Question: What is Plan B for Bernie Sanders' Campaign?

[FrenchieCat]

Last edited Thu Feb 11, 2016, 10:00 PM - Edit history (1)

Sanders is making grand promises of great programs in every speech he makes,
but his only answer when he is asked HOW will you get anything passed under a
gerrymandered congress, he replies that he will be leading a Revolution.


But thus far the fact is that voting by Democrats was down in both Iowa and NH,
than it was in 2008... The last year that a sitting President wasn't running

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/10/democrats-may-have-an-enthusiasm-problem-in-2016/

2016 total Republican votes 284,127 vs. Democratic votes 250,747 in New Hampshire
http://www.wmur.com/politics/2016-full-new-hampshire-presidential-primary-election-results/37649066

In the New Hampshire Primaries of 2008, the Democratic vote tally was 287,557
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election_in_New_Hampshire,_2008


In 2008, Barack Obama won New Hampshire in the general election with a margin of 9.61 percentage points.
In 2012, Barack Obama won New Hampshire in the general election with a margin of 5.58 percentage points.


So if the Revolution ends up not being televised....

What is Sanders' Plan B to make good on his grand promises?


Please note that there are many Black Folks who understand exactly what the word "Bamboozled" means.....
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118739074

(note) This is not a thread about Hillary Clinton.

Respectfully,
and thank you!

[arcane1]

1. Which PROGRESSIVE policies can Hillary get through congress that Bernie can't? Specifically.

It's funny how Bernie is the only one held to this standard, yet nobody can answer that question when it's applied to Clinton.

I await your answer.

[FrenchieCat]

3. I am asking about Bernie's Plan B

What is Hillary Clinton gonna do or is not going to do is not a Bernie Sanders Plan.

Sanders is the one running on single payer healthcare, free public college, breaking up banks, and overturning Citizens United.
what is his Plan B in getting that done,
as I know that Plan A is a revolution....

[arcane1]

14. We are going to the polls and vote out the 3rd way assholes, for a start.

So, are you going to run away in fear of my question again?

[Helen Borg]

77. Well said.

[arcane1]

85. Thanks. Naturally, they ran away from my question. They all run from that one n/t

[Aerows]

87. It's yet another FUD tactic

disguised as "I really want to talk about the issues without talking about the issues and implying that your candidate is a loser that will lose and even if he wins he will lose" type deal.

Fear! (he won't get anything done!) Uncertainty (It's not like he could ever be elected, but I sure am slamming him because I don't think he can win -at all-) Doubt (what does this guy that everybody in the Democratic party seems to vote for *really* stand for, other than the things he is saying?).

[arcane1]

88. At least they believe in recycling.

[Aerows]

89. I'd say they are pretty green.

and probably with envy, on top of that recycling effort.

[LondonReign2]

46. I've asked that same question at least a dozen times

Nothing but crickets

[arcane1]

51. They haven't distributed that memo yet.

They likely never will. Doesn't fit the narrative.

[LondonReign2]

64. There is no answer that they CAN give

Either they have to admit that Bernie and Hillary can accomplish the exact same things (i.e., nothing while we have a Republican majority) and therefore their argument is feeble bullshit, or they have to admit Hillary will get things done that the Republicans in Congress support (which they would never admit).

[arcane1]

66. Meanwhile, reinstating Glass/Steagall has bipartisan support in congress.

Bernie supports it, Clinton opposes it (for rather dishonest reasons, actually).

So, there is at least one thing we know Bernie could get through congress, that Hillary wouldn't.

[thesquanderer]

83. Here's how it works...

Last edited Thu Feb 11, 2016, 10:02 PM - Edit history (2)

As I posted elsewhere...

1. Passing *any* plan requires a more cooperative congress. I think Bernie's coattails could potetially yield a more amenable congress... if not in 2016, then, if he continues to motivate his base, in 2018, or possibly 2020 and 2022. Hillary's less motivational call for incremental change is less likely to succeed in tilting Congress over her term(s) (or by as much).

2. If you start from a point of saying we should have free tuition for all public college, maybe you get a compromise of free tuition for community colleges. If you start with the latter, and you need to compromise, what do you end up with? There is a benfit to aiming high.

