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WiffenPoof

(2,404 posts)
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 03:42 AM Feb 2016

Sanders v. Clinton and Their Supporters

I'm a political junkie and have been for most of my 63 years. I have been observing and occasionally posting here on DU. Like many here I am appalled at the vitriol exchanged by both Sanders and Clinton supporters. Sometimes I wish we would have adopted Reagan's 11 Commandment that "No Democrat will speak ill of another Democrat."

But there are reasons why we arrived at this unfortunate crossroads. But more on that later.

Let me first say that I am a Bernie Sanders supporter. I honestly believe that he may be the last best hope that we have as a country. Having said that, if Bernie does not get the nomination, I would be proud to cast my vote for Hillary Clinton. In many ways, most would have to agree (at least on paper) she is the most qualified candidate we have seen in decades. Other than our President, Hillary has had to weather some of the most vicious attacks from the Right that few others have had to deal with. All the time, she has carried the Democratic banner high, never bowing her head. There is very little (at least to me) to be ashamed of when comes to Hillary. She has fought the good fight and ALL Democrats should be proud of her.

There would be only one scenario that could threaten her rise to the highest office...and wouldn't you know it, it happened to her twice.

That threat is "Progressivism."

Notice that in my praise of Clinton, I did not mention that she carried the "progressive" banner high. There are some that will disagree with me. However, I do not, nor did I ever consider Hillary to be a progressive. I've always considered her to be a solid Democrat that would move our collective agenda forward. But never did ever consider her political philosophy to be Progressive.

As I stated, I believe that it is progressivism that derailed her first Presidential run and I believe that it is progressivism that is threatening her second run. Her own self-destructive and sometimes baffling campaign moves have certainly not helped. I have a feeling that Hillary Clinton is a far better politician than she is a campaigner. There have been too many missteps in both of her presidential runs that makes one wonder if she is not her own worst enemy. But I digress...

There are some here that will deny the fact that Barrack Obama ran as a progressive. They claim that they could see right through him...that he was never a progressive. I disagree. I don't disagree that he is not a progressive. I merely believe that he ran as a progressive. What happened to him after getting into office is anyone's guess. Maybe he was naive or was simply never a progressive...there is evidence of both. Of course now, it really doesn't matter. What does matter and is an important part of my position is that Barrack Obama ran as a Progressive. Why else would you promise to reign in Wall Street (the hub of the Progressive agenda)? Of course, he didn't reign in Wall Street but instead appointed Wall Street kingpins to run the economy. Not Progressive. There are a variety of other progressive promises that were broken. But we will leave that to history.

The point here is that running as a Progressive, President Obama was able to amass a huge following and eventually got the keys to the White House.

In the meantime, Occupy Wall Street happened as well as the Tea Party.

In 2015 and now in 2016, we see the rise of another Progressive, Bernie Sanders. One could say that Bernie learned a lot from watching Barrack Obama. However, the fact that he has always been a Progressive is closer to the truth. I could go over all of the Progressive bullet points of a Bernie Sanders campaign, but you already know them.

The point here is that, as far as I'm concerned Progressivism has been just under the surface of the American electorate for years...just waiting for the right messenger. Barrack Obama got close, the Occupy Movement was another sign and finally there is Bernie.

Bernie Sanders supporters can be rabid and cruel. I have read things from some of my fellow Bernie supporters that I've never heard a Right Wing Hillary haters state. This is more than unfortunate, it is wrong.

But let me explain (at least in part) why I think some Bernie supporters can take the low road when it comes to attacking Hillary Clinton.

I am 63 years old. Over the past few decades I have gone from being a Democrat to a Liberal and now I'm considered Progressive. All I knew over the years was that I considered myself to be an FDR Democrat. Some would say that I was more like a Liberal. Okay, so I became a Liberal. But then people like Rush Limbaugh (and others) convinced the public that Liberal was a BAD thing. It's only been in the past year that I've learned that no....I'm not a Democrat...nor am I a Liberal...but that in fact I am a Progressive. It seems to me that this linguistic evolution means nothing. The truth is that the one thing in common among Democrats and Liberals is Progressive. It was only the shift to the Right over the past thirty years that made any real difference in the terminology.

