2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumHillary just lost women to Bernie. But don’t blame Madeleine Albright and Gloria Steinem
By Janell Ross February 10
Perhaps the Clinton campaign's internal polling had, by this weekend, made it clear just how poorly Hillary Clinton was doing among New Hampshire women. Maybe that triggered some kind of distress signal broadcast to Clinton's high-profile female supporters and surrogates.
Maybe that helped set in motion the entire Madeleine Albright-Gloria Steinem-Hillary Clinton fiasco this week.
But now, with the New Hampshire primary done, Clinton's rather dire situation with women particularly young white women in that state is pretty clear for all to see.
Clinton did not simply lose New Hampshire on Tuesday night to Sen. Bernie Sanders (Vt.) by around 20 points; she also narrowly lost New Hampshire women to Sanders, too. In fact, early exit polling indicated that Clinton lost the quest for female voters to Sanders. Late Tuesday night, Sanders led her among women by around 10 points, according to exit polls reported by CNN.
That's right. The group that the Clinton campaign and if we are honest many a political prognosticator long assumed would form a strong contingent of Clinton's voters due, at least in some part, to the thrilling prospect of casting votes that might help to put the first woman in the White House, appears to have opted for Sanders instead.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/10/hillary-clinton-just-lost-women-to-bernie-sanders-but-dont-blame-madeleine-albright-and-gloria-steinem/
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Fundamental changes are needed to help women in our country.
The only thing fundamental with Hillary is her fundamental role in the higher echelons of the establishment.
She just isn't capable, as a thoroughly purchased politician, of doing anything to advance fundamental change. Not for women, nor PoC, nor any of US who aren't in the top 10% income bracket.
Dirty Socialist
(3,252 posts)He "special place in hell" sent me running in the other direction.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)These people live on a different planet.
Bubzer
(4,211 posts)I found that absolutely baffling.
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)TexasMommaWithAHat
(3,212 posts)They are tone deaf when it comes to ordinary women.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)definitely a really obnoxious, off-putting statement
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)She seems to really love it when people say and do evil things. Not sure what that says about her.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)and I say this as someone who doesn't even hate her like so many people I know do.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)libdem4life
(13,877 posts)And it tainted two women who spent their lives being true icons for women. Then along comes HRC and has them do this...for a woman who has spent her life waiting to be annointed President.
Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Very much so.
To me its tragic she didn't run, but who knows. Maybe Bernie will announce she'll be his VP, or maybe in 4 years...
Or maybe that ship has sailed. A lost opportunity that could have transformed America.
Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)that Elizabeth Warren will be his running mate. She always said that she was not running for President. No mention of not accepting an offer to become VP.
She would be great protection for Bernie (against small plane crashes, etc), too, because the powers that be certainly would not want her to be President.
jeff47
(26,549 posts)-It creates a 100% Northeastern ticket.
-She doesn't bring any voters that Sanders doesn't already have
-She is far more powerful, and can do far more, if she remains in the Senate
Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)We'll just have to agree to disagree because I think you are very wrong.
Bohemianwriter
(978 posts)How much could she do if she was merely the shadow of Bernie as president?
Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)jwirr
(39,215 posts)she cannot help change things until 2020? She is very powerful right where she is - the Senate. And she is going to get more powerful using her knowledge and courage in the next years.
Years ago I watched every time Ted Kennedy was nominated as a potential VP and I wanted him to stay where he was because of his power in the Senate. I want that for her also with one difference. I want her to run for president when the spot is open.
Being a VP is still not a place of power.
Autumn Colors
(2,379 posts)If it's Sanders vs Trump vs Bloomberg ... it's going to be an entirely Northeastern ELECTION.
3 New Yorkers
jeff47
(26,549 posts)Again, why'd Warren want the job?
She has so much power in the Senate and is such a threat to the Senate leadership that they created a new leadership position to protect Schumer from her.
VP takes away nearly all her power and ability to actually change anything, for a slight boost in symbolism.
Warren has important work to do. She should stay in a position to actually do it.
DUbeornot2be
(367 posts)...she might want the job because she knows that she would be the best person out there to continue the revolution. There simply has to be a vp who can continue the momentum. Barring that, we'd be one unfortunate event away from the establishment retaking control and making her position in the senate a moot point...
As vp she has a clear path to becoming the next President.
thucythucy
(8,066 posts)In some other threads I've also advocated for a Sanders/Warren ticket, but I think your reasons numbers two and three are pretty compelling points against.
Any ideas on who would be a suitable substitute?
jeff47
(26,549 posts)The party has done such a wonderful job stomping over the left wing that I don't have a good answer. We just do not hear about candidates who are not DLC-style Democrats.
PADemD
(4,482 posts)Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-HI)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsi_Gabbard
First American Samoan member of Congress.
U. S. Army Major
Iraq War Veteran
Serves on Armed Forces & Foreign Affairs Committees
Political Positions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsi_Gabbard#Political_positions
sarge43
(28,941 posts)FailureToCommunicate
(14,014 posts)thereismore
(13,326 posts)Juuust jokiiiing! Of course they would. I would.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)thereismore
(13,326 posts)Nite Owl
(11,303 posts)she would be so good.
Pastiche423
(15,406 posts)Barbara Lee also was the only congressperson to NOT vote to give W war powers for Afghanistan.
FailureToCommunicate
(14,014 posts)off the top of my head.
A Simple Game
(9,214 posts)Just a guess or wishful thinking. But I think he will try to accommodate the Hillary supporters.