To which I will add, even if these things don't happen over his (hopefully) 2 terms, at least we'll have 8 years of moving the conversation in that direction, something we won't have under Hillary (or at least not to nearly the same extent, because the President won't be leading it). As the cliche goes, every journey begins with a single step. At a minimum, a Sanders presidency is a step towards those lofty goals, and a Hillary presidency is not.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

86. I've said that. She'll prove she can work across the isle by compromising

And by compromising, I mean giving the Rs what they want: an end to welfare as we know it, the end of Glass-Stegal, NAFTA, TPP, the bailout of banksters and Wall Street, disenfranchising black men with crime law (based on all of above, I'm still at a loss as to why blacks are solidly behind Clinton).

That's pretty easy to say.

Bernie, on the other hand, won't do any of that Third Way bullshit.

But this only matters to Progressives. Third Wayers couldn't be happier with more of the same capitulating Democrats.

[bowens43]

2. you think hill would have better luck??

sorry but hillary would get NOTHING done, there is no one republicans and independents hate more then her, of course there isnt a snow balls chance in hell she could twin the GE so that point is moot.....

[FrenchieCat]

4. I am asking about Bernie's Plan B

What is Hillary Clinton gonna do or not gonna do is not a Bernie Sanders' Plan.

Sanders is the one running on single payer healthcare, free public college, breaking up banks, and overturning Citizens United.
what is his Plan B in getting that done,
as I know that Plan A is a revolution....

[liberal_at_heart]

73. So only Bernie has to answer this question huh?

[madokie]

38. From what I hear from Hillary she isn't even going to try

We're going to continue on the same path we're on except we'll have a woman as President. I'd love to see a woman President just not this third way DLC person that is running today. Just changing the gender of our Presidency for a one or two terms right now is not going to solve anything. When I listen to what she has to say about the world as well as us here we're going to have to continue to tighten our belts and the world had better watch out cause this woman has your number. She is a hawk and hasn't seen a war she doesn't like. I'm scared of where we're headed as it is and President Obama is a long way from seeing war as a first recourse to all things Problem. Hillary sounds a lot like the last President who has really screwed up the middle east with his warmongering ways.
Fact is we are going to have to raise Taxes on someone. We can't continue on this path we're currently on. The rich and corporations have been reaping one windfall on tax cuts to the next since Reagan and we need to revisit all these tax cuts. I don't mind paying taxes cause I know thats how we run our government. We have to have an income government wise and the fairest way is a progressive tax system like we had after ww2.

Anyway Bernie Sander will be our next President so I'm not too worried what Hillary is saying or tRump or any of the others nutters on that side of the spectrum.

[FrenchieCat]

41. I'm asking a reasonable question...

Because many voters voting for Bernie Sanders are voting for him
based on what he says he is going to do, not based on him getting elected,
and nothing changing....

So you can spew on about Hillary, DLC, and President Obama....

but none of what you said actually answers the question.

[madokie]

47. Whats not reasonable

is the question you ask. 'ACTUALLY'.

If you'd pull back the blinders and listen to and or read what Bernie is saying you'd see there is not need for a plan B.

Your is not a legitimate question and has no answer FrenchieCat.

I realize that Hillary changes with the weather and you're used to that but Bernie Sanders isn't like that. He has always been the same, same issues, same questions, same answers with him.

Bernie simply doesn't wake up in a different world every morning.

[jwirr]

81. Voting for him on what he says he is going to do --- sorry

he has not told us he is going to do anything alone.

And that is plan B. When we vote for him we are signing on for the long haul. We do not expect him to do it alone. We will work for the ideas he has talked about. We may lose some of them but we will also win some but we are going to work on it together for as long as it takes.

Many of us are already doing the work. I used to donate to the DNC with out much concern about how they used the money. NOW I search out real progressive candidates who are running in the primaries and donate straight to them. (Ex. 5 black progressives in SC - Gilliard, Alexander, Neal, McKnight and Bamberg). We are paying attention to the down ticket nationally at both the local, state and federal level. And we expect this to take more than one election to accomplish. We are taking our party back from the DLC/Third Way dinos.

That is the definition of his revolution. Together we can get things done.

The reason that there is not a plan B for Hillary is that she and the Third Way do not work with the people. Once elected they wheel and deal for what they get and they use the things that the poor need as tradeoffs.

[Maedhros]

5. Plan B is "keep trying."

It beats the Third Way plan of "go along to get along."

[FrenchieCat]

9. So Sanders is running on a Revolution that may not happen,

and his plan B is "keep trying"?

