Having a caucus on Saturday really isn't a great idea.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

It disenfranchises Orthodox Jews who can not vote on Saturday.


In fact caucuses in general aren't a really great idea. Caucuses violate the most precious tenets of a democracy, including the secret ballot, one person-one vote, and ease of voting.

I don't want to vote with my boss, my co-worker, my friend, or even my own kin sitting next to me.

That being said, I don't believe a Saturday caucus is inherently favorable or unfavorable to any candidate, in most instances.

[bigwillq]

1. I am glad my state is NOT a caucus state

I probably would never vote in a caucus. I work second shift and on weekends. I wouldn't have the time to caucus. I like that my state is a primary state.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. Imagine the chaos if we elected all public officials that way.

[Beacool]

20. My state has a closed primary.

That's as it should be. If you're not a member of a party, then you have no business voting for the person who will be the standard bearer of that party. For example, if I'm not a registered Republican, why should I be allowed to vote in their primary?

I don't like caucuses and open primaries where anyone can cross party lines to attempt to propel or block a candidate of the opposition. It's not democratic.

[bigwillq]

21. My state (CT) is also a closed primary state

I am cool with it.

[Beacool]

22. Me too.

If people don't want to have skin in the game, then they shouldn't be allowed to vote in the primaries. They can vote in the general, but they shouldn't have any say in a party's primary.

I attend a Lutheran church. To me it's equivalent as if someone from a Catholic church turns up at a church council meeting and expects to get elected president of the council. Why? That person wouldn't even be a Lutheran, let alone a member of our church. Of course it would never happen, but why is it OK in politics for people who are not a member of a party to have a say on who should be that party's nominee? The election process in this country is just ridiculous.

[thomservo]

2. k&R. n/t

[boston bean]

3. Saturday morning is better than a week night.

[Carolina]

4. The SC

Primary is on Saturday (2/27).

[Matt_in_STL]

8. But if it isn't a caucus, absentee voting is allowed

While a caucus requires in person attendance, a primary allows for absentee ballots. Orthodox Jews who wish to vote will be unable to vote in person at a caucus on Shabbat while they can send in their absentee ballot for a primary held on Shabbat.

[restorefreedom]

10. primaries have more leeway

there is all day voting as well as opportunities for absentee ballots. neither is available to caucusgoers. either you show up or you are SOL.

multimday voting and/or mail in ballots for everyone is really what is needed.

[Paulie]

5. More than Jews keep Shabbat.

This is the system we are playing in. The goal now is to convince even more people who don't follow it to turn out for Bernie.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

9. My mom was Jewish. My dad was a Christian.

I am farrrrrrrrrrr from an expert on Jewish law. It would be interesting to know what percentage of Jews are excluded from Saturday voting. I guess you could argue one is too many...

With the caveat I am not an expert on Jewish law I believe there are exceptions when a higher purpose than observance is involved. For instance, an Orthodox Jewish physician can perform life serving surgery on the Shabbat.


I also believe there are exemptions from the prohibition on non-kosher food when the alternatively is literally starving to death.

[Paulie]

11. The goal now is to work with what we got

If the system is exclusionary complaining about it a couple weeks before isn't going to be successful. Getting more people who have the time and ability to be at the caucus, as it stands is the important thing for Bernie.

[restorefreedom]

12. i would love to know if jews consider voting,

which many consider to be a civic duty, would be considered one of those greater good scenerios.

might be.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. I have no idea...

There are a lot of rituals surrounding the Shabbat.

[restorefreedom]

15. i did bit of googling

and i found the exception regarding the saving of a life, that you mentioned. but nothing yet about civic duty or anything of that nature.

i did find a reference to an orthodox jewish congressperson who cast votes on shabbat as long as they walked to do it. transportation might be part of the issue.

[thesquanderer]

16. re: transportation

Yes, transportation is an issue. As I understand it, observant Jews cannot operate a device (i.e. drive) on the Sabbath. They may be allowed to have someone drive them somewhere, however they are also not supposed to engage in financial transactions, so that precludes most public transit or any other form of transportation you would have to pay for.

So getting back to the topic at hand, for some observant Jews, their ability to caucus in Nevada may depend on whether the caucus location is within walking distance.

[restorefreedom]

17. thanks for the info

i am sure some are within walking distance, but my guess is that most, while close, are probably more than a mile or two from their caucus place, just out of reasonable walking distance

[John Poet]

6. State parties decide what kind of 'caucus' they want to have...

The last time Michigan Democrats used a 'caucus' in 2004, we were even able to mail in our ballots. It wasn't like Iowa or Nevada where you had to be there, although polling stations were open for in-person votes throughout the day. Yep, that was always a Saturday too, the years we had them.

It really was only called a 'caucus' because the party rather than the state was running the election. More of a "firehouse primary". Polling places were greatly reduced and usually different from those of a state election.

[restorefreedom]

7. i am happy to agree with you, dsb, and rec this post

also, seventh day adventists are also unable to participate on saturdays, i just learned.

i also agree that caucuses are not workable anymore. they have a number of inherent problems.

as to this particular caucus, unfortunately, with a history making jewish candidate on the ballot, and the 76,000 jews in nevada (not all strictly observant of course), this particular date could be a problem for bernie's support in a state that might be quite close.

in general, they are probably not favorable to a particular candidate in most elections, however. some serious drilling down on surveys about people who are homebound, infirm, or work a lot of hours and their political views would have to be done before any educated guesses could be made.

[Matariki]

18. Having only a single day to caucus is disenfranchising

No matter what day of the week it is.

There will always be people who have to work at any given time, hospitals have to stay open, stores stay open, colleges stay open, airports stay open, etc etc

All the people who keep those places open are shut out of this phase of the election.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. When you think about it , the caucus is an elitist and exclusionary institution.

[Beacool]

19. I despise caucuses.

Archaic and not democratic in this era.

As for the Saturday issue, I can't recall, has it always taken place on a Saturday? Have Jewish groups filed a complaint about the choice of day?

[kiva]

23. This is one of the reasons I hate caucuses.

I'm in Nevada, our caucus is on a Saturday. Ask yourself, who generally works on Saturdays? That would mostly be blue collar folks. So in addition to people with religious issues, people who are housebound because of an illness and people who are out of town for the day, add many working class people to the list of disenfranchised.

In 2008 I saw at least a dozen people leave my caucus location because it was dragging on (disorganization) and they had to get to work. A few more left because their kids were getting bored and loud (again, after a couple of hours not a surprise).

I regard caucuses as one of the most undemocratic part of the voting process (the electoral college is my #1 peeve).

[Nevada Blue]

24. it's terrible here in NV b/c

this is a freaking service economy.

I have friends who work in casinos who cannot caucus because they have to work. Same with health care professionals.

Caucus excludes all but the rich, the retired, the 9-5'ers, and the young. In Nevada that's a big excluded chunk.

It's a terrible system and directly conflicts with the one person, one vote concept.

[Kip Humphrey]

26. Doe anyone know how this happened? How Saturday was chosen for the caucus? Was it a state party or

DNC decision? Or was it a state legislature initiative to promote voter turnout perhaps?

[TheFarseer]

27. my state went to caucus

because they wanted to be cool and important. Now we have to drag a 20 month old to a caucus if we both want to vote. Awesome

[wildeyed]

28. Let's just say

that having a caucus, period, isn't a great idea. The Saturday part is just icing on the suck.