"...The Clinton campaign, in a matter of days, has completely lost its soul..."

[GreatGazoo]

In the period of a weekend, following a vigorous Democratic primary debate, Hillary and her big name supporters have not only brought the campaign down to Republican strategy levels, but they’ve ruined the reputations of three heretofore well-respected liberal public figures. Yes, ruined. Say what you will, but how does one excuse this level of base prevarication, hyperbole and misogyny from anyone on the Left? Like Mel Gibson and Bill Cosby discovered, once you publicly reveal an extremely nasty and hateful personality, you don’t go back. You may have a few friends who will continue to support you, but to everybody else, you’re on your way to pariah.

You could see this coming, to some extent. During the debate last week, immediately after Secretary Clinton began her “artful smear” attack, there was an audible gasp from the audience and an angry and outraged look across Bernie Sanders’ face. Only minutes later, however, after Sanders continued to reiterate his claim that Goldman Sachs’ and Wall Street’s huge campaign contributions to politicians were genuinely corrupting, Clinton was stuttering, seemingly stunned that Sanders would not relent the position. She expected, perhaps, that he would give her an out on the biggest plank in his platform? Such an assumption is absurd and naive. This was Rocky II, and Apollo was taking rib-shattering punches to the gut. That’s who Rocky is. That’s who Sanders is. He had Clinton clinching, calling for the referee to stop the fight.

From that moment, Clinton couldn’t figure out how to put an end to the Sanders’ critique of her campaign contributions. How could she? The same day Albright was making her cynical remarks, Carl Bernstein appeared on CNN and seemed to genuinely startle anchor Poppy Harlow, “I spent part of this weekend talking to people in the White House. They are horrified at how Hillary Clinton is blowing up her own campaign.” Harlow made a very concerned face and asked what they were saying. Bernstein continued:

“…they are horrified that the whole business of the transcripts, accepting the money, that she could blow the Democrats’ chance for the White House… These ethical lapses have tied the White House up in knots. They don’t know what to do. They’re beside themselves. Now, you’ve got a situation with these transcripts a little like Richard Nixon and his tapes that he stonewalled and didn’t release.”

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/2/8/1481801/-I-m-Not-with-Her-Hillary-s-Media-Wipeout-Just-Ended-the-Clinton-Era

Terrible strategy moves by Team Clinton.

[RiverLover]

1. The end of the Clinton Era

Please, let that be so.

Democrats need to be Democrats again.


Fantastic Op-ed, thanks for posting it here!

[thereismore]

24. I thought 2008 was the end of that. Apparently not. nt

[bvar22]

99. ....but....but....but....

.....she has so much "experience",
and she can get "things" done!~!~!~!!
.
.
. and
...and
...and
she has a vagina!!!!!

[passiveporcupine]

107. Are you trying to get labeled a Bernie Bro?

Please stop with the vagina terminology. I know you don't have one, but I do and you don't need to be vulgar to get your point across.

And no I don't think vaginas are vulgar...but this usage is.

[bvar22]

111. Then the Hillary Campaign and supporters should STFU about it.

My post is only a mild satire of what Hillary herself has said in front of the WORLD during the 1st Debate. Gloria Steinem should also STFU about this being the reason to vote for Hillary.
...and I KNOW you have seen that exact same reasoning posted to DU numerous times.

As long as the Hillary Campaign and her supporters keep stating that THAT is the reason to vote for her, I WILL keep ridiculing them...because that is stupid beyond belief. Sarah Palin also has a vagina (I guess).

YOU tell the Hillary campaign and supporters how "vulgar" you find that Campaign Talking Point.
When I see YOU post that here, I will reconsider.

[passiveporcupine]

112. I call out Hillary supporters all the time for ugly stuff they say

Last edited Tue Feb 9, 2016, 08:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Bernie himself has asked us to stop this vile use of sexist language by Bernie Bros that is being used by the Hillary camp against us. It isn't helping.

I understand your need and desire to ridicule. There are better ways to do it.

Please consider this. I am not angry with you. Just asking you to respect Bernie enough to ramp it back a bit.

[PatrynXX]

113. well if a female uses it

but yes she should shut up about it

[bigwillq]

134. I hope.

Can't stand the Clintons. So phony.

[tazkcmo]

2. I watched that interview.

What I found more disturbing than Sec Clinton's tactics was this: "“…they are horrified...They don’t know what to do. They’re beside themselves." The WH REALLY, REALLY, REALLY wants Sec Clinton and even more REALLY are afraid of Sanders. This speaks volumes to me and only solidifies my support for that "whacky socialist".

