Kick if you are ready for 100% increase in tax revenues.

[kennetha]

Last edited Wed Feb 10, 2016, 05:17 PM - Edit history (1)

That's what Bernie is proposing.

In particular, BY HIS OWN ESTIMATES he needs to double Federal Revenue roughly just to pay for his healthcare plan alone.

I know. I know, this 100% increase in federal revenue is going to come from the wealthy and wall street and closing loop holes.

It's not going to effect you! You're going to get all the benefits and pay little of the freight. You bailed out Wall Street. Time for Wall street to bail out you!

But do you really think there is the political will to more than DOUBLE federal revenues (cause when you add up ALL of his programs you've got to more than double federal revenue.)

If you believe that.... well.... jeez.

[hollysmom]

1. source please

[HooptieWagon]

5. I hope he remembered to wash hands before posting.

[Jarqui]

11. +!

[demosocialist]

14. still waiting for the ask for OPs sources....

hmmm the rightwing talking points websites must be down right now

[kennetha]

91. see below

it's on Bernie's own site. Can't believe that's what your man is really proposing? Well, it is. He's proud of it.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

99. Where in the hell is "below?"

I will not chase you down a rabbit hole. If you have hard numbers sourced, show them. If not, we're done.

[kennetha]

101. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1194280

[Admiral Loinpresser]

117. Your Atlantic hit piece is a mischaracterization.

Also, universal Medicare will result in huge savings in per capita spending and in individual out-of-pocket expenses. Taxes for the rich are at historic lows. Personally, I would like to see upper marginal rates closer to Eisenhower-era rates, but I can accept this plan as at least moving towards a healthier and more equitable economy. Certainly much more sustainable than the current system, which is totally insane.

So yeah, it's about time the wealth inequality vector pointed in the other direction. Actually long overdue.

I will do much better under this plan than I am currently and so will hundreds of millions of other Americans.

[Ferd Berfel]

143. Just more right wing BS and a rehash of thier hit piece

[cali]

40. Sources? VSP Hill fans don't need no stinkin' sources.

[TheBlackAdder]

114. Sometimes I wonder if these OPs come from Weekly World News, next to Elvis was a Space Alien! nt

[dorkzilla]

118. Are you dissing BatBoy???

How VERY DARE YOU!

[hollysmom]

148. I loved bat boy,my favorite cover was bat boy bites Sadaam!

the losses we have suffered.

[LondonReign2]

44. Tomorrow the story will be "1 Billion percent!?!?!!1111"

Hillary supporters simply embarrass themselves.

[restorefreedom]

68. crickets. nt

[hedda_foil]

2. Stuff and nonsense.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

3. Fine by me.

After all, I'm told all I want is 'free stuff'. How it's free if I'm paying for it with more taxes I'm not quite following, but whatever.

[kennetha]

92. He's not going to double your personal taxes

he's going to double total tax receipts. well not total tax receipts -- cause there is more than income tax revenue and estate tax revenue.

He's going to raise additional revenue equal to the total revenue generated by those two taxes.

That's a LOT of dough in additional taxes. And that just pays for a single program.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

94. I'm fine with both.

He could double my personal taxes, and that would be fine too, given how they'd be spent. I don't object to money spent on the general welfare. I object to it being spent on foreign colonial adventures and exploitation of third world countries.

[daleanime]

4. Nooooo!!!!!1!! Democrats might actually stand for something.....

I must stop this from happening.

[beam me up scottie]

6. These ops give whole new meaning to going off the rails:

[hifiguy]

38. DUzy!

Pathetic, ain't it?

[beam me up scottie]

47. Today's meme is "Taxes". Pass it on!

[kdmorris]

57. LMAO!!! n/t

[kennetha]

93. Truth is going off the rails?

[Fuddnik]

7. I smell desperation in the air.

And it smells like shit!

[HooptieWagon]

8. Yes, double the taxes on the 1%.

About fucking time.

