Hillary Clinton tweaks her 'safe, legal and rare' abortion mantra

[cali]

Is Hillary Clinton recalibrating her position on abortion as she seeks the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination?

It sure looks that way. In her last presidential run in 2008, Clinton said that she thought abortion should be “safe, legal and rare, and by rare, I mean rare.” She added that abortion “should not in any way be diminished as a moral issue,” and portrayed the choice to have an abortion as a wrenching one for “a young woman, her family, her physician and [her] pastor.”

But questioned on Sunday on ABC’s “This Week” about a claim by Sen. Marco Rubio that “she believes that all abortions should be legal, even on the due date of that unborn child,” Clinton replied: “You know, I’ve been on record for many years about where I stand on abortion, how it should be safe and legal and I have the same position that I’ve had for a very long time.”

So what happened to “rare”?

<snip>
It's likely that Clinton’s sharpening of her pro-choice stance will help her in the Democratic primaries. It might not be such an asset in a general election — in which (assuming she’s the nominee) she might rediscover “rare.”


<snip>

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-hillaryclinton-abortion-campaign-20160209-story.html

[ProudToBeLiberal]

1. Come on cali. are you serious? nt

[cali]

4. Fact. She used the safe, legal and rare mantra for over 20 years

No longer.

[beam me up scottie]

10. Hillary was called out for that language years ago.

She also pandered to anti-abortion zealots, supported a ban on late term abortions and promoted abstinence-only education. Her tune will change again if she wins the nomination.

She is a weathervane.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

11. President Barack Obama has evolved on many issues like gay marriage.

Why are you applying a double standard to Hillary Clinton?

[beam me up scottie]

14. What does Obama have to do with this issue?

And why are you giving her a pass on it?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

16. I don't think anythings wrong when you encourage people to use birth control.

That falls in line with the rare safe and legal argument. I support plan b and other contraceptives.

[beam me up scottie]

20. Do you think it's acceptable to pander to anti-choice zealots, support a ban on late term abortions

and abstinence-only education?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

21. Can you stop putting words in my mouth. ty. nt

[beam me up scottie]

23. I didn't, I asked you a question. Can you please answer it?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

25. Nope, last time when this happened, you got my post hidden. Nice try. nt

[beam me up scottie]

26. What? The last time I asked you a question I got your post hidden?

How does that work exactly?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

28. Ok, I see you didn't deny it. nt

[beam me up scottie]

29. Deny what? I have no idea what you're talking about.

How does asking you a question lead to a hidden post?

And coming from someone who admits they alert constantly and posts the results don't you think such false accusations are a tad bit hypocritical?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

30. Fine, I'll take the bait.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1133175

[beam me up scottie]

32. That wasn't my alert and I have no idea why it was hidden.

Why do you think answering the above questions will lead to a hide?

[ProudToBeLiberal]

34. So, you agree that hide wasn't warranted? Are we friends again? nt

[beam me up scottie]

37. Your definition of "friends" must be different than mine.

Since I don't know why your post was alerted or hidden I can't speculate. Perhaps they thought you were making things too personal.

[beam me up scottie]

44. Are you going to answer my questions now?

[one_voice]

38. Wow! I'd love to see the results on that one.

[ProudToBeLiberal]

39. It was 4-3 :/. nt

[one_voice]

42. I can't figure out some of the jury results.

Some have really left me scratching my head.

[beam me up scottie]

40. I'll post some of the 7-0 results from my alert stalkers, perhaps we can compare notes.

[one_voice]

41. What?

[beam me up scottie]

43. Were you not implying that the poster was unfairly targeted?

I thought I'd add a little perspective.

[one_voice]

47. No, I wasn't. I said I'd like to see the

results on that hide. Questioning one hide doesn't imply someone is being targeted.

If that were the case I'd have implied half of DU was being targeted at some point.

My perspective is fine, thank you.

[kath]

22. Oh, yeah. If, god forbid (shudder) she wins the nomination, the word "rare"will come back so fast it

Will make your head spin.

[VulgarPoet]

2. So... Political expedience has spun to include third-trimester abortion.

I'm pro-choice, but even I think third trimester, you're encroaching upon shaky ground without good reason. Hm.

[haikugal]

5. I would venture that

A third trimester wouldn't be done without good reason...why don't you trust women?

Hillary will bring back the rare when it suits her.

[VulgarPoet]

24. It's just her I don't trust.

Wasn't the best way to phrase that thought, I suppose. No doubt you're right about the third-trimesters, just trying to make sense of why drop it when she's been saying it so long.

[haikugal]

35. She knows it isn't the support for choice she wants us to believe it is.

It's all good...thanks for fleshing out your thoughts!

