Bernie Sander's problem with Democrats

[bravenak]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/02/sanderss-party-problem/460293/

[leftofcool]

1. Democrats just don't like him. His colleagues in Congress don't like him.

They don't want to work with him and he can't pull out enough established Dems to win a GE if he is nominated. Young people can not overcome the rest of the Party.

[Fawke Em]

2. I'm a Democrat and I like him.

Do I like the rest of those establishment hacks? Meh... not so much.

[DesertFlower]

3. that worries me if he's the nominee.

how will members of congress work with him when he says there all "bought" which is true.

that's if he can win the GE. the repubs will go after him with the "socialist" thing. they'll scare people and we might get trump.

[TTUBatfan2008]

51. At worst...

You end up with gridlock. I would say it's gonna be gridlock regardless. Look at Obama, a moderate guy with a lot of Republican-esque policies and it has been gridlock ever since the Republicans took over the House of Reps. At least we would not have to worry about Sanders conspiring with the GOP to shove something like TPP or NAFTA down our throats.

[bravenak]

18. Very true.

Gotta make friends. Calling everybody corrupt or bought and sold does not make them want to help in any way. I'll call my rep and stupid senators myself if I don't like what he tries. Politics is a TEAM sport.

[Voice for Peace]

75. First of all, he's one of the best liked members of Congress.

On an interpersonal level and a teamwork level. People actually trust him. Known for being reasonable and consistent, if a bit eccentric.

But most there disagree with his politics.
And it scares many of them, for many reasons.

Do you believe that those who ARE corrupt need to go?
(To jail)
Bernie isn't trying to make friends.
How about the jolly.neocons and their gleeful torture fetish?

They all know he's an honest man. The rich & corrupt are the ones fighting him hardest, trying to brainwash and scare people.

You don't see this? It appears as an enormous elephant in the room. Even dressed in a donkey costume, it's hard to miss.

[bravenak]

77. If he is well liked the endorsements would bear this out.

Many disagree with his rhetoric and single minded view. Too black and white. Lack of nuance. Sure of his rightness and insulting at times. Refusal to compromise. Bashing the democratic party.
Do the corrupt need jail? Sure, but we would damn near all be there. Crimes need to be prisecuted and if no crimes are in evidence I ignore most charges of corruption. People love to yell corruption.

Bernie needs friends to get one damn iota of his agenda passed. He needs to learn to make friends to get the minority vote. We will not come to him as you can see. At this rate he'll reach her in minority voters by 2018. If candidates do not try to make friends with us they seem to lose elections. We come hard for our friends.

Neocons. Yeah. They are who they are. We have torture in our prisons. Called solitary. SHU.

The rich and corrupt are not stunting Bernie. They are rich. And corrupt. And he had no FRIENDS to help him rein anybody in.

I see. I see a side trying to call everybody corrupt and diss the party and dissing anybody who don't want bernie. They have issues with whole segments of the base, they really seem to hate Obama.

The man in the donkey suit? Hmm? Cause he just started being a dem or what? Funny. Yes. Just because one dresses up in a donkey suit dont make them a democrat.

[Voice for Peace]

85. No idea what your source is

But it's 180° from all I've read, and not believable as written. You are describing a figment of your imagination.
Unless you want to provide an authoritative source for your claims?

You and I also have opposite views, i think, on the meaning of Democrat. And democracy, what that means. The vision and hope for America -- what that was all about.

[bravenak]

89. The internet, my eyes, his superdelegate totals...

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/244696-house-dem-im-not-sure-bernie-sanders-likes-immigrants
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/07/16/bernie-sanderss-limited-appeal-even-to-democrats/
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/10/30/bernie-sanders-lacking-congressional-endorsements/74883526/
http://msmagazine.com/blog/2016/01/19/why-is-bernie-yelling-at-me/
http://lansingcitypulse.com/article-12189-the-trouble-with-bernie.html

[Voice for Peace]

90. Don't have any way to visit links at present

[bravenak]

92. Ok

[Kentonio]

95. Yeah cause you gotta have friends

Sure the system is corrupt and broken, but you've got to keep everyone happy. Want to fix campaign reform? Sure we all want that, but hey we can't change it too much, because it might cost senator x support from his major donors and we need his vote. And congresswoman x relies on support from that corporation for her reelection, got to make sure we don't shake the boat. Cause hell, we all want change, but you gotta have friends you see....

