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Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 02:06 PM Feb 2016

FACT CHECK: Do NH primary voters really favor politicians from neighboring states?

It turns out that they do, when they are from Massachusetts. What do Mitt Romney, John Kerry, Paul Tsongas, Michael Dukakis, John F. Kennedy and Henry Cabot Lodge, Jr all have in common, aside from them all having won the New Hampshire Primary? Yep, all of them came from Massachusetts. New Hampshire directly neighbors three states with Massachusetts being one of them. Prior to this year, since World War II, only two major candidates have competed in New Hampshire from a neighboring state other than Massachusetts, with split results. Vermont Governor Howard Dean lost in 2004 to John Kerry, and Maine Senator Ed Muskie defeated George McGovern in 1972. It should be noted though that Muskie was the national favorite to win the Democratic nomination for president prior to competing in the NH primary that year, having impressed many as the Democratic Vice Presidential candidate four years earlier.

It should be no surprise why politicians from Massachusetts tend to do well in New Hampshire primaries. The driving distance between the largest city in Massachusetts – Boston (population 617,594 per 2010 census) and the largest city in New Hampshire - Manchester (population 109,565 per 2010 census) is all of 53 miles. New Hampshire's second largest city - Nashua (population 86,494 per 2010 census) is a 46 mile drive from Boston. In fact New Hampshire's 10 largest cities are clustered together in the southeastern section of the state, in close proximity to Boston.

Vermont's largest city Burlington (population 42,417 per 2010 census) is located in the northwest section of that state, a 165 mile drive from Manchester New Hampshire. Manchester is officially a part of the Boston Media Market, which is the 7th largest in the nation. Burlington is officially a part of the Burlington – Plattsburgh (NY) media market, which is the 98th largest in the nation. Boston Magazine notes “The Boston media market is so strong that it bleeds into all of southern New Hampshire and stretches as far north as Keene and Laconia.”

Burlington's media market however only reaches into the Connecticut River Valley of New Hampshire, which lies along the border with Vermont. Any internet search for population density maps of New Hampshire quickly yields results showing how sparsely settled that area is compared to the Southeastern New Hampshire region (here's a link to one such map)
http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/united-states/quick-facts/new-hampshire/population-density#map

Here is some germane information: “New Hampshire Public Radio reported that as of mid-December (2015), the Boston broadcast stations ran 45 percent of total political ads for the New Hampshire primary, compared to 47 percent for WMUR (New Hampshire's only network affiliate) and 8 percent for WBIN, a new New Hampshire-based news station. The Boston broadcasters took in $31.5 million in political ad revenue, compared to $21.4 million for WMUR and $850,000 for WBIN, according to New Hampshire Public Radio.

Lesperance said the Boston stations are important since New Hampshire's population is concentrated in the southern third of the state. "Most, if not all, of those folks have access to Boston television stations, radio, newspapers," Lesperance said. "It does have an impact. It does play a role. A lot of New Hampshire primary voters get at least some of their information from the Boston media market." http://www.masslive.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/12/boston_broadcasters_rake_in_ca.html

There is something else that Boston's proximity to New Hampshire' population centers contributes to determining winning primary candidates – foot power. For example Boston Mayor Marty Walsh pledged this year to bring a thousand volunteers with him up from Boston to do door knocking for Hillary Clinton. But is there any evidence to show that a leading candidate from Vermont has any advantage competing in New Hampshire compared to the prospects for a typical candidate who comes from a state that doesn't border New Hampshire? Well there is this reporting from much earlier in the 2016 election cycle, from June of 2015 to be precise:

“Hillary feels the #Bern
http://www.politico.com/story/2015/06/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-new-hampshire-vermont-119131

...Two polls this week showed the Vermont independent polling over 30 percent in his neighboring New England state, just 10 to 12 percentage points behind front-runner Clinton — a big leap from his 15 point to 18 point showing in various polls in recent weeks.

A closer look at the polling shows the distinctive outline of Sanders’ support in New Hampshire: In the Suffolk poll, he beats Clinton by more than 20 points in the northern and western parts of the state — the liberal counties that border Vermont and are reached by the Burlington media market, the city where Sanders served four terms as mayor.

It’s an area that’s known for its anti-establishment streak. “They are loyal voters and they really don’t care what’s going on in the rest of the state,” said David Paleologos, who conducted the Suffolk poll. He noted that Howard Dean — the last Vermonter to run for president and who made a strong challenge to John Kerry in New Hampshire in 2004 — received early and strong support from the Connecticut River Valley.

The story is different on the other side of the state. In the two most populous counties — Hillsborough and Rockingham, which make up roughly half of the electorate — Clinton is up big. Sanders is down almost 30 percent in the Seacoast region — the southeastern part of the state that is farthest from Vermont.”

So a case can be made from the above that Bernie Sanders gained a small and geographically limited advantage in this years New Hampshire Democratic primary through exposure he received in the far west of New Hampshire via the Burlington – Plattsburgh (NY) media market. But the same reporting clearly establishes the far greater importance and penetration of the Boston media market inside New Hampshire. Boston media reporting is national media reporting when it isn't focused locally on Boston itself, and national media, until a few weeks ago, gave far greater coverage to Hillary Clinton than it did to Bernie Sanders.

