The "Bernie has a problem with black people" stuff

[Kurska]

is a cynical attempt to use identity politics to maintain a profitable status quo for the elites of this country through a divide and conquer strategy. They'll happy pit white against black and black against white if it means they can keep hoarding the wealth.

It is a political meme, not a valid concern. The best thing possible for disenfranchised and economically disempowered minority communities is a Sanders presidency. These communities, more than any other, need the radical economic change of Sanders. Not the status quo of someone who made hundreds of thousands giving fluff speeches to the giant banks that destroyed their already damaged economic situations through sub-prime predatory lending. This is merely an attempt to use identity politics to get people to vote against their own self-interest (just like the republican party has been using Christianity to get poor white people to vote against theirs).

I see right through you.

[Betty Karlson]

1. K&R for truth.

[Bonobo]

2. When you're right, you're right. nt

[Gothmog]

93. There are good reasons why Sanders is not appealing to African American and other voters

There are good reasons why the demographics are not working for Sanders and why many voters including some African American voters are not supporting Sanders. Demographics are important in that this explains one of the big divides between Sanders supporters and Clinton supporters. There is a vast difference in how Sanders supporters and Sanders view President Obama and how other Democrats view President Obama. I admit that I am impressed with the amount accomplished by President Obama in face of the stiff GOP opposition to every one of his proposals and I personally believe that President Obama has been a great President. It seems that this view colors who I am supporting in the primary http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-sanders-obama_us_56aa378de4b05e4e3703753a?utm_hp_ref=politics

But lurking behind this argument about the future is a dispute that's really about the past. It’s a debate over what Obama accomplished in office -- in particular, how significant those accomplishments really are. And it's been simmering on the left for most of the last seven years.

On one side of this divide are activists and intellectuals who are ambivalent, disappointed or flat-out frustrated with what Obama has gotten done. They acknowledge what they consider modest achievements -- like helping some of the uninsured and preventing the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression. But they are convinced that the president could have accomplished much more if only he’d fought harder for his agenda and been less quick to compromise.

They dwell on the opportunities missed, like the lack of a public option in health care reform or the failure to break up the big banks. They want those things now -- and more. In Sanders, they are hearing a candidate who thinks the same way.

On the other side are partisans and thinkers who consider Obama's achievements substantial, even historic. They acknowledge that his victories were partial and his legislation flawed. This group recognizes that there are still millions of people struggling to find good jobs or pay their medical bills, and that the planet is still on a path to catastrophically high temperatures. But they see in the last seven years major advances in the liberal crusade to bolster economic security for the poor and middle class. They think the progress on climate change is real, and likely to beget more in the future.

It seems that many of the Sanders supporters hold a different view of President Obama which is also a leading reason why Sanders is not exciting African American voters. Again, it may be difficult for Sanders to appeal to African American voters when one of the premises of his campaign is that Sanders does not think that President Obama is a progressive or a good POTUS.

Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I do not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. There are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (myself included) and many African American Democratic voters are not supporting Sanders.

I understand why Sanders supporters dislike talking about demographics but the fact remain that Sanders supporters tend to not like President Obama and that dislike affects the amount of support that Sanders is getting from certain demographic groups.

[Bonobo]

94. Spamming the same undigested shit is boring, dude. nt

[Gothmog]

95. Denial is not just a river in Africa

[Bonobo]

97. Wow, is it like repeat crusty old phrase night and nobody fucking even told me? nt

[Gothmog]

98. Please keep on using Prof. West as Sanders main surrogate in South Carolina

[Bonobo]

99. Do you have me confused with someone else, dude? nt

[LondonReign2]

100. As a Sanders supporter, I think this is accurate

There is a very strong psychological element here -- essentially, if you don't like our President, then we don't like you-- that is probably much stronger than the intellectual argument --essentially, which candidate's policies, both historically and prospectively, are better for the community.

And, given that Clinton is far better known that Sanders, it will be an enormous uphill battle in the primaries for Sanders to break through the psychological barrier to convince voters that he is the better alternative. The mere fact that Sanders is calling for radical change implies we need to move on from the Obama policies; if one is highly favorable towards the President, then the status quo candidate will look like the right choice.

[dchill]

3. +1

[Smarmie Doofus]

4. Largely true. Keeps the peasants fighting w. each other over nonsense.

And... as w. religion... the battle draws out some truly *damaged* personalities.