[tazkcmo]

12. Not so much what year but

What income bracket and where does that income come from. Yes, definitely out of touch and finally waking up (but too late) to their sudden demise.

[hibbing]

57. Yes

When you have a definition by some of middle class being an income of 250K, it does seem a bit out of touch.


Peace

[cui bono]

87. They really need to differentiate the amount by city/area.

For a family of four living in NYC or San Francisco or Los Angeles, that income really is about middle class. But for other areas you would be upper class for sure.

.

[Art_from_Ark]

125. Depends on what parts of those cities one is living in

For example, 250K is Beverly Hills might not be so much, but 250K in Watts or Compton is big bucks.

[cui bono]

127. But even there the rent is going to be much higher than the equivalent in a small town.

And the difference in neighborhoods is the same thing I'm saying on a national level. One size doesn't fit all.

[Cassiopeia]

17. Just like the party thought we would never elect

Obama.

[jakeXT]

63. Joe Scarborough thought it was 1930s Bolivia

[freedom fighter jh]

11. Yeah, me too.

I only hope Bernstein was overstating, hope the White House is not of one mind not wanting Bernie. After his meeting with Obama, Bernie said he thought Obama didn't favor either one of them.

[tblue37]

70. He could be referring to the sort of apparatchiks that typically populate the WH

during any administration, rather than the president himself, especially since Obama has quite a few long time Clinton loyalists throughout his administration.[font color = "red"]**([font color = "red"]NOTE: Short summary <far> below of my point in the loooong dissertation that follows!)[/font][/font]

No politician gets to the top levels of politics without to some degree playing ball with the powers that are already well established, both within his party and throughout the political establishment on all sides. That is undoubtedly why Obama brought in people like Rahm Emanuel, Larry Summers, Timothy Geithner, etc. I honestly do not think Obama is a willing tool of the oligarchs, but I do think he is clever enough to realize that in order to do any good, he had to get into power, and in order to get into power, he had to play ball--at least to some degree. I also think he figured he would still be able to limit the damage TPTB could do to his efforts to promote a progressive agenda.

But Jimmy Carter once told an interviewer that what surprised him most about being president was how little power the president actually has. I think Carter did underestimate how much power he could exercise by using the bully pulpit, but he also was not as effectively charismatic as Obama is, so he could not as effectively reach the people by going over the heads of the media and the establishment powers--not to mention that Rosalyn Carter, wonderful as she is, is no Michelle Obama, and Michelle is one of Obama's super powers.

I think Obama was probably surprised at how constrained his power was once he got into the WH, and perhaps also surprised at how completely batguano insane the GOP politicians would be—and how willing they would be to actually destroy this country in order to undercut any effort he made to improve conditions, even if he proposed policies the GOP had originally proposed. I mean, think about how weird it was to watch Mitt Romney attack "Obamacare" when its original nickname was "Romneycare," and when it was actually the only thing he did as governor of Massachusetts that was widely admired by people in both parties!

Probably part of Obama's tendency to compromise and reach across the aisle was because he wanted to avoid being seen as an "angry black man" and to make sure no one could blame him for the failure to reach any bipartisan consensus on any policy proposal. But I think that at least part of it really was that he couldn't imagine the Republicans being so bizarrely hostile and intransigent that they would reject even their own policies if he agreed to them.

In the Alan Alda/Meryl Streep/Julie Harris movie The Seduction of Joe Tynan, Alda plays an idealistic politician who has only one goal, to get into a position of power where he can accomplish good things for ordinary people. His ambition is to help people, not to exalt himself. But to climb the ladder, he must compromise and make deals, none of which seems particularly damaging in itself. But by the time he reaches a position where he supposedly can wield enough power to accomplish some of his admirable goals, he is so compromised by all of his little moments of acquiescence along the way that he has painted himself into a corner and can no longer do any of the things he sought power to do. At that point, he has no choice but to dance to the tune of the corrupt establishment.

I think Hillary is almost obsessively ambitious and desperately wants to make history as the first woman president. However, I also believe that she is like Joe Tynan. Her ambition has certainly been a driving force in her political life, but I think that at first her main goal really was to help ordinary people and, especially, the most vulnerable and oppressed people. Unfortunately, though, I think that in trying to protect her future political viability by doing things that were clearly wrong (like voting for the IWR), by sucking up to the most powerful, and by courting the favor (and the money) of deep pocket donors, she has not only tarnished her own reputation, but also painted herself into the same sort of corner that Joe Tynan found himself in. (By the way, I think it was the power establishment that saddled Gore with Lieberman as VP, and that he felt he had no choice but to accede to their demands. I was not surprised when he ditched Liebermen completely after the election, to the point that Lieberman later complained when Gore didn’t have anything more to do with him.)