I have been waiting a very, very long time for an FDR Democrat to come along (exchange FDR Democrat with Progressive) and I see this person in Bernie Sanders. Over the years as the Democratic Party turned Right many of us remained on the "original path" or even turned Left. I wasn't the one who left the Democratic Party...the Democratic Party left me. And I never dreamed in my wildest dreams that I would see the likes of MY kind of Democrat in my lifetime. Apparently I wasn't alone in my joy and amazement as 3.5 million donors have given an average of $27 to the Bernie campaign. Not only did the Democratic Party come full circle, but I wasn't alone...not by a long-shot.

So, what are we to do in light of this miracle represented by Bernie Sanders. We can only do one thing...we hang on with everything we have. After so many years of waiting, nearly convinced that my political philosophy had long passed, I have a chance...this country has a chance. The long wait can make our passion over-ride our reason...we cannot back down or give one inch, not now when this opportunity has presented itself.

We have a choice. Hillary is a fine Democrat that will move the ball forward for the next Democrat. We may take three steps forward and two steps back...but we WILL move forward. She wants to achieve parts of the Progressive agenda in increments. A Progressive agenda I might add that she has only recently embraced. Then we have Bernie Sanders who wants to fire all of his guns at once...accomplish the Progressive agenda in one fell swoop.

There are those that would argue that trying to pull off everything that Bernie wants to pull off is a recipe for failure. They may actually have a good argument. It is a risk. But America has never been afraid of risk. We have never been afraid to move all of our chips to the middle of the table. That is who we are. I would rather see Bernie try and fail then never try at all.

I will fight for Bernie Sanders with everything I have because he represents what this country might have become had Bobby Kennedy not been assassinated. He represents a risk...a gamble. And even upon failure, the genie will never be put back into the bottle. It's too late. At some point in the future, we will realize the dreams of a Bernie Sanders and millions of others who envision a country of compassion and reason. Don't ask me to let go of it...not now. Not now that it has come home to me.

As Robert Kennedy once said:
"Some see things as they are and ask why?" I dream things that never were and ask why not?"

-Paige




16 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Sanders v. Clinton and Their Supporters (Original Post) WiffenPoof Feb 2016 OP
Allow me to be the first to kick and recommend. PatrickforO Feb 2016 #1
Like FDR before him, Bernie is ironically John Poet Feb 2016 #2
Somehow thinking about Bernie leads me to an illustration mikehiggins Feb 2016 #3
you have written, so much more eloquently than I ever could, what I've been thinking renate Feb 2016 #4
Obama... TTUBatfan2008 Feb 2016 #5
"I wasn't the one who left the Democratic Party...the Democratic Party left me." tecelote Feb 2016 #6
Thank you. fun n serious Feb 2016 #7
This is the part that stands out the most for me Kentonio Feb 2016 #8
It seems like Hillary's campaign and her surrogates are really missing the point loyalsister Feb 2016 #9
Agreed, and the way she claimed victory in Iowa mdbl Feb 2016 #11
Absolutely! loyalsister Feb 2016 #15
Very well put davidpdx Feb 2016 #12
Agree with everthing except. mdbl Feb 2016 #10
Thank you Paige for writing this davidpdx Feb 2016 #13
Replies Cosmocat Feb 2016 #14
Great post Dems to Win Feb 2016 #16

PatrickforO

(14,586 posts)
1. Allow me to be the first to kick and recommend.
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 03:50 AM
Feb 2016

I think it's high time here in America for a nice big dose of old fashioned New Deal social democracy. And I think you're right - Bernie is our last best hope to get this nation back on track. Miss him and it's likely to be pitchforks within twenty years. Or sooner.

 

John Poet

(2,510 posts)
2. Like FDR before him, Bernie is ironically
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 03:54 AM
Feb 2016

the last best hope of capitalism in this country.

Next stop is torches and pitchforks time.

mikehiggins

(5,614 posts)
3. Somehow thinking about Bernie leads me to an illustration
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 04:09 AM
Feb 2016

I wish I had the talent to put it into form but I literally have trouble drawing a straight line. You know all this is as much a surprise to Sanders as it is to the rest of us.

Anyway, the image is of Bernie standing in a field and all around him the water is coming up. He's looking at the flood, labeled "voters", with a puzzled look on his face and the caption is

"What the fuck? Forty years I've been saying this and NOW I'm a leader?"

