The Democratic Primary Score is BERNIE SANDERS: 36, HILLARY CLINTON 32 (anything else is baloney)

[CoffeeCat]

FACT: Bernie Sanders earned 21 delegates in Iowa; Hillary Clinton earned 23.

FACT: Bernie Sanders earned 15 delegates in New Hampshire; Hillary Clinton earned 9.

THUS FAR, DELEGATE TOTALS ARE:

**BERNIE SANDERS: 36
**HILLARY CLINTON: 32

Any inclusion of Superdelegates into the scores is irrelevant. Superdelegates always end up throwing their support to the candidate that has won the most delegates in the state primary contests.

Hillary Clinton had the vast majority of Superdelegates in her corner in 2008 too. The Superdelegates fell Obama's way after it became apparent that he would win. That's just what happens.

The Superdelegates will always follow the will of the Democratic voters. Anything suggested beyond that is silly spin.

Bernie is ahead by 4 delegates. PERIOD.

(post was updated to reflect up-to-date delegate counts on this site: http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/D-PU.phtml

http://www.startribune.com/n-h-primary-results-vote-totals-and-delegate-counts/368305001/

[senz]

1. Good news for the American people. Good news for democracy.

Beautiful!. Thank you, Coffee Cat!

[Matt_in_STL]

2. Anyone who believes the super delegates should overturn the will of the people

Should just stay home and let the nominee be selected for them.

[Maedhros]

3. The point of throwing in the Superdelegate numbers

is to reinforce the 'inevitability' meme.

Hillary's new campaign slogan should be "RESISTANCE IS FUTILE. YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED."

[frylock]

51. It's just pissing people off and strengthening their resolve.

This has to be the worst campaign ever. They couldn't run a worse campaign if they tried.

[Maedhros]

62. The "liberals" over in the Hillary Group are now pushing the idea that the superdelegates

are necessary to prevent un-Democratic interlopers (i.e. that nasty Bernie Sanders) from subverting the will of the Party.

I have a hard time treating such people with any kind of respect.

[nxylas]

70. You mean PARTY

It's always written in ALL CAPS in that thread , for some reason. Bernie may be the Democratic socialist in the race, but the people talking about the PARTY, the PARTY, the PARTY remind me of rather less benign forms of socialism.

[Maedhros]

71. They are nakedly arguing for top-down leadership

under which Party power-brokers decide who represents us, what is important to us, and ultimately how we vote.

I won't join such a Party.

[99th_Monkey]

4. Super-delegates are much like a string of pearls: if clutched too tightly ..

.. they will come unstrung and fall towards the pull of gravity.

[CoffeeCat]

14. I call them "vapor votes"...and I like your analogy too!

No pearl clutching in our primary, right?

I akin the Superdelegates to "vapor votes." You think you have them, but they can quickly evaporate if you don't win the state contests. So really, you never had them in the first place.

So bizarre to count what may not be yours in a few weeks, right?

[99th_Monkey]

18. Ha! Vapor votes. "Now where did I put those S-delegares again? .. they were right here ..

now they are gone, gone gone,, "

Bernie's campaign simply needs to give SDs a string of good reasons to switch over,
so they start feeling the Bern.

[Ligyron]

64. no matter what they say,

no matter what they do - gonna wind up in the middle of that rock n roll stew...

[jkbRN]

48. +100

[retrowire]

5. Exactly!

Whoop THERE IT IS!


WAIT: I thought Bernie earned 14 in NH? http://www.cbsnews.com/elections/2016/primaries/democrat/new-hampshire/

[Binkie The Clown]

6. If we disregard superdelegates AND coin tosses, Bernie has an even bigger lead. n/t

[mythology]

27. You do realize that the coin flips weren't for national delegates

And so aren't included in this count right? That has been known for a while now.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/wtf-happened-at-the-iowa-caucuses-explained-20160202

http://m.koat.com/politics/no-hillary-clinton-did-not-win-iowa-because-of-a-coin-flip/37786214

[Binkie The Clown]

32. I stand corrected.

It makes a better story the way I told it, but truth is more important in the end, isn't it. Thank you for keeping me honest.