I think Obama has done better than Joe Tynan—or Hillary—in maintaining some degree of autonomy. He has done things that I seriously disapprove of—especially his rejection of the public option in the ACA, his search for a budgetary “grand bargain” that could have undermined Social Security, his support for fracking and for the TTP, etc.—but on the whole, he has gotten a lot of really good things accomplished, which indicates that at least to a degree he was right to think he could get around some of the limitations that the oligarchic establishment would try to impose. This makes me think that sometimes he really does play multidimensional chess.

But you just don’t get to the top politically by completely refusing to play ball with the establishment. That is the way it has always worked. In fact, that is the only thing about Bernie that gives me pause—not that he has played ball with the entrenched oligarchic establishment, but that since he hasn't, they simply will not permit him to win the nomination or, even if he does manage to get nominated, they will manage to prevent him from becoming president.

As the representative and then the senator for a small demographically homogeneous state, he was not anywhere near the top level of politics, which is why he was so little known when he began his run, and also why they didn't worry enough about him to make sure his campaign was destroyed before it became so popular and well known that they couldn't risk the most obvious and effective ways of destroying it. No doubt they have tried to coopt him, but he is not corruptible, so they are starting to panic because it looks as though he might just block anyone who is willing to play ball from getting the nomination.

_________________________________
[font color = "red"]**Short version: Obama himself might not be the one favoring Hillary's campaign. The people in the WH doing all that panicking might be the apparatchiks of the entrenched establishment that pervade the Obama administration. I don't think Obama necessarily wanted to salt his administration with agents of TPTB, but he probably felt he had no choice.

[Rilgin]

71. Excellent Essay

A few points you mention in here really jump out as truth. I have not seen that movie but the description you give is almost identical to how I see Hillary.

I think that she forgives herself for each cut and compromise she has made over the years without really comprehending the cumulative impact on people who have no direct connection to her or her power.

I agree with you on Carter. He was not the establishment candidate when he ran and I think he came into office not tied up in invisible strings and I do not think he knew how powerful that could make him. However, after getting into office he tried to progress by deal making rather than trying to use political power and the bully pulpit. I compare him to Reagan who people forget was incredibly unpopular the first year of his administration because he did not make deals. Eventually a strong president wins over a reluctant congress because the presidency has a louder public microphone.

Last. I think a lot of this is related to Hillary's ambition and it has put a big blindspot in her analysis of what is best for the party. It was very predictable that Hillary is a divisive democratic candidate and that she energizes the Republican base. 2008 really should have driven the message home that it was time for her to be a party elder and states woman. That as a candidate she poses an incredible risk that her weaknesses will lose the election for the Democratic party.

[tblue37]

72. This is also an excellent analysis. Honestly, though, I am surprised when anyone actually

reads my long comments, because I do tend to go on and on and on. It's just that everything is soooo complex that it takes a lot of words to untangle the knotted strands.

(My assumption that most people won't want to wade through my long posts is why I often add a "tl;dr" summary of the main point.)

[Rilgin]

73. I never know either. I tend to be long winded as well.

However, your essay I thought had new analysis points. I think many people uncomfortable with Hillary are echoing the same points but from different directions. Your essay was extremely well written (even though long) opened new pathways in my thoughts and well deserved a response and acknowledgement.

[Bohunk68]

77. Thank you for sharing this with us.

You echo a lot of my own thoughts and add a couple. It is complex, it always is. In order to look at complex things, it takes more than a word or so to get done. I am with Bernie. It says it like I feel it. He is for real.

[JDPriestly]

86. Thank you. Makes sense.

[Unknown Beatle]

116. I think it's much simpler than that.

Obama took money from the same people that are giving to Hillary, namely big banks and wall st. firms. In doing so, Obama protected those same power brokers from seeing any jail time, as evidenced by his choice of AG, Holder. Holder treated wall st. power brokers with kid gloves instead of prosecuting them for corruption.

Obama is a corporate democrat and that's why he ascended rapidly to become US president. He started out as a corporate democrat and will retire as one. He had us fooled that he was progressive and that he would change things once in the highest office of the US. Obama is a master wordsmith and he convinced a gullible public that he would change Washington, DC.

None of the corrupt Bush administration people ever saw a second inside a court of law for war crimes and crimes against humanity because it's better to look forward than to look back. There was a reason why Obama didn't want anyone in the past administration prosecuted, because he expanded the presidents war powers to include murdering US citizens without due process. If Obama had prosecuted past war crimes, he wouldn't have been able to expand the president's war powers.

Namely, what you're stating, is that Obama is a puppet and his strings are being pulled by TPTB. In that regard, you're correct.

