2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumJohn Lewis on Bernie Sanders' work in the civil rights movement: "I never saw him. I never met him."
Darren Sands ?@darrensands 1h1 hour agoRep. John Lewis on @BernieSanders work in the civil rights movement: "I never saw him. I never met him."
Darren Sands ?@darrensands 1h1 hour ago
As John Lewis said he never met or saw Bernie Sanders during his time in the civil rights movement, people in this room GASPED.
from Buzzfeed:
A reporter, noting Sanders involvement with the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee in the 1960s, asked Lewis, about Sanders record in the civil rights movement.
Sanders has made his history as a participant in the March on Washington and as a student organizer in SNCC a part of his campaign.
Well, to be very frank, I dont want to cut you off, but I know where its going, Lewis said.
As Lewis began to lean into his answer, the room tensed, and someone let out an uh oh.
I never saw him. I never met him, Lewis continued. I was chair of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee for 3 years, from 1963 to 1966. I was involved with the sit-ins, the Freedom Rides, the March on Washington, the march from Selma to Montgomery and directed to voter education project for six years. But I met Hillary Clinton. I met President Clinton.
Lewis comments drew applause from some members of the audience.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)if we continue on this same trajectory....
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)her best. So was Bernie.
TheBlackAdder
(28,208 posts).
.
Duval
(4,280 posts)OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)want to talk about that? If John Lewis was there, he had to see Bernie's white face. I see Barbara Lee, John Conyers, Sheila Jackson Lee, what looks like the side of Jesse Jackson's head . . . and Bernie!
TheBlackAdder
(28,208 posts)HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Are the contributions of the foot-soldiers any less honorable than the leaders?
boston bean
(36,221 posts)I think the back lash you will see is because Bernie has allowed his supporters to berniesplain race and what is best for black people to black people, by not putting his own contribution into perspective.
HerbChestnut
(3,649 posts)This forum is just getting depressing.
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)So he is basically saying Bernie made it up. Mr. Lewis, I hope those donations you got from Hillary's big corporate Donors was worth your credibility!
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)depressing major turnoffs fingers in ears sort of thing pretty bad day for John Lewis too. , that he can be used
Gore1FL
(21,132 posts)Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)Akamai
(1,779 posts)Of course maybe others should "shrillsplain" too! Stoopid to be get involved in such obvious and trivial attacks.
Gore1FL
(21,132 posts)The opposite of Clinton speak.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)Then you can't claim a response is 'Berniesplaining'. And in any case, making an argument for candidate A is no different than making an argument for candidate B. You are simply demanding one side be silenced. Doesn't work that way.
MattSh
(3,714 posts)John Poet
(2,510 posts)but that is usually done by email.
Or about email.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)who was freedom rider in Mississippi. He didn't meet her either but she was a rural kid who went to do good just like Bernie. I'm sorry he can't appreciate that. Very disappointing because I love this man.
Bernblu
(441 posts)who wanted to end Civil Rights in the South.
John Lewis could have said something like "I commend Senator Sanders for the work he did in the Civil Rights movement but I am supporting Clinton for President."
The fact that he handled it the way he did is very disappointing.
boston bean
(36,221 posts)be disappointing.
Doesn't mean he doesn't get to say how feels. That should be respected.
Dawgs
(14,755 posts)Calling Bernie a liar and doing it in such a sleazy way is really beneath him. I was very disappointed by it.
Orrex
(63,215 posts)Did he go out of his way to meet and remember every person who might someday figure on the national stage?
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Orrex
(63,215 posts)I have many clear memories of meeting people 20+ years ago if we're still friends, but I have trouble recalling people who happened to be a in a crowd with me around that same time.
oasis
(49,389 posts)to reaquaint himself with Lewis and catch up on old times, assuming there was old times.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)I take it he never met her then.
valerief
(53,235 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)http://www.biography.com/people/bernie-sanders
Gee, in 1966 he wasn't a politician and wasn't already planning on running for president. (heh... that one amused me)
He was just another white supporter in the crowd for civil rights, focusing on the goal.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)long before anyone 'knew' who he was. Lewis does a real disservice to African Americans, who don't have what he has, from the government dole.
blm
(113,065 posts)This is a nonissue, imo. I've been an activist for decades, yet, I'm pretty sure unless I do something to draw major attention to myself, or run for office, I will remain unmemorable. And that is OK with me.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)valerief
(53,235 posts)Oh, forget it. I've had enough bait for now. Welcome to Forever Ignored.
Tarc
(10,476 posts)I said "neither were the Clintons"
That is a pretty simple A-to-B to follow....
Response to Tarc (Reply #198)
Tarc This message was self-deleted by its author.
SheenaR
(2,052 posts)The pictures, stories and arrest report must all be fabrications.
I would call this an artful smear. I mean he didn't meet him.. Don't infer he never was involved though. That's some bullshit move right there.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)SheenaR
(2,052 posts)The attacks are going to come continuously
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)disillusioned73
(2,872 posts)But it is only the beginning, expect a lot more honorable folks sullying their name..
I shouldn't but I do. I guess it's disconcerting because people like Lewis, Steinem, Albright all have clout. Especially someone like Lewis (who has a really good history) infers things like this (that Bernie wasn't there and is lying), then it's upsetting that people who may not know Bernie, or who are still trying to make up their minds, will see this and think "well, if Lewis says that Bernie wasn't there, then I'm not going to vote for a LIAR!".
They are the ones who are distorting the truth. Trying to make Bernie look bad because they are running out of positives on their own side. It reminds me of when Hillary was asked if she thought that Obama was a Muslim and she said "not as far as I know". Same tactics and low blows.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)No surprise at all the Clinton campaign is adopting this RW Rovian tactic...they've adopted all the others. The difference is, we all knew the attack on Kerry was utter bullshit...however this time some people can't recognize the bullshit because it reinforces their already held ideology.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Perhaps you need to go back and refresh your knowledge of what swift boating actually is.
smiley
(1,432 posts)and somehow I think you already know that.
dchill
(38,503 posts)Just an inartful smear. This is already too ugly to ever redeem.
angrychair
(8,700 posts)Ratfucking?
The clear implication, "I didn't see him but I saw Hillary Clinton, I saw Bill Clinton" is that Sanders is lying.
Sanders was involved with the movement and that is indisputable. There is photographic, third-party verification he was involved.
FYI, Interesting that he would say "I saw Hillary Clinton...Bill Clinton" considering she didn't graduate high school until 1965 and in her senior year of high school she was a Republican and a 'Goldwater Girl'. She didn't even know Bill Clinton in 1963. While Bill was in Washington DC at Dr. King's 'I Have A Dream' speech. Bill was a high school kid at the time so I doubt Lewis "saw" him either.
casperthegm
(643 posts)C'mon Clinton supporters, this is what you've got? You can't compete on the issues, so we now go back to some guy in the 1960's who doesn't recall Bernie? Did you guys think about the pictures, his arrest, any of the actual evidence that immediately invalidates this attempted smear?
Punkingal
(9,522 posts)(Ready for the under the bus brigade.)
m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)Punkingal
(9,522 posts)Volaris
(10,272 posts)As I thought, SC is where the big knives will get taken out. This is just beginning; be prepared. If we're still alive on super tuesday, the nomination is ours.
oh08dem
(339 posts)but I never met a dinosaur either, that doesn't mean it didn't exist. It's clear that Bernie WAS there, and was participating; why is the burden of proof set so high when it comes to Bernie and the civil rights movement?
artislife
(9,497 posts)and we know that he is not a spotlight seeking personality. He gets in the spotlight because it is a tool to a different goal. It is an issue goal and not a personal one.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Perhaps if hed acted more like a Clinton and less like the mensch that he is, Lewis would remember him.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)And he and Bill and Hillary have been friends ever since.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=58380
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)The Clintons have never lifted a finger for anything that didn't feather their own nests.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Fund, and accomplished more than she would have if she'd only participated in some marches.