[hedgehog]

58. Agreed.

[firebrand80]

9. Don't tax you, don't tax me, tax that fella behind the tree nt

[2pooped2pop]

10. Lol

Quit spreading lies. The top ten percenters and corporations will see increases but considering that many have paid less in taxes than you for the last twenty years plus have been subsidized with part of what you have paid, I'm OK with the slight raise in taxes that I might see.

[amborin]

12. falsehoods & total misrepresentation

[kennetha]

96. No it's not

It's Bernie's plan. It requires raising over 1 trillion dollars in new taxes per year -- not just through the income tax. But through a wide range of new taxes. The point is that the revenues raised by his own projections will equal the total tax revenue raised as of 2013 by the individual income tax and the estate tax. That's just a fact. Not at all in contention.

What's in contention is whether that would be enough, together with his projected savings, to pay for his health care program.

[Motown_Johnny]

100. But the Federal Government brings in ~$3.3 Trillion a year

So how is adding 1 trillion doubling 3.3 trillion?



http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com/total

[kennetha]

105. Total Revenue

From individual income taxes and the estate tax.

[Motown_Johnny]

113. Your OP says "federal revenue" and that is what I gave a link to. It is ~$3.3 Trillion

"I know. I know, this 100% increase in federal revenue is going to come from the wealthy and wall street and closing loop holes."



You may want to go back and edit your OP to make your point easier to understand plus to add links to your numbers, both the revenue and what you say Bernie wants to do.


Your OP really does look as if you are being dishonest.

[kennetha]

121. you know it's true that

Sanders wants to increase tax revenue by over a trillion dollars, right?

You know it's true that in 2013 (not 2015) total receipts from income taxes and the estate tax were just over a trillion.

He wants to raise that much money in taxes just to pay for one program.

Ready for that or not?

Do you think the economy will stand for that or not?

Do you think the American people yet understand the extent to which he wants to raise total tax receipts?

And we're just talking about one of his programs.

And we're taking his estimates at face value.

[Motown_Johnny]

125. Please provide links to your numbers.

I believe that your trillion dollar number does not take into account the reduction in health care premiums being paid to private companies.

That is a net decrease in costs for the vast majority of us.

You are making the argument a Republican would make "it is bad because it is taxes". Most people don't feel that way. If it saves us money we don't care if the check goes to the government instead of a private insurance company.

I would like links so that I can refute your arguments more completely. I understand that your vague assertions make you feel as if you are getting your point across. You are mistaken.

[kennetha]

128. Already provided a link down below.

in this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1194280


It's true that Sanders predicts certain savings in total healthcare outlays. That doesn't change the revenue side of the equation.

It's all on Sanders own webpage, by the way.

You could find a ton of articles by thoughtful people challenging his assumptions. But that's not the point. Just taking him at his word, he wants a LOT more tax revenue.

And if he is wrong about the savings he can get, he'll need even more revenue.

[Motown_Johnny]

142. Why can't you comprehend this part?

From your post that you linked to:

A family of four making $50,000 a year taking the standard deduction would only pay $466 this year.



That $466.00 a year replaces what that family of 4 is paying in health care premiums.



http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/health-insurance-premiums.aspx

^snip^

Updated December 2015

The increased cost of health insurance is a central fact in any discussion of health policy and health delivery. As annual premiums edged beyond $16,800 for an average family, costs are blamed for rising uninsured and "under-insurance." For those Americans who are fully-covered, these cost realities affect employers, both large and small, plus the "pocket-book impact" on ordinary families.




Of course we need to also consider the employer contribution to that, but I am keeping it as simple as possible for you since you seem incapable of grasping the obvious.

[sinkingfeeling]

13. And where to do get this stuff? Thin air?

[cali]

43. Nope. They pull it out of their, er, hats.

[Lordquinton]

63. Hope they stood up first

only polite...

[SwampG8r]

135. I had a cat once would do that

Had to throw out my hats be ause he kept "sourcing op's" with it

[floriduck]

15. I'm good with it.

In New Hampshire, you'd be part of the minority.