Wow.

[bettyellen]

19. I'm glad to report- the peasants are outbreeding us establishment people!

they will have their revolution- will not happen overnight, however.

[Smarmie Doofus]

30. There ya go! Thanx. nt

[PatrickforO]

5. Exactly. And what's so delicious about this meme in a Rovian sense is

that it is so easy. All you have to do is throw it out there and watch it flame. There's a small cadre of people who, much like cats chasing a laser pointer, simply cannot resist getting themselves all worked up.

And there is an even smaller cadre of people who are either getting paid to knowingly (or not getting paid and doing it unknowingly, which is worse, I suppose) to act as establishment surrogates and churn it out. On this site, this is a powerful, yet compact little group. You will also notice the exquisite timing of this group. We don't hear from them for some time, and then all of a sudden they all seem to come out at once, which causes me and apparently others to suspect they are acting as knowing shills of the establishment.

Cynically, I cannot help but wonder what the payoff is for them. Because if they think the establishment candidate(s) are going to genuinely show appreciation in the form of policy...well, I have an imaginary bridge for sale! It's in a swamp...

[bettyellen]

9. are those the people paid by Repukes to sow hatred of 99% of the Dems and suppress the vote?

because I think there is a huge infestation of those here. manny people have tried to pull that shit the last couple of years.

[PatrickforO]

27. I don't know about HUGE.

But yeah, I do believe that a couple of people in this small, compact group I mentioned are either paid, or are high enough in the Democratic establishment to be offered some sort of payoff. But then, I lived through the 2008 primary season and saw exactly what kind of campaigner, leader and person Clinton actually is. She plays dirty and will say or do anything to get elected. Absolutely.

Sadly, she's just so flawed but she wants it so BAD. It ain't gonna happen. She can't win a general election, and if she did would be a disaster because the leadership isn't there. Oh, the wonkiness is. She's very intelligent and well versed on issues. But she is WAY too beholden to Wall Street and the MIC and she just isn't a leader. I mean, watch her campaign staff now that they've put out that 4 page memo. The Clintons are beginning to blame their staffers for the 'direction' and 'message.' This is a precursor to firing a bunch of people and replacing them with others. But once the new people are hired, HRC will once again allow factions to form and play them against each other then blame them as her campaign self destructs.

[bettyellen]

33. where did you see behind the scenes Hillary?

[PatrickforO]

81. Just saw it yesterday. Got a call from NARAL, which of course endorsed Clinton.

The caller asked me if I'm going to caucus and I said yes, I'm going to caucus for Bernie. He then went down a script about how much Clinton supports women's rights and asked me to change my vote. I guess that's fair, but I'm on lists as a strong Bernie supporter.

As to the rest, I'm reading between the lines mostly, and hearing the rhetoric from the 'other' side. Clinton has a lot of surrogates on here. One, who shall remain nameless but has a vanity license plate with her handle here printed on it is a Democratic party bigwig in IA. She didn't send party people to 90 of the precincts, thus opening the way for Clinton volunteers to do weird shit, like having people leave early or go out and stand in the parking lot. Basically, lots of shady shit went on in IA the other day. But, to be fair, Obama pulled that same shady shit on Clinton in 08 so I guess they thought it was OK.

But, yeah, the Dem establishment eats its children. No doubt there.

[bettyellen]

83. What did the vote recounts show? She told 90 volunteers to stay home?

Or did they not have enough people show up?

[jeff47]

103. There has been no recount.

A small number of errors have been pointed out to the party, and they have made a few changes.

There has not been anything like a statewide recount.

[bettyellen]

104. a statewide recount? It was always 90 precincts I thought, so was asking about

those. I thought I had heard it moved the needle slightly?

[jeff47]

105. IIRC, there have been 5 precincts that have been changed, out of 14 reported errors.

There has been no recount or other review of anywhere near 90 precincts, much less statewide.

[bettyellen]

106. still curious about the allegations made above.

Bernie was having his people check their own numbers, so if they found significant issues, we'd here of it.

[lovemydog]

45. They heap scorn on nearly all

democrats and progressives. Manny take part in that firing squad. I tend to see it as trolling to suppress the vote by turning progressives against one another.