[VulgarPoet]

36. It takes me a little while to get my thoughts down.

Specially on what feels like essentially "second Monday". Thanks for not jumping down my throat about it, though

[arcane1]

3. "And pastor"?

Awfully narrow

[dorkzilla]

7. Yeah that’s gross

I’m an atheist. That’s bullshit. And pastor my ass.

[el_bryanto]

15. Is the issue that there are many religions that don't have pastors?

Or that she mentioned that some would consult with a religious figure at all?

Bryant

[arcane1]

17. Singling out pastors is what seemed odd to me.

I imagine it can be a tough situation for other religions as well.

[NCTraveler]

6. Seriously? lol. I know of only one group who take issue with Clinton on this issue. nt.

[azurnoir]

9. Then you ain't lookin too hard

[azurnoir]

8. I suspect Hillary tweaks many things depending on who she is addressing

[bettyellen]

18. like Bernie urging firemen to set aside the abortion issue, because their pocketbooks?

He went there. And is motivating many people not through any exalted views on justice, but by money.

[azurnoir]

31. Link?

[bettyellen]

46. "He also seems willing to put some of those ongoing inequalities ahead of women’s rights...

.... at least in front of certain audiences. In a recent speech before members of the International Association of Fire Fighters (IAFF), Sanders said:

'I know that there are differences in this room on abortion, on gay marriage, on guns, whatever it may be. Fine, let’s have our differences. But when it comes to whether or not our kids can go to college, whether or not we’re going to make it easier for workers to join unions, whether or not we’re going to have a trade policy which creates jobs in this country or whether it creates jobs in China, whether or not college is affordable, whether or not all Americans are entitled to health care as a right, let us stand together and not be divided.'"

the whole article is really good.

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/06/03/matters-bernie-sanders-doesnt-talk-race-gender/

[azurnoir]

48. and what was wrong with what Bernie said? at least HE addressed the issues there may be

differences not so much with Hillary

[bettyellen]

50. you may not give a shit about a woman's right to control her body- but for me.....

minimizing that concern is fucking beyond the pale. money does not trump civil rights issues in my book, never will.

[azurnoir]

55. he did not minimize anything he said Dems should put their differences aside and work together

the rest is your own rather hyperbolic spin

[bettyellen]

57. I know, he was for Planned Parenthood before he bashed them last month.

[azurnoir]

62. so you're saying he is against women's reproductive rights now?

you do realize your link was from last June?

[beam me up scottie]

49. What's wrong with that? Did he try to find "common ground" with anti-abortion zealots?

Clinton Seeking Shared Ground Over Abortions

ALBANY, Jan. 24 - Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton said on Monday that the opposing sides in the divisive debate over abortion should find "common ground" to prevent unwanted pregnancies and ultimately reduce abortions, which she called a "sad, even tragic choice to many, many women."

In a speech to about 1,000 abortion rights supporters near the New York State Capitol, Mrs. Clinton firmly restated her support for the Supreme Court's ruling in Roe v. Wade, which legalized abortion nationwide in 1973. But then she quickly shifted gears, offering warm words to opponents of legalized abortion and praising the influence of "religious and moral values" on delaying teenage girls from becoming sexually active.

"There is an opportunity for people of good faith to find common ground in this debate -- we should be able to agree that we want every child born in this country to be wanted, cherished and loved," Mrs. Clinton said.

Mrs. Clinton's remarks were generally well received, though the audience was silent during most of her overtures to anti-abortion groups. Afterward, leaders of those groups were skeptical, given Mrs. Clinton's outspoken support for abortion rights over the years.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/25/nyregion/clinton-seeking-shared-ground-over-abortions.html

[bettyellen]

52. because she is trying to get them to accept more birth control- when sadly-

even that is a contentious idea among the RW. She is actually working pro-abortion there, and not gutlessly shoving the issue aside, as if it lacked importance? It ain't easy in our political climate- and it is tempting to take the easy way out and ask to table it.

I will guess you don't have half the concerns about the supreme court that I do either.

[beam me up scottie]

53. Wrong, she was promoting religious based abstinence-only programs.

And that wasn't the only time:

Teen abstinence is the right thing to do

Reaffirming her support for what used to be called teen celibacy Hillary reminded us that the point is to find out if it works. This is how Senator Clinton put it, in a paragraph I never saw quoted in the press.

"Research shows that the primary reason that teenage girls abstain is because of their religious and moral values. We should embrace this--and support programs that reinforce the idea that abstinence at a young age is not just the smart thing to do, it is the right thing to do. But we should also recognize what works and what doesn't work, and to be fair, the jury is still out on the effectiveness of abstinence-only programs. I don't think this debate should be about ideology, it should be about facts and evidence--we have to deal with the choices young people make, not just the choice we wish they would make."

