Help please! How does Sander plan to raise taxes with the congress we have?

[bettyellen]

Basically, everything he promises hinges on raising taxes on the wealthiest. Obama tried that and failed.
We know from past experience he has buckled under threat of a government shut down- why would this be different from Obama's attempts to raise taxes on the wealthy?

Will it take 8-16 years , with heavy Dem gains every two years to achieve this? That is literally the only way I can think of right now- but if I am missing something, please let me know.

What is the specific role of these "millions of engaged people" he hopes to utilize? I am trying to picture how a huge cultural and behavioral shift

Please note, this question is about methodology, not ideals- not about "trying" but about the how of doing it. Not about Hillary.

[napi21]

1. HE CAN'T, but NEITHER CAN HILLARY!

Both candidates have asked the American voters to give them a "friendly congress" in order to get their plans accomplished.. THEY NEED TO REPEATE THAT MESSAGE AT EVERY OPPORTUNTY.

[bettyellen]

3. Good point- wish both would talk about plans for a rout in congress!

I heard Bernie is backing a slate of progressive candidates, but have not seen any details. I imagined it was for this elections cycle, but do not imagine it will have enough impact to change the game just yet.

[boston bean]

5. I have been donating to the Hillary Victory Fund which funds races for dems.

[virtualobserver]

26. unless you have given more than $5400, you are just giving to Hillary

[bettyellen]

40. I usually do some last minute phone banking if I can find an interesting squeaker

race out of state. My local area is full of thugs, I just can't be around them anymore.

[Snotcicles]

56. You do it by leading the mass movement you have built.

That movement has millions of eyes and ears and is growing everyday. With that amount of support from the voters it will make it very difficult to resists their demands, especially when they see their political ambitions are at risk.

[bettyellen]

59. so, specifically what and when, do you envision?

[Snotcicles]

69. I'm light on the specifics, but it would look a lot like the 2008 movement but it would be

utilized to a much greater degree after the election. Rather than being squelched like it was by the Obama administration.

[bettyellen]

70. I'm wondering if he would have to create a field of candidates without the DSCC?

And how many. I appreciate your response, Snots. May I call you Snots?

[Snotcicles]

75. Candidates tend to be fluid creatures, especially when they see a massive move in a certain.. Edited

Last edited Thu Feb 11, 2016, 09:27 PM - Edit history (1)

political direction. So the field of candidates you speak of will more than likely emerge on it's own.
I would fully expect to see competition among them for the prized positions that are most influential and self rewarding.
Yes you may call me Snots, bettyellen. I presume.

[bettyellen]

82. Betty is fine, thanks! I think spellcheck gave you a curtain, which I pictured sweeping across our

great nation rendering all voters wise and kind in it's wake! Very interesting theory on a slate emerging. I do appreciate your input!

[Snotcicles]

87. Thank you correction made. nt

[bettyellen]

89. Of course! Great debate- no? I am happy!

[Snotcicles]

92. Yes good one, I think they are getting redundant now. I just think they will keep devolving,

to the point of revulsion. For me anyway. But I have had my mind made up for a long time.
Sorry, I clocked out of DU before you posted last night. I hope you are having a good Friday.

[bettyellen]

94. I am hoping they both put to rest some BS memes and will move on. I like that for the

most part they acknowledge their platforms are very very similar. I know we find the devil in the details here, but it is nice to see a lot of alignment in goals. I think they are being reasonably restrained and I am proud of them both for it.
Have a great weekend, Snots!

[Hortensis]

72. Hopefully, wrong. Hillary's reassuring coattails may well

help us gain control of, even a majority, in the Senate, many more seats in the House, a couple more governorships than otherwise, and hundreds of state offices, including judgeships. Some from the far left here hate her, and many strong and extreme conservatives hate her, but by far most Democrats and many independents like and respect her. And we'll find out later how many mainstream conservatives may turn to her for lack of a viable GOPcandidate,

[berningman]

2. What exactly did Obama try?

Maybe I'm mis-remembering but all Obama had to do was veto any bill from Congress and let the bush tax cuts expire. Maybe Bernie can do that.

[Hekate]

76. Sorry about your amnesia. I'll bet Obamacare has a treatment for that.

[berningman]

88. oh hey look snark.

so Obama didnt sign an extention of dumbers tax cuts? and a veto wouldnt have at least forced another vote to override? im afraid even obamacare aint gonna fix that kinda willful ignorance.