[truedelphi]

120. Me too or three! And for firms like Verizon, which over the past few years have paid Zero

Percent in taxes, it would be a good thing.

Even if that move to tax these big Communications Firms, like Verizon and AT & T, means higher fees to users, it might have one additional good result (other than contributing to ability to fund sociial and infra-structure funding.) In fact, it might help to save the birds and bees.

The birds and bees are under assault from all the magnetic smog that disrupts the normal magnetic signals that are needed to allow for successful flight. Navigation for the bees and migration for the birds is under assault by our using these devices 24/7.

[NightWatcher]

16. This message of Hope and Change brought to you from the fear mongers at Hillary Co.

The Progressivism is overwhelming.

[Doctor_J]

17. My taxes will go up by $100/year under Bernie's plan

For that I will pay about $15,000 less in healthcare costs. My grandchildren will not graduate college $100,000 in debt. We will not have 30 million americans without healthcare and another 20 million who can't afford the co-pays

And that's just the beginning.

What is your screen name at the Blaze?

[kennetha]

97. Not talking about your taxes

talking about total tax receipts. Those are Bernie's own numbers. You think he's lying to you?

Ask yourself what effect increasing total tax receipts by over one trillion per year have on the economy?

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

18. OhNoes! Fear! Fear! Save me pragmatic, team Shillery!

[pberq]

19. An economist found that median income would increase by $22,000 if Bernie Sanders gets to the White

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/bernie-sanders-median-income-would-soar-and-poverty-would-fall-under-democrat-policies-study-finds-a6863136.html

Bernie Sanders: Median income would soar and poverty would fall under Democrat policies, study finds An economist found that median income would increase by $22,000 if Bernie Sanders gets to the White House

Rachael Revesz New York Tuesday 9 February 2016

Average family income would jump by $22,000 per year and unemployment would fall to 3.8 per cent if Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders is elected as president, a new study has found.

The report, carried out by Gerald Friedman, an economics professor at University of Massachusetts Amherst, found that 26 million jobs would be created under Mr Sanders, and poverty would drop to 6 per cent, instead of 13.9 per cent, as forecasted by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO).

The findings on Mr Sanders’ spending and tax proposals, given to CNNMoney, also reveal that the US economy would grow by 5.3 per cent per year under Mr Sanders rather than the CBO’s projected 2.1 per cent. . .

[Dretownblues]

77. But but but TAXES!!!!!!

[dorkzilla]

119. Pisshhh, that is written by a respected economist

Why would he know more than a random poster on DU? I mean get real, man.

[Gregorian]

20. All we're saying is, pay your fair share. Period.

This notion that we're changing anything is bullshit. They changed it, and we're simply restoring it to what it was when America worked.

[DefenseLawyer]

21. Sniff sniff

[cali]

22. People really shouldn't be able to make blatantly false claims

That is most certainly not what he is proposing.

For shame.

And you obviously don't understand why people are supporting him. Pretty surprising. You post here, but it looks like you don't read posts here. Try reading this:


Let's clear something up. Bernie's supporters don't expect a magic wand

We know that his priorities are aspirational. We know that if he was elected, that would be the beginning, not the end. We don't expect miracles, we expect him to fight the corporate money and power that is swiftly turning this country in a very bad, very dangerous direction. We don't believe that scrambling to tinker around the edges or produce fig leaves to politely pretend you're doing something is the right approach, because at this time that really is just tantamount to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

I think a lot of Bernie's supporters feel as I do:

It's about integrity, and Bernie having consistently fought for the right things for a long time. It's about trusting his judgment, and I pretty much do. He's represented me for 25 years. So he's earned it. It's about ethics. In many ways, to me this primary is about character as much as anything else.

Sanders supporters know that when Bernie is talking about revolution, he's talking about shifting the culture and we know that doesn't happen overnight. We know that cultural shift precedes enacting single payer. We know we could fail.