With a law degree from Yale, she could have gotten a job with a top law firm but she chose to use her talents to help children and fight poverty.
Marion Edelman did the voice-over for Hillary's campaign video. She still appreciates Hillary's work there.
nichomachus
(12,754 posts)All politicians with political aspirations do high-profile things like this in the hopes that, at some future time, someone will cite this job as a "qualification" for election.
For your edification:
How Hillary Betrayed the Children's Defense Fund
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)Divernan
(15,480 posts)No lawyer (someone with a law degree) can get a job/ practice law with any kind of law firm, top or bottom, without having passed a bar exam, and obtained a law license in the state (or District of Columbia) in which the law firm operates. Hillary failed the D.C. Bar, and the various jobs she worked at between law school graduation and heading down to Arkansas were research/writing/monitoring hearings type jobs, and not jobs which required a licensed attorney. In other words, she could not possibly have gone into a court of law and represented anyone for the Childrens Defense Fund. That would be practicing law without a license. So her role at the Children's Defense Fund would have been a subsidiary one - akin to a paralegal.
It's hard to pin down the exact dates on what she did after graduating from Yale law and heading down to Arkansas where she then got an Arkansas license. And not being licensed in any other jurisdiction (and eligible for reciprocity), she would have to be a resident of Arkansas to get a license there. Apparently in late '74, she decided to leave D.C. and head down to Arkansas & Bill. She kept her bar failure a secret for decades. A number of law grads fail bar exams every year and have to take them a second or even a third time. My first supervising attorney/senior partner had to take the bar 3 times. Ended up as an extremely successful trial lawyer and president of the trial lawyers' association. But he had to have the self confidence to acknowledge he had failed and had to take the exam over again. Hillary has demonstrated a lifelong inability to admit error or failure.
Here's the time line. She graduated from Yale Law in spring of '72; took both D.C. and Arkansas bar exams that summer. To be with Bill while he finished his last year of law school, Hillary signed up for a year of observing and working with children at the Yale Child Study Center (which did not require bar membership/law license). Bill graduated in late spring of '73 and headed back to Arkansas, sans Hillary. "After graduating from Yale Law School, Clinton returned to Arkansas and became a law professor at the University of Arkansas." (Wikipedia) At age 27, she took a job working for the House Judiciary Committee on the Watergate investigation, no later than spring of '74. At this point, not having yet moved to Arkansas, and never having passed the D.C. bar, she was not a licensed attorney. I could only find a reference to her working part time for Edelman while she studied for the bar (the summer after law school graduation) and perhaps while waiting for the bar exam results. She apparently returned to New Haven in the fall of '72 to work at the Yale Child Study Center (not a job requiring a law degree, let alone a law license)
Bekavac said she was shocked to hear that, a year later, Hillary had moved to sleepy Arkansas. We could barely imagine her being there, Bekavac said. Others were similarly surprised to learn that Hillary had taken up with a corporate law firm for most of those who knew her best at Yale saw her destined for a high-profile job in the public interest.
http://www.hillaryclintonquarterly.com/hillary-clinton-at-yale-law-school/
And yes Clinton hater Dick Morris was the one who pointed this out, but Pulitzer Prize winning Politifact's "Truth-O-Meter" determined it was true.
She failed, then followed Bill
By Robert Farley on Friday, February 15th, 2008 at 12:00 a.m.
In an article for a conservative Internet journal that has been widely distributed via chain e-mail, former Clinton adviser-turned-foe Dick Morris points out a little-known embarrassment about Sen. Hillary Clinton, who was a star law student at Yale.
"She flunked the D.C. bar exam and only passed the Arkansas bar," he wrote. In his biography of Hillary Clinton, former Watergate reporter Carl Bernstein notes that in the summer of 1973, 817 people took the Washington, D.C., bar exam; 551 of them passed. Hillary Rodham was not one of them.
"For the first time in her life she had flamed out spectacularly, given the expectations of others for her, and even more so her own," Bernstein wrote.
It's true.
In his biography of Hillary Clinton, former Watergate reporter Carl Bernstein notes that in the summer of 1973, 817 people took the Washington, D.C., bar exam; 551 of them passed. Hillary Rodham was not one of them.
"For the first time in her life she had flamed out spectacularly, given the expectations of others for her, and even more so her own," Bernstein wrote.
Bernstein said Clinton kept the news hidden for 30 years and shocked some of her closest friends when she made the revelation with a passing reference in her 2003 autobiography, Living History.
So she followed Bill Clinton to Arkansas. She became a faculty member in the School of Law at the University of Arkansas, where Bill Clinton also taught. And in 1975, the two married.
Wrote Bernstein: "There can only be conjecture about what turn her life and the nation's might have taken had she not failed the exam."
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2008/feb/15/chain-email/she-failed-then-followed-bill/
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Or Michelle Obama? All of them went on to have very successful legal careers.
Any actual lawyer knows that not passing a bar exam the first time is common because top law schools teach legal reasoning, not the specific laws that are the subject of the bar exam.
https://getbarmax.com/failing-the-bar-exam/
Divernan
(15,480 posts)My points, in refutation of your emotional claims and which you predictably ignored, were that (1) she never did any work as a licensed lawyer for the Children's Defense Fund in lieu of going on marches, as you described it, and (2) she did not have the option of working for a top law firm in lieu of whatever work she did for Children's Defense Fund, because she wasn't licensed at that time.
Obviously you are not "an actual lawyer", but that's OK, I'm sure you've watched a lot of them on the teevee.
Not passing the exam the first time is NOT common, as you claim, but does happen to some people who end up RETAKING THE EXAM, something HRC did not have the courage to do, because she'd have had to publicly admit failure the first time around - to her friends, her law school classmates and most frightening of all, her hyper-critical father. I say she lacked courage because she kept it a secret for decades, even from those who thought they were her close friends.
You are so funny! "Top law schools" teach legal reasoning, "not the specific laws"? Get outta town! Let's see, first year there's contracts and torts and civil procedure; then criminal procedure, law of corporations and product liability; UCC, international law, administrative law, estates and trusts, family law - and in my day, law of admiralty and antitrust - all jam-packed with specific LAWS (case law and legislative law). Yes, the first year emphasizes teaching us how to think like a lawyer (legal reasoning) and applying that ability and integrating that perspective into every single substantive class. Further, HRC took a months long bar preparation course, the content of which was tailored to the most recent multi-state portions of the bar exam.
As to the "top law schools" of which you imagine you are qualified to speak, here's some fun facts.
Graduates of those schools are expected to and in fact do pass at higher rates. For example, take California (since you mentioned Jerry Brown), which is consistently ranked as having the most difficult bar exam in the nation. And I am familiar with what goes on bar-wise in California, since I have a post-JD certificate in teaching trial advocacy from UC Berkeley/Boalt Hall and have 3 cousins currently practicing law in San Diego.
http://www.protectconsumerjustice.org/california-bar-exam-pass-rates-by-law-school.html
UC Berkeley has the highest pass rate for the California Bar of any of California's law schools, at 93.2%.
But Yale (HRC's alma mater) law school grads scored a 100% pass rate when they took the California bar. Those pass rates do not conform with your ridiculous claim that "not passing a bar exam the first time" (i.e., failing the bar) is common.
