2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum[VIDEO] Sanders commits to giving 1 trillion dollars to needy communities of color
This is what it looks like when a candidate reaches out to the Black community without politicizing it, without bragging about it, without EMPLOYING it as a message to say "Hey! Look at what I did!"
Note the handheld video by an audience member and the bad audio. Because he is the real thing.
Executive Director Anthony Newby of Neighborhoods Organizing for Change asked Bernie Sanders if he was willing to commit 200 billion dollars to underserved communities. Sanders said he would invest a trillion dollars over the course of five years to underserved communities.
loyalsister
(13,390 posts)His responses to the rest of the questions from that forum are outstanding!
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 11, 2016, 07:59 AM - Edit history (1)
Bernie's apparent attempt to "buy" the youth vote with shoot-the-moon promises of free four-year college tuition for everyone?
Suddenly, just whhen a state primary hinges for the first time on African-American voters, Bernie opens up a new grab-bag of promises for that community that ignore its priorities. Al Sharpton just this week urged SBS to prioritize federal legislating superceding voter ID and other restrictive new practices in 15 states. Researchers just have shown their substantially differential effects on turnout of POC vs whites, poor vs wealthier, and D vs R. Bernie should have met with and LISTENED TO urban Mayors and Al Sharpton starting YEARS ago, to develop proposals that meet THEIR needs rather than unaffordable priorities that ignore good research and constituent priorities.
Similarly, the White White House and HRC have an affordable $6-billion a year proposal to make community college free.
Most of the $6 b would go to poor working people, since most of the wealthy and upper middle extend the adolescence of their offspring by boarding them at 4-year schools the output of struggling urban public schools cannot gain admission to.
Doing free CC, but not free 4 YC, would be the 21st Century equivalent of making high school free decades ago.
The Harvard economic historian Claudia Goldin has showed how that effort was a highly cost-effective way to spur economic growth by allowing human capital to keep up with technological progress in industry. But here comes Bernie again, ignoring all the subtleties of policy to "buy" a large voting block.
But IMO Bernie's new grab bag for POC will prove an EPIC FAIL. POC are not nearly so naive about pols as well-off white millenials.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)He could have at least gotten a professional cameraman and a better sound setup.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... Hispanics in America.
I thought the same about dean today, he would have kicked much ass if he came out of VT and got involved in some non VT like causes... just one or two on the national scene to get a name among PoC (black AND Hispanic) and then ran for president
Dems would've dominated ... sigh
jehop61
(1,735 posts)pandering to me. Where is that trillion coming from? How will he get any legislation through a very divisive congress? How come he hasn't introduced any legislation in the past that benefits people of color?
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 11, 2016, 09:22 AM - Edit history (1)
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)That was the adjective I was trying to recall for the last phrase of my post number 2 above. I could think only of ajectives that would have triggered an alert.
I really hope against hope Bernie will be asked a "cynical pol" question at tonight's debate in Milwaukee
UglyGreed
(7,661 posts)From fighting segregation to standing against police violence.
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/20-examples-bernie-sanders-powerful-record-civil-and-human-rights-1950s
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)They should all just demand votes without promising anything in return!
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)We can't afford to invest in people.
In reality, this will create an economic boom.
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)activists like Al Sharpton, combined with the ideas of smart, reliable researchers. For example, Al Sharpton's prioritizing of federal action to supersede stat Voter iD laws is supported by great recent UCSD research on the impact of such legislation on voter turnout by race, income, and party affilition. And the priorities of Democratc mayors and governors is reflected in President Obama's budget summary at https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2016/02/09/fact-sheet-presidents-fiscal-year-2017-budget-overview .
Compare the vague proposals Bernie spends most of his airtime on. Except for increasing the minimum wage, they are not the most urgently-needed priorities of accountable state and local level officials. Rather they seem to me like a cynical pol's calculated attempt to "buy" votes with money he'd never get even if he does win a few more delegates.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... in a blatant attempt to buy and then get into office and say "oops, I tried"
Naw... that's alright... I'm not buying what he's selling
blackspade
(10,056 posts)Lovely.
And nice jab at Millenials at the end there, the first generation to be poorer, sicker, and more in debt than their parents.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)You do know the moon landing was real, don't you?
We actually CAN do 'shoot the moon' things when we actually try to.
(ETA and what does Bernie pursuing his own polices remind me of... Oh, right, Obama going off after 'affordable health care' when the rest of the country was actually crying out for him for help in getting jobs and better pay. But I'm sure you castigated him for not listening to the country and instead going after his own 'shoot the moon' ideas.)
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)And 'Free stuff!'
Run with that meme....
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)that in both Iowa and New Hampshire there were more Repubs voting than Dems? Not a good omen for the Congress we'll have in 2017.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)President not only do not "get things through congress", they don't even propose legislation as a matter of fact.
They are part of the executive branch so will you bring up this question for every thing a presidential candidate says or just for Bernie.
Hang on while I dig up the appropriate episode of Schoolhouse Rock for you.