We trust him to fight for people.

[kath]

28. But reading is haaaaard, cali!

Much more fun to spew bullcrap, apparently.

[cali]

34. Yep. And Hillary supporters have the temerity to

endlessly whinge on about us Bernie supporters

[frylock]

42. It's the one thing they do well.

[hifiguy]

31. Perfectly said, cali.

As usual.

[cali]

46. Thank you so much.

[PoiBoy]

75. +1,000,000

Very, very well said, Cali...

Let's clear something up. Bernie's supporters don't expect a magic wand.. We know that his priorities are aspirational. We know that if he was elected, that would be the beginning, not the end. We don't expect miracles, we expect him to fight the corporate money and power that is swiftly turning this country in a very bad, very dangerous direction. We don't believe that scrambling to tinker around the edges or produce fig leaves to politely pretend you're doing something is the right approach, because at this time that really is just tantamount to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

You are so absolutely correct....

[cali]

78. Thank you.

[dorkzilla]

124. Wait a second...are you telling me he’s not pure?

He’s not the Messiah? That we’re just robotic morons with no ability to tell that Bernie has no magic wand? I didn’t sign on for this! I WANT FREE STUFF!!!! I WANT UNICORNS!!!! I’m outta here - I’m with Hillary!!!



Good post cali.

[jham123]

23. I nominate this thread for the TRASH

[Red Oak]

24. Oh noes - the people are coming, the people are coming

It's going to be a debacle, hide the children!

100% tax increases!

Aghhhhhh!

Yeah, right.

Give me a link or two to see where you get your information.

[Armstead]

25. Lee Atwater is that you?

[NowSam]

26. Here comes the kitchen sink

just as Bernie said it would.

[hifiguy]

27. Why isn't this considered trolling?

[cali]

49. And pure 100% Flamebait. Pedestrian and unimpressive, but Flamebait

[arcane1]

52. Because it's in support of the candidate who employs the DU owner's wife n/t

[hifiguy]

60. Ouch. Truth.

[truedelphi]

122. Sssh! Cat needs to be in bag. n/t

[AzDar]

144. I did not know this...

[kennetha]

98. Cause it's flat out true?

[retrowire]

29. Misinformant confirmed.

Last edited Wed Feb 10, 2016, 03:16 PM - Edit history (1)

Rule #6 of Disinformation for Online Misinformants.

6. Hit and Run: In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism, reasoning -- simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's viewpoint.

[yourout]

30. So that is today's meme from the Hill. Got it

Jesus they are getting desperate

[LondonReign2]

50. Yup, OP after OP about taxes

But hey, they are all just a coincidence!

[arcane1]

53. "Read My Lips" is sure to follow.

Yesterday I was saying it was an "everything but the kitchen sink" strategy, but I think they're throwing the sink in there too

[m-lekktor]

56. It's a tribute to their beloved Ronald Reagan! nt

[dchill]

32. Kick!

[Vinca]

33. Well . . . jeez . . . I'll happily pay more taxes so everyone can have Medicare like I do.

I'll happily pay more taxes so the younger generation can educate themselves without going into debt for decades. Jeez . . . I don't even have anyone in the family who would benefit from that. Jeez . . . I think your assertion everyone's taxes will double is BS.

[deutsey]

35. Thanks for the flashback

Brought me right back to the '80s there for a second.

[itsrobert]

36. The problem is his programs don't add up

Take his healthcare plan where he estimates he will save more on prescription drugs than what is being spent.

[ornotna]

83. And......

Do you have any real information to pass on or is this just another drive by.

[frylock]

37. Kick if you are ready for 100% herp derp.

[alcibiades_mystery]

39. You never know unless you try!

[cyberswede]

41. I'd gladly pay more taxes for single-payer healthcare

...and free college for my little people.

Most people will come out ahead in this scenario.