[bravenak]

96. Ohhhh. Go on!

I find this fascinating.

[Voice for Peace]

64. Those are mightily misinformed claims

✨Shame, shame on the abandonment of honesty.

It's highly creepy to me that Hilary affects people this way, as I perceive.

Do you not see the dishonesty drip-drip dripping out of her campaign, from all directions?

Or you don't mind it, bc everybody lies in politics?

I don't see her moral compass, nor a woman who knows what she believes. Too many disconnects.

The creative distortion of truth has been a longtime practice for both Clintons. They're good at it.

[Rocky the Leprechaun]

79. Really?

There is 85 million of us.

[sadoldgirl]

4. Of course, nobody likes him!

That is the reason for the virtual tie in IA.

[boomer55]

5. and nobody is going to like him alot more in NH. :)

[LWolf]

10. The massive crowds gathering across the nation

to not like him are great indications of how much he is disliked.

[wildeyed]

6. And mostly they won't like him

in SC and NC too!

[QC]

7. Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded. -- Yogi Berra n/t

[frylock]

12. And he gets all those amendments through because nobody likes him!

The guy can't work with anyone. Sheez!

[NWProf]

8. Big time hit piece on Bernie

Basically this article was a compilation of every Hillary talking point that has appeared on DU against Bernie. If you read below the article, you will find that most of the comment writers were solidly against the author's hit piece. They point out that the author really doesn't know Bernie because there are so many falsehoods in the article.

This time there really are no 'Droids in the car.

[bravenak]

15. Glad you loved it.

[TheBlackAdder]

94. Perhaps it's those Democrats with cosy inbred oil (Koch/BP) relationships, like Hillary's Podesta.

.


Check out the link...



Hillary Clinton rakes in money from fossil fuel interests

Here’s just a partial list of the fossil fuel–friendly bundlers who raised money for Clinton from April through June:

http://grist.org/climate-energy/hillary-clinton-rakes-in-money-from-fossil-fuel-interests/

Heather Podesta and Tony Podesta have raised $31,150 and $74,575, respectively. The power ex-couple are big-shot Democratic lobbyists. Tony’s brother John is Clinton’s campaign chair and former White House chief of staff to Bill Clinton. Even though John Podesta is considered a climate hawk, Tony and his ex-wife Heather represent fossil fuel companies. Heather’s recent past clients include Marathon Oil and Bill Koch’s Oxbow Carbon, a coal giant, and from 2004 to 2006 she lobbied for Koch Industries. Tony lobbied for BP in the wake of its disastrous Deepwater Horizon oil rig explosion, and through last year he represented Golden Pass, a company co-owned by ExxonMobil and Qatar Petroleum that wants to export liquefied natural gas. To be fair, they also work on behalf of renewable fuel companies — Tony represents SolarReserve, a solar power company, and Heather lobbies for the ethanol industry. You might call the Podestas the very embodiment of the Obama/Clinton “all of the above” energy policy.

But the contrast between her and her opponents is clear, and it’s indicative of real policy differences. O’Malley has laid out a set of strong, detailed proposals to combat climate change. These include not just measures Obama has begun taking, like regulating carbon emissions under the Clean Air Act, but ones he hasn’t, like adopting zero-tolerance regulation for methane leaks from oil and gas wells and denying new offshore oil leasing permits. Clinton has not endorsed any stances beyond Obama’s except for charging more for coal leases.

“Hillary Clinton’s position is stuck in the past,” says Jamie Henn, a spokesperson for 350 Action. “We have the tools to transition away from fossil fuels. What about all the jobs lost because of climate impacts? We need a president who is willing to make tough decisions about how to transition our economy in the face of climate risk.”