[Bjornsdotter]

45. I like the keep trying attitude

....it what has driven humans to move forward and out of the caves. The keep trying attitude has given us advancements in science. If you don't succeed keep trying.

Now the it's too hard or the we can't do that crowd is still waiting to exit the caves.

[arcane1]

48. If you have a better plan B, I'd love to hear it n/t

[Maedhros]

84. Well, if you'd lay off the polemics for a second and listen to what the man is saying,

you may have a moment of clarity.

The 'revolution' Sanders is referring to is not a package of legislation that he will propose once in office. He has many initiatives planned, yes, but that's his agenda.

The revolution is bigger than Bernie. It's about the American people standing up and taking control of their government back from the corporate interests that currently own it. And it is already happening. Sanders is building a campaign that eschews PAC money and funds itself from the people it represents. The campaign raised $6 million in small donations from individuals in a 24 hour period! He's doing something right.

I fully expect President Sanders to encounter stiff opposition to his proposals, because they benefit us and not the entrenched powers-that-be. They want it all. Will I be disappointed if Sanders doesn't pass all of his legislation? Of course! But I would rather a President try to do the right thing and fail, than sell out and succeed.

[Kall]

6. What's Hillary's Plan A?

Has the email furor made it appear to you that they're eager to help her pass progressive legislation?

[1StrongBlackMan]

11. Save FrenchieCat some typing ...

I am asking about Bernie's Plan B

What is Hillary Clinton gonna do or not gonna do is not a Bernie Sanders' Plan.

Sanders is the one running on single payer healthcare, free public college, breaking up banks, and overturning Citizens United.
what is his Plan B in getting that done,
as I know that Plan A is a revolution....

[bettyellen]

75. Damn- this thread got more Hillary mentions than mine did. Wow.

[Ron Green]

7. Rather than "grand promises," think of them as

"grand ideas," most of them whose time has come and some we've had stolen by the Oligarchy.

More importantly, any and all of these "promises" require active political engagement by lots of citizens, which after all is the real nature of this movement, not the media talking points you're trying to spread.

[FrenchieCat]

12. Bernie Sanders states specifically what he wants to do as President,

He is offering specific plans that would have to pass legislation in order to become law.

What is Bernie Sanders plan B to make good on his specific plans as presented on his website?


PS: Is the media talking about this?...because I haven't heard this...since I don't watch much television,
and have watched absolutely not news network since Sunday.

I'm making a point dealing directly with actual numbers,

so IF the revolution doesn't appear to gathering very much steam currently (of course that may change),
What is Bernie Sanders Plan B?

[jeff47]

34. The error in your thinking is right here.

He is offering specific plans that would have to pass legislation in order to become law.

The error in your thinking is the implicit "within the next 2-4 years" you have attached to this sentence.

We know they will not pass within 2-4 years. They do not have to.

There are a very large mass of disaffected voters out there. The goal is to get them back to the polls, so that we can actually pass the things Sanders talks about. Those disaffected voters will not come back to the polls for "No, we can't".

Instead, we have to talk about what we want to do in the long run, with their help. We have to give them something to vote for. "We're not Republicans!!" is not something to vote for. It's giving voters something to vote against (Republicans).

So "Plan A" is not to pass this legislation in the next 2-4 years. Plan A is to get these voters back and change our country's path. We will still be working on it in 2 years. We will still be working on it in 4 years. We will still be working on it in 6 years. We will still be working on it in 8 years.

How will we be working on it that long? By changing the direction of our party. We do not have to let the Republicans control our party's direction.

[FrenchieCat]

42. So Plan A is not to pass any legislation during 2-4 Years of a Sanders administration.

OK.

[jeff47]

44. No.

But excellent job mischaracterizing that post.

The plan is to change the course of our party and country, much like Reagan did when he was elected, and much like FDR did when he was elected.

So now that you've got an answer for Sanders's plan, what's Clinton's plan?

[arcane1]

50. With this post, you have proven that you aren't honestly looking for an answer.

Credibility = 0.

[Vincardog]

52. Plan A is to propose the required legislation. Plan B is to mobilize the electorite to call write

And email their congress critters to pass the proposed legislation.
Plan C is to lead the revolution to throw the obstructionists out of office and elect representatives who reflect the will of the people.

Great plan no?