[Alfresco]

7. Are you sure it's not 36 - 32?

http://www.thegreenpapers.com/P16/D-PU.phtml

[CoffeeCat]

15. I used the stats from the Minneapolis Tribune article--Will update.

which was timestamped at 10:39.

I'll add two more delegates onto Bernie's total!

Thank you.

[CentralMass]

8. Just in case. The vocabulary word of the day.

Usurp
[yoo-surp, -zurp]
verb (used with object)
1.
to seize and hold (a position, office, power, etc.) by force or without legal right:
The pretender tried to usurp the throne.
2.
to use without authority or right; employ wrongfully:

[enid602]

9. Hill country

Agree. Thx for recap. Looks good as the contest heads into Hill contry.

[Cal Carpenter]

10. I don't ever remember superdelegates being included in running totals

this early in a primary season, if at all.

Can anyone clarify that for me? Is it normal that every online election page from HuffPo to the NYTimes, and apparently all the talking heads (based on what I read here - I don't have cable or anything) are including the superdelegates?

The NYT election 2016 says Hillary is winning 394 to 42. I don't remember this from past years. I feel like they are usually treated as an aside, or an occasional 'what if...?', but never to this extent where they are already showing up in someone's column 6 months away from the conventions.

I have never seen this much confusion about superdelegates - about when their votes count (at the convention, no?) and how rarely any of them buck the will of the people.

I am not a tinfoil hatter, nor do I participate much in GD: P, but it really seems like there is a concerted effort to confuse people about the real state of the primary contest and sow FUD.

[morningfog]

17. I especially don't remember supers included in per state totals.

When the supers were tallied, they were stand alone. Not this bullshit, Hillary picked up 6 NH super delegates. No, fuck that.

Hilary's handicap. Any and everything to perpetuate the facade that she is inevitable.

[restorefreedom]

20. and the m$m is playing right into the lie. nt

[Cal Carpenter]

76. Thanks for the reply

I was starting to question my memory. I think the result of making Bernie look so far behind may end up increasing the turnout for him, rather than making Hillary more inevitable. Especially since he seems to be picking up a lot of first time voters and folks who don't always turn out for primaries and such. Time will tell...

(and thanks to the other folks who replied too!)

[jeff47]

28. They weren't.

Including superdelegates so prominently is new this year. Previously, they were treated more like an asterisk.

[CoffeeCat]

31. My husband and I just discussed this. NO, this was not done in 2008.

Hillary Clinton always threw around her "But I've got the Superdelegate" meme. It was a threat to make us give up.

The media never went this far. They included the hard-count totals won in the state primaries. They never, collectively, used the Superdelegate numbers to cloud the win.

It's really bizarre that media members are a bunch of lazy lap dogs who report in the manner that Clinton instructs them.

It's pathetic.

[Duval]

40. It's worse than pathetic. It is detrimental to our Democracy.

[jkbRN]

49. Thanks for the clarification!

[CoffeeCat]

53. The Clinton Camp clearly brought up the Superdelegate issue CONSTANTLY

Those Superdelegates were constantly thrown in our faces, "Obama can't win." or "Doesn't matter, Clinton has the Superdelegates, Obama can't win."

This was an intentional tactic---used to demoralize Obama supporters and to quell his momentum.

Furthermore, this talking point was designed to suppress voter turnout. If people thought he had no chance of winning, it was likely that they wouldn't show up to vote.

They're repeating this same talking point---but this time the media is helping them to disseminate this nonsense.

Every time you see this disinformation--you should correct it.

[questionseverything]

78. you are correct

in the past the earned delegates were reported separately and the super delegates reported as an aside process

this is just more msm helping along the 1%er

[KingCharlemagne]

11. K and Friggin' R - nt

[OilemFirchen]

12. That's a virtual tie, right?

[CoffeeCat]

21. There's no margin of error in a vote. Sorry. Bernie is ahead by 4.

Polls have margins of error. Final votes don't.

[stillwaiting]

26. We all know Bernie got more votes in both states.

A LOT more in at least one of the two.

[mythology]

30. Actually you don't know that he got more votes in Iowa

You can assume, you can believe, you can wish, but you can't know.