Looking at recent nationwide statistics,
In 2013, the nationwide pass rate for the July bar exam was 72%. However, those numbers do not tell the whole story. A closer look into the July 2013 pass rate reveals that 1st time bar exam takers passed at an 80% rate while repeat exam takers passed at only a 29% mark.
http://abovethelaw.com/2014/12/why-are-bar-exam-retakers-failing-at-a-high-rate/?rf=1
The pressure involved with the bar exam and the speed at which you have to answer questions are hard to convey to those who havent done it. It is brutal. My hat is off to anyone who has to put themselves through it a second time.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)with a major firm in any major city. And they don't require their new staff to have already passed the bar.
As a law graduate yourself, I'm surprised you don't agree that there's a difference between learning about contract law in the abstract, as taught at Yale law school, and learning the specific statutes of contract law for a particular state's bar exam. I don't think most law grads would agree with you, which is why they take the cram courses.
Do you happen to know Yale's pass rate in the year Hillary took the bar exam? Because that would be the relevant comparison, not now. But an average 20% fail rate DOES show that failing the bar is common.
And FDR, Michelle Obama, and Jerry Brown show it can happen to very capable people.
Divernan
(15,480 posts)Here's how it works. Law firms interview 3rd year students in the spring and hire them upon graduation with the absolute requirement and expectation that they will take the end-of-summer bar exam. Sometimes law students who have held summer jobs between 2nd and 3rd year are offered jobs at the start of their 3rd year, contingent upon graduating and taking the next available bar exam. The firms will continue to employ them while they await their bar results. But the firms count on the new hires passing the bar, getting sworn in and licensed in various state/federal courts within another week, and being able to practice law, i.e., be an attorney of record, go to court, etc., IMMEDIATELY. Law firms survive on billable hours - they're not going to carry someone for 6 months who has failed the bar, unless they're a family member of a senior partner, major client or the like.
Nepotism trumps capability, as elsewhere. HRC is an extreme example of nepotism in the law. As a newly licensed attorney, she (at age 28) was hired to teach by the Univ. of Arkansas law school, and a year later, hired by the most prestigious law firm in Arkansas (Rose) and put on the fastest-track-to-partnership ever to be named partner in one year. Youngest law faculty member ever; same for senior partner at a state's top firm.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)and allowed to prepare over the summer. But if her interest had been making a lot of money at a big corporate law firm, she would have had the chance to get that kind of job.
And there's no way to know how close she was to passing that exam the first time. We do know she was a top student till then so maybe she just had a bad day. And we know that has happened to other very capable people.
Like Michelle Obama and FDR.
Art_from_Ark
(27,247 posts)And she did! In 1977, with the Rose Law Firm, where she represented Arkansas electric utility companies fighting against residential ratepayers!
Later, she even became a partner in "the ultimate establishment law firm"[6] in the state and "the legal arm of the powerful", and remained with the firm until she left the state.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Law_Firm
Yeah, she was really fighting poverty, all right!
Divernan
(15,480 posts)Here she was, having freshly failed the D.C. bar and thus decided to join Bill in Arkansas. With ZIP legal experience (having only gotten her law license AFTER she moved to Arkansas) hired to teach at the Univ. of Arkansas law school AND a year later, put on the highest-speed-ever track to partnership at Little Rock's
most prestigious law firm. She has coasted through her professional life on Bill's coat tails.
cali
(114,904 posts)TTUBatfan2008
(3,623 posts)No one is allowed to point out the terrible Clinton policies from the 1990's that continue to hurt minorities today. Or point out that the Clinton campaign refers to minority voters as a firewall, which is an insult to the notion that each voter will think for themselves on the issues that affect them. No one is allowed to point out racism in Clinton's 2008 campaign against Obama either.
HooptieWagon
(17,064 posts)aspirant
(3,533 posts)of everyone he saw and met during the movement?
This would give a balanced statement.
renate
(13,776 posts)Except that John Lewis apparently thinks that the only measurement of involvement in the civil rights movement is having met him.
Disappointing to say the least.
moondust
(19,993 posts)of those involved in the civil rights movement that John Lewis has never met. I'm sure most of those involved weren't doing it for the recognition or fame.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)I rather doubt that he met the Clintons in the sixties, too.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Senator Tankerbell
(316 posts)Bernie was working with CORE in Chicago. Lewis was working with SNCC in the South.
I respect John Lewis. I am disappointed that his statement here seems to imply that he met the Clintons during the civil rights struggle when that is not the case. The Clintons were not involved in that struggle. He met them much later in life. I respect his choice to support Hillary. He clearly trusts her and thinks she is the better choice. But if he is going to imply that Bernie Sanders is lying about his own history, I can't respect that. It's old-fashioned sleazy politics.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)I picked that up, so I appreciate your annotation!
Senator Tankerbell
(316 posts)That's probably what you heard.
kristopher
(29,798 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)not "much later in life."
He's not implying that Bernie is lying; just that he's had many decades of friendship with the Clintons and he personally knows about their long-time commitment to civil rights.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=58380
Response to bigtree (Original post)
Post removed
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Who knew?
thereismore
(13,326 posts)SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)cyberswede
(26,117 posts)Did he meet every single person who worked for civil rights?
Gene Debs
(582 posts)ladjf
(17,320 posts)than you do your fellow African Americans.
I assume that you statement was true. But, do you know for a fact that he was not a civil rights activist that he said he was?
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Why he supports Hillary who staunchly supported Bill's welfare reform which hurt millions of people. I'd like him to explain that.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)If not, I dont get the point of this.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Aka the kitchen sink Bernie talked about at his victory speech in NH
bunnies
(15,859 posts)John Lewis never met Bernie in the 60's. Who the fuck cares?! Someones polling must be worse than we know. What next?
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)money that followed probably freaked them out, it keeps Bernie in the race.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)This debate tonights gonna be REAL interesting.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)spread some doubt and that is all it may do but in the end when voters
disapprove of these kinds of tactics, well. You know what they do, they
give more money to their guy.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)I will be doing just that this evening, I suspect.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)Try this cast iron sink I pulled out of a customer's house.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Empowerer
(3,900 posts)But his supporters repeat that over and over and over ad nauseum. Rep. Lewis is probably as sick of hearing that as many others are since, not only is it not true, but claiming that "Bernie marched with Martin" more deeply involved in the movement than he really was - and possibly close to Dr. King. John Lewis, who really DID march with Martin and WAS close to him, is simply saying that he never saw Sanders, a valid point.
bunnies
(15,859 posts)But I've made it a point to stay away from all of that. I dont even bother to click those threads on DU. I guess I didnt realize it was such a "thing".
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)"How DARE you question Bernie's civil rights record. He was marching with Dr. King in 1963 when Hillary was a Goldwater girl!!!"
bunnies
(15,859 posts)I personally dont understand the desire to re-write history. Its important to me that Bernie was a civil rights activist and Im glad he was. Not marching with Dr. King doesnt make him any less so, imho.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)But, frankly, he did what a whole lot of other people did and holding him up as some kind of a civil rights icon who did things he did not do only diminishes his actual work.
And it doesn't help him at all with the people they're trying to impress because it's annoying as hell . . .
bunnies
(15,859 posts)And I take your word about the annoying part. Being a white chick from NH, I know Im not who theyre trying to impress.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)bunnies
(15,859 posts)Jarqui
(10,126 posts)As many did not that day in Washington - about 200,000 attended.
Figuratively, he did because he was there and supported the cause.
He took a bus from Chicago to Washington to attend the protest and saw the "I have a dream speech" from near the back - near the Washington monument. That's from a video he did for the anniversary of the speech.
He was involved in the civil and human rights movement with the Congress of Racial Equality (CORE) which I believe he became president of for a period. He protested segregation, police brutality, etc during his college years in Chicago.
In the 70s, he goes to Vermont, pitching the same civil & human rights stuff.