[hopemountain]

128. noteworthy essay, tblue37

it affirms my perceptions of "the white house" establishment. and, i agree, president obama has been very careful about favoring either of the candidates. i think that after his experience and from what he now knows - he wants the american people to have as democratic an election process as possible.

[SammyWinstonJack]

28. Mine also. I am solidly behind that "wacky socialist".

[jwirr]

43. Exactly.

[hobbit709]

3. They didn't LOSE their soul, they SOLD it to the highest bidder.

[onecaliberal]

26. ^^That right there is the entire problem^^

[ViseGrip]

52. Indeed....she sold out after Bill, and Chelsea in training has been hard to watch.

[onecaliberal]

54. I wish them well, and I wish them to just go away.

[SammyWinstonJack]

30. Willing at that.

[Ikonoklast]

88. But the Clintons were dead broke and in debt after leaving the White House.

They *needed* that money.



I wish I was that broke.

A couple of houses the Clintons bought before they left Washington for around $4,500,000.00 total.


Yep.


Dead broke.

[cali]

4. They didn't have one to lose

[in_cog_ni_to]

13. BINGO!

They lost that a long, long time ago.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[Bubzer]

34. Exactly where my mind went. Glad I didn't have to say it.

[Indepatriot]

5. Hillary has all of Bills liabilities, none of his political skills, and the charm of a rattlesnake..

[restorefreedom]

20. i have to disagree....

rattlesnakes have a fire in the belly and are much more interesting to watch.

[hifiguy]

44. 100% accurate.

She is not terribly likable. She has the common touch of Marie Antoinette and the humility of Napoleon, which is no help either.

[farleftlib]

49. That sure sums her up

She rode his coattails as far as they are going to take her. Without him she'd be nothing and with him she's not all that great.

[840high]

85. ..+1

[Carolina]

114. You hit the nail

squarely on the head, Indepatriot!

Best summary of HRC... the charm of a rattlesnake

[hopemountain]

129. more like a scorpion

rattlesnakes are not as harsh - at least they warn you of their presence and will move away from humans.
but, scorpions stand their ground & will attack and sting - every time.

[HelenWheels]

132. Way to help the Republicans

Don't you understand how comments like yours are fuel for Republican politicians. If Hillary wins the nomination will you continue with your hateful comments and vote Republican? Cool it, support your candidate but let the Republicans make the nasty comments.

[Indepatriot]

138. Thanks for your concern. I am a 54 year-old who hasn't missed an election since 1980.

I put in nearly 200 hours of volunteer hours in 08' to help elect President Obama.
Mrs. Clinton is a horrible candidate. Shoots herself in the foot every day. Stands for nothing. Is ON RECORD lying (Bosnia).
She was yesterday's candidate in 08' and is even more out of touch today.
She has earned every bit of distrust and dislike directed at her by voters who are paying attention.
I will not vote for anyone who's core beliefs support the corrupt, immoral political and economic system we have today.
No. More. Clintons.
No. More. Wall Street.
No. More. Lesser Of Two Evils.

[Fumesucker]

6. They revealed their soul

Mirror mirror on the wall...

[demwing]

7. Read between the lines...

Last edited Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:30 AM - Edit history (1)

Sounds to me like the White House isn't afraid she'll lose the Primary, they're afraid she'll win it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

32. Because they're afraid she'll lose the GE. Many of us have the same fear.

[demwing]

48. Yup that's my point exactly nt

[malokvale77]

69. That is what I have always thought.

It would be useless to argue such a thing here on DU though. Isn't this where all the President's besties are?

[backscatter712]

133. Exactly. If she wins, we lose the general.

The entire country can see she's as phony as a three dollar bill.

This is an election where the Democrats should be able to win with one hand tied behind our backs, but Hillary, through her phoniness, will find new ways to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

She is like a cross between Nixon and Dukakis.

[FlatBaroque]

8. They do not do strategy, only tactics /

[malthaussen]

61. It does seem like they're reacting, not acting.

I imagine it is difficult to hold the initiative when your primary concern (pardon the pun) is following the quarter of the wind. Whereas Mr Sanders has been hammering the same message, well, as long as he's been in public life.

-- Mal

[Helen Borg]

10. Panic!

You know, just by seeing Hillary and her hubby scramble in that undignified way, reminds me of how myopic they are. For them, it's a matter of life or death. Exactly, death. When you think about it, they are really fighting against fear of their own mortality. So many people in power have this big problem. Finally realizing that even with all their power, they are just gonna be dust pretty soon. Like all the peons they so despise. All this busyness and whanot mixed in with White House omnipotence fantasies are dangerous. You can also tell that Bernie is not in it for this reason. He is at peace with himself, he is not doing this out of hubris...