It's one of the reasons caucuses should go away.

[stillwaiting]

36. Of course I can't know 100%, but we can certainly deduce things based on how

things were handled at the end.

I'd be willing to bet quite a bit of money that he/we won Iowa.

HRC will NOT win the General Election.

[NiteOwl1]

13. Point is ????

When in reality it should be a landslide in favor of Clinton... not a great showing so far for Hillary.

Personally... I love it. It is the best thing that could happen. We don't need any presumptive candidate...regardless of who prevails.

[rocktivity]

16. It's nothing but a intimidation/demoralization tactic

The problem is that the MSM is picking up on it. But you can't blame them -- as candidates, go, Hillary has more advertising money to spend.

Nor can you blame Hillary for trying it a second time, since it worked so beautifully for her in 2008:




rocktivity

[NJCher]

74. yep!

Same old same old.

Sheesh, we don't even get original tactics from her. We just get the same old power moves. Love the point of your post.


Cher

[Gothmog]

19. Denial is not just a river in Africa

[restorefreedom]

22. lol but not relevant. the supers will back the winner. nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

47. ^THIS^ is the truth, right here.

Super Duper Delegates will desert a loser like rats desert a sinking ship.

[restorefreedom]

60. plus they have their own jobs to think about. nt

[CoffeeCat]

23. Yes, I agree--the Clinton camp is in denial

If they need to count the super delegates in their "We're winning" manipulations--then this does show incredible desperation.

And, as you said, "denial."

She played this same super delegate schtick in 2008. You would think that she would learn from experience.

[Gothmog]

25. Do you expect party leaders to vote for a candidate who will hurt down ballot candidates?

Time will tell.

[jeff47]

29. Do you expect party leaders to vote to destroy the party in the GE?

What, exactly, do you think will happen to turnout in November if the party leadership overrules the voters?

[CoffeeCat]

34. I think it will become apparent

that Sanders will be the best thing to happen to the Democratic party in the past few decades.

This match has been lit. Bernie is catching fire, and the electorate will be so ignited and galvanized--I predict record turnout for the GE against Trump.

And we will shred Trump.

All national polls show Bernie beating Trump (by wider margins than Clinton), and Bernie has only begun.

Hold on to your hats!

[marions ghost]

37. ++++++

yep

[stillwaiting]

24. Anything else is propaganda attempting to manipulate and control others. nt

[jillan]

33. Superdelegates were NOT counted in the totals in 2008. They called them "possible" delegates or

something like that.

[in_cog_ni_to]

35. Thank you! The Super Delegate spin is ridiculous. They're nothing but props and window dressing!

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[KingCharlemagne]

39. At 15% of overall delegates, the Supers are a little more than 'props and window dressing.' As

I understand it, their principal role is to prevent 'brokered conventions' that fail to secure a nominee on the first ballot. They serve as a 'tie-breaker' force.

I wish someone with more institutional memory than I have would weigh in on this.

[in_cog_ni_to]

63. I meant *at this time* that's all they are and they're using them, at this time, as nothing but

Window dressing and props - to make it look like HRH is inevitable. They don't come into play until the convention.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[Duval]

38. Thanks, CoffeeCat. I had no idea how these

Superdelegates worked.

[NowSam]

41. The Super Delegate thing isn't helping Hillary at all in my view

I believe it makes it look like she doesn't care what the will of the electorate is.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

44. Part of me wonders if they CARE...

Especially after this:

Keep in mind that they're buddy buddy with the Bush Crime Family.

[NowSam]

45. Sad commentary but very astute. EOM

[fbc]

72. I agree completely!!!

If Hillary's supporters want to trumpet the idea that they will steal the election from the voters, why should we stop them?

It's not our fault if they are as tone deaf as their candidate.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

42. I can picture a '68 style riot if the Clintons tried to steal it.

[cherokeeprogressive]

52. Me too. I'd expect demonstrations, and excessive use of force ordered by the Mayor, Jim Kenney.

He's a Clintonite; Bill Clinton hosted a fundraiser for him in 2015.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

65. I don't think they'll be able to resist the use of tear gas to make us all feel the Bern.

[LongTomH]

68. Only this time, it won't just be outside the convention hall, it will be all over the nation.......

.....and all over the world!!!! The rest of the world is watching this election closely.