80s supports Jesse Jackson runs for President in '84 + '88 - out campaign and helped deliver Vermont for Jesse.
This was not a one day thing.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)But you know as well as I do that many, many of his supporters make that claim anyway. It's such a pervasively spread lie that Snopes has had to address it.
Jarqui
(10,126 posts)arises from it is "march", I can cut a lot of slack for the figurative use of the word.
The guy who had been fighting for civil rights in Chicago and got arrested doing so, buys a bus ticket. Goes to Washington to hear Dr. King and support him at his "March on Washington". Hops on a bus and goes back to Chicago and carries on his fight for civil rights and economic justice that MLK talked about for the next 50+ years.
And you're going to begrudge the figurative use of the word "march" because maybe his bus didn't get him there soon enough to actually walk in the march?
Give me a break. Please, don't be so petty.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)with Dr. King.
And while Sanders efforts were admirable, he did what a lot of other middle class white liberal college students were doing at the time. And it did not involve any great risk on his part. He didn't go down to Mississippi and register voters. He didn't join the freedom rides. He didn't march in Birmingham. He didn't do any of the things that many young people - white and black - did at great personal and physical risk. Again, I'm not saying that his efforts weren't laudable. But they also don't mean that he was some major civil right activist who took any major risks to his physical safety or future to engage in this activity.
And I don't buy the 50 year civil rights fight claim because it just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. He did some good things in Chicago while he was in college and then, in 1968, at the height of the movement, when things were hardest and bleakest, when the movement most needed people to stick with it, he left and moved to Vermont, one of the least diverse places in the country. He didn't stay and fight but instead, exercised his white privilege and chose to move to a place where he would be surrounded by people who looked like him, where blacks were few and far between and where the civil rights movement playing out in the streets across the country was a distant matter. I don't think he did this because he hates black people or didn't care about the movement. But, by the same token, this is not the behavior of a civil rights savior.
Moreover, over the next 48 years, he has done little that could be held up as major fights for civil rights for African Americans. Yes, he fought for things that benefitted his constituents and some of those things have also benefitted blacks - but blacks were not the primary beneficiaries of those fights, which would have occurred whether or not black folks were in the picture. But he does not have much of a record of stepping up and really fighting for civil rights for blacks where he had to put some real skin in the game, take a political risk or alienate his base of white supporters. I even asked people here to point to any instances in the past 48 years when he actually fought for civil rights for blacks (not counting a House or Senate vote, since that's part of his job) and not only did people not come up with any examples, the thread was hidden.
The bottom line is that Sanders, in my view, is a good man, a dedicated liberal and committed public servant who cares about civil rights but has had other priorities throughout his career since his early days of working in the civil rights movement. Claiming otherwise is not only insulting to those of us who know better, it diminishes his actual accomplishments when the truth is told because they pale in comparison to the myth that some are trying to create.
Again, not mad at him for it, but a record like his does not make me want to stand up on the rooftops and proclaim him a great crusader for civil rights for blacks.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)and racial issues as secondary -- with the idea that they would go away if financial justice was achieved.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)oasis
(49,389 posts)OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)She is a "civil rights savior"?
She marched in Birmingham?
She put herself at great physical risk?
I just don't get the double standard.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)I was the young girl in a group of way taller men representing the Union with my father. Oh, and I look different and have a different name now, since I did get married.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Do you remember much about the day?
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)no one talked to me as I was the only kid, but got some exercise and it was the first time I was in Washington so the buildings interested me.
We were not up front, and I have a fear of crowds that probably colors my memories. Got caught in a crowd of trampling girls in a small young girl rock concert before that, so a bit leery when I don't have a lot of space around me.
I know this is not what people want to hear, but I was young and, you know, stupid.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)I bet most of these landmark historical events were a lot less exciting than they sound, especially for kids at the time.
I wonder how many peoples true experience of something like Woodstock was actually sleeping through most of it, and spending most of the rest jostled in crowds not hearing much.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)Needless to say, I was not perfect but a respectable enough young girl to not go off with someone I did not know for a weekend. I missed so much in life, ha ha . He was cute and funny and older, too.
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)hollysmom
(5,946 posts)He never made it there, got caught in traffic and they closed all the roads around there. after a day in the car, he went back home
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)Choosing not to go is one thing, but trying and getting stuck.. he must have been frustrated for years after over that one!
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Probably not.
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)Look, we always talk about how my father marched with Walter Reuther in Detroit. Was he standing next to him, talking to him? no, but he was there, he got hit and smacked by the goons. It is an expression.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)since the expression is being used to make a point and it mischaracterized what actually happened.
And when people are trying to defend Bernie Sanders from criticism for not doing enough on civil rights and are trying to hold him up as a great civil rights champion, there is a big difference between saying, "Bernie marched with Dr. King" and "Bernie Sanders took a chartered bus to Washington, sat way back on the Mall and listened to Martin Luther King give a speech."
hollysmom
(5,946 posts)the fact is what both men said is true, this is why democrats can not have nice things, they have to fight to the death over little stuff.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)hollysmom
(5,946 posts)is true, just like I marched with King, for a cause. Unless I look at everyone's post I can't tell you, but it is a stupid argument either way, the point of the march was to be supportive and to show the power of people, not to hold hands with famous people.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)deeply involved in the movement than he was. And invoking Dr. King's name seems to be intended to suggest that he did indeed rub shoulders with certain people - otherwise, why even mention his name?
He never marched with Dr. King, regardless how you define it. Apparently, the only time he was ever anywhere near anything Dr. King was participating in was the March on Washington, which he did not march in. Sanders himself says that he came on a bus and sat on the Mall and listened to the speech. The March was a different event that the people who came on buses from out of town did not participate in.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)that young girl is going through the same thing. Is she a member of Sanders clan?
Response to Empowerer (Reply #38)
thereismore This message was self-deleted by its author.
quickesst
(6,280 posts)" I was chair of the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee for three years -- 1963 to 1966," he said. "I was involved in the sit-ins, the freedom rides, the March on Washington, the march from Selma to Montgomery. I directed the board of education project for six years."
And he never met him?:
cali
(114,904 posts)Bernie was in Chicago. As far as I know, Lewis was not. It sounds like he's calling Bernie a liar over something that is very well documented. Weird
Vinca
(50,278 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 11, 2016, 04:37 PM - Edit history (1)
Why would he have known John Lewis? As I recall, the March on Washington was more than a few hundred people for heaven's sake. Did John Lewis meet Hillary doing civil rights work? Oh, wait, she was a Goldwater girl then. Unlikely.
dana_b
(11,546 posts)so it's okay to cast a doubt onto Bernie but this little nugget of truth is ignored and just fine?? The tactics are getting so crappy now.
I'd say it's not the kitchen sink but the toilet!
HubertHeaver
(2,522 posts)Time to work on the bathrooms.
Hekate
(90,714 posts)"Bernie was a student civil riots protester like thousands of civil rights protesters."
A simple edit will take care of that.
Vinca
(50,278 posts)Bok_Tukalo
(4,323 posts)This is very disappointing.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)people close to Dr. King when he was marching with Martin!"
cali
(114,904 posts)He has said he participated in the March on Washington. I don't get Lewis's point. Why would he have met Bernie? Bernie was living in Chicago during the time he was a civil rights activist. Lewis was not. Why should their paths have crossed?
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)supporters from spreading that lie. We have been inundated with claims that "Bernie marched with Dr. King." And he's done nothing to correct them, perhaps because having that story out there helps him. Lewis has certainly heard that tale repeated over and over - how could he miss it? - and is simply noting that he never saw him. if "Bernie had marched with Dr. King," Lewis no doubt would have seen him.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)He didn't march with King and never claimed to.