[libdem4life]

31. Political mortality they fear the most, IMO. Maybe just short of political irrelevance.

[Nay]

47. You know, I think you have articulated something I've been feeling

for a while -- all these politicians on the national stage are completely out of touch with their inner selves, if they even have inner selves (psychopaths don't seem to). They're out of touch with regular people, too. I have long felt that a large part of Bernie's appeal is that he is completely peaceful within himself and does not depend upon money, power, sex, or any other such outward signs of social climbing to define himself. He has never been interested in that petty shit, and he never will be. The Clintons and others like them are hard to watch after you watch Bernie -- they seem petty and insubstantial, like smoke or ghosts, and powerless to control themselves as mature human beings should.

All it took for them to be unmasked was a guy who just didn't care about power. That's all. Once you remove yourself from the power/money/sex game, you are free. You can invite others to come on your path without regard to what the petty types say. And guess what? If times are bad enough, and there's a mature person to invite you on a different path, many people will take that path.

[cilla4progress]

50. I know, ive been thinking

It's going to be funny to see him with the trappings of power when he wins: Hail to the Chief, State dinners, the White House!

[JDPriestly]

93. I totally agree with you.

[GoneOffShore]

14. Did it actually have one to begin with?

Or was it waiting for the weathervane to point to the 'soul store'?

[MissDeeds]

51. That's what I was wondering n/t

[Myrina]

55. ^ Yup, this ^

n/t

[99Forever]

15. The Coronation Express has no wheels.

Turn out the lights.

[Larkspur]

16. Hillary Clinton has the campaign instincts of Michael Dukakis

If they are going to brand Sanders the new McGovern, I'm going to brand her as Michael Dukakis.

[roguevalley]

36. she's 'nixon' in a dress

[hifiguy]

42. I've been saying that for years

And have proven more correct each day. Nixon in a pantsuit.

[PoliticAverse]

78. Nixon was elected President twice. n/t

[hifiguy]

95. That made him no less of a criminal, sleazy,

murderous piece of dog crap.

[Ligyron]

59. Nailed it! eom

[begin_within]

106. Do you mean a pantsuit?

[roguevalley]

108. :D

[hedda_foil]

121. That's ridiculous. She's Nixon in a pantsuit.

"

[Orsino]

18. Lotta silly hyperbole in that OP...

...but good central point. This behavior is what we expect from an Establishment candidate facing a grass-roots opposition campaign. It's going to be bullying and prevarication for as long as the candidate can pretend not to take her opponent seriously. Only when it becomes apparent that the electorate is turning toward Sanders will we see matters of substance on display.

[Cassiopeia]

84. The campaign can't turn to substance

because the only solid foundation they have is a pro 1% platform. That's exactly what is turning voters away from her.

No, they have only one option, keep throwing shit and hope it sticks.

[Orsino]

137. I dunno. Americans seem to like the idea of modest reform...

...and Clinton is successfully running on this platform.

[KingCharlemagne]

19. She was done after Iowa and nobody told her. Now she's burned to a crisp and

smoke is starting to come from the oven:

The lack of dignity is almost breathtaking as you watch supposedly admirable people lie and deceive without shame. Like the White House, I find it horrifying. Such disingenuousness is unforgivable and undignified. The Clinton era has ended. There’s no coming back from this.

[restorefreedom]

21. ouch. nt

[bigtree]

22. Sanders campaign's revolutionaries are losing their cool

...it's a pattern, perhaps organic, where Bernie scolds, yet his followers just get more rabid.

Harping on surrogates' gaffes is a two-way street.

[KingCharlemagne]

23. Yipes. You really should read the piece in its entiety on Kos. It is a damning

takedown of a campaign that has descended into the muck and mire we associate with Nixon and Joseph McCarthy.

[bigtree]

25. oh, bullhockey

...this is standard campaign rhetoric. Puffed-up nonsense.

Have fun with your campaign.

[dixiegrrrrl]

29. Now there's a rational,logical, well thought reply which adds to the discourse.

[SammyWinstonJack]

37. Wasn't though.

[bigtree]

41. the article lumped in all of the little campaign nonsense together

...and is FREAKING OUT over it, hoping, I guess, to get the type of amens from Bernie supporters it's getting here.

But if you're not already invested in all of the anti-Hillary hype, it comes off a bit hyperbolic.

Have fun with it, though.

[malthaussen]

62. I think "There's a special place in Hell..."

... exceeds normal campaign hyperbole, at least for Democrats. Setting aside the many pearl-clutching moments, there have been some jaw-droppers lately. And isn't it more usual in political campaigns to demonize the candidate, and not his supporters? Although I agree there has been some of that on both sides, IMO the Clinton party has been more vituperative.