[cascadiance]

8. If Hillary won the 2008 primary, and voter turnout is down from then, and she's lost this time...

... by over 20 percentage points, that just points more to how Hillary has lost that much more ground from where she was with voters in 2008.

What is SHE going to do and what is it she's proposing to DO that any group of voters really want in terms of changes in the deeply flawed current state of our country?

At least Bernie speaks strongly as the mover on many issues on things like income inequality that serve as a beacon for voters to get behind. If you watched the View this morning the day after Bernie was on, they had the same criticism of her. That she doesn't really have any focus on any issues that appeal to voters to want to vote for her now, and that her campaign now is "mushy".

I think his winning the first primary won by a non-Christian in his first election in a primary state is a pretty big accomplishment in and of itself. Can't expect the world to happen and Rome to be built in a day, though he's doing damn well in that department.

There are probably many voters crossing over to the Republican primary to try and knock out the more extreme candidates that some who might be on the left hate too. Probably why Kasich got a lot of the votes.

[FrenchieCat]

17. This thread is not about Hillary Clinton.....sorry!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511203281#post3

[cascadiance]

54. That's like asking what the U.S. will do about climate change and saying China doesn't matter...

... when constructing an answer.

When your conjecture about conditions forcing a "plan B" as you pose here, would be the SAME challenge faced by any Democratic president, not just Bernie, then sorry, I'm going to measure a solution on how either will solve the problem.

I would say that Bernie has a better shot at getting more Democrats elected in congress with his coat tails, and therefore have him have less of a problem to have to face "Plan B" than Clinton would. Sorry, but a "controlled" answer the way you want to confine your criticism by only focusing worst case scenario discussion on one candidate is not acceptable in a forum discussing how we get things done, not "how Bernie might fail" the way you want such propaganda threads to work.

And even if there's a plan B, I would trust Bernie's executive actions and what bills he would sign and veto more than I'd trust Hillary. I far more trust him to veto bad trade bills like TPP (hoping that Obama doesn't turn his back on his party constituents to try to ram this through in a lame duck session), etc. than Hillary would, which is also a measure of success even in a "Plan B" scenario that you put forth here.

The way you phrase a "plan B" is like you're saying what will Bernie do with an inevitable "NO WE CAN'T" scenario that you seem to think is inevitable, and perhaps for some on her side who like the influence of big money on government a desirable state of affairs.

[bettyellen]

76. Nope, it is a "what if Bernie wins" thread. Unless he is giving Hillary a big job, she does not

figure into the question at all.

[cascadiance]

80. I think your goal is to paint a scenario where there's a no-win situation where he can't succeed...

... in an effort on your part to say that he can't do what he wants to do as if he's making false promises and can't deliver on something with the implication that Hillary can (though you say that we can't discuss her).

Yes, there a "plan b" scenarios with Republicans controlling things that no one with a progressive viewpoint can win, no matter who they are. Bernie could fall in to that. But that doesn't mean he's not motivated to constantly do the right thing as he promises to do, and delivers on those promises usually and doesn't distort what he actually wants to do just to get elected.

In those scenarios, though he can't accomplish a lot, like just about anyone else couldn't, he can at least stand in the way of bad things happening (as I noted with things like vetoing trade deals, etc.). I of course wouldn't trust Obama with that role of stopping bad legislation, as it looks like he's prepared to sign the TPP if it comes to his desk, no matter how bad it is for the American people. I feel Hillary Clinton, with her pattern of avoiding talking on issues on things like the TPP or guest labor programs like H-1B, wouldn't be that firewall we need.

I think it is important to put that in to context. You can't really have an effective analysis of why he's a good choice for us without putting things in to context. No matter how much his opponents want to limit the discussion.

[bettyellen]

82. actually this reply is pretty awesome, thank you! sometimes you have to take a gamble and trust

that people are really looking for answers- and the context of the question is if Hillary is gone. (because shit gets derailed and diluted with her in the picture, and we all know it will be a struggle for both)

I truly do appreciate your thoughtful answer. Agree 1000% on the HB1 visa and wish to god they could figure out a way to make it go away tomorrow. Can we figure out a way to do that without congress?

[cascadiance]

90. Well, if we have a president to veto TPP and other trade agreements...

At least the executive can stop it from being made worse which could happen with them suing for additional fees in WTO like they are doing now, or suing to have the current quotas removed. So legislation would be best, but at least we can keep things from getting worse with proper executive leadership action.