[Lisa D]

95. Jury results

On Fri Feb 12, 2016, 02:12 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Sorry about your amnesia. I'll bet Obamacare has a treatment for that.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1205138

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Mild, but a personal attack nonetheless.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Feb 12, 2016, 02:19 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: A true statement of concern with appropriately helpful advice for seeking treatment. Amnesia isn't really a personal attack. I heard a great description of it but, well, now I can't remember it.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: way too mild to hide in this contentious climate. fight it out!
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Really?
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Of course it's too mild to be taken up with any sort of hide. But it didn't stop you from alerting, on the off chance the jury is loaded up with Bernie supporters who would hide a Hillary supporter. Grow up and start alerting the real, over the top insults instead.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Hekate]

99. Thank you, Jurors 2 thru 7.

Is this a great country, or what?

[bravenak]

96. Lol

[Thinkingabout]

4. K & R, getting Congress back to a heavy Democratic majority is the

Pathway of getting progressive ideas enacted. We have to vote everytime there are congressional members up for election. The Republicans vote, the downfall is on the Democratic side. Democratic president and a Democratic Congress.

[bettyellen]

7. I said the same to a newly politically active friend, and she gets it. But she was very

disappointed with my estimated timeline. And perhaps I am too much of a pessimist, so I am asking here if there is a quicker path.

[Thinkingabout]

11. Some have two years, some have six years, it has to shake up in the House.

They are thinking perhaps getting the Senate back this year bit we need 60 democrats to insure passages of bills in the Senate. It will probably take a few election cycles.

[bettyellen]

90. And she it hard- no matter who is elected in November. A new congress needs to happen.

[napi21]

66. I think it depends a lot of just how deep the dislike of "the establishment" is.

The only race we're hearing a lot about right now is Presidential, very little about house & senate ones. IF people's hatred descends to their Reps & Sens (which I think it does), they 2016 could be THE TIME! The reason I believe in this theory is because of the ratings this congress has had for a LONG TIME.

[RobertEarl]

6. 2 years

We give Bernie 2 years in office and then we give him a Bernieful congress!

[bettyellen]

8. We will still be outnumbered in congress, no?

Would we be planning a full slate of new and much more progressive candidates all across the country?
Is that the part the "millions" need to play?

[jeff47]

15. Maybe, maybe not.

Depends on how fast demographic changes travel, and much more importantly, it depends on what the President is saying he wants to do with that Congress.

"I won't change much" will not change Congress much.

[bettyellen]

16. has ANYONE claimed the house could flip soon? we are talking steps needed-

not inspirational stuff.

[jeff47]

20. The steps needed include inspirational stuff.

Turnout is shitty because we don't give voters something to vote for. We give them "vote against Republicans, we'll only enact some of their policies!".

That "inspirational stuff" is how you get disaffected and young voters to actually show up.

How fast will it work? Don't know. It's not easy to predict the next midterms when we haven't even had this election yet.

But have you paid any attention to how our past strategy of being "realistic" has lost us more seats than ever before?

[bettyellen]

21. No idea on the best case/ likely case timeline? My friends came up with 8-12 last weekend,

which sounded reasonable. One person thought colleges would just become free in 2017, and that sparked the discussion.

[jeff47]

22. In a "everything works fantastically" scenario, it could be as short as two

But that is very unlikely.

My personal guess is 4-8....but it won't be a liberal enough Congress to pass the hardest-to-pass parts. That'll take more like 8-12.

[bettyellen]

23. Okay- the 8-12 was for the bulk of his agenda. Thank you. I feel better about the conversation

I had this weekend. I find myself prefacing everything with "I know this does not sound sexy, but realistically..." Not a "fun" role, but I feel you got to be upfront about it. Our nation is massively fucked up, and we forget it sometimes in our blue oasis over here.

[jeff47]

25. Just remember, the vast majority of Reagan's "revolution" couldn't pass until 1994.

The ship of state is slow to turn. It took Gingrich to finish Reagan's plan.