In summary the political spin that New Hampshire favors politicians from neighboring states when it comes to its presidential primaries is extremely misleading if not totally false. Political figures from Massachusetts do enjoy some significant advantages inside New Hampshire, but they are largely unique to Massachusetts however. In the case of this year's Sanders vs Clinton NH contest any small benefits Bernie Sanders may receive by virtue of being from neighboring Vermont are more than offset by the fact that, unlike Bernie Sanders, Hillary Clinton has already run and won a statewide election campaign inside of New Hampshire prior to this year's primary. Not to mention that Hillary Clinton has won Gallups annual poll for the most admired woman in the world every year since 1997 with the exception of 2001 when Laura Bush was chosen instead.

14 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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FACT CHECK: Do NH primary voters really favor politicians from neighboring states? (Original Post) Tom Rinaldo Feb 2016 OP
I said several times the two don't share a media market Fawke Em Feb 2016 #1
A lot of people know it Tom Rinaldo Feb 2016 #2
Very accurate assessment newblewtoo Feb 2016 #3
The Seacoast region AKA the $$$$ region. bunnies Feb 2016 #7
This completely misses the point firebrand80 Feb 2016 #4
Actually I don't miss that pont Tom Rinaldo Feb 2016 #6
14 delegates is not insignificant. morningfog Feb 2016 #9
Howard Dean and John Kerry came in 2nd and 1st in NH in 2004 frazzled Feb 2016 #5
Good grief. in_cog_ni_to Feb 2016 #8
You have an N of two mythology Feb 2016 #10
"when your example that failed lost to a candidate from Massachusetts." Tom Rinaldo Feb 2016 #11
"Do NH primary voters really favor politicians from neighboring states?" malokvale77 Feb 2016 #12
Kick -to counter the bullshit SPIN. kath Feb 2016 #13
Yup, I'm expecting it within an hour or so. n/t Tom Rinaldo Feb 2016 #14

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
1. I said several times the two don't share a media market
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 02:25 PM
Feb 2016

and the states are very different.

But, I'd know that since I'm married to a New Englander.

Thanks for the thread, Tom.

newblewtoo

(667 posts)
3. Very accurate assessment
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 02:28 PM
Feb 2016

when looking at this paragraph based on what I saw at our poll (Rockingham county)

The story is different on the other side of the state. In the two most populous counties — Hillsborough and Rockingham, which make up roughly half of the electorate — Clinton is up big. Sanders is down almost 30 percent in the Seacoast region — the southeastern part of the state that is farthest from Vermont.”


Also, Clinton has the support of both the Governor and Senator who usually have a great GOTV organization. Although I did not talk with poll workers there did seem to be an unusually large Republican turnout in our normally strong Democratic ward. I will want to see the vote tallies on this one tomorrow.

firebrand80

(2,760 posts)
4. This completely misses the point
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 02:34 PM
Feb 2016

It's about influencing the media narrative, which influences perception.

Bernie Sanders and Marco Rubio both spun IA losses into wins.

If we want to talk "reality," Bernie will win an insignificant amount of delegates in NH. I suspect that fine detail will be left out of tonight's victory speech.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
6. Actually I don't miss that pont
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 02:42 PM
Feb 2016

That point is why I compiled this. Call it counter spin if you must but it s what I can do on my part to keep the record straight.

frazzled

(18,402 posts)
5. Howard Dean and John Kerry came in 2nd and 1st in NH in 2004
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 02:36 PM
Feb 2016

Dean was winning there by large margins in polls until his poor showing in Iowa. I worked NH for 5 or 6 months solid in the 2004 primaries, and the prevailing notion among the various campaigns there was that Dean would carry certain portions of the state, while Kerry would take the southeastern (more populous) places. New Englanders DO tend to stick together. It's not at all about media markets. It's about regional pride, in addition to the other stuff.

That part of New England is a tiny place. When we lived in the Boston area we were constantly in NH, Vermont, and even Maine. Heck, my husband rode his bicycle from NH to lower Maine.

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
10. You have an N of two
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 03:56 PM
Feb 2016

Trying to make a case on that is really silly, especially when your example that failed lost to a candidate from Massachusetts.

The demographics of New Hampshire favor Sanders. Those demographics are the same as Vermont. That's why Sanders is going to win in New Hampshire.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,913 posts)
11. "when your example that failed lost to a candidate from Massachusetts."
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 04:07 PM
Feb 2016

But that is the point - the bulk of NH voters live within range of being called bedroom suburbs of Massachusetts. There is a clear NH/MA axis - not so with VT. If you don't think media markets matter you are welcome to that opinion. Arguing demographics is a different point, but why should Hillary not do well with the NH demographics?

malokvale77

(4,879 posts)
12. "Do NH primary voters really favor politicians from neighboring states?"
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 05:54 PM
Feb 2016

Not likely. NH is the home of the Free State Project.

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