Thanks also for the nice tone of your response too. It's been hard to find a lot sometimes recently!

[bettyellen]

91. True! Although as Hillary has seen, it is not easy stumping about the horrid shit you won't do!

Thanks again for the dialogue! I think we can do this without rancor.
Hope you are enjoying the debate as much as I am. Sound quality sucks, but they are both doing well.

[DemocraticWing]

10. If the people cannot be heard with a ballot...

[betsuni]

13. This thread is going to be all about Hillary Clinton.... nt

[cali]

15. Another attack tarted up as a faux question.

[artislife]

18. Yup. nt

[FrenchieCat]

20. The question is not an attack....

and the question is not faux.

[artislife]

16. Watch this

Our hope is that Bernie's coattails will have more progressive candidates elected in and maybe cause those who are in congress already to lose the fear of doing something and hop on board. Most of them got started because of a liberal passion and then got assimulated into the Borg.

Patty Murray ran as the mom in tennis shoes. Now she supports the TPP. I am doing my part as someone who always voted for her and paid to get a seat at a luncheon to tell her, she is not an automatic vote from me anymore. She has to earn her way back into my good graces.

As a Latina, I would say this OP is a form of bamboozlement.

[FrenchieCat]

24. The 2010 gerrymandering was done tight as a whistle...

Read on how tightly it was done
http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/10/gerrymandering

[artislife]

26. Then Hillary loses.

Considering her support relies heavily on the minority vote.

Bernie is getting independents and social conservatives along with dems.

[FrenchieCat]

31. Gerrymandering affects House and state races....

but it does not affect the presidential race.

Bernie is NOT producing, thus far, massive turn out.
that is currently a FACT

[artislife]

33. In whose mind is that a FACT?

You have been amusing as some points and eye rolling at others. I cannot believe you on this point.


AT ALL.

But thanks for setting up this game of whack a mole.

Pues, chica.

[FrenchieCat]

43. You don't have to believe Facts....

That's your choice, not mine.

[cascadiance]

61. Tell me the next time that Hillary comes here to Portland in front of a crowd of 28,000+ people!

... in a campaign event before primary season! Even Barack Obama (though he got 75k here in the primaries, only got around 7-8k before the primaries started) and then tell us that she can get anything close to the massive turnout that Bernie has already.

[pinebox]

19. What's Hillary's plan, period?

It's hilarious that Hillary supporters think her entire presidency won't be a giant Benghazi hearing and she will somehow wave a magic wand and the GOP will fall in love with her lol

[jehop61]

21. Sigh FrenchieCat.......

Replies prove your point. Most of us grew out of magical thinking when we were 7 or so

[TheProgressive]

22. You won't have to worry...We real progressives will do the work

We aren't the ones who say "no we can't".

But to answer your silly Clintonian question: Nah, no need....except to
say you at least need a 'fighter' for progressive democratic values who will
use the bully pulpit, rally millions and millions of people, not give in to the republicans
and most importantly, a President Sanders will sign progressive bills and not sign bills harming
the middleclass.

[Joe the Revelator]

23. Bernie recieved 50k more votes than Obama in '08.....so....i don't get this talking point

http://politics.nytimes.com/election-guide/2008/results/states/NH.html

[FrenchieCat]

27. I'm looking at overall votes split between the Democrats and the Republicans

as we should...

since I'm trying to get a feel for the General Election per the turn out in the primaries,
as states are a win all proposition during the REAL electionl,

But thank you for your information.

[jeff47]

37. Except you're also ignoring that there are more registered Republicans in NH

You're also ignoring that independents in NH overwhelm both parties.

You're also not actually listing the Republican numbers from 2008.

You're basically collecting as few pieces of data you can so that you can construct a "sky-is-falling" narrative, based on your faulty characterization of Sanders's plan.

Essentially, you've created a textbook for how to create and then decimate a strawman.

[FrenchieCat]

49. I am listing the results of the General Election in 2008 and 2012.

in both cases, Barack Obama won...

And showing that in 2008, a year that both parties had candidates that weren't a sitting president,
like this year....
Democrats voted in greater numbers during the 2008 primaries,
than they are thus far voting in 2016.

[jeff47]

53. No, you are listing a small subset of the result, and leaving out the ones

that would actually help provide a meaningful comparison.