[bettyellen]

53. Yep, manny people here were duped into aping that snarky position- where only

former Independents or ex-Republicans could possibly be good Dem candidates. Up is down, is actually sideways- and context is verboten!

[lovemydog]

61. Also interesting that

they're always advocating for others to vote for or against someone. And rarely talk about anything else like history or whatever. Do you remember when Rush Limbaugh tried to get republicans & independents to vote democratic in open primaries? I don't remember exactly what he said. I think he tried getting them to act like pumas, to mess with democrats.

[bettyellen]

63. yeah, I had actually seen quite a few people here admit to voting in Republican primaries....

"just to screw with people". When people tell you what they do- believe it.
Unless they have multiple characters and speak of themselves in the third person, those people are full of it.

[daleanime]

25. It's simply human nature.....

People tend to see what they are looking for.

[bettyellen]

6. So you think that POC don't know their candidates?And that this hasn't been posted daily for months?

Well go on over to the AA forum and let them know their concerns aren't valid but yours are!

[bravenak]

11. My oh my this is sad

[bettyellen]

12. maybe he doesn't know this has been cut and pasted here a few hundred times?

LOL.

[bravenak]

13. Hee hee!!

[bettyellen]

14. I'm laughing so hard!

[bravenak]

17. Things making me laugh:

People who just discovered how superdelegates work
Black voters that say stuff
GDP
MALCOLM X quotes
Gwheezie's post
Betsuni
The Charles Blow thread
Superdelegates

[bettyellen]

24. I has a pretty politically savvy friend blow a gasket over the super-Ds on FB, LOL.

He has that "Hillary reminds me of not fun women" blindness, and has forgotten a ton of what he once knew.
The hate has made him a bit stupid- and very prone to conspiracy theories. I tell him every time we party- no chemtrails, no Hilary tirades, you're acting like a fool!

[bravenak]

36. Chemtrails TOO?

I have a cousin who swears about the chemtrails and something something government planes, gmo, and wheat products.

[bettyellen]

47. I know, embarrassing. We were playing cards and pretty high and he and another person brought

up Vince Foster and I went OFF on him. Said I could not be seen in public with people who spew such foolish and cruel shit for sport. Idiotic CTs like that are poison. We don't need to be contributing to the dumbing down of the electorate- we already have people in the doorway of their polling place playing rock paper scissors to decide between Trump and Sanders! It is madness.

[bravenak]

51. I refuse to discuss it too

She gets worse every year

[bettyellen]

56. I'm like, some idiot is going to overhear you and believe your dumbs CTs.

[bravenak]

57. Or she will get me arrested be ause of her incessant use of the word BOMB

[msanthrope]

16. Aren't you glad we got today's "This is your valid concern" post

in by 4am EST?

Just in case you were thinking of having another valid concern, or discussing it....

[bravenak]

21. Stop!!! This.

And the fact that I should have invested in the bus manufacturing industry is all I can take!
Billions. I could have BILLIONS!

One told me what my concerns are and will brook no disagreement! My goodness.

[msanthrope]

28. No...it's "concerns." You don't have concerns.

Because they haven't been adequately explained.

And oligarchy.

[bravenak]

32. You get free college for that!

[msanthrope]

41. That's so fucking awesome. ....free college for kids who survive their shitty schools!

That way, we can have even more of the intelligentsia telling other people how to live.

[bravenak]

42. Hey! They kids might fail out and end up on the streets but...

Our new welfare state will take care of all of that!!!

[msanthrope]

48. Well, as long as the economic concerns of the middle class

white man are addressed, you know.....

[bravenak]

52. You know how impoertant that is to me. My first priority

[bettyellen]

64. He will come and make sure our boats get their holes fixed- right?

Because there are holes. And he talks over me when I say that.

[bravenak]

66. And those without boats are doing their part by shushing with all that drowning nonsense

[bettyellen]

67. *glub glub* air bubbles *glub glub* did someone say drown the establishment in a tub, so....

all the little toy boats will rise?
Oh fuck- my boat is made of lead. I am soaking in it. Damn it.

[bettyellen]

65. We weren't discussing Hillary so please do not attempt to derail the convo- thanks.

[bettyellen]

72. Not with any of us you aren't. TL:DR- BYE BYE!

[bettyellen]

76. this isn't the JoeyKnight group either!