Perogie
(687 posts)then goes to congress for approval.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)for legislation that he's going to propose.
Now it turns out that he can't even propose legislation????
OMG. When did that happen?
Or is it your fear that he won't be able to find a single member of Congress to introduce it for him? Much less a majority of people in Congress to vote to approve it? Golly, that would be really, really bad. But you're voting for him anyway?
The First President ever who couldn't write or propose legislation -- or even find a single legislator to submit it for him. Okie-dokie. Your call.
It's sure lucky you kept that copy of Schoolhouse Rock, to clarify everything for us.
You better tell the US Consulate while you're at it because they've got it all wrong.
If the President vetoes a bill, it will most likely never become a law. Congress can override a veto, but to do so two-thirds of the Members of Congress must vote against the President. Despite all of his power, the President cannot write bills. He can propose a bill, but a member of Congress must submit it for him.
www.usconsulate.org.hk/pas/kids/ex_president.htm
You better tell Lexis-Nexis, too, because they've got it all wrong. In fact, they think ANYONE can write a bill, even the President.
Legislation can be written by anyone, but only a Member of Congress can introduce a bill (or "measure" for consideration. The actual text of proposed bills frequently is drafted by legislative aides working either for members of Congress or for congressional committees. Occasionally you will encounter the same piece of legislation being introduced as a companion bill in both Chambers.
The President can propose a bill, and even send Congress a Presidential message urging its enactment into law, but he cannot introduce it. The President usually sends draft legislation to Congress with a letter or other explanatory material discussing his reasons for submitting the legislation. Sometimes the House will order a Presidential bill and its explanatory material to be printed as an official House Document.
http://www.lexisnexis.com/help/cu/The_Legislative_Process/Stage_1.htm
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)Last edited Thu Feb 11, 2016, 09:01 AM - Edit history (1)
... why just now!?
Come on Sanders, I'll be Sanders CLOSE black friend...
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)He is, on camera, in front of an audience making a sincere commitment to restoring desperately needed money to needy communities and your response is "Why didn't he do it earlier?"
So let me get this straight... if he offers no proposals or commits nothing or doesn't engage with Black people, he is ignoring their needs and doesn't care about them.
But if he does engage, answers questions in small church gatherings, shows a commitment to helping if he becomes President, then he is pandering.
I hope you know how unreasonable and contorted your positions are.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... people, like me, in an AA forum where these things can be discussed?
Go to the AA forum and ask and you'll get a more rounded answer
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)than people I don't know.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)What the agenda actually is, I don't know, but attempting to reason with some is futile.
polly7
(20,582 posts)Nothing he has ever said or done in the past or wants to do in the future will be good enough for those who think they speak for all of the disenfranchised and in so many cases, impoverished. Nobody is saying all or even most POC are in these groups, but many are and they deserve to have their needs met with realistic solutions. Not lip-service and amnesia when it comes to what helped make it all worse.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)polly7
(20,582 posts)He's argued for years about those issues he's passionate about ...... I've seen the videos. I don't think for a second he won't be able to convince people and change minds.
But ....... the 'people' are those here I was referring to.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)After what they did to Barack Obama, who was also well-liked? So, Obama's problem was that his legislation wasn't socialist enough to get any votes from the R's?
polly7
(20,582 posts)Meanwhile, people suffer. DON'T TRY ANYTHING. Got it.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)that don't have a chance.
But, in your opinion, the bigger the empty promises, the better?
polly7
(20,582 posts)He's truthful, smart and passionate about the issues and has studied them carefully. As have others whose opinions have been posted here who agree with him on them. Dismissing his proposals so easily as 'empty promises' is lazy, insulting to every single person who could benefit from them, and shows your agenda ........... perfectly. Crazy-making bullshit.
How does this help? Really? It just seems so. It just raises my hackles and makes me do the side mouth. Like, ok. Mmm hmm. Sure. There must be endless bounty in the coffers of his administration. How. Does. He. Get. Any. Of. This. Done. I remain skeptical and I am sincere.
I dislike wild promises and tales of future glory and gold. How? And revolution? Sigh. Sounds exhausting. The gerrymander just makes my eyes glaze. How?
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Better start advocating for what you think is important.
Because although it seems like a candidate giving out a few part-time positions in a campaign is enough to win you over, realistically that's like just a few dozen people. Not really gonna do all that much.
Nah, Sanders won't be investing in a ME war like Hillary, so I figure a trillion dollars on infrastructure is peanuts.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)This all sounds lovely but I am a skeptic. Perhaps that why I am an atheist. I love evidence. Tgings I can come up with contingencies for and be assured it has a chance. I also never ever gamble. Not for money. I actually have no idea why people bet on things and do longshots because for most it ends badly. This is like betting on something unfeasible.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Yeah, that's shit.
But he begged, cajoled and warned against Iraq the mother of all fuck ups. The one that Hillary pushed like a drug dealer at a heroin convention.
You're a skeptic? You seem to chew up Hillary's crap pretty good for a skeptic.