Never claimed to work with SNCC in the south where Lewis was.
Did claim to work with CORE in Chicago and raise money for SNCC. There are pictures and arrest records, so I'm pretty sure he did that unless he knew in the 60s he was going to run for President in 2016 and got someone to impersonate him.
Beacool
(30,250 posts)That must have stung.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)This is a non-issue.
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)That if you're not Mary Ann Vecchio at Kent State, or the student in Flower Power, that your contributions are pointless?
What a load of baloney! Often times it's the quiet folks, that are not focused on getting their picture in a textbook, that are the most influential.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)No.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)This is an amateur-level smear if I ever saw one.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)I'm sure he didn't see me, though. I was in the back of the crowd. I saw him. I saw MLK. That certainly doesn't put me in the forefront of the civil rights movement. I wasn't. I was there, though.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)dana_b
(11,546 posts)That must have stung!
Sorry - I know that's childish but I am sick of these non issues being thrown in Bernie's and our face(s).
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)when people go looking into his history, we find gems like the one above.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)This is not Bernies SNIPER FIRE moment. But thats what Lewis was insinuating.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Lewis met Bill and Hillary in the 70's, before Bill had his first political job.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=58380
He's not disputing that Bernie was in protests. He's just saying that he never met him or saw him -- that is, had any contact with him.
Much less a friendship over many decades.
rurallib
(62,423 posts)I heard the lewis story on the radio earlier and wondered why Lewis would want to put a huge gouge in his lifetime of integrity for Clinton.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)He just wasn't there enough to be noticed.
Myrina
(12,296 posts)"... See Me! I'm Here! Shake My Hand! I'm Going to be Famous Someday! Let Me Get In Your Face! I Need to be Noticed!" is just not Senator Sanders' style.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)But if Sanders intended to be a leader in this issue he needed to get out front and lead. Apparently he didn't do that.. otherwise John Lewis would have remembered him.
StandingInLeftField
(972 posts)Take your time, I'll wait.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)Duval
(4,280 posts)workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)That's all I need to know.
God bless John Lewis a REAL american HERO!
Response to workinclasszero (Reply #65)
Post removed
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)What exactly? Thats all I need to know about - - what??
Response to bigtree (Original post)
Post removed
George II
(67,782 posts)who still bears the scars of his heroism, has to be smeared.
I'll take John Lewis' word over Bernard Sanders' word any day.
frylock
(34,825 posts)DaveT
(687 posts)What are you talking about?
Alfresco
(1,698 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)So John Lewis' comments are merely comments.
bern indeed eh?
Alfresco
(1,698 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)Simply scroll to the bottom of berniesanders.com for a few of them.
A simple google search would reveal more.
And they're in his book "Outsider in the White House."
R B Garr
(16,954 posts)Arazi
(6,829 posts)And photos.
I'm sure he didn't meet John Lewis. Sanders was.in Chicago.
matt819
(10,749 posts)Here in New Hampshire, the name of Jonathan Daniels is well known. A native of Keene, he was active in the civil rights movement in the south. Daniels, white, died in August 1965 when saving an African-American woman, Ruby Sales, in Haynesville, Alabama. Martin Luther King, Jr. observed at the time, One of the most heroic Christian deeds of which I have heard in my entire ministry was performed by Jonathan Daniels.
I did a quick Google search but could find no reference to Jonathan Daniels having met John Lewis. Does that diminish Daniels' action? If it does, it didn't come up when he was awarded the Jonathan Daniels Award from VMI in 2015. More information about the award is here: http://www.episcopalcafe.com/rep-john-lewis-to-receive-jonathan-daniels-award/. And the Wikipedia entry on Daniels is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Daniels. There is a reference in a biography of Stokely Carmichael that Lewis attended a mass following Daniels' murder, but no indication from a quick read that Lewis had ever met Daniels.
A year earlier three white civil rights workers - James Earl Chaney, Andrew Goodman, and Michael "Mickey" Schwerner - were abducted and murdered while fighting for civil rights in Philadelphia, Mississippi. The Wikipiedia page on the three - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mississippi_civil_rights_workers%27_murders - does not note whether the three ever met John Lewis. Does that diminish their action on behalf of civil rights?
The irony is that many northern, liberal Jews were active supporters of the civil rights movement in the 1960s.
In contrast, the young Hillary Clinton supported Richard Nixon in 1960 and Barry Goldwater in 1964. It wasn't until the 1960s that she switched to the Democratic Party.
Sure, it may be unkind to question John Lewis. Yes, he was a pioneer of the civil rights movement, but in this case his comments simply don't hold water, and I don't think it's unfair for him to have made the comments he did or for the Clinton campaign to use it as an "artful smear." Or, in my view, an inartful smear.
retrowire
(10,345 posts)FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)I would rather deal with the mob than with a Clinton.
Autumn
(45,106 posts)Bernie did march in the March on Washington and was a student organizer in SNCC That's a fact. I would like to see a link to Bernie saying he had met John Lewis.
Karmadillo
(9,253 posts)sarge43
(28,941 posts)thereismore
(13,326 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)retrowire
(10,345 posts)This comment from John Lewis is merely a comment.
ETA: Not like he met Hillary or Bill in those civil rights events. So, what he's trying to imply is disingenuous.
jillan
(39,451 posts)moving in different circles than you, Congressman Lewis.
I have the utmost respect for John Lewis but I do not understand the point of this.
Many people were involved in activism during the civil rights movement. You are not going to work with all of them.
That's impossible.
karynnj
(59,504 posts)Not to mention, he was one of many young Jewish college students who worked hard on this. I seriously doubt John Lewis, who I respect, knew each and everyone.
I guess they started this after the whispers that ir was unlikely he really spent a year at a kibbutz.
Skwmom
(12,685 posts)You know, John was up here talking about being 60 years old, and I was thinking about the first time I met him, when I was just a young man back in the seventies, held no office, wanted to get elected to something in my State, and was interested in helping a fellow from Georgia named Carter get elected President. And I remember John talking to me about all these stories we saw in the movie.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=58380
Lewis - In 1970, he became director of the Voter Education Project. During his tenure, the VEP helped to register millions of minority voters.
http://www.biography.com/people/john-lewis-21305903#political-life
Chakab
(1,727 posts)...or did he meet at the time that she was calling black people super predators and supporting mass incarceration?
These attacks are getting sillier and sillier.
Hekate
(90,714 posts)ROFLMAO for freaking obvious reasons. We keep trying to tell the mystified acolytes that BOTH Clintons have a relationship with the AA community going back decades.
Last night I engaged with someone who kept asking what the "secret sauce" was, and every time I said it was no secret I was given some version of "You won't answer my question."
Let me repeat, once again, HILLARY CLINTON FORGED RELATIONSHIPS GOING BACK ALMOST 50 YEARS AND IT IS NOT A SECRET.
JURY: There is no secret sauce. Relationships matter in politics as in life.
StandingInLeftField
(972 posts)No hurry, I'll wait.
Nanjeanne
(4,961 posts)What's with these surrogates that they can't just talk about their candidate in a positive way? It's so sad to see people I've admired resorting to this stuff.
I guess the kitchen sink includes people I've longed respected doing the dirty work. It's RACE now. After SC it will be TAXES.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)NT
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)He says he was there....no one remembers any actual action, or tangible results that benefitted that group.
unapatriciated
(5,390 posts)He never said he marched with MLK, but did attend his speech.
Sanders was working for civil rights in Chicago during his college days.
This link is from post #60 Thanks to Flatbroque
He was arrested in Chicago for protesting.
The Asst. State Attorney named him as one of the one's in charge of the protest
http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1964/01/14/page/6/article/race-protest-cases-of-159-are-decided
Hilary was not envolved in the civil rights movement until after her stint as a Goldwater girl and to my knowledge never envolved in any type of protest during that time.