-- Mal

[bigtree]

64. Albright said that

...she's not running for president.

Grip - get.

[malthaussen]

65. Oh, now you're just being disengenuous.

You surprise me, Bigtree.

-- Mal

[bigtree]

68. whatever

...

[pinebox]

80. And yet in your previous comments above you said this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1179719

where Bernie scolds, yet his followers just get more rabid.

Are Bernie's supporters running for President?

[Go Vols]

102. Yes she did

Ms. Albright has used a version of the line “special place in hell for women who don’t help other women” in other contexts, and it has been memorialized on Starbucks coffee cups. But in the heat of a presidential campaign, many women found it startling and offensive.

In numerous remarks on social media over the weekend, female supporters of Mr. Sanders accused both women of undermining feminism.

“Shame on Gloria Steinem and Madeleine Albright for implying that we as women should be voting for a candidate based solely on gender,” Zoe Trimboli, a 23-year-old from Vermont who supports Mr. Sanders and describes herself as a feminist, wrote on Facebook. “I can tell you that shaming me and essentially calling me misinformed and stupid is NOT the way to win my vote.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/08/us/politics/gloria-steinem-madeleine-albright-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders.html?_r=0

[Karma13612]

110. Well she showed extremely poor judgement by making such

a horrid statement with the only female Democratic presidential candidate standing on the stage just feet away from her.

She not only embarrassed herself, but with Hillary laughing in response, it was a total failure.

[cui bono]

90. No, Hillary is playing dirty politics just as she did in 2008.

It's despicable and she is alienating half the Democrats, the half that is the base. And if she thinks she can act like that and then get people to not stay home if she's in the general she's not thinking anything through. And her not thinking things through seems to be her biggest problem. She's blowing it and doing it in way that is ruining the party.

Thankfully Bernie is growing the party and giving it something to be enthusiastic about. We better all hope he wins the primary or we'll get a Republican president.

.

[bigtree]

96. remember, Obama chose her for one of his top cabinet positions

...but you still see fit to treat her like a pariah based on 2008?

No mention of the Sanders' surrogate's behavior in this campaign? Forgive me, if I remain unimpressed by the complaints about his rival.

[cui bono]

97. How does that change her current behavior being identical to the 2008 campaign?

She is running the same sort of nasty campaign of lies and smears. We all see it. Do you really deny that?

What Sanders surrogate behavior are you talking about so I can address it?

.

[bigtree]

98. first of all, that's your own narrative to defend

...and the lies and smear complaint is, in and of itself, a petty campaign tactic designed to deflect criticism.

This isn't my first rodeo.

[cui bono]

105. So why did you bring up Obama appointing her?

It's hard to follow you. It seemed to me that you made that statement because you thought that meant that she changed her ways, is that not right? We can all see that she has not changed her ways. So many of the things she is saying are just like what she did against Obama. It's dirty politics whether you expect someone to do it or not. Bernie is not playing dirty politics.

Hillary and Chelsea were documented as having lied about single-payer. Hillary is now lying about Bernie being beholden to big money. She tried calling him a sexist when he isn't. She lied about the 'artful smear'. Bernie is not doing these things.

If you don't want to discuss it then don't. But if you're going to post generalities about Bernie supporters in an attempt to dismiss us then you are going to get challenged.

[ieoeja]

104. After he stripped it of its most important duties.

Special Envoy to the Middle East as well as all diplomats in Iraq, Pakistan and Afghanistan reported directly to White House staff from 2009 through 2012. As soon as Kerry was installed at State in 2013, those positions were returned to State responsibility.

Pretty damning reveal about her real status in the Obama administration and how she must have gotten the job.

Add to that multiple times the White House disavowed itself from remarks she made while Secretary. And Hillary's repeated criticisms of Obama since leaving office.

It certainly seems like Obama has had to grit and bear it where the Clintons are concerned. There appears to be no love lost there.

[hopemountain]

130. as a community organizer from

chicago, president obama was trained in something called "asset based community development" or "abcd". it utilizes a perspective that every one in a community has something to contribute to the community. that "something" is the person's natural "gifts". gifts are very broad in what they can be - whether a gift for teaching, mentoring, leading, speaking, giving, cooking, an art, etc. president obama recognized hillary's gift as a negotiator, her magnetism, focus, and ease with people and leaders from other nations. he was able to put aside her snark toward him and honored her with a title in a capacity to broker diplomacy.