How many Republicans turned out for the 2008 primary?

How does having only two contenders affect turnout, compared to the 3 we had in 2008?

Heck, what happened to the population of NH in the last 8 years, including changes to the number of registered Democrats, Republicans and independents?

And so on.

You are attempting to draw country-wide meaning from a tiny fraction of the data of one of the smallest and least-representative states in the country.

[Joe the Revelator]

65. Seems like Bernie did his job. Shouldn't Hillary have turned out more folks?

[Gregorian]

25. Same as plan A: democratic economy/political democracy.

Just the stuff the Revolutionary war was fought for.

[FrenchieCat]

28. So there is no plan B....

Is that what you are saying?

[guillaumeb]

29. This question can be asked of both candidates.

The same answer applies. Voters must be energized and informed that voting does not end the electoral process, it is the beginning.

[bvar22]

30. No Plan B is necessary.

What you can't see is that this is not about Bernie.
The Movement existed before Bernie ever entered the race,
and will continue no matter what happens to Bernie.

We are currently focused of electing him,
but win or lose, The Movement will not end.
It will keep growing. The clock is running out on our corrupt politicians and Oligarchs.
Count on it!

[FrenchieCat]

36. I understand your answer....

There is no Plan B to ensure that Bernie Sanders fulfills what he is promising to voters
in reference to passing actual policies based on his Presidencial Campaign platform.

Thank you.

[bvar22]

57. If not this year, then next year.

If not next year, then after the next election.
Unlike Obama, Bernie will certainly use the Bully Pulpit,
and the millions in the Movement to influence policy, and seats in Congress.
Count on it.

[Shandris]

32. Doesn't it suck how, when you're the Establishment, all that 'freeze' stuff stops working for you?

I'll bet that sh*t gets annoying quick. "B-but this used to work, what happened?!"

But to answer your question: Should somehow the citizenry fail to succeed in completely wiping away the Establishment structure by legal methods, then there is still full space to do the incremental bargaining-bin style horsepoo that other unnamed candidates can do. So, IOW...he has Plan A, plus the full Hillary Plan should Plan A somehow fail. As that's double what anyone else has, I think that's enough to assuage anyone's concerns, should they be honest.

[KingCharlemagne]

35. Veto every piece of legislation* sent to him by the fascists, nationalize

the mid-terms and make clear to America what the stakes are for the mid-terms.

*Aside from routine continuing appropriations bills with no poison pills.

[FrenchieCat]

39. That plan does not give us any of the policies he's promising....

only the promise of another election....which is already something we know will happen.

[cascadiance]

56. He's promising he'd work for them, not that he'd deliver them himself...

You actually listen to his messages where he constantly says he needs more than himself getting elected, and that he needs a movement of voters to put in people in congress, etc. to help him deliver what he WANTS to deliver.

Hillary is not clear on what she WANTS to help push through and what she'd stand against once election (TPP?, Keystone?). I don't want her passing bills like that f'd up I-Squared bill that will increase H-1B visas which I'm guessing she'd sign and Bernie wouldn't.

[KingCharlemagne]

70. True. Short of dissolving the Congress (something I would not

put past a Trump or Cruz under other circumstances), I don't think Sanders will get much of his agenda accomplished before 2018-19 at the earliest. But the fascists do not have enough votes to override his vetoes either.

[sheshe2]

40. K&R

[azmom]

55. Plan B is Hillary's plan A

You know, small incremental stuff you Hillary people love so much. So either way, we still win.

[Gothmog]

58. Sorry, Bernie Sanders. There is zero evidence of your ‘political revolution’ yet

No one has seen any evidence of the so-called Sanders revolution https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/10/sorry-bernie-sanders-there-is-zero-evidence-of-your-political-revolution-yet/

Bernie Sanders recorded a resounding victory in New Hampshire's Democratic primary Tuesday. He crushed his rival, Hillary Clinton, with no less than 60 percent of the vote. If Sanders hopes not only to win the election but to achieve his ambitious progressive agenda, though, that might not be enough.

To succeed, Sanders might have to drive Americans who don't normally participate to the polls. Unfortunately for him, groups who usually do not vote did not turn out in unusually large numbers in New Hampshire, according to exit polling data.

https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=1484

...As for Sanders, he credited his victory to turnout. "Because of a huge voter turnout -- and I say huge -- we won," he said in his speech declaring victory, dropping the "h" in "huge." "We harnessed the energy, and the excitement that the Democratic party will need to succeed in November."