[bettyellen]

33. Yes! I was actually doing just those calculations. There is a lot to undo.

[Databuser]

39. The Basis of 'POLITICAL REVOLUTION'.

In my opinion, it goes like this: Bernie's voters will

1. Run thousands of Progressives in the 2018 elections - Fed, State, Local.

2. Show up, Vote them In.

3. Shift the balance of power to Bernie-style Democrats, distinct and not associated with the DNC, Dinos, or Wall Street Owners.....

and 4. Begin writing Law to begin implementing Bernie's policies

[Attorney in Texas]

9. He doesn't plan to have the same Congress we currently have. Just like FDR and JFK/LBJ did,

Sanders is campaigning on a platform that is bigger than one person -- his campaign is a movement to empower the majority of the voters to elect a Congress who will support the sort of progressive goals that a majority of the voters -- EVEN A MAJORITY OF REPUBLICANS -- favor.

FDR's Congress didn't want to pass the New Deal, and the 1960s Congress did not want to pass (and didn't pass) JFK's New Frontier until LBJ rammed it through a reluctant Congress as the Great Society. Reagan's Congress didn't want to pass his (bullshit) domestic agenda, either.

Sanders plans to do what FDR, JFK-LBJ (and the flip side of that coin, Reagan) did. He will push his platform to show the voters that the need to support a Congress that will not stand against the voters' wishes.

[bettyellen]

12. So considering the state of gerrymandering we have- is my timeline unfair? Can we possibly

get money out of politics in less than two years so those elections will mean something?
I heard something like 8-10 to undo the gerrymandering advantage.

[Attorney in Texas]

13. If you assume we can only accomplish what a Paul Ryan led Congress allows (as Clinton does) we can't

accomplish Clinton's proposed platform, either.

FDR, JFK/LBJ, and Reagan didn't start out with the "we've already lost" view that Clinton has adopted.

[bettyellen]

14. Timeline? Just want to stay OT please. Thanks!

[Control-Z]

10. All I can think of is another occupy.

I've wondered and wondered about the same things as you.

Is he telling college students that he'll expect them to stop whatever they're doing to join the revolution? Or will it all take place on the internet? Do any of them plan to continue in politics after the election? How many have even basic knowledge of how our government works? Or how many will vote and then sit back and wait for their free tuition?

I don't think these kids have a clue. And that's the saddest part of all. They are getting a very distorted view of American government. There will be a lot of disappointment going around if somehow Sanders wins.

[bettyellen]

68. In a sense yeah- he would need that sort of movement outside the govt to groom candidates

for the takeover. I'm wondering what the biggest potential rout of congress actually is.

[Beacool]

17. Me, teacher, me, pretty please?

Sanders repeated his strategy again on the Colbert show last night. When Colbert asked him how did he intend to pass his agenda through Congress, Sanders gave his standard answer. He expects millions of people to uprise and start a political revolution. Colbert quoted John Kennedy and asked whether the revolution could become violent. Sanders responded that he hoped not.

We live in interesting times......

[bettyellen]

37. Does "uprise" mean run for congress or work in a campaign? I think finding and supporting a

slate of progressive candidates will take millions of people at least ...8 years?
I'd love to hear what executive actions could be taken, there would need to be some good ones, to keep people from losing interest.

[Beacool]

41. And in those 8 years, what will the president do?

Can we all say gridlock?

[bettyellen]

42. Yeah, I know- that is why I am curious about what executive actions could be taken?

I wish we could impeach Scalia and somehow get that perv Thomas to resign.

[Hekate]

79. He "hopes not"?!

Shit, I am sorry I missed that.

[Vinca]

18. Hillary or Bernie will be SOL when it comes to getting anything done with this Congress.

One exception, of course. If Hillary is elected and does what Bill did - signed legislation crafted by Republicans - she'll get something done, although it's unlikely to be anything we want done. Nothing will be accomplished until Congress changes and that won't happen until the next census and it still won't happen unless Democrats are in charge of state governments and can redraw the gerrymandered districts. We have a totally dysfunctional government for the near future no matter which Democrat wins the election. If a Republican wins, it's still dysfunctional but we're totally screwed.

[bettyellen]

29. I think that leaves us 2021-22 before gerrymandering is adjusted to any extent.

I think that was my guess this weekend, and why I was saying there would be very little accomplished Sanders first term.
I wonder specifically what Sanders thinks he can accomplish alone- aka/ his first term? That would be interesting.

[Vinca]

91. He'd probably have to use executive orders like Obama has been doing for the past year or so.

Unless you agree with the Republicans (which means you're crazy) they won't bring things up for a vote in the House and will filibuster them in the Senate. It would happen to any Democratic president.

