Smart take from Josh Marshall

[smorkingapple]

The Obama team isn't going to try to get into a fight about whether their guy was on his game. There's no point. (This is what I meant a couple days ago when I said Obama is not a great debater. Not a great night. But I've never seen him great at debating.) What I fully expect, what they'll do if they're smart is go full court press on Romney's numbers and press for details about his budget plan.

The numbers simply don't add up. Over a few news cycles that can build up really fast. He says he'll push massive upper income tax cuts and those have to come at the cost of much higher deficits or big tax hikes for middle income people. His campaign agenda is based on a massive deception.

That's the vulnerability Romney brings out of this debate. And it may be bigger than people realize.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2012/10/my_quick_read.php?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Talking-Points-Memo+%28Talking+Points+Memo%3A+by+Joshua+Micah+Marshall%29

I agree with this. I assume this may have been part of the Obama strategy all along but he did mess up by not only getting Romney to say things he could nail him later on, but nail him right then and there. Now let's see if they use these openings effectively.

[Cha]

1. Thanks smokingapple

[INdemo]

2. With all the hate being spread ,with all the lies being promoted by the Repuke spinsters

and with Rmoney's overwhelming perform ace President Obama has had a major set back..Unless President Obama bounces back big time tonights debate probably won the election for Rmoney. All the false facts will now stick for Rmoney..because if those false facts were not disputed tonight then it becomes a bigger problem for Obama to turn those false facts back against Romney later.
So yes there are more debates but with early voting now this could definitely have been the game changer for Rmoney. For me ..well I just started drawing my Soc Security so for me I probably should not get use to that income.

[lalalu]

4. I disagree

Romney came across as aggressive, smarmy, and a liar. There are some people who initially respond to that positively but such behavior always backfires.

[MADem]

6. Blinking constantly--those freshly dyed eyelashes were flittering morse code!

The dyed eyebrows were offputting, too.

[calimary]

12. I hope you don't mind - I just stole your kitty sig line!

I've loved that kitty sneaking away with the card or whatever it is, for a long time! I think it'll make me feel a little better.

[Swagman]

18. love that little kitty pic..spotted it before

[calimary]

13. Welcome to DU, lalalu!

Glad you're here - we REALLY need you now! Gotta protect that lead at all costs. This thing isn't won yet.





Now get to work.

[INdemo]

16. Well i have been watching Presidential politics since 1960

and it just seems to me that once Obama lost that ground it going to be very difficult to make up....But I hope you are right.

[AverageJoe90]

17. Definitely didn't win this for Romney. No way. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

23. If all it took was one crappy debate to sink an incumbent, Bush would have lost in 2004.

I don't think this is going to be a "game changer" for Rmoney.

[INdemo]

27. Thats true...guess I was quick to judge

and it may just be the president played this just right by allowing Rmoney to rattle on.

[adigal]

31. No way!! Obama is up 8 to 10 points in Ohio

Many, many people would have to change their minds and the unintelligent Undecideds are a very small part of the electorate at this point. Really, take a deep breath, and maybe volunteer to phone bank, do something positive.

Me, I am giving Obama another donation today, in honor of the Sociopath Romney.

[lalalu]

3. Already it is starting

The one common theme I have seen is the number of people who were amazed at how casually Romney blatantly lied. I have even read posts where people thought it was creepy.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

9. Romney and Ryan are both great at casually lying

Completely. Conscienceless. I'd think it would worry most people.

[MADem]

5. Romney wants to KILL BIG BIRD. Tell all the kiddies on Sesame Street THAT!

Tell all the Downton Abbey fans that they can't get their fix, because Mittsy's gonna make their screens go dark! Goodbye, Masterpiece Theater!

What a jerk he is!

[JDPriestly]

11. That right there will lose the election for Romney. People rely on PBS and Public Radio.

There are a number of great take-outs for the Obama campaign from the debate.

Obama was not aggressive, but since the polls show him ahead, he was wise to be just a bit slow on the attack. Obama is strong because he is so likeable. Romney's weakness is that he is arrogant and such a know-it-all.

I thought Obama made a great point about Abraham Lincoln.

We often talk about how the Republicans want to destroy the FDR new deal. Tonight Obama reminded us that in truth the Republicans want to destroy everything good that has been done since the beginning of Abraham Lincoln's term -- the end of slavery, land grant colleges, national rail lines (Abraham Lincoln), trust-busting (Teddy Roosevelt). There isn't much left of FDR's New Deal already.

[russ1943]

7. Rmoney will get a bump.

First, I’m an Obama supporter. Second Rmoney won the first debate. Third even when those people who are fact checkers point out that Rmoney’s words contained serious distortions and numerous unchallenged mis statements of facts, the damage will have been done. This hurts. I don’t see this as fatal but a quote attributed to Mark Twain, “A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes” seems appropriate. Too many will have seen and heard the debate, not so many will see or hear those checked facts.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

15. I must reluctantly agree with your assessment and it pains me to do so.

So many lies, so little rebuttal.

[DallasNE]

22. Who Fact Checks The Fact Checkers

The WP "fact checker" likes the they all do it approach. While they pointed out that Romney's statement that there are 23 million unemployed was not true they also said that Obama's statement he would reduce the deficit by $4 trillion was not true because some of that will happen regardless, like the troops coming home from Afghanistan. But that is a policy decision and Obama deserves credit because Romney would not bring these troops home so those savings will not be there under Romney. The WP fact checker got this one wrong but they had to come up with something to show that they all do it. Shameful.