As for the notion that voters can’t see that paying $1,000 in taxes beats paying $5,000 in health insurance premiums, it is an insult to the American people.

http://www.salon.com/2016/02/07/its_almost_over_for_hillary_this_election_is_a_mass_insurrection_against_a_rigged_system/

[scscholar]

45. I am!

That would mean I'd get even twice more back from EITC!

[packman]

48. I, too, would like a clear, understandable

explanation of how Bernie would pay for all he purposes. Wall Street indeed needs many loopholes closed, off shore stuff cleaned up, and the broom of reform applied - but, how is this going to affect the middle class, the ordinary Joe Plumber (sorry for using his name)?

Seems like the 1% backed the rest of us into a street fight that we have to win With Bernie we have a candidate that may scare too many Americans into voting for him because of how it will affect their pocketbook. I can really understand how many, many families struggling to make ends meet WILL NOT vote for Bernie because of that. They will fear more taken from their meager income and will vote for the billionaire who promises not to.

[arcane1]

51. Well, you got the memo, but you have no idea what to do with it.

Kick if you're ready for $0 in insurance premiums!

[Shadowflash]

54. Yeah.

[Vinca]

72. Best . . . dog . . . ever!

[Downwinder]

55. Well then KICK.

I was pretty comfortable with Ike's 93% tax bracket.

[TDale313]

59. Quit lying. n/t

[hedgehog]

61. Right now I have working kids who need help paying for their

apartment, so I'd be ahead with double taxes if they get decent paying jobs!

[Logical]

62. LOL, hillary, is that you? Wow, fucking desperation taking over the hill fans. Nt

[bowens43]

64. lies seem to be all the hill folk have left LOL

[AZ Progressive]

65. The Conservatives on DU are being outed...

[DrewFlorida]

66. Yeah, America is so great that we can't do what every other industrialized country.....

does for it's citizens.
# Expecting healthcare for all our citizens is too much to ask.
# Expecting a decent education that doesn't leave us in debt for the rest of our lives is too much to ask.
# Expecting Wall-Street to be accountable to the American people is too much to ask.
# Expecting real change is too much to ask.
None of those things can ever change if you don't try to change them.

[dana_b]

67. Another person to make these big, false claims and then disappear n/t

[kennetha]

103. Flat out true

You have a problem with truth?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1194280

[safeinOhio]

69. Looking at the charts, I'd pay

2.5% more and do better enough to make it up in spades.


Now my neighbor's cousin told her that HRC is planning on bombing Iran on day one and then drafting all women up to age 62 for boots on the ground. See, I gave my source.

[kennetha]

102. Not talking about your individual tax rate

Talking about total federal revenue from taxes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1194280

[safeinOhio]

138. Like I said

Mine will only go up 2.5%

Corporations, Bankers, millionaires and rest need to pay more than 100% more than they are paying, which sometimes works out to little or nothing.

[AOR]

70. Kick if you're ready for more disingenuous horseshit...

from a cadre of top 5% income bracket Clinton supporters whining about taxes and spewing daily right-wing talking points to protect their own self-interests and political comfort zone at all costs.

[jillan]

71. Wow - I didn't realize you were a CEO of a corporation that hides its earnings in the Cayman Isles.

My bad!

[Matt_in_STL]

73. Alert Results

On Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:34 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Kick if you are ready for 100% increase in taxes.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511192429

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

Not an opinion. Just a flat out lie.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:38 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Leave it alone, it just makes the poster appear foolish and it doesn't convince anybody otherwise.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Get your facts straight before using scaremongering tactics to influence opinion. This is a hit piece basically...
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Incomplete information is a lie.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: The OP posted this with no backup, regardless of how many times they were asked. OP hasn't returned to comment. Smells like a troll and, with no follow up, I have to assume they know it's a lie. This seems to be a common theme around here lately....
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: An opinion that the alerter doesn't agree with doesn't warrant removal.

[AlbertCat]

74. Holy Freakoly! Taxes!

Taxes have been much higher than today's and it wasn't the end of everything.