In fact, Sanders won by persuading many habitual Democratic primary voters to support him. With 95 percent of precincts reporting their results as of Wednesday morning, just 241,000 ballots had been cast in the Democratic primary, fewer than the 268,000 projected by New Hampshire Secretary of State William Gardner last week. Nearly 289,000 voters cast ballots in the state's Democratic primary in 2008.

To be sure, the general election is still seven months away. Ordinary Americans might be paying little attention to the campaign at this point, and if Sanders wins the nomination, he'll have the help of the Democratic Party apparatus in registering new voters. The political revolution hasn't started, though, at least not yet.

Without this revolution, I am not sure how Sanders proposes to advance his unrealistic agenda

[arely staircase]

59. Get clobbered nationwide. nt

[LondonReign2]

60. In the absence of removing the Republican majorities in Congress, no Democratic

President has any hope of passing even mildly progressive legislation. We've seen that the Republicans in Congress are willing to cut their own noses off before they agree even to legislation that would benefit them.

Bernie admits this. He has said it will take a revolution to make his proposals reality. That is plan A, B, C, and D: start changing the dynamic in this country. He stated time and again that this isn't about him, it is about changing the direction of the country, and that will be impossible until we can kick the Republicans out on their asses.

The disingenuous framing of this "Bernie can't get anything done" mantra, and either the implicit or explicit statement that Hillary can, is that they only thing she can could get done is something the Republicans agree to back her on. That's why when the question is asked, 'What will Hillary get done that Bernie couldn't?" there has been absolutely no answer. The Hillary supporters would either have to admit that their candidate would get nothing more done than Bernie and therefore argument is bullshit, or what she would get done would be with Republican approval, thus they refuse to answer.

The choice is pretty simple: either we can start on the process of turning this country to the left and back to the center, or we can continue on the long rightward slide.

[demosocialist]

62. I am going to try and answer this just MY point of view

You are right it will be extremely hard if not impossible to get any Progressive agenda through a congress that is hell bent on destroying everything (not being Hyperbolic)

First, the question What is Sanders Plan B?

Frankly I don't know, I don't think any politician has a Plan B while running and I don't think it is their job to say they have a Plan B. I don't vote for Plan B's I vote for what that politician proposes in that campaign, I judge that politician by their previous record and honestly many intrinsic valuations that are personal to me and my experiences. In Sanders case I assume or hope he will continue Pres. Obama's Executive Actions and vetoes to stop the Right from destroying this country. I think Sanders and Pres. Obama have a lot in common, I think Pres. Obama in his first campaign was proposing a lot of things that would be really hard to get done and was relying on a ground swell of the electorate to continue to help him. I don't think it happened the way he expected. So Pres. Obama pivoted to deal with the hand he was dealt and did probably as best of a job anyone could. I thank him everyday that he didn't compromise with the extreme right. I presume that Sanders would do the something of the same thing. I personally do not want a Progressive that compromises anymore with the right. Just so it is said I don't hold it against Clinton that she does not seem to have a Plan B... but I don't even know what she for, because it has seemed to have changed a lot more than I am comfortable with.

Now Sanders and Clinton both have their flaws. One of the biggest shared flaws that I see for is issues with PoC. For me it is easier to understand Sanders flaw because it seems we share the same way in judging oppression through traditional economic theory. He has a huge learning curve as do I in understanding white privilege and how former liberal economic theory has devastated non-white communities in this country. I think this is compounded by the fact he has always had an almost all white constituency. I also think we as Bernie supporters haven't recognized that yeah we want him to be President, but damn PoC have a lot more to lose in this election then white people. So I am glad that a lot will hinge on their vote.

I hope that kind of tells you my thinking about this, I'm not looking for vitriol fight, and know this is just my opinion

I tried to keep Clinton out of it as much as I could ;

[Vinca]

63. Bernie is not a miracle worker.

He just gives a shit about regular people and is compelled to try to make things better. He's not running to gin up giant speaking fees for some future date. Why should he have a Plan B? Circumstances are how you find them, not how you wish them to be. Hillary will fare no better in a Republican Congress unless she agrees to sign Republican legislation. Guaranteed. I'm supporting Bernie because he's authentic. He's speaking from the heart. He's not micromanaged by handlers. But he doesn't have a magic wand to wave over all the problems in the country and solve them.