[Indpndnt]

26. They'll sure as hell see the commercials of Willard's lies from day to day about his positions.

Video of him lying at the debate and then video of him telling just the opposite the other day to his supporters.

Not that it matters. The only video that truly matters is the 47% video. He'll never bounce back from that. Ever.

[magic59]

8. The biggest mistake the President made was not going medieval on the fascists

his first day in office instead of being Mr. can't we all get along. Maybe then we would have health care now instead of waiting years for it to implement and other improvements that the fascist party wouldn't dare to take down.

[tblue]

10. Is he keeping his powder dry?

STILL? Some of us have been begging him not to for years. Any day now. Still pulling for you, Mr. President. But don't make us wait too long.

[INdemo]

33. If Rmoney wins we will become a fascist state..

Every thing the Democrats have worked for for the last 100 years is done,finished..Unions done .pensions,done Social Security and Medicare ..history. The Republicans have been trying to accomplish this goal for 60 years..And one bad ruling by the Supreme Court has put them over the top.. Citizens United just became our Emperor..We are the Corporate States of America.
And it is shameful because there are Democrats out there and others,union members,seniors and more that simply wont vote for Obama because he is black..These people need to wake up and realize just what we stand to lose.

[radical noodle]

14. We have a saying around here...

You can't get into a pissing contest with a skunk.

Since Romney is a good liar (possibly a pathological one since he does it with such a flair) if Obama calls him on it, Romney just continues to lie through his teeth. I'm not sure how anyone can deal with someone who lies so easily and doesn't care at all if what he says today matches what he says tomorrow. My guess is that the next debate will be quite different.

[smorkingapple]

19. I'm thinking Biden calls him on the lies next week.

He can do it and get away with it. For some reason, the Obama campaign must have focus tested that calling Romney a liar directly doesnt test well.

[Fuddnik]

24. I'm looking forward to Biden-Ryan.

Biden will eat him for lunch.

I don't know Ryan. But I know he's a despicable piece of shit. OTOH, I've had the opportunity to talk with Biden for a few hours. He's very smart and a genuinely likable guy. But, he'll kick Ryan in the nuts in a heartbeat.

[DallasNE]

20. Style Versus Substance

Republican commentators are absolutely giddy about Romney's performance tonight. That is their perogative. The debate I saw can best be described by a Republican pundit when he said “Our specifics will be general in nature,”. That and what was the wild blinking of the eyes by Romney -- it reminded me of Gore's constant sighing. While I don't think Obama kicked Romney's butt I think when people sleep on this the analysis will change because focus will shift from style to substance. Romney went for style and Obama went for substance.

[colsohlibgal]

21. Go Figure

It's odd that Obama, with his public speaking skills, is not so good at debating.

Part of the problem tonight is likely he was told by his advisers to be reserved and "presidential". I hope they know what they're doing.

Whatever, we had real momentum going and this looks like it might really harsh that buzz....hopefully temporarily.

I would hope, in the next 2, that Obama decides to play harball....but a plus is I fully expect Biden to eat that smarmy liar Ryan for lunch, he won't bring a dinner knife to a gunfight like his boss.

[Beowulf]

25. rope a dope

There are two more debates and four weeks of campaigning. Can Romney keep the lies going at such a pace? I'm guessing the Obama people are banking that Romney will punch himself out. Romney's tactics may have been good ones for winning one debate, but can they keep that deception going through two more debates and month of news cycles? I rather doubt it.

[bucolic_frolic]

28. Romney will sell off the National Parks and Federal Lands

and all the government buildings to pay for one years budget

And he'll sell them off to his political contributors

[bucolic_frolic]

29. Romney is Doing Exactly What George W Bush did to Al Gore

Romney is clinging to Obama on the issues, redefining himself.
Obama must not let that slide any further.

Bush sounded like Gore in 2000. Appear presidential and
reframe. At times you couldn't tell the difference between
the candidates. We all knew Bush was lying, but it does fool
the marginal voter, those who don't really know the issues.

Romney is trying to grab some of Obama's popularity, have it
rub off on him.

Don't let him get away with it, or he'll steal the election.

[Jersey Devil]

30. Feels good to have Josh Marshall confirm what I thought

In 2008 I thought Obama was not a very good debater and this was no different than his performance then. The only thing that changed was that his opponent was much more skilled at debating than McCain.

I was very dispirited after the first debate in 2008 and couldn't believe that Obama, who can give a speech with the best of them, including Big Dawg, was so poor at debating.

But in the long run, as Josh Marshall says, those pesky facts might get in the way of Romney and turn it to an advantage for Obama.

[CreoleCarl]

32. Agreed with Mitts deception

President Obama stumbled last night. It is a stumble, not a fall. Mitt will make more mistakes in the coming days, others have noted that Biden will be able to use the lack of detail and the deception of Mitt against Paul next week. This is a campaign, one event does always sink your chances on winning. Like others in this thread, my support is still for the president, let the fact checkers continue to hammer Mitt on his several misrepresentations and lack of details. I too am going to go online and give a little more to the President's campaign.

[toby jo]

34. Hope to see some ads with Mitty's words coming out one way

and then the other, depending on where and when. That's what you turn last nights pile of shit into.

I live in Ohio and they've started ads on the coal fiasco, showing the coal miners who were forced to attend Mitty's speech
as props. Sure hope they get on this one - the guy hung himself, but the rope needs yanked.