. Been voting
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 09:51 PM
Feb 2016

Democratic ever since. But in the 90s the Democratic Party left me. They changed directions and moved off into trickle down politics and globalization that was R ideas.

Like FDR, JFK, LBJ Bernie shares our original values. I support him not because of the letter behind his name - I support him because he and I both want to get back to those old FDR values. We once again want to be a people's party. What Hillary is offering us is more R-lite.

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
30. Gotta stop those dirty hippies from taking over the party!
Thu Feb 11, 2016, 10:14 PM
Feb 2016

The whole super-delegate system is a step back towards what we had in 1968, before the McGovern party reforms.



Samantha

(9,314 posts)
49. K&R
Wed Feb 17, 2016, 09:03 PM
Feb 2016

You might have seen the other three threads on this subject, and I say the more the merrier. I think this information should get wide-spread visibility.

Sam

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