Cassiopeia
(2,603 posts)or to remain in the Senate.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)Dirty Socialist
(3,252 posts)I know someone who used to be in the State Department and he said Albright was highly unpopular when she was Secretary of State. Imperious.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)m-lekktor
(3,675 posts)during her tenure. she is a vile woman and i cringe whenever some "liberal" proclaims she is a wondrous role model.
Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)and certainly her remark about dead Iraqi children being worth the sanctions was bad enough. SHows that she has some nasty ideas.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)Repeating the same policies, intended to reign in change, only make problems worse. This applies to gender equality as well as to economic issues. Radical centrists, such as Hillary, are incapable of radical changes because they are trained and inclined to suppress such movements for change from below. That is conservatism in action, and Hillary is a conservative in the broadest sense. It's simply how the Establishment and Wall Street, and its operatives, operate.
Don't expect much improvement aside for token gestures from the Center-Right wing of either party.
speaktruthtopower
(800 posts)posts on the NYT article saying "Gloria Steinem doesn't represent my feminism" are getting thousands of likes.
I thought it was mostly frustration with rigged economy and political system, but maybe I missed something here.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)jham123
(278 posts)Losing by 21 points to an anti-establishment candidate, Dumbass Hillary trots out two old Establishment Dems and Albright hurls insults and threats at women they are trying to win over.....
That's brilliant...just brilliant campaigning right there...
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Not presidential material.
tex-wyo-dem
(3,190 posts)Judgement.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Considering she seems to think that being a woman entitles her to the presidency. Don't believe me? Watch. She's offended many young women with her comments.
LittleGirl
(8,287 posts)Thanks for posting that video! #FeelTheBern!
pinebox
(5,761 posts)artislife
(9,497 posts)Women, especially under the age of 35, have worked for lots of male and female bosses. They have seen more than the one or two token women in power. They have been raised with the idea they can go for any job, do anything.
So someone who is lamenting that they are a woman and have it hard doesn't jive with their experience. Especially a woman who has been given a national identity by a husband and a job by another man. Want to talk about doing it by yourself, you have to hand it to Sarah Palin. She did it all on her own, with cobbled together education and a deep belief in her ability.
She's batshit crazy, but she is determined. That leads to the next item women have seen. Just because someone is a woman it doesn't mean they are caring and for all the little people. Not at all.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)kath
(10,565 posts)dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Great find, pinebox!
How the heck is she going to explain this one away? Shed better have a list of job titles and duties handy.
sarge43
(28,941 posts)Fast Walker 52
(7,723 posts)TIME TO PANIC
(1,894 posts)I am going to play devil's advocate here for a minute. That is the total of all salaries including the cleaning staff (mostly women), secretaries (mostly women and grossly underpaid) and women that don't have as much experience in the workforce (taking time off having kids n stuff), so naturally women aren't going to be paid as much as a group.
Now I would like to see a graph that shows salaries for men and women with like jobs and like experience. BTW I think the experience argument is bullshit, but it is what it is.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)And, if you have, please give me the link so I can go kick and recommend it.
fbc
(1,668 posts)Like Elizabeth Warren.
DownriverDem
(6,228 posts)Hillary hasn't lost me, but if Bernie wins the nomination I will vote for him. I just hope he doesn't turn out to be another George McGovern. We lost so bad that we are still suffering from it.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)The status quo, non-representative establishment is making the US a 2nd rate country.
Our Democracy is a joke. Our votes do nothing. Moneyed Interests control our reps.
We're waking up.
Its just a different era.
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)You know when someone just isnt authentic, or is off, or is obviously not buying what they themselves are selling? Its a look, body language, expressions (or lack thereof) of the face. Thats what a lot of us get with her. To those who dont I would suggest a closer look--its all there.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Very true.
Perfect recent example, of many~
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)Its aaaaalllll there.
Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)I think back then I voted for Bill half in sympathy and half cuz he wasn't a Republican.
PatrynXX
(5,668 posts)inappropriate timing, like someone in the audience at a state of the union yelling You Lie. Just dumb timing but it's the reaction of the person running for office thats key. Someone faints at a rally. Obama would yell out for help, Hillary probably would just Clap. Bernie says OMG and runs to the person. It's the LITTLE things that count. Candidates cost Marshalltown $7000 , only one single candidate paid for it. Bernie. It's the LITTLE <--- things that count. Not the BIG BIG things like flying to Flint for gosh I hope she paid for it, trip to Flint photo op. If she doesn't do well in Conservative states that would be a shocker. I assume she well. Although Texas isn't as Conservative as it used to be after Katrina.
BeyondGeography
(39,374 posts)longship
(40,416 posts)In fact, they both did damage to any narrative that supports Secy Clinton as a woman candidate.
Albright's comments were particularly odious.
I am glad to be supporting Senator Sanders.
MadDAsHell
(2,067 posts)is never a good idea.
TBF
(32,062 posts)people hate to be lectured to and told what to do. And right now they are hurting economically. They voted BIG for 2 folks who they view as anti-establishment. Trump is not a politician and Bernie is now running as a democrat but for years he has been in Congress as an Independent. I think it's a crystal clear signal that Americans are not happy with the income inequality they are experiencing. They don't trust any of the establishment candidates, and in particular the trust numbers were very low for Hillary. Jeb Bush - they won't even give him the time of day. As Bernie says: enough is enough.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I noticed that phenomenon a couple of months back and wondered if my city was just an outlier.
Doesn't appear so.
LittleGirl
(8,287 posts)remember when I ever 'liked' Hillary.
ooops.
ViseGrip
(3,133 posts)mudstump
(342 posts)are frustrated. It seems we watch as other groups make headway in civil rights yet, women's rights are under attack on a daily basis. Its time for women's rights to be front and center. Who is doing anything about the erosion of reproductive rights?