[bettyellen]

93. Yeah, there is the rub. Tks for the civil response.

[arely staircase]

19. The alert button.

[bettyellen]

24. Not again, dammit! This is an honest question!!

[arely staircase]

28. They will just magically make congress disappear because

you know, Bernie.

[bettyellen]

34. well, some are working on making me disappear, so maybe I'm a practice run?

HA!

[arely staircase]

38. Oh yeah. They love'em some censorship.

Hang in there. SC is right around the corner.

[bettyellen]

44. I am hanging best I can, Arely!

[upaloopa]

27. All the young voters are going to stand outside the

Capital building and demand things.

I think I heard that in a recent debate.

Congress critters are going to look out their windows and the revolution will be staring back at them.

[LondonReign2]

31. No We Can't!

[upaloopa]

45. I never got that message from Hillary

Who ever is the next President will face the same obstacles.

I think while waiting for the revolution to shape up Bernie will work to build on President Obama's work. Like the ACA for example. Bernie will work to improve it as would Hillary.

Single payer will take many years to pass. I doubt Bernie will sit on his hands waiting for the right time.

[bettyellen]

46. Put down the snowball, London! We all want much of the same things here.

I think it is crucial- as Bernie said the other day- that we end up on the same side this November.

[LondonReign2]

30. No Democratic President can pass progressive legislation with this Republican Congress

Bernie is aware of this and admits as much.

It will be a long process. But, either we start the process of turning this country to the left and back to the middle or we continue our long rightward slide.

[bettyellen]

36. No plan of steps, estimate on time frame? Do you think 10-12 years is fair?

[Andy823]

55. I agree 8-12 years

That's only if Democrats actually get out in large numbers to vote every two years. The problem may be that if nothing gets done in the first 2 years, people will get upset and not turn out to vote after that. If the voters don't turn out, then it could take a lot longer, if at all.

[bettyellen]

63. I did emphasize that the Dem vote must be there big time every election. Any setback to Republicans

will make a huge difference. The RW influence has been too strong, even during the Clinton and Obama years. It has cause a lot of set backs.

[LondonReign2]

97. I can't predict one year out much less 10

It's been a 35+ year journey since Reagan began the rightward march. I don't know how long it will take to get back to equilibrium, but we need to start.

[bettyellen]

98. I am guessing we need to look at it as a long game. There's no quick fix.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

[Odin2005]

32. Hillary will not get anything progressive though a GOP congress either.

I'm so fucking sick of this talking point.

[bettyellen]

35. And I'm sick of having my questions ignored! OT and out.

[JimDandy]

62. The sentiment is mutual

I am sick of having my question to Hillary supporters ignored, too: What are Hillary's specific acomplishments that were geared toward helping Blacks? Just a simple list will do.

[bettyellen]

64. I have seen that answered hundreds of times here. But not here because it is OT.....

so you are barking up the wrong tree this evening! This tree belongs to people who can break down Bernie;s vision into actionable steps. Can you?

[BlueStateLib]

43. HRC is not promising the moon like SBS

[Odin2005]

50. The only things she will be able to get though a GOP Congress is regressive shit that hurts the 99%.

Nothing progressive will get passed, no matter who is president. So what Hillary REALLY means is that she will give us Republican-lite BULLSHIT.

[bettyellen]

60. OT, this thread is about enacting Bernie's plan- not squabbling over Hillary- thank you!

[Odin2005]

65. The whole premise of your thread is bullshit.

So I don't care about what you think is on or off topic.

[bettyellen]

67. The premise of how Bernie will enact his plans is bullshit? Not among people I know.....

Not sure why you decided to post here then. Classy.

[bettyellen]

61. OT, this thread is about enacting Bernie's plan- not squabbling over Hillary- thank you! Any

estimated time frames? I think we are at an average of 10 years now.

[wyldwolf]

47. Like this, of course

[bettyellen]

48. hey, I know you are good at this stuff- help us figure out the timeline!

[wyldwolf]

52. ok, serious but short answer.

There is very little chance the house flips anytime soon.

Bernie would either be a do-nothing President that gives thrilling and rousing speeches (which would apparently be fine for many) or he'd have to compromise (eew! evil word!)