[KittyWampus]

35. Speaking FACTUALLY about Sanders isn't "muck" no matter how Sanders supporters swarm the internet.

[roguevalley]

39. that sword cuts both ways and be and hrc

Are getting slammed for attacking bernie kids. Google it. Stupid tactic hitting and whining about his supporters. Poor queen. The peons don't love her sufficiently.

[hobbit709]

56. But speaking FACTUALLY about Clinton is? Only to be expected from the Clintonistas.

[pinebox]

81. You really want to go down that road because Hillary is a pro mud bogger

[cui bono]

91. When will she start speaking factually about Sanders? Because she's not so far. n/t

[Logical]

136. LOL, getting scared too i see!!!!

[scottie55]

27. As I Have Been Saying All Along

It's really hard to take all that cash from all the "have mores" and convince me you have my family's best interest at heart.

Convince me you will work tirelessly to fix a broken system where a very few get almost all the cookies.

Maybe Hillary can do it.

It doesn't appear so.

[libdem4life]

38. She has been appointed (assumes annointment) for two of her three political positions.

One by marriage...FLOTUS, the Senate terms she won, she was a carpet baqgger, so you know she had monstrous "help" there. She did little or nothing in the Senate, as I hear anyway. And then Obama appointed her for SOS.

There is nothing to indicate she has any inclination to "fix" anything other than to add to her Resume. That's why she comes over so flat. She just wants the job and has been focused on getting it for years.

[LovingA2andMI]

122. This^^^^^Indeed....

The Carpet Bagging Thing in New York -- That's Something Personally I Did Not Like And To His Day - Still Don't And I'm Not A New Yorker.

It Just Reeks Desperate To Take A Seat Anywhere That Would Prop Up Her Rather Thin Political Resume Up To That Point.

Was Not Impressed In 2008, Remains Unimpressed After her SOS Duries and Still Impressed Now.

Voting for Bernie and #GotBerniesBack

[libdem4life]

139. Just felt shady...ditto to 2nd paragraph...and she did not Accomplish Anything, so they say. n/t

[cantbeserious]

46. ^^^ This ^^^

eom

[Kip Humphrey]

33. 2nd time around & she can't manage her campaign successfully again & you want to hand her

the keys to the kingdom?

[MissDeeds]

53. Exactly right

If she can't manage a campaign the second time around, how could she possibly handle the presidency? It's like she learned absolutely nothing from her 2008 campaign, even though she's had eight years to evaluate and correct previous missteps.

[MisterP]

124. the campaign was PERFECT! it's not her fault the voters didn't respond!

that's also the DNC's attitude to 2010-4...

[hifiguy]

40. It's what the Clintons are.

Self-advancement by any means available. Fair or foul doesn't enter onto the equation.

[cantbeserious]

45. The Establishment Is Apoplectic About Bernie - No Tactic Is Too Low Or Malicious

eom

[november3rd]

58. Rocky Balboa

Rocky was never much of a strategy wonk, either.

[NowSam]

60. Bernie's Strategy is speaking truth to power

and when you tell the truth you don't have to worry about political games and strategies. It isn't a game. Too many people are suffering and that is what the Clinton's don't seem to understand - in my opinion.

[raindaddy]

66. They'll end up paying a price...

As long as the Democratic party continues to allow Wall Street and global corporations to fund their elections there's going to be a price to pay..

Wall Street and corporate funding gives them an independence to ignore the will of the public because they no longer depend on us to fund their campaigns...We're certainly experiencing the results. We're working longer hours, for less money, the cost college education has skyrocketed, endless wars nobody wants, a corporate shill news media, etc...

But as long as we maintain an election process and for a number of months candidates have to actually face the public, they're going to experience what is really happening in the world outside of the DC bubble.. And right now a growing number of people are no longer in the mood for our representatives shedding benefactors for the duration of a campaign so they can get down and dirty with the masses only to pick them up again after they're elected...

[Go Vols]

103. agree

Wall Street and corporate funding gives them an independence to ignore the will of the public because they no longer depend on us to fund their campaigns.

[WiffenPoof]

67. I hate to say it...

...but i almost feel sorry for her.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

74. That “artful smear” line was obviously rehearsed as she had no followup....

Classic 20th century thinking that people only remember a single zinger.

Here's a clue to Camp Hillary: We don't even need to set up the VCR anymore.

[zentrum]

75. They kept Big Dog

….mostly out of the picture at first so he wouldn't garner all the attention and eclipse her——or tarnish her feminist narrative by reminding people she got where she is through marriage to a powerful man. She didn't come up on her own—like Elizabeth Warren.

But now they trot him out in the hopes everyone will remember how likable and….warmish and folksy they are.

But he's just being Slick Willy. That other Bill. Can't help himself, apparently.