Wish I could draw it.

renate

(13,776 posts)
4. you have written, so much more eloquently than I ever could, what I've been thinking
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 04:10 AM
Feb 2016

I'd be happy to vote for Hillary Clinton. Proud, even, because she has been through the wringer. Her Republican opponents have been punching her for no reason other than that she's a Democrat and a Clinton, and she keeps getting the hell up. She is pretty damn impressive. She is smart and tough and I really believe that if anyone should be president because they've earned it, it's Hillary.

But the people of this country--90% of them, anyway--not just deserve but NEED someone like Bernie, who is in this not one whit for personal gain or achievement or anything like that, but for justice. Simple justice. It's what he's worked for and who he's been for his entire life.

So anyway, YES, I love what you wrote. Thank you!

TTUBatfan2008

(3,623 posts)
5. Obama...
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 04:22 AM
Feb 2016

...was taking in massive donations from Wall Street as he spoke out against them in the campaign. He had a short track record before the campaign, so I don't believe anyone realized what was really going on behind the scenes.

Sanders has a 50 year track record of screaming about big money corruption in our political process and he has a donation record that pretty much backs that up regardless of any strawman comparisons the Clinton campaign wants to bring up ($200,000 for him vs. $200 MILLION for her...but they are just the same!!!!!). He's not perfect but he is a hell of a lot cleaner than the Clintons or any other corporate candidate from either party including Obama.

I agree 100% with you that Obama ran as a progressive. It was a huge bait and switch on the public. As soon as he got into office and started hiring people like Larry Summers/Tim Geithner, that was when a lot of people realized the Goldman Sachs money DID have an impact on him. Who knows, maybe Sanders' campaign will be hijacked by corporations and Bernie will sell us out like Obama did. That outcome is possible, but it's also very possible he is the real deal. He has a 50 year track record that is extremely clean compared to so many others in our political system.

tecelote

(5,122 posts)
6. "I wasn't the one who left the Democratic Party...the Democratic Party left me."
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 05:16 AM
Feb 2016

Exactly.

People are saying Bernie is not a Democrat but I see him as the first true example in my lifetime. Very similar to what you said so well.

Thanks!

 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
8. This is the part that stands out the most for me
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 05:31 AM
Feb 2016
So, what are we to do in light of this miracle represented by Bernie Sanders. We can only do one thing...we hang on with everything we have. After so many years of waiting, nearly convinced that my political philosophy had long passed, I have a chance...this country has a chance. The long wait can make our passion over-ride our reason...we cannot back down or give one inch, not now when this opportunity has presented itself.


I think its at the heart of the breakdown of communication between the two sets of supporters. Hillary's group think we on the Sanders side are hero worshiping Bernie and seemingly can't understand why we're unwilling to wait for another candidate. The thing is I don't think there will be another candidate running on this kind of platform with this much potential for success for a very, very long time.

Bernie isn't the first populist to run. He's not the first to run against big money or undue political influence. He's not the first decent person to run, and he's certainly not the most eloquent or charismatic. The thing that gives him a chance (however slim) of winning though is that he is someone who has been in the game for over 40 years but who was just far enough outside the party structures to not have to make the kinds of compromises party members are forced to. That doesn't mean he's any better a person than some of the others, but it means he can't be taken down easily by on his record.

To stop Sanders his opponents have to attack his policy positions. That's a fight that some of us have been waiting for for a very long time. If he loses then fair enough, America wasn't ready, but if he loses then this opportunity isn't going to come again any time soon. The next truly progressive candidate will have insider party baggage and when you have the entire corporate and political structures standing against you, baggage is something you can't afford.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
9. It seems like Hillary's campaign and her surrogates are really missing the point
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 05:42 AM
Feb 2016

She doesn't seem to listen to or validate the anger some people are feeling.
I don't understand why she keeps doing things that contribute to her being a personfication of everything that Sanders supporters think is wrong with this culturecountry. She should be trying to earn those votes, but she just completely dismisses a large group of highly motivated voters.

mdbl

(4,973 posts)
11. Agreed, and the way she claimed victory in Iowa
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 06:47 AM
Feb 2016

as if it was some big mandate. She could have handled that situation much more to her favor.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
15. Absolutely!
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 07:21 AM
Feb 2016

I remember during the first debate when Martin O'Malley paid compliments to Clinton and Sanders by talking about everyone being civil and all having some good ideas.
Hillary could have said that the closeness of the race meant that we have two very strong candidates and a lot of good ideas coming from both because "we are Democrats!"