When I was in Iowa last week, I saw a team from Italian TV at Bernie HQ. People told me I just missed the Japanese and South Korean TV reporters.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

69. Bernie is proposing things they already do in the rest of the world....

That's why it's so stupid when someone says we can't do it.

[SoapBox]

43. Thank you, thank you CoffeeCat

for this bottom line OP. Excellent.

Thanks for the clarity.

On to Nevada and South Carolina!

[jalan48]

46. Is there a rule that requires the super delegates to support the person with the highest vote total?

[HooptieWagon]

77. There is no rule.

But to not do so would create a deep divide, if not civil war within the party.

[jalan48]

82. The oligarchs don't care. Whatever it takes to win.

[ismnotwasm]

50. Okey dokey.

[Aldo Leopold]

54. Thanks, CoffeeCat!

This is great news indeed!

[Stuckinthebush]

55. Ha!

Keep telling yourself that.

[IMG][/IMG]

[CoffeeCat]

57. I keep telling myself that because I remember 2008--Hillary TRIED to spread this meme then...

2008--We constantly heard that it wouldn't matter if Obama won. Hillary had the NEARLY ALL of the Superdelegates.

Oh wait. What happened? Obama continued to win those state-primary contests and the Superdelegates did what the Superdelegates always do.

They fell in line behind the winner.

If your candidate Hillary wins, she'll get the Superdelegates. If Bernie wins, he'll get the Superdelegates.

Superdelegates will always respect the will of the majority of the Democratic Party. Always.

PERIOD.

[Stuckinthebush]

75. Nah

You see, Obama was a democrat. Also he had the support of a wide swath of the party. Bernie is not and does not. March is going to be a wake up call for his campaign. But, congrats on the decisive victory in NH. He did very well there.

[CoffeeCat]

79. You're banking on the Superdelegates

bucking the will of the Democratic voters?

That's a bet I would not want to make.

Bernie's campaign has momentum. He's also got a clear, concise message that is resonating with Americans. His camp is picking up steam.

Your candidate is fumbling; still trying to find a clear rational for her campaign and for why she's running. Not exactly a winning combo, after months into this campaign.

We'll see you in Nevada, where Bernie is ahead of where Obama was, at this point, by 6 points. Obama made up a 25-point deficit in NV and went on to earn more delegates than Clinton in NV. And Obama didn't have the amazing NH win that Bernie just garnered.

I think that many of you, who believe in Clinton's fairytale "firewall" are going to be in shock. Sanders did very well with Hispanics in Iowa. We may not have a large percentage of minorities, but the Hispanics in Iowa were behind Sanders all the way. Sander's message appeals to people. Black, white, hispanic--when they're exposed to his message, they gravitate toward it. Your candidate has no coherent message.

[Stuckinthebush]

81. The Democratic voters are and will vote for Clinton

Keep the faith. You'll need it.

[freebrew]

56. I didn't know it, but...

according to the hillary group, anyone not supporting her isn't a real Democrat. I thought that type of talk was to be discouraged here.

Maybe I should post something there and get banned. If they don't want feedback why are they on the GD-P?

Just wonderin'...

[Cassiopeia]

58. This election may prove to be the exception.

The powers that be, which includes superdelegates , may choose to burn the party to the ground instead of risking the change Bernie is fighting for.

I hope the superdelegates do continue the tradition of following the will of the voters, but I won't count on that tradition holding on this primary election. Bernie needs to win this with big majorities for us to be safe.

[LiberalArkie]

59. The media is screwing it self by counting the super delegates in the news. If they showed HRC

behind. All that money in the super pacs would start flowing to the news media.

[abakan]

61. K & R nt.

[azurnoir]

66. Thank you so this too is a repeat of 2008 :)

[Uncle Joe]

67. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, CoffeeCat.

[Dont call me Shirley]

73. K & R...

[NCTraveler]

80. I'm good with that. Nt

[Enthusiast]

83. Kicked and recommended!

[Gene Debs]

84. Superdelegates need to go out on the same discard pile as the Electoral College.