2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumExtreme Left/Right In the Pursuit of Purity is no Virtue
One of the big reasons Im for Hillary, and the Clintons in general, is indeed that they dont believe in making perfect the enemy of good. Why, given that Im a liberal on most issues? Because history has been very mean to people who run to the far left, or far-right for that matter. I like a Democrat who can win. Even if a moderate Democrat is nominated, a moderate Democrat winning is better than a progressive Democrat losing. The general electorate is not comprised of mainly ideologues.
Nate Silver says:
Lets look at history to validate this:
1964:
The Republican party nominates Barry Goldwater, who suggests that the US use low yield nuclear weapons (as opposed to high yield Hiroshima level nuclear weapons). He tried to nukesplain it as repeating a suggestion made by competent military people, and continues to do so into the election by calling nukes merely another weapon. President Lyndon Johnson successfully uses ads like this:
The results made one lucky not to be a Republican. However, this hasnt only happened to Republicans.
1972:
Democratic Party nominates George McGovern, who calls for a 37% reduction in the defense budget, larger than some other Democrats talked about, and said things that got him accused of seeking to legalize marijuana, which back then, was way out of the mainstream. (I favor legalization, but thats not the point about 1972). How did Nixon deal with him?
And were the results brutal for Democrats, progressives, and the country. Even for the flaws in Scoop Jackson or Humphrey, they wouldve been far better nominees with much greater potential to win the electoral votes needed to save us the hell of Watergate, even if military cuts werent that big.
1984:
In 1982, Democrats clobbered Republicans in the House and Senate elections: the economy still had not recovered, despite GOP mythology and the Cold War wasnt looking too good. Talk of Reagan not running again in 1984 and primary challenges were abound in 1983. Then, as Reagan did decide to seek re-election and his approvals stabilized, Democrats nominated a candidate who openly talked about broadly raising taxes (and not only on the rich) because supposed, Hart was in with big oil and generally economically less progressive than Mondale, especially on trade. Even tho Hart polled considerably and consistently better than Mondale, the purists won. Mondale reintroduced himself to America at his convention:
Cue the backlash:
The results were not kind to Walter Mondale, as he, like McGovern, only carried one state in the entire country. Running on raising taxes on people aside from the rich, which Mondale did, was then a losing formula, as it is today. Even for Harts issue with oil, he wouldve still been better than Reagan on the environment by miles, ditto on trade, another point he got hit by the purity types on.
1988:
Democrats nominate a candidate who allows himself to be painted as weak on crime and unsympathetic to victims of crime. Remember, urban crime was a huge issue back in the 1980s and one of the GOPs pre-Clinton edges. Al Gore and Dick Gephardt supported the death penalty, but not the eventual nominee Michael Dukakis. Heres what happened:
Dukakis actually did have a chance to redeem himself, given that the Horton ad aired in September, before this infamous little incident:
The results were indeed an improvement over 1984, but against a guy as WASPY as Bush I, only Billy Carter wouldve failed to achieve besting Mondale. While many states like IL, CA, CT, MO, PA, and VT were decided by less than 5.6% points, Dukakis still lost and was further behind in the rest of the states. Given that, its obvious a more moderate Democrat (especially during a time when urban crime was high and GE voters were concerned) couldve come much closer to winning, or have won. The world wouldve been saved Clarence Thomas, and of course George W. Bush, the Iraq War, John Robert, Sam Alito, and Jeb!
The lesson: nominating someone to the extreme left is a recipe for GOP disaster that can resound for decades. The former three landslide disasters I mentioned were events that Democrats worked hard to avoid again, and at the presidential level, have done.
One common trait of Goldwater, McGovern, Mondale, and Dukakis, is that they consistently had to try to explain their way out of the paper bags their far left/right orientations. While Id love for another GOPer to have to do that, I dont want to see another Democrat do it, especially given how toxic the term socialism is, or about his tax plan (the 90% thing) to the general election electorate. Bernie Sanders is indeed a good human being, but history says he would not be a good nominee, at least in terms of obtaining electoral votes.
While Donald Trump might be far-right on immigration, if given the chance to go against someone who is from and is mostly popular among mainly the far-left, Trump could easily make himself a centrist, given that he is not a biblical hell-fire man like Ted Cruz. Abortion rights, the economy, gay rights, our standing in the world, and 12 million hard working people seeking a better life, many of whom have American citizen children, ought not be tossed away in the name of purity.
Now is the time for all good Democrats to come to the aid of the party and support Hillary Clinton.
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)If so, I am well placed in the category of super duper extra radical.
The FAR right and FAR left meme is asinine, this is not about
free stuff, you either remain complacent or you fight back
to have a functioning democracy.
We need to end the corporatist control of our government. And if that makes me far left, if opposing unjust wars makes me far left, if being willing to fight the corporate machine rather than get crushed in its gears maks me far left, then so fucking be it. At least I'm fighting for my future, rather than allowing complacency and cynicism dominate my views.
Jefferson23
(30,099 posts)democracy and are willing to work for it.
The Far left Far right meme is an unsubstantiated dose of emotional drivel.
Paulie
(8,462 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)Gregorian
(23,867 posts)Cheese Sandwich
(9,086 posts)JudyM
(29,265 posts)He's only extreme in relation to how far right our party has shifted.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)when the thing being called "perfect" was actually perfect or the thing characterized as "good" was anything better than mediocre, at most. I've only ever seen it used as a lame attempt to convince people to do something they'd never consider otherwise.
Armstead
(47,803 posts)mhatrw
(10,786 posts)except among the braindead folks no Democrat would ever have a chance with.
TCJ70
(4,387 posts)...I'll stick with Bernie.
Avalux
(35,015 posts)Unfortunately, it's impossible to dress up a flawed argument.
Feel the Bern!!!
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Sorry, I'd prefer to go with my heart and head and not a muddy spreadsheet.
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)And just fyi, your branch of the Party burned out the word 'pragmatism' by using it to avoid supporting marriage equality until it became electoral suicide to oppose it. 'Oh you have to be pragmatic, not now, only civil unions because of me being a Methodist'.
Fuck. That. Noise.