[msanthrope]

68. Not sure what the OP has to do with HRC. nt

[bettyellen]

70. Unless she starred in Groundhog Day, I fail to see a connection!

There is some serious Groundhog Day action going on here.

[bettyellen]

77. I'm wondering why the OP said tactics are POC- did that make any sense to you?

[msanthrope]

78. No, could be PWI. nt

[bettyellen]

79. Yeah, he thought I changed the subject to race, LOL.... nt

[uponit7771]

90. lol!!! excellent point...

[Kurska]

20. I know basic divide and conquer when I see it.

It is a weaponization of identity politics to keep the plebs fighting while the elites lord over us.

I've yet to see the "concerns" be adequately explained. It is mostly some vague hand waving about tone or not having paid the proper respects to the community power brokers. Sanders has consistently been the most social justice oriented Senator for years, this tactic is classic rovian attack them where they are strong tripe.

[msanthrope]

22. Do you not perceive the utter condescension in your claim that

that racial concerns have not been adequately explained to you?

[Kurska]

26. No "racial concerns" about Bernie Sanders have not been adequately explained to me.

Name one policy position of Bernie Sanders on social justice that puts him to the right of Hillary Clinton.

[msanthrope]

35. Okay.....is it that you simply do not get the point I am making to you?

There is an entire AA forum here. Perhaps you could go over there, read a few threads, think about the concerns expressed...and listen. I mean, it doesn't take long before most people get hit with the clue-by-four if they just listen.

Perhaps then, you will understand the "concerns" you mock and the utter arrogance of demanding an explanation for what you aren't listening to, anyway.

[Kurska]

38. Name a policy position

Hell, name a lot.

If it is such a massive huge terrible thing on Sanders, this shouldn't be that hard.

As a gay man, I have a huge gripe with most Republicans.

-Don't want me to be able to get married
-Often want to throw me in jail
-Want me to be hidden in society
-Want to be able to fire me for who I am

Took me all of five seconds.

So whats the equivalent for Sanders?

[msanthrope]

46. Again....you really aren't getting my point. If you think Black people

on this board have "concerns" it's pretty apparent you've spent no time in the AA forum actually talking to them.

What I am suggesting to you is that stance is a poor representation of the Sander's campaign.

[Kurska]

49. Just keep on dancing

You'll think of one eventually.

[bettyellen]

60. And you'll obvs think that this "tactic" -demanding answers- is a brilliant one, I gather?

[msanthrope]

62. My suggestion that you actually talk to Black people before telling

them what their concerns are seems to have fallen on deaf ears.

[lunasun]

87. +1 !! exactly. Say it

[bettyellen]

37. I see, so the people who have concerns have an "inadequate" way of explaining them.

Last edited Thu Feb 11, 2016, 06:09 AM - Edit history (1)

Do go on, please.

[uponit7771]

91. Do you think this post could be offensive? Seeing that there's an AA group you could've asked by now

... on DU?

tia

[JI7]

7. how about Jewish people who are supporting Clinton ?

[Kurska]

8. I don't understand what you mean.

People have a right to support whoever they want.

I'm talking about tactics employed to get support.

[bettyellen]

15. I think he is asking if their judgment is as off as you deem POC's to be?

Fair enough question.

[Kurska]

23. Ahh yes, pivot this to be about all POC when I was talking about a tactic.

A political strategy to try to do something, but the more you can make it about two different groups of people the more contentious it can be.

Identity politics at the most base and disruptive.

[bettyellen]

29. Pivot? "Black" is in your OP, buddy. How dare you pretend otherwise?

You want to pretend we are not discussing real members here at DU now? Because you are.

[Kurska]

34. This didn't come about on DU

It was drummed up at some strategy meeting with highly paid political consultants and launched by paid surrogates of the Clinton campaign.

People already favorable to Clinton surely picked up the meme, but I don't think they have any ill will outside of supporting a politician I don't.

[bettyellen]

40. You do realize you are talking about black voters in their presence here- right?

Last edited Thu Feb 11, 2016, 05:59 AM - Edit history (1)

Or did you think this was more a lecturing them type situation?

[Kurska]

54. Political tactics does not equal all POC

Attempts to equate the two are just more examples of identity politics run wild.