Tax phobia is Right Wing anyway.

[Deny and Shred]

76. Kick if you start OPs and don't respond once in 2 1/2 hours

[kennetha]

90. had a 2.5 hour meeting.

[Deny and Shred]

95. Fair enough. Among the 90 responses, many are intriguing.

I will check in 2.5 hours and see how we're doing.

[AOR]

115. A meeting for what...

how to distribute the latest right-wing talking points of the Clinton campaign ?... or a meeting with an Austrian Economics investment banker on how to defend a portfolio from raging hordes of "Commie and Socialist" savages coming to steal your stuff ? A guest spot on Zero Hedge is in your future.

[Dawson Leery]

79. I'm not.

[notadmblnd]

80. I'll tell you what I believe

I believe you pulled this from a place that the sun doesn't shine on.

[pugetres]

81. Nonsense.

Try reading up on the details here: http://taxfoundation.org/article/details-and-analysis-senator-bernie-sanders-s-tax-plan

[kennetha]

89. what, you don't know how to add?

just add up Bernie's own numbers. That's all you have to do.

[pugetres]

110. I have looked over the information for myself.

And, changing your original post still does not change the information at my link.

"Kick if you are ready for 100% increase in taxes." is the original statement.

[angstlessk]

82. I make about 14,000 per year...and my health care wants me to pay 800+ per month

I say bring it on...100% increase in my taxes is a whole lot less than 800+ per month!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

84. Kick for the entertainment value of comedy.

[kennetha]

85. Not quite doubling TOTAL federal revenue but increasing it by an amount equal to

the total (2013) federal revenue from individual income taxes and the estate tax. That's a HUGE and unprecedented increase in federal revenue. JUST TO PAY FOR ONE PROGRAM

And those are Sander's own numbers.

I didn't say he wanted to increase individual income taxes by 100%. He's proposed a wide variety of taxes, designed to substantially increase government revenues.


You can read about it here:

The taxes Sanders is calling for are in a different league from any peacetime Democratic candidate in history. The single-payer health plan alone, according to the estimates of the Sanders campaign, requires raising as much revenue as the federal government collected in 2013 through the individual income and estate taxes. In other words, we’d need to double that revenue. To do so, Sanders proposes the following: a 6.2 percent increase in payroll taxes; a 2.2 percent increase in income taxes on everyone; higher estate taxes; taxing capital gains and interest as ordinary income; limiting tax deductions for the rich; and higher income-tax rates on the upper brackets.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/02/sanderss-party-problem/460293/

Or see Sanders own estimations here:

A 6.2 percent income-based health care premium paid by employers.
Revenue raised: $630 billion per year.
A 2.2 percent income-based premium paid by households.
Revenue raised: $210 billion per year.
This year, a family of four taking the standard deduction can have income up to $28,800 and not pay this tax under this plan.
A family of four making $50,000 a year taking the standard deduction would only pay $466 this year.Progressive income tax rates.
Revenue raised: $110 billion a year.Under this plan the marginal income tax rate would be:
37 percent on income between $250,000 and $500,000.
43 percent on income between $500,000 and $2 million.
48 percent on income between $2 million and $10 million. (In 2013, only 113,000 households, the top 0.08 percent of taxpayers, had income between $2 million and $10 million.)
52 percent on income above $10 million. (In 2013, only 13,000 households, just 0.01 percent of taxpayers, had income exceeding $10 million.)
Taxing capital gains and dividends the same as income from work.
Revenue raised: $92 billion per year.
Warren Buffett, the second wealthiest American in the country, has said that he pays a lower effective tax rate than his secretary. The reason is that he receives most of his income from capital gains and dividends, which are taxed at a much lower rate than income from work. This plan will end the special tax break for capital gains and dividends on household income above $250,000.
Limit tax deductions for rich.
Revenue raised: $15 billion per year
Under Bernie’s plan, households making over $250,000 would no longer be able to save more than 28 cents in taxes from every dollar in tax deductions. This limit would replace more complicated and less effective limits on tax breaks for the rich including the AMT, the personal exemption phase-out and the limit on itemized deductions.
The Responsible Estate Tax.
Revenue raised: $21 billion per year.
This provision would tax the estates of the wealthiest 0.3 percent (three-tenths of 1 percent) of Americans who inherit over $3.5 million at progressive rates and close loopholes in the estate tax.