[Odin2005]

67. Use the Bully Pulpit to constantly shame the GOP and incite voter rage against them.

Keep on doing thus until they give in or are voted out.

[DesertRat]

68. k&r

[jeepers]

69. The only thing a populist can do

Turn to the people and his activist base.

Lets imagine that after having a bill calling for medicare for all introduced in the house Sanders takes the bully pulpit and reminds his activist base that he can not do this without them and he asks us to initiate petition drives in each of our states to bring the demand for medicare for all to a vote or that their elected representatives vote for medicare for all when they return to Washington after the midterms.

What if fifteen states could get that on their state ballots as citizen initiative or referenda in the next four to six years? Read your history and you will see that sufferage movement became successful only after the movement focused itself on gaining the vote in the states.

In addition there are a number of state issues voting rights, gerrymandering. paperless voting and birth control to name a few, which should and could be brought up for state referenda ballots that would knock the wind out of the republican /conservative agenda.

[mhatrw]

71. Plan B is to keep fighting the good fight he has fought his entire life.

Last edited Thu Feb 11, 2016, 08:53 PM - Edit history (1)

WTF is your candidate's Plan A, B, or C?

"Americans only know 'the win.' The victory is in the struggle." The late, great Al Lewis

[liberal_at_heart]

72. great post!

[99Forever]

74. Kindly...

... lead, follow, or just get the fuck out of the way.

[mikehiggins]

78. There is no plan "b"

If Sanders gets into office and the Congress remains as intransigent as they are the only thing that can be done is to primary every single one of them.

And before you start, let me assure you that just facing a viable threat of a primary will persuade almost any politician to come around. If Sanders gets into office he will have enough backing to make that work. He'd probably travel around the nation personally to support such a move.

Kick one Congresscritter out of office and they will all come around.

Being in Congress is the best job in the world. Nobody is going to risk it for "principle".

[Gothmog]

79. Bernie Sanders’ “Revolution” Isn’t Good Enough

I am not the only one wondering about the effectiveness of the revolution concept http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/01/bernie_sanders_revolution_isn_t_good_enough.html

To make a more practical analysis, a political revolution might put Sanders into the White House and win the Senate for Democrats, but it doesn’t change the landscape of House districts—where the Republican Party holds a firm advantage—and it doesn’t diminish conservative ideological intensity. In the wake of a Sanders win—as we saw in the wake of Obama’s 2008 victory—conservatives will push back.....

Even with a viable political revolution, a President Sanders would have a hard time persuading or budging a Republican House—still intact because of a powerful partisan advantage, cemented through gerrymandering and geography—that represents radically different, opposing values. The distance between his plans and their priorities is so great that it’s hard to imagine a world where the two sides can be bridged. You could pressure those Republicans through grassroots action, but they weren’t elected by the “political revolution.” Why would they listen?

Indeed, when you take disagreement and political pluralism seriously, it is difficult to even conceptualize the revolution that Sanders describes and touts as the key to success. Does it emerge in America’s conservative bastions? Does it overcome decades of conviction, habit, and organization, the forces that gave John McCain and Sarah Palin nearly 60 million votes in an election almost designed to give a historic victory to the Democratic Party? The truth is that, even under the best scenario for Sanders—a growing economy, huge enthusiasm, and a weak opponent—it’s hard to imagine a world where he beats Obama’s total from 2008. Unless the revolution is truly that—a movement that overcomes partisan barriers—it, at most, leaves liberals where they were at the beginning of 2013.

President-elect Sanders would enter the White House with gridlock ahead of him. And if the conservatism and moderation of places like Virginia and Missouri are any indication, then he would also face a split in the Democratic Party, among lawmakers who backed him and his socialist label, and those who ran from it. His campaign promises to challenge the establishment. Would these moderate and conservative Democrats challenge the establishment too? If they don’t, would Sanders challenge them?

[workinclasszero]

92. There is no plan B and plan A is strictly a fantasy

Tell people what they want to hear, it requires no actual plan. Just believers.

If Bernie somehow wins the nomination and then the presidency I will follow our great leaders example and call for him to be primaried after his failed first term.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

93. LOL

Sanders is still introducing his ideas to new people and that is the thing to do now.