There's a reason President Obama has essentially endorsed Hillary:

"Clinton and Sanders have sparred in Democratic debates over who is the true ‘progressive,’ with Clinton arguing that progressivism is about results, and Sanders arguing that it’s about principle. Obama, who appointed Clinton his first secretary of state after defeating her in the 2008 Democratic primary, seemed on Wednesday to clearly fall on the Clinton side of the ideological divide. He said that labels, such as ‘not a real progressive’ — which Sanders has used against Clinton — are damaging to the national discourse.”

Said Obama: “So when I hear voices in either party boast of their refusal to compromise as an accomplishment in and of itself, I’m not impressed. All that does is prevent what most Americans would consider actual accomplishments, like fixing roads, educating kids, passing budgets, cleaning our environment, making our streets safe … It cuts both ways, guys.”

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/obama-clinton-speech_us_56bb9af7e4b08ffac123b6bc

[bettyellen]

53. So 10-12 years? LOL! Thanks for the thoughtful reply. That speech was incredible....

both candidates would do well to emulate Obama.

[wyldwolf]

54. At least.

[bettyellen]

57. But this OP and this thread are about the how and when. Do you think it is helpful to

tell people their questions about process do not matter?

[JustAnotherGen]

58. Good question kick and rec

[Yurovsky]

71. 2 things come into play...

1. Coattails. If Bernie can bring out enough energized voters, the House or Senate or both could flip. Don't say it can't happen, because after 1994 I'll never say never in terms of Congressional politics.

2. As much as I despise the man, Reagan got almost all of what he wanted with the opposition party controlling the House for his entire presidency, and the Senate flip-flopping, IIRC. He had broad support, and many in the opposition were afraid to cross him if they were in a competitive district. I realize a lot has changed since then, but if Bernie wins big, there will be pressure on congress to do something. If Congress doesn't flip in 2016, it might in 2018.

As for Hillary, I'm sure she and the GOP will get along just fine when it comes to protecting Wall Street & the super rich. There will be conflict on reproductive rights, and perhaps some other cultural & human rights issues. But the status quo of the American economy will be maintained. Goldman Sachs loves Hillary. They are scared to death of Bernie.

[bettyellen]

73. But gerrymandering screws us till 2020 doesn't it? Wish I ad better info on that....

Anyway, thanks very much for the first two paragraphs outing your thoughts. Your forgiven for ignoring my request to stay on topic with the third, LOL.

[Hekate]

74. That is an excellent question, bettyellen. Here is the answer....

Magic.

The magic wand that Obama was supposed to have (and never did) to fulfill all the promises he was said to have made (and never did) was snatched away and given to Senator Sanders. For real this time -- because unlike Obama, Sanders is actually promising the Moon and Stars.

Just you wait. It's going to be wonderful.

[bettyellen]

77. so I should put you down for 12-14 years if we have Dem landslides every year for 12?

Or is this a "never gonna happen"?

Thanks for your reply!

[Ed Suspicious]

78. I hope people stop trying to answer this bullshit. It's been covered about a half a million times

and yet you still stick your fingers in your ears hoping to not understand.




Trajectory is the only word I will give you

[bettyellen]

83. You object to a discussion of how to enact Bernie's plan because it is a known thing? LINK?

I didn't know that- please educate us!

[workinclasszero]

80. Here is Bernies plan...

Revolution.

Yeah and he wants to sell you the Brooklyn Bridge also.

[onecaliberal]

81. We aren't going to have this congress... Alot of them are up for re-election and if the current

results hold with all of the new voters, even the gerrymandering isn't going to help some of them. Some states have had the courts step in and are making them redraw the maps. The point is, we're never going to do anything if we never try that is certain. I am done sitting around waiting for someone to help. We are the ones we've been waiting for Bernie is our last chance, if we don't support, we are fucked, period.

[bettyellen]

84. It felt really good to imagine the possibility of taking back congress! I'd like to learn more

about what we can do in the meantime - 6-10 years?- to keep the enthusiasm going!
Any word on executive actions or other actions that can be taken before congress goes Dem again?

[onecaliberal]

85. Just keep plugging away on the lawsuits with the maps.

It has taken time, but several of them have come out unconstitutional.

[bettyellen]

86. I think they are planning on more after the next census? Need to get more info on that.

In the meantime- thank you for taking the time to weigh in.