And where is it written that it's her turn? She was in the WH for 8 years as a powerful first lady. And then there was 08. That was her turn. And she blew it, in large part because of "artful smears" against Obama.

It is no longer her turn. In fact, I was appalled that a Clinton (along with a Bush) were daring to come forward again. They have no idea how absolutely exhausted we are by he same old same old.

[TheFarseer]

76. I remember watching that part of the debate

And I told my wife how he responds to that charge is huge. If he backs down, he's done. But Bernie did not back down nor did he get mean and personal. He responded just perfectly.

[AlbertCat]

79. Now, you’ve got a situation with these transcripts a little like Richard Nixon and his tapes...

... that he stonewalled and didn’t release.”


I'm not a Clinton fan and I love Sanders' message and ideas.... but this comparison is a bit much, doncha think? "A little"..... a very little....

Nixon was president, for Christ sake .... Clinton hasn't even gotten thru the primaries.

[bettyellen]

89. All the Nixon references are hilarious! I get why Bernstein does it, but am astounded

people are gullible enough to parrot him. I feel like a lot of people have no fucking idea of our history. None.

[Rilgin]

118. Perhaps its because Hillary is referencing Kissinger.

Perhaps you forgot that Kissinger was Nixon's Secretary of state.

[bettyellen]

119. OMG- she IS Nixon!! LOL.

[Ivan Kaputski]

82. Can't lose what you don't have. I believe it was sold to the oligarchy so that...

they could win campaigns. Mean while Bernie need not sell his because the common people are supplying his campaign with contributions. Can you believe that? How dare they do that without the oligarchy!

[Cassiopeia]

83. The Clinton's have been doing an excellent job.

I hope they double down and keep up the great work.

This nation desperately needs change and Clinton tanking her own campaign is helping us steer down that path.

[GreatGazoo]

92. I see what you did there.

[Beacool]

94. Reading the DailyKos is to the Left what reading Free Republic is to the Right.

I avoid both like the plague. One caters to the extreme Right, the other one to the extreme Left.

[noiretextatique]

126. Is this a joke?

[white_wolf]

131. Everytime I hear someone refer to Sanders or his campaign as the extreme left...

I have to wonder. Have they never read The Communist Manifesto, Das Kapital, anything by Lenin? Those are works of the extreme left. Sanders would be a fairly average politician in several European countries. America is just so far to the right that anything to the left of Ayn Rand might as well be Marxist-Leninism.

[robbob]

100. What caught my eye was "she could blow the Democrats’ chance for the White House…"

As if Bernie is somehow un-electable. That is the meme of the day (week?). What they really mean is, she is blowing up the DNC's chance to control the candidate for the general election.

[Eleanors38]

101. PheWWW! And I was about to blame it on a Labrador retriever.

Note also that NPR reports Hillary is going to junk her campaign approach after the NH primary.

[SoapBox]

109. OMG...Nixon!

I am not a crook!




http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/watergate/articles/111873-1.htm

Nixon Tells Editors, 'I'm Not a Crook'

By Carroll Kilpatrick
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, November 18, 1973; Page A01

Orlando, Fla, Nov. 17 -- Declaring that "I am not a crook," President Nixon vigorously defended his record in the Watergate case tonight and said he had never profited from his public service.

"I have earned every cent. And in all of my years of public life I have never obstructed justice," Mr. Nixon said.

"People have got to know whether or not their President is a crook. Well, I'm not a crook. I've earned everything I've got."

In an hour-long televised question-and-answer session with 400 Associated Press managing editors, Mr. Nixon was tense and sometimes misspoke. But he maintained his innocence in the Watergate case and promised to supply more details on his personal finances and more evidence from tapes and presidential documents.

...continues at link.

[Ferd Berfel]

115. Expect it to get much worse before it dies off and goes away

[mudstump]

117. Sorry....but, it was an "artful TRUTH".....

[rhett o rick]

120. Their hubris was their downfall. They took the win for granted for too long.

Now they see it will be a race they are desperate.

[nikto]

123. I'm sure, when the speeches are released ...

We will see that she used the speeches to warn Wall St about its excesses, and
level with them that more regulation and taxation of Wall St was inevitable, and that campaign conbtributions
from lobbyists would have no influence on her personal Progressivism.
Because, Dammit, she's a Progressive.





Also, I have a great deal on the Brooklyn Bridge today----$473.99, and if you buy now,
you get a free copy of Hillary Clinton's book, Favorite Cookie Recipes of Investors and Fund Managers.
(Generally, Bankers and Investor-types prefer S'Mores ).

[azurnoir]

135. would that the S'mores recipe that uses burnt peeps?