Sheepshank
(12,504 posts)it's an on going meme, because "he voted". His 25+year as an elected official, and he has done so little to advance the cause of civil rights, he has to fall back on a march 50 years ago....as if he participation actually changed history. He voted...that's it. So did 1000's of politicians over the years. Some were even Republicans.
Matt_in_STL
(1,446 posts)I'd love to get some insight on what Hillary has done to advance the cause of civil rights but I know you'll just deflect and come up with nothing.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)I don't have a problem with his record, but it is not the record of a major civil rights champion. I find that the people who believe it is tend not to know any real civil rights champions, so they think that Sanders is something really unusual.
The narrative is "Bernie marched with Dr. King and was arrested and has spent the last 50 years fighting for civil rights. When asked what he's done in the last 50 years, we get, "Bernie MARCHED WITH DR. KING WHEN HILLARY WAS A GOLDWATER GIRL!"
Yesterday, I gave people a chance to offer up examples of specific things that Sanders had done since 1968 to fight for African Americans, beyond casting votes in the House and Senate, in instances in which he took political risk or went against his white constituency. People mentioned his 1988 endorsement of Jesse Jackson, his Iraq War vote, his welfare reform vote and other votes. They mentioned him "supporting" or "speaking out" on various things, but could come up with no examples of Sanders going out of his way, taking a risk, or putting himself on the line to fight for civil rights for African Americans. And they were so upset by the question, the thread was alerted and hidden.
FYI, the reason I selected 1968 as the starting date is that is the year that Sanders left Chicago and moved to Vermont, where he would be surrounded by people the same race as he and from where the civil rights movement playing out in the streets and courts was very far removed.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)of a friend and former colleague who passed away suddenly from pancreatic cancer. I was seated there amongst people I had worked with for ages and afterward we mingled and reconnected. The point is..I WORKED WITH THESE PEOPLE FOR YEARS, side by side, and not only did some of them not recognize me, I didnt recognize many of them. Theyd walk right up to me and throw their arms around my neck and say DORKZILLA!!!! Ive thought about you SO often! I heard from XXXX (my former boss) that youd recently gotten married! Remember that time when we.... and I couldnt for the FUCKING LIFE OF ME remember who they were. Even after one of my close friends whispered their name into my ear and what department theyd worked in.
Such a stupid thing to say, as if it means anything.
Response to bigtree (Original post)
thereismore This message was self-deleted by its author.
Hell Hath No Fury
(16,327 posts)I respect Lewis but that's a pretty shitty way to dismiss the hard work of thousands of activists from that time who were active all across the country.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)MrWendel
(1,881 posts)carburyme
(146 posts)It's happening folks!
DU is so predictable these days. Don't know why I even bother chekin in.
Everything is Hillary's fault. She is really so evil and desperate she must have sent John Lewis to smear their god now he's under the bottom pile of buses...
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)If some people had any sense of shame they would apologize to the honorable man that bore beatings and jail for the rights they take for granted today.
This is a shameful chapter in the democratic party. I'm sad that a hero like John Lewis gets a knife in the back for the sin of supporting Hillary Clinton.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)I echo those above that he's a hero, not a saint
DCBob
(24,689 posts)rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)your Facebook page is about to get some "comments"
snort
(2,334 posts)I don't recall meeting John Lewis.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)snort
(2,334 posts)Perhaps another danish with my coffee will make me feel better.
Seriously, these 'artful smears' are very disappointing. Please don't do that, Hillary.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)thereismore
(13,326 posts)gregcrawford
(2,382 posts)... and the likelihood of Mr. Lewis, who was the Director of the organization, having met Mr. Sanders, who was just another idealistic kid doing a good thing, is minuscule. To imply that Mr. Lewis' statement is, by some twist of convoluted logic, a condemnation of Sanders is absurd in the extreme. I doubt that Sanders met Lewis' successor, Stoakley Carmichael, either. Will that elicit a gasp from the audience as well?
BTW, I've seen a few people just on this thread confuse the words "imply" and "infer." They are NOT synonyms. To imply is to suggest; to infer is to deduce.
There'll be a quiz in the morning.
- Your friendly neighborhood grammar bully
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)ejbr
(5,856 posts)if he really does remember him or not. It's about the money Lebowski! It's sad when we actually begin to give politicians the benefit of the doubt in regard to honesty when it isn't about truth to them, but money and access.
Rachel's town hall HAD a picture of Bernie in the 1960s organizing for fair housing. If this isn't enough for some people, nothing will be.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)Mike Nelson
(9,959 posts)...about John Lewis not meeting Bernie - but the way he said it was something else. The comment isn't about their non-meeting.
AzDar
(14,023 posts)desperate in '08, that she kept invoking the RFK assassination, and IIRC, at one point she pretended to cry...
They are SHAMELESS
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)I tracked down the video clip. This wasn't part of his prepared remarks, it was in response to a question of what he thought of Bernie's civil rights record. It sounds to me like he's simply stating that he never met Sanders during that time, but he "knows," in other words, is confident of the commitment that Hillary and Bill have to civil rights. The main portion of his remarks are about going to SC to campaign for Hillary, he doesn't mention Bernie at all.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/lewis-on-sanderss-civil-rights-record-621092419770
elleng
(130,973 posts)Nice photo of John, Jane, and Bernie:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511201854
Sorry to add to this 'noise,' but thought people might like to know.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)First, All Folks Supporting The Civil Rights Movement During The 1960's Where Not Required To Check In with John Lewis.
Second, Well, There's This -- From FactCheck.org:
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Sickening.
whatchamacallit
(15,558 posts)Otherwise how could Lewis justify supporting the Clintons with their destructive record? Cognitive dissonance.
John Poet
(2,510 posts)I've never seen John Lewis.
Still wouldn't mind seeing him, but I've never seen him here.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)I have the utmost respect for him and what he says.
jalan48
(13,870 posts)thereismore
(13,326 posts)tularetom
(23,664 posts)Lewis is implying that he met Hillary Clinton and Bill Clinton during the days of the civil rights movement, in the mid-60's and that's misleading.
By Bill Clintons own admission he never met the Congressman until the 70's well past the height of the movement. Hillary Clinton on the other hand did not even graduate high school until 1965 and I have never seen any claim that she participated in any freedom ride, sit ins, marches or demonstrations during that period.
Nor have I ever heard Sen. Sanders claim to have met Congressman Lewis.
I think there is something else going on here. Apparently there is a school of thought that Sanders is insufficiently worshipful of President Obama, and he should be made to pay for his heresy.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)His claim, that he met Bill and Hillary, say between 1963 and 1966 when he was president of that group...
Hillary was only between 16 and 19 years old and Bill was 17 to 20 years old...remember they didn't marry until 1975.
So Mr. Lewis claims that he knew them, then????
Sorry Mr. Lewis but those times were long ago and there were thousands and thousands involved. Not to question your memories but this is just too embellished to believe. And, like so many others have said...maybe you just flat out never met Bernie. Did everyone that was involved need to come to you when you were the president of that group?
No wonder Twitterverse is lighting up, questioning all of this.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)I wonder if Sanders remembers meeting Lewis.
I wonder why anyone would care who remembers who?
I remember going to school with Marvin Bush.... but only because, well, you know...
I bet Marvin doesn't remember me!
Armstead
(47,803 posts)He could have answered with a simple No I never him back then.
Instead he had to trumpet his own involvement, to artfully imply that Sanders
Was not really a participant.
I hate to see so many of the people I have admired showing a shitty side in thrir alliance with Clinton.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)He was asked if he knew Sanders from the civil rights era?