https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/

Just do a little math and you get that the amount of new revenue he wants to raise is very, very high. And is in fact equal to the total revenue raised by the combination of income taxes and estate taxes in 2013.

Those are his numbers.

[Fawke Em]

140. Hey - it's that same article by the former Clinton deputy secretary.

Because, we all know he doesn't have an agenda.

[Vattel]

141. your math is wrong.

"Not quite doubling TOTAL federal revenue but increasing it by an amount equal to the total (2013) federal revenue from individual income taxes and the estate tax."

"Not even close to doubling" would be more accurate than "not quite doubling" because federal revenue from individual income taxes and the estate tax accounts does not even make up half of total federal revenue.

[roody]

86. If it means health care for all,

and education for all, hell, yes.

[kennetha]

88. Doesn't pay for education for all

just health care. He needs more taxes to pay for that.

[roody]

107. My answer is obviously Fuck, yes.

[kennetha]

108. We'll see how many agree

[hifiguy]

145. I have to admire your persistence if nothing else.

Particularly given the unprecedented factual beatdown/trouncing you have taken on this thread.

[ahimsa]

131. It's all a distraction from the real issue...

Giving everyone free healthcare and education will leave the MIC with very few incentives for anyone to join their misadventures.

[H2O Man]

87. silly

[truedelphi]

104. If it was okay for Bernanke and Geithner to "leak" some 22 trillions of dollars to the

Big Financial Firms, and then have the nation's housing stock somehow or other arrive in the pockets of these same Financial people, it should be okay to "leak" some money into social programs and re-building infra-structure. This cost each and every man woman and child some $ 220,000 bucks!

(Of course, it is logical that our housing stock is now in the pockets of the Big Bankers - they have all the money and they refuse to give any credit to the same hapless souls who were destroyed in Collapse of 2008.)

[Senator Tankerbell]

106. I have a message for Bernie Sanders.

[kenfrequed]

109. Typical redbaiting bs

It works so well when Democrats run against the idea of government doing good.

I mean, why not just say "I'm socially liberal but economically conservative" and be done with it.

[kennetha]

112. Why is it BS?

it's just a fact.

Allergic to facts?

[hobbit709]

132. What does it all mean, Mr. Natural?

"Don't mean sheeit..."

[hifiguy]

146. The real Mr Natural quote.

By Crumb himself:

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

111. Yes, do it.

But what are we going to do with all the unemployed health insurance employees? I guess some might be hired into the new government administration to handle the health industry.

And, I assume there's no more charges for health insurance, drugs, dental, eyeglasses, medicare, it's all covered by Single Payer?

[kennetha]

116. Actually people who are serious about single payer

Have written about this.

Here's an article

What will happen to all of the people who work for insurance companies?

The new system will still need some people to administer claims. Administration will shrink, however, eliminating the need for many insurance workers, as well as administrative staff in hospitals, clinics and nursing homes. More health care providers, especially in the fields of long-term care, home health care, and public health, will be needed, and many insurance clerks can be retrained to enter these fields. Many people now working in the insurance industry are, in fact, already health professionals (e.g. nurses) who will be able to find work in the health care field again. But many insurance and health administrative workers will need a job retraining and placement program. We anticipate that such a program would cost about $20 billion, a small fraction of the administrative savings from the transition to national health insurance.

PNHP has worked with labor unions and others to develop plans for a jobs conversion program with would protect the incomes of displaced clerical workers until they were retrained and transitioned to other jobs.