[bettyellen]

58. Hmm, tactics are things, and POC are people, so none of course are equal.

You might want to try and reword that so it makes sense?

Or not, we are all here very well versed in the (not at all new) theory you are trying to present.
I understand it despite this "tactics are soylent green" moment you just had. Tactics are never people.
Good luck with your studies!

[lovemydog]

55. I missed the memo.

But if you want to keep believing that conspiracy theory you're welcome to. Or you could google some articles. Or read other forums here. Or not. It's up to you. Right now it just seems like you're mad about something so brazen as people having differences of opinion with you during primary season.

[msanthrope]

18. Would you make the same argument to Jewish people that

you've just made to PoCs?

[JI7]

39. are jewish people supporting clinton voting against their self interest ?

[Kurska]

43. I don't think voting for Clinton over Sanders is in anyone's self-interest.

So yes. But the more disenfranchised and economically disempowered the community, the more it is against their self-interest to vote for Clinton.

[mgmaggiemg]

10. what do you find empowering

economically or otherwise about gun violence....bernie could have said...we are going to take the billions of tax payer money every year currently being spent on state sponsored gun violence and put it toward housing, healthcare and education...but he did not has not...instead he's rolled over for the gun manufacturers....closing off an option to pay for education and health care...why?

[AZ Progressive]

31. +1 Identity Politics should not be manipulated to defend the 1% Establishment

The Establishment is being just like the Republicans.

[bettyellen]

73. Please give an example- of politics being manipulated?

[fun n serious]

44. That's not true. No one says Bernie has a problem with Black people stuff.

Hillary has built a report over many years. That's all. Why didn't Bernie?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

89. 2 things.

1) 'rapport'.
2) Bernie didn't spend decades prepping his resume specifically to win the White House. He was busy actually working for the people.

[fun n serious]

107. what did he do?

Can you list any "revolutionary" changes he was responsible for?

[Recursion]

50. Even here you get it backwards. Nobody says Sanders has a problem with black people

People point out that many black people (a majority of them) seem to have a problem (for some value of "problem&quot with Sanders. That doesn't go away even if Clinton were to drop out.

[bettyellen]

69. It's a new "tactic" everyone is talking about! (to POC)

[MFM008]

80. i guess we will see

in SC. and beyond.

[mhatrw]

82. How dare you express your opinion on this!

As everyone for Jesse Jackson to Al Sharpton to Barack Obama to Sister Souljah knows, PoC only prosper when governed by those who use them and then betray them according to their own personal political benefit calculus.

[barbtries]

84. this is the best explication of the phenomenon i have seen.

reflects a lot of cynicism and anyone who engages should stop and really think about it. I work with a black man and he is on fire for Bernie and yesterday he told me part of the reason why: after the Charleston murders, Bernie was interviewed and what he said which i cannot recall verbatim was that racism runs very deep in this country. For my friend Bernie was the only one who said it out loud. He loves him and not in spite of being black, but because he is black and perceives Bernie to be the only candidate willing to talk about the systemic and very present problem of racism.

[sahel]

85. Its only a meme if you dont shut up about it

anyway, he seems to be making progress with the Black establishment. Sharpton, for one, has indicated his endorsement is up for grabs:-

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/02/al-sharpton-hillary-clinton-african-american-votes-219106

Jesse Jackson has dabbled but seems to be wanting to sit it out at this stage, although he probably hedging his bets a bit on who will be the winning horse. Its worth noting that Sanders endorsed Jackson for president in both of his campaigns:-

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/267124-jesse-jackson-not-planning-to-endorse-in-democratic-primary

[Skinner]

86. Would you prefer that people tell you Bernie Sanders is doing just fine with African Americans? (nt)

[lunasun]

88. The "Bernie voter has a problem / concern with black people" stuff

I see right through you.

[Odin2005]

92. I just had a Hillary supporter tell me that blacks and poor whites could never...

...be in the same coalition.

Divisive crap.

[Iggy Knorr]

96. K&R

[Jarqui]

101. I agree with the top post

There's ugly, false stuff being floated about Bernie

Sanders work for civil rights over 50 years and his record
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1195818

videos on Sanders & MLK in 2013
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1280&pid=115733

Bernie Sanders on the Obama Presidency
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1198034

Response to Sanders v Obama
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1199577