I love skeptics, but a sure thing that sucks is still sucky.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I cannot suspend my disbelief. He said he will continue using drones, correct? How will he actually get around all the republicans and most of the democrats to end the spending on war to get this money? How? One can say the will do something but how needs to be discussed at length.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)No One seems to get that.
I know what she will be like. Don't know him.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Is it that old magic wand thing again?
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Perogie
(687 posts)he hasn't been running for president since 2006. 7 months ago he was just starting his run.
Sanders has a 100% rating with NAACP. He didn't get that by ignoring PoC.
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... the facts when it comes to their relationship is well known.
Sanders rating with the NAACP doesn't equate to a well established relationship where if not trust... then at least we know what we're getting is established.
DhhD
(4,695 posts)living, in the 1990s? Two years of rent and food stamp benefits for poor children. Bankruptcy to fit the business communities? Setting up private prisons instead:
http://www.dunwalke.com/10_Clinton_Administration.htm
How much did privatizer profiteers make over the last 20 years off the free labor of members of poor Americans? Seems like society owes back that trillion dollars over 5 years.
Where is Sanders going to get the money? By asking communities members to vote to seat a new Congress. About half of Congressional members should be facing a Town Hall audience and votes in a 5 year period. By six years every member of Congress will be Primaried and assigned responsibility to return to working for the People.
There is an election every 2 years. It is the responsibility of We the People, to start flushing the turds.
That word, responsibility keeps coming up. When did your community invite Sanders to help with returning the American Dream to all Americans?
uponit7771
(90,347 posts)... blacks churches and community centers and to moms and dads and to just black and Hispanic people.
They started NEAR the bottom now they here... they just didn't come around when it was time to get a vote
When you have relationship with someone you don't have to come a runnin promising the farm that in all likely hood has a slim chance in hell of being delivered.
How is this not a cynical attempt at purchasing a vote!?
That word, responsibility keeps coming up. When did your community invite Sanders to help with returning the American Dream to all Americans?
How in the world do you think this is not offensive?
The Clinton's didn't need an invitation practically they just came and spoke and visited... Sanders could have done the same thing MONTHS ago with the eye that he wanted to get to know folk not just have a couple of guys who have said some of the most vile racialized things about Obama hanging around him for proxy cred...
Sanders has a couple of weeks.... we'll see
polly7
(20,582 posts)firebrand80
(2,760 posts)uponit7771
(90,347 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Beat me to it, and better.
bravenak
(34,648 posts)I have plans to take it to the street.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)You're worth way more than that!
bravenak
(34,648 posts)Paul Ryan
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)Tarc
(10,476 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Bonobo
(29,257 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)I enjoy this so much, thank you.
It will make no one skeptical at all.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)Tarc
(10,476 posts)This is like every bad stereotype of the Democratic Party, and I wouldn't be surprised if this video becomes fodder for one of the GOP candidates' ads now.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)I do think he has stalled explaining *in practical terms* how he could get these tax increases to pay for anything, and avoiding that has helped him. I am afraid it is what would kill him in the general.
ericson00
(2,707 posts)it doesn't work like that! You gotta get people out of the vicious cycle of poverty, not just throw other people's money at it!
LexVegas
(6,067 posts)ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)The White White House and HRC have an affordable $6-billion a year proposal to make community college free.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/01/09/fact-sheet-white-house-unveils-america-s-college-promise-proposal-tuitio
Though the proposal is not limited by family income, the vast majority of the $6 billion would go to poor working people, since most of the wealthy and upper middle extend the adolescence of their offspring by boarding them at 4-year schools to which the output of struggling urban public schools cannot readily gain admission.
Doing free CC, but not free 4 YC, would be the 21st Century equivalent of making high school free decades ago.
The Harvard economic historian Claudia Goldin has showed how that effort was a highly cost-effective way to spur economic growth by allowing human capital to keep up with technological progress in industry. But here comes Bernie again, ignoring all the subtleties of policy to "buy" a large voting block.
Look at the numbers
The Atlantic says, at
http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/01/the-genius-of-obamas-two-year-college-proposal/384429/
wealthy students outnumber poor students at the most selective four-year colleges by 14 to one, while community colleges educate twice as many low-income students as high-income students
And costs per year at 4-year public colleges average twice what they are at community colleges:
The annual tuition at public community colleges is $3,260, less than half the $8,890 average in-state tuition at public four- year institutions. Obamas initiative would reduce community-college tuition costs to zero for students across the economic spectruma plan that would cost the federal government $60 billion over 10 years.
These figures are just for tuition, not including unaffordable room, board, and transportation back home costs for poor students. Community college students are unlikely to go to school away from home and thus do not incur those costs.
IMO, Bernies proposal for free tuition for four year colleges is unaffordable, would increase income inequality, and just doesnt add up. Why isnt anyone calling him out on his apparent cynical effort to buy well-off white millennial votes with tax money Congress never will appropriate?
Please respond to this post in its own thread at
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511201335