Lewis could have simply said "No we never met during that period." and left it at that.
Instead, he got this huffy tone and said "I was (hear and there) and no I never met him..But I did meet the Clintons."
The clear innuendo was to demean and cast doubt that Sanders really had been active in the movement. It was unnecessarily nasty, and somewhat deceptive.
SusanLarson
(284 posts)I hate to say it, but Mr Lewis has already made clear exactly where his loyalties lay. He is either being forgetful or outright dishonest to support his candidate of choice.
Bernie Sander's record in Civil rights is just as unquestionable as Mr Lewis. Does Mr Lewis suggest that he intimately remembers everyone involved in the civil rights movement.
"The Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC), as an organization, began with an $800.00 grant from the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) for a conference attended by 126 student delegates from 58 sit-in centers in 12 states, along with delegates from 19 northern colleges, the SCLC, Congress of Racial Equality (CORE), Fellowship of Reconciliation (FOR), National Student Association (NSA), and Students for a Democratic Society (SDS). Out of this conference the SNCC was formed.[7][8]"
Bernie Sanders was a activist with for the Congress for Racial Equality in Chicago, and would have likely been directly involved in the formation of the SNCC.
captainarizona
(363 posts)I have said this before but its important. I got blocked from the bernie thread some time ago when I mentioned bernie needs to do more to attract the democratic minority vote.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)Truprogressive85
(900 posts)I get it its politics as usual
DCBob
(24,689 posts)All he said is that he never met Bernie nor remembered him. Is that a lie in your opinion?
Qutzupalotl
(14,317 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)Qutzupalotl
(14,317 posts)DCBob
(24,689 posts)Because it makes no sense.
Truprogressive85
(900 posts)I disagree on the premise him endorsing HRC
maybe you need to fallback
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Just waiting now for a photo from 1963 with Lewis shaking Bernie's handat an event. Tic tic tic.....
bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)1. Raising Money For Korean Orphans: International solidarity was an unusual concept for any American to have in the 1950s, let alone a high school student. But one of Sanders first campaigns was to run for class president at James Madison High School in New York City. His platform was based around raising scholarship funds for Korean war orphans. Although he lost, the person who did win the campaign decided to endorse Sanders campaign, and scholarships were created.
2. Being Arrested For Desegregation: As a student at the University of Chicago, Sanders was active in both the Congress on Racial Equality (CORE) and the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee (SNCC). In 1962, he was arrested for protesting segregation in public schools in Chicago; the police came to call him an outside agitator, as he went around putting up flyers around the city detailing police brutality.
3. Marching In March On Washington:Sanders joined the mega-rally called by the leaders of the civil rights movement, a formative event of his youth.
More at link:
http://www.salon.com/2015/07/22/20_examples_of_bernie_sanders_powerful_record_on_civil_and_human_rights_partner/
PonyUp
(1,680 posts)Qutzupalotl
(14,317 posts)He would have had to turn around in order to meet Bernie.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)John Lewis Said He Never Met Bernie At a Civil Rights March.....
Guess John Lewis was Full Of It!
Tarc
(10,476 posts)Sadly...
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)I don't think this is what you were fighting for, but I could be mistaken.
zentrum
(9,865 posts)
..and Bill back in 63 and 66 in civil rights organizations and marches, when he complains he did not meet Bernie? Comparing "meetings" and "non-meetings" that are 30 years apart seems misleading. Or do I have that part wrong?
I have great respect for Congressman Lewis and know how important his work is, but he sounds a little like Cornell West's reasons for criticizing Obama back in the day. Paraphrasing: "Well, he never did such and such around me. I am the measure of his commitment to the cause."
Bernie was very active in these causes in 63 forward. What difference does it make if he and Lewis ever met? For that matter, would Lewis even remember if he met some young guy named Bernie 50 years ago?
Is Lewis saying that Bernie is lying about his organizing in SNCC? That's quite an accusation.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)In case anyone wants to read.
What the heck is that picture of Christy doing on his banner?
MuseRider
(34,111 posts)for all the great things he has done. I will respect him for all the things he will do. I even respect that he has chosen his candidate and has moved the CBCPAC to endorse. That is his business.
I also respect that he may not have met or seen Bernie during those days. Bernie is not the type to make himself a stand out but more like another person working with others. The Clinton's are not like that, I have never seen them take a back seat and let someone else get the glory so it makes sense that they would make a point to meet him. It is just the way they are, many people are like that. I don't even care about that.
I DO care that this statement was made to unfairly discredit someone who has only done good things for other people. This statement is a political dirty trick and I am sad that he has done that.
That aside, his work is respectable and commendable and I will continue to respect him.
We have to be able to take this kind of blind side. I never expected him to say these things but he has. Throwing the man under the bus is the absolute wrong thing to do. I hope we do not see that.
Z_California
(650 posts)"Infer" is something the listener does. Used in a sentence, "People who listen to this quote by Rep. Lewis may INFER that Bernie is lying about his efforts in the Civil Rights movement in the '60's."
"Imply" is something the speaker does. "By saying he never met Bernie back in the 60's but that he DID meet the Clintons, Rep. Lewis is IMPLYING that the Clintons were involved in the Civil Rights movement but Bernie wasn't". It becomes a clear implication by omission of the fact that he met the Clintons later, in the '70's, not in the 60's when Rep. Lewis didn't meet most of the thousands of protesters who were behind the movement (another fact also omitted by design).
We should probably also look at the word "Implode". This is what is happening not only to the Clinton campaign at the moment, but also to the Democratic Party, as the Clintons are busy using up their political capital to continue a dishonest smear campaign against a hell of a good guy who has been fighting on the side of the oppressed from the very beginning of his adulthood.
MuseRider
(34,111 posts)Very well said. I really like this.
FlatBaroque
(3,160 posts)Billsmile
(404 posts)Way back in October.
Matt_in_STL
(1,446 posts)But I didn't see her there so it must not have happened.
Zen Democrat
(5,901 posts)As I read John's statement about meeting the Clinton's in 1976 - and reading Bill's recollection that it was during the Carter campaign when Bill was working for Jimmy Carter in Georgia - I recall that Bill was the Texas coordinator for the George McGovern campaign in 1972. He saw Hale Boggs off at the airport on his list flight in Alaska. So in both 1972 and 1976, Bill and Hillary were campaigning and also shopping around for FOB's to add to their Rolodex. This is political activism, not civil rights activism. The first time I heard of Hillary was 1972 with the Nixon impeachment hearings in Congress.
Trying to strip Bernie of his civil rights credentials is about the lowest of the low, and I'm disappointed with John Lewis letting his legacy be used as a political tool. In the 1960's, Bernie was putting it on the line when it mattered most, when it was most dangerous, and while Bill and Hillary were in high school, college and law school.
No complaints about attending school, and I voted for Clinton twice. But not for Hillary this time. She talks about having experience, and getting things done, but .... WHAT THINGS, at .... WHAT PRICE?
Edited to remind that Michael Schwerner and Andrew Goodman were Jewish boys from the North who traveled to Mississippi and met their deaths at the hands of the Klan. Did John Lewis meet them?
people
(625 posts)You tube posted to "Breaking Brown family" on John Lewis' comments:
people
(625 posts)GeorgeGist
(25,321 posts)moondust
(19,993 posts)and cultivating pals like these guys, I imagine young Billy became quite fluent in the fine arts of dog whistles, race baiting, and innuendo. Would be interesting to go back and examine what was said and done in his race for governor there.
Response to bigtree (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Tierra_y_Libertad
(50,414 posts)Big deal.
Mnpaul
(3,655 posts)I think some, who talk about it on the internet, think that doing that is enough. I admire people who actually get out in the street and walk the talk.