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq

[hifiguy]

147. Can we put the CEOs and other top managers to work making license plates?

[katsy]

123. Discussion of the costs needs discussion of benefits

Bean counting isn't an economic system.

There are real monetary benefits to his plan, no?

Here's one: we all will get what we pay for as opposed to our tax $$$ going to bail out banking douchebags.

Another: if my taxes double will it really affect my bottom line at all since there won't be any out-of-pocket expense for healthcare? Hell we pay $14K a year now for fam of 3 and can't afford care with a $6K out-of-pocket. Next year I can't insure myself anymore so it'll just be the kids. That's not including separate dental. So fuggit yeah raise my taxes and give me some healthcare stability.

Another: and if kids get free college won't that help our society as opposed to maybe building more prisons or expanding welfare because we can't compete globally? Yeah we want an educated populace.

Another: cut corporate welfare and subsidies.

Yeah I'm good with getting taxed when my tax $ aren't supporting a corrupt fucked up political giveaway to the those who need it the least

[kennetha]

126. Your individual taxes are not going to double

that's not what I'm saying. But you're right you do have to both benefits and costs. Bernie's been big on the benefits, and mostly skating on the costs.

He's proposing tax increases that are unprecedented. Lots to cost and benefits to weigh. Can't just focus on the apparently free stuff. Have to ask what would tax increases of the size that he is imagine -- which have NEVER been implemented in the entire history of this country -- really do for the economy.

And don't forget his assumptions are probably all rosy best case scenario type assumptions.

[katsy]

129. IIRC the taxation he's proposing doesn't rise to the level of the 50s thru 70s

And that was when the middle class was expanded.

There is no such thing as free stuff. And in a modern, civilized society people must be well informed of the costs vs benefits to their society in order to make good decisions.

[kennetha]

130. His income tax rates don't go that high

but he is proposing a wealth of taxes.

[Odin2005]

127. What horseshit. Unrec.

[PatrickforO]

133. Kennetha, your post is disingenuous at best.

You say Bernie will need to double federal revenue just to pay for single payer healthcare, however you OMIT completely the huge offsetting cost savings that would be realized in such a system. So, here's a nice link that talks about these huge cost savings as well as increased taxes.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511071488

So...think for a moment, I implore you, about what would be best for the people. Please. Because the current system is best for insurance companies and Wall Street. Certainly not for us. Right now, I have a very good job, and between my employer and me we spend a whopping 18.5% of my gross on shitty, rationed health insurance from an HMO whose primary operational value is cutting costs. Why, kennetha, is that even acceptable? Because the healthcare lobby is powerful? Fuck them. I'm sick of watching my SO suffer with chronic pain because we can't afford the giant deductible for surgery.

There's NOTHING that can justify anything but a single payer system in a country as advanced as ours, and only one barrier: greed.

Fuck greed. I want single payer NOW, and I'll damned right hit the streets to make it happen.

[kennetha]

134. He needs that much additional revenue

GIVEN his assumptions about the savings.

But most responsible people think that his projected savings are WAY too generous and won't materialize. So if he will probably need to raise even more -- and probably substantially more -- revenue.

[PatrickforO]

136. Oh, oh. Then we'll have to quit spending in excess of $1 trillion a year

on the forever war and the illusion of national security?

I'm fine with high taxes, but I want the money to go to me, my family, and fellow Americans instead of Wall Street, the MIC and other multinational corporations.

[kennetha]

137. Obviously you're fine with it

as a Bernie supporter.

But you've got to be aware that what he's proposal will be a very tough sell and extraordinarily harder to actually implement than he's letting on. It's not because they are in the pocket of Wall Street that Democratic politicians are running away from him as fast as they can. The kind of proposals he is offering have a history of causing massive losses for the party. I know that's hard to believe because it seems so appealing, so easy, so magical.

[mhatrw]

139. How much do you and/or your employer pay four your healthcare insurance premiums each year?

Just wondering ...