Source: The Case for Hillary Clinton, by Susan Estrich, p. 55 , Oct 17, 2005

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Families_+_Children.htm

I will guess you don't have half the concerns about the supreme court that I do either.

The day you have more cred on abortion rights than me is the day you can question my dedication.

Bernie is better on this issue, he never supported bans on late term abortions or abstinence-only education. He trusts women - period.

[bettyellen]

56. "the jury is still out on the effectiveness of abstinence-only programs. "

" I don't think this debate should be about ideology, it should be about facts and evidence--we have to deal with the choices young people make, not just the choice we wish they would make."

She is trying to talk sense into religious zealots who are firmly anti- abortion. That is politics. She has tirelessly and vocally advocated for expanding women's reproductive health care.
When Bernie tells Firemen no one should worry their little heads about women's civil rights- it is in a whole other context. He did not have to set aside the fight for women's civil rights like that.

[beam me up scottie]

59. There is no common ground with religious nuts when it comes to abstinence-only education.

Those programs lead to pregnancies, stds and shame young women for being human.

How anyone can defend them is beyond me.

[frylock]

63. Maybe she can get Barstool Palin to stump for her..

and share her wisdom on abstinence-only.

[beam me up scottie]

64. Yeah she's the poster child for them.

Unfortunately unintended pregnancies aren't the worst thing that Will happen to kids who don't practice safe sex, AIDS and cervical cancer will kill many.

[beam me up scottie]

45. You mean he's asking voters to set aside their differences and vote Democratic?

Don't all Dems do that?

[bettyellen]

58. He did not make my civil rights a priority over their paychecks.

And that is a problem.

[beam me up scottie]

61. How did he not make "your" civil rights a priority? When did he vote against them?

When did he ever not support women's rights?

Obama asked Republicans to support him, he called them Obamacans, did he not make "your" civil rights a priority too?

[PeaceNikki]

12. Good, I have long wanted her to drop the "rare". The Democratic Party platform did in 2008.

And I take politicians to task who use it.

[bettyellen]

19. I know, this is a good thing.

[kath]

54. it's good to drop the "rare", but who doesn't think it will be back in a flash if she should get the

Nomination?
Her "stance" on issues is always highly variable, depending on whom she is addressing.
Weathervane to the max.

[PeaceNikki]

60. If that happens, I will definitely hold her accountable as well.

[Eric J in MN]

13. Please use the excerpt tag, and post a link to the source.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/opinion-la/la-ol-hillaryclinton-abortion-campaign-20160209-story.html

[riversedge]

27. Cali-it is shameful that you are questioning Hillary's stance on Abortion-Leave that to the

Republicans.

[beam me up scottie]

33. Why is she above reproach?

Late term abortion only if life or health are at risk

Q: Are there circumstances when the government should limit choice?

LAZIO: I had a pro-choice record in the House, and I believe in a woman’s right to choose. I support a ban on partial-birth abortions. Senator Moynihan called it “infanticide.” Even former mayor Ed Koch agreed that this was too extreme a procedure. This is an area where I disagree with my opponent. My opponent opposes a ban on partial-birth abortions.

CLINTON: My opponent is wrong. I have said many times that I can support a ban on late-term abortions, including partial-birth abortions, so long as the health and life of the mother is protected. I’ve met women who faced this heart-wrenching decision toward the end of a pregnancy. Of course it’s a horrible procedure. No one would argue with that. But if your life is at stake, if your health is at stake, if the potential for having any more children is at stake, this must be a woman’s choice.

Source: Senate debate in Manhattan , Oct 8, 2000

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Hillary_Clinton_Abortion.htm

Fyi "partial birth abortion" is a right wing term.

[cali]

51. River, that's bulloney. I posted a factual article

about her position and how what she is choosing to emphasize has changed.

I am not questioning anything. Shameful of you to put words in my mouth.

[ljm2002]

65. “a young woman, her family, her physician and pastor.”

Clinton's words conjure up an image of a Rockwell-esque America, where young women can discuss such matters with their family, and actually have either a regular physician or pastor. Certainly that is often not the case.

Apart from that, if the choice is "a wrenching one" for not just her, but for "her family, her physician and pastor", then what happened to "the woman's choice, period, end of sentence."?

Furthermore, it artfully leaves out any reference to the father, be it a boyfriend, husband, or other less savory possibilities. Well maybe that is how it should be, legally, if our principle is that it is the woman's choice, period.

But the carefully chosen words are effective -- they paint a picture of a secure America, a place where young women are wrapped in the bosom of a caring and orderly family and society that will take care of them, pat pat, there there, rock-a-bye baby... and don't forget the end of that dark lullaby...

[MisterP]

66. will she disengage from The Family?