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)In 2007 EITHER -- So What Again Does His Support Is Suppose To Mean To African-Americans and Who They Choose to be POTUS Again?
NOTHING!
"
Well, the Obama campaign might be winning the spin war over Clinton's remarks on Iran yesterday, but the Clinton camp picks up a key endorsement from civil-rights leader Rep. John Lewis (D). In a statement posted on the Clinton campaign's Web site, Lewis says, "I have looked at all the candidates, and I believe that Hillary Clinton is the best prepared to lead this country at a time when we are in desperate need of strong leadership. She will restore a greater sense of community in America, and reclaim our standing in the world."
That Lewis would endorse Clinton over Obama -- the first African-American with a legitimate chance of winning the Dem nomination -- is a blow to the Illinois senator's campaign."
http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2007/10/12/4429945-john-lewis-endorses-clinton
Sienna86
(2,149 posts)Thanks for sharing that news story. I had forgotten. What's up with this guy?
LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)If John Lewis Want TO Jump On the Bus, He Deserves To Be Expected To Pay His Fare.
Either He Corrects The Record on Bernie Sanders or Face Criticism - Which He Should - Now TWICE OVER for picking the Wrong POTUS Candidate.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Empowerer
(3,900 posts)LovingA2andMI
(7,006 posts)So, umm and ---
When did Barack Obama Declare His Intent to Seek The Democratic Nomination Again:
John Lewis Was NOT THERE. #FYI!!!
iandhr
(6,852 posts)LiberalArkie
(15,719 posts)But I guess he could have met him at Fulbrights office, but that would be strange because Fulbright was a segregationist as most were in the south at the time.
Kind of like the Forest Gump story, people meet others in strange ways and in strange circumstances.
paulkienitz
(1,296 posts)Helen Borg
(3,963 posts)Other were there, so pretty easy to compare notes.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)DaveT
(687 posts)A debate over John Lewis's bizarre comment that he never saw Sanders in the old days. OK. He never saw him.
Hillary, her brain trust and her supporters learned nothing on Tuesday night. I am relieved.
You wanna run with this barn burner of an issue? Oh God, please put about 20 million dollars into attack ads against Bernie for never meeting John Lewis.
What a bunch of maroons.
Elmer S. E. Dump
(5,751 posts)Gothmog
(145,321 posts)DaveT
(687 posts)I trust him too. He never met Sanders in the old days.
So what? Seriously, what does that have to do with anything?
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Comply with the Bernie cult or else!
DesertRat
(27,995 posts)Bryce Butler
(338 posts)Empowerer
(3,900 posts)but since it's being posted all over the place, maybe it shows that John Lewis knows Bernie Sanders now.
He also knows Hillary Clinton. When he had to decide whom to endorse in the primaries, he decided to endorse Hillary.
End of story.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Empowerer
(3,900 posts)Right before Lewis and Sanders linked arms and marched over the bridge together and were beaten and gassed by the Alabama State Troopers
Stainless
(718 posts)This appears to be willful ignorance and shameless pandering on the part of John Lewis. What a travesty it is for an icon of the Civil Right Movement to tarnish his image in such a pathetic manner.
Does John Lewis really think that he is the only person who is worthy to determine the authenticity of everyone who ever worked in the Civil Rights struggle?
The buffoonery on the part of Hillary supporters in putting this out there shows how utterly terrified the Democratic establishment truly is of Bernie's message and his appeal to people willing to listen and to think.
oasis
(49,389 posts)"insider" stories during their decades long association in the House of Representatives. Same side of the aisle and all.
BainsBane
(53,035 posts)On DU I was told in the most emphatic terms that Bernie had done more for civil rights than anyone.
johnlucas
(1,250 posts)*sigh* My God.
Hillary is desperate.
John's paying back a favor but he needs to cut the Clintons loose.
The Clintons ain't on our side.
We have a choice for once.
We don't have to hold our nose & vote against the Republican this time.
This is 2008 all over again & she's scared to DEATH!
This IS her last chance to fulfill her old childhood ambition.
To be the First Female President of the United States.
So she will do ANYTHING it takes. I just hoped it wouldn't be this.
If Hillary had integrity & stuck to her guns on progressive issues, she would have no problem fulfilling that childhood ambition.
We would have GLADLY made her the First Female President.
But you sold out. You got compromised. You got corrupted.
If we have a choice, we will not support you.
There's a reason why you keep getting blindsided by candidates who run from "The Left".
You have no conviction other than reaching this last achievement of being the First Female President of the United States.
Obama didn't quite live up to that 2008 campaign but I'm glad he ran it.
It set the stage for a new energized coalition that will run politics in America for the next coming decades.
Bernie is taking advantage of the coalition Obama forged & will follow through on what that campaign stood for.
And he has ALL the credentials backing him up to do it.
John Lewis despite participating in this foolishness I still respect you.
Nobody can take away YOUR credentials in the Movement.
But please don't let yourself get tainted with the skullduggery of the Clintons.
There's no future in that. Their time is over.
He was the best we could do in 1992 to slow down that Republican coalition.
We have better choices now.
And furthermore John, it won't work.
This is the Information Age now.
You can tell a whole story with a simple GIF that goes viral in meme form.
I know you may owe the Clintons favors but don't pay 'em back like this.
People will see right through it. Enough of them will anyway.
Bernie Sanders will be the Democratic nominee & there's nothing Hillary Rodham & her Superdelegates can do about it.
Next go round. Try integrity. It especially works when you do it when it's unpopular.
John Lucas
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)The more lies and character assassination by Clinton supporters,
the more $$$ goes out to Bernie.
OrwellwasRight
(5,170 posts)his remark about "I never saw him, I never met him," is beneath him.
There were millions of people in the Civil Rights Movement. Whether or not they all got to meet John Lewis is not any kind of a legitimate litmus test. I certainly hope no one ever tells me I wasn't active in the anti-apartheid movement in the 1980s because they never saw me at a protest. Or that I wasn't a student leader in the Jerry Brown for President Campaign ('92) because they met me. Or that I wasn't at President Obama's first inauguration because they don't recall seeing me there.
It's just a completely, thoroughly, and in all other ways, ludicrous thing to say.
Rep. Lewis has every right to support Hillary and I'm sure he has very good reasons for doing so that I would never dare to impugn. But "I never saw Bernie Sanders during the Civil Rights Movement" is not one of them.
Respect.
Nanjeanne
(4,961 posts)An excellent documentary. With John Lewis and Bernie Sanders talking about voter disenfranchisement. From IMDb:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0492443/
Chronicles the recurring patterns of disenfranchisement witnessed from 2000 to 2004 while following the story of Georgia Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney, who not only took an active role in investigating these election debacles but also found herself in the middle of one after publicly questioning the Bush Administration about the 9-11 terrorist attacks. Some call Cynthia McKinney a civil rights leader among the ranks of Shirley Chisholm and Malcolm X. Others call her a conspiracy theorist and a 'looney.' American Blackout gains unprecedented access to one of the most controversial and dangerous politicians in America and examines the contemporary tactics used to control our democratic process and silence political dissent. The film features interviews with: US Congressional Representatives, John Lewis, Cynthia McKinney, John Conyers, Bernie Sanders, and Stephanie Tubbs-Jones; former US Civil Rights Commissioner & Dean of UC Berkeley's School of Law, Christopher Edley; BBC journalist ... Written by Ian Inaba
Another article about this Sundance winning film.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/130538/coming-soon-theater-near-you-cynthia-mckinney-kathryn-jean-lopez
I can't imagine why Senator Sanders is given time in this film when he has never done anything for civil rights.
SHRED
(28,136 posts)Because that's how he sounds to me.