She could have acknowledged Bernie's coalition who want to see a better future for themselves by saying that while pragmatism is important we also have to hang on to our idealism.

Bruce Springsteen captured what is happening between Bernie and Hillary right now almost 40 yrs ago.....

"Well the dogs on Main (Wall) street howl cuz they understand if we could take one moment into our hands. Mister I ain't a boy, no I'm a man and I believe in the promised land."





mdbl

(4,973 posts)
10. Agree with everthing except.
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 06:46 AM
Feb 2016

you use the term "solid Democrat". I would replace that with moderate centrist. In your 63 years, you should have noticed the change in the term Democrat went from Progressive/Liberal to a moderate centrist. So when you talk about Democrats in the party today, the DLC and DCCC types, the term solid "Democrat" is more a perversion of the right wing talking heads. Oh and Reagan's 11 Commandment? I think we can see that went out the window.

davidpdx

(22,000 posts)
13. Thank you Paige for writing this
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 07:08 AM
Feb 2016

Feelings are harder for some people communicate than others. You have done a great job laying out how you feel about the campaign. I think Sander's supporters have for the most part been dismissed as stupid and foolish for supporting him. We do need massive changes in the US.

Having lived in South Korea for over 12 years now, I can see several things that they do here in Korea that should be done in the US.

-Universal health care
-Postal banking
-Making election day a holiday


I am hoping no matter who wins is that they will nominate Obama for the next Supreme Court justice.

Cosmocat

(14,568 posts)
14. Replies
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 07:11 AM
Feb 2016

I like BHO a LOT and stick up for him wo equivication, to anyone, including hard like republicans to this day.

He did not run as a fire breathing progressive. He did speak to progressive positions at democratic venues at times, but his gift as a politician was bis inspirational presentations that left people to THINK what they wanted to think, so progressives wanted him to be a progressive warrior and that is what they saw. On average, he rarely boxed himself in policy wise, he spoke mostly in generalities.

As someone else noted, I saw that he took a LOT of wall street money, and just had the sense he would be as comfy w big money as he has been.

HE is fine, his problem has been that for the two years he had a majority in the house and senate he had 100 percent republican opposition and his party was fractured into elements that included a good sized portion of "conservative" democrats.

Even here, people are simple minded, thinking potus is a dictator in chief, completely disregarding the 535 congressman and senators who have a say in passing legislation. The progressive limitations the 8 years have not been bho, it has been congress. Pretty simple, but again people in this country are stone cold stupid.

The same basic situation exists w bernie, HES OUR LAST HOPE!

Bernie is great, but if he becomes potus no much is going to change, because AT BEST hes going to have a republican majority house.

So, all the histrionics are pretty childish.

I am voting bernie because he 1) is by far the most right on the issues 2) he is unlike 95 percent of other democrats in that he speaks to'progressive positions unabashedly.

Hillary is ok, warmed over, centrist and all, but its politics and as far as politicians go she is ok.

For the most part, her supporters tone this primary has been no worse than any other primary.

I am revulsed at most of the bernie supporters here.

They are like republicans, so inebriated in the righteousness of the cause they spew vitriol while forever playing the victim.

 

Dems to Win

(2,161 posts)
16. Great post
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 07:37 AM
Feb 2016

I do have one area of disagreement:

In many ways, most would have to agree (at least on paper) she is the most qualified candidate we have seen in decades.


No, I don't agree. She had a trial run as President, when Bill put her in charge of Health Care Reform, and she failed to achieve reform.

Hillary served as a US Senator and got it wrong when THEE most important vote of her career came along, the Iraq War vote.

Hillary's only executive experience is running the State Department. She failed to respond to FOIA requests which led to lawsuits which led to the ongoing email investigations which threaten to take down her presidential campaign, and the entire Democratic Party's hopes for 2016 if it happens after she's the nominee.

Al Gore was as qualified as Hillary when he ran. And, I'd say Bernie is just as qualified as Hillary today. He has executive experience as Mayor, plus 25 years in the House and Senate, and he has a record of making decisions that prove correct in the long term.

I just can't go along with the 'most qualified ever' description of Hillary.
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