.

[wildeyed]

9. It's probably deeper than just the party.

I know actual socialists, who have been socialist since before this 2015, who don't support him. The consensus is that if he did manage to win the GE, he will walk straight into the buzzsaw of a GOP congress. And that he is too focused on his own ideology and agenda to be a good partner on much of anything else.

[bravenak]

14. Yep.

I know some who see him as way too far right for them. Non starter. And his personality.

[Fawke Em]

23. If he's too far right, Hillary must be Stalin to them!

And, his personality if fine. He's dogged but he does care a lot about the people he serves.

[bravenak]

24. Honestly?

They're all Stalin to me. Politicians are not our buddies. I do not love them (except Obama). I do not trust ANY OF THEM. They pander. They use. They lie! They are politicians. Is one better than the other? Meh.
But who would hire me? She would. Boom. C. Final answer. Givememymoneyz.

[JonLeibowitz]

101. Are you serious? n/t

[NurseJackie]

97. "And his personality."

Exactly! Thank you.

[jeff47]

76. You should probably ask your actual socialist friends to explain

the difference between socialist and democratic socialist to you.

[wildeyed]

78. You should probably

ask someone to explain the difference between a bandwagon and actual political commitment to you. Or the difference between good political debate and... whatever it is you just did.

[jeff47]

98. Well, you just lumped together two different political philosophies

And then complained that one of them shows insufficient commitment to accomplishing the other's goal. They have different goals. That's why they are different political philosophies.

"Randianism does not have enough commitment to Marxist goals!!!"

[wildeyed]

100. No.

I pointed out that Sanders has issues on the left as well as with the regular party Dems. He does not play well with others, so many activists on the left prefer Clinton. She might be more conservative, but she knows how to listen. The end result for most issue activists (unless your issues align exactly with the candidate's) is better with politicians like that than it is with ideologues who are overly committed to their personal vision.

[jeff47]

102. So...incrementalism is now a terrible idea?

Your claim is that socialists are unhappy that a democratic socialist is not sufficiently socialist....so they're going to vote for the unabashed capitalist.

Yeah....that makes plenty of sense.

[wildeyed]

106. No.

Activists are unhappy with ideologue politicians who do not support or even acknowledge the validity of their issues and experience. And in some cases actively attack their people for any perceived slight.

Holy moly the immigration activists I know are PO'ed after that accusation of "press hit" against a DREAMer activist.

And trust me, activist know all about incrementalism and compromise. You gotta see the big picture and trust that the arc of history is bending toward justice, otherwise is gets too depressing for words.

On the ground, no one really cares what you ideology is anyway, if you are a good ally and fighter. Sanders is perceived as neither.

[redstateblues]

103. Bernie called himself a Socialist

Before he started running for POTUS

[jeff47]

105. And I guess you'll just have to google the difference between

democratic socialist and socialist.

[EdwardBernays]

11. He denounced them

By voting with them hundreds of times and raising money for them.

And guess what MANY THOUSANDS of Democrats LOVE him.

[bravenak]

13. The ones who he needs to push his agenda don't seem to love him

[EdwardBernays]

17. It doesn't matter anyway

because he doesn't have enough black staff for you to vote for him.. lol..

I'm not surprised that a lot of people want to keep the corrupt machine greased... I am surprised that people like yourself that think all politicians are crooks ALSO think a candidate is better if a bunch of crooks want to help him get elected...

[bravenak]

19. He really doesn't

I like to see diversity not just hear woofing.

[EdwardBernays]

21. lol

you're the easiest target anyone ever had... which isn't great for America, but it helps someone like Hillary...

[bravenak]

22. And other are even easier.

For me, anyway. If I want to turn a black voter to Hillary? It really should NOT BE SO EASY. But it is. Show a few things, say a few things, ask a few questions, hint here hint there, abracadabra! Shoulda kept me on team Bernie. Glad it didn't work out between me and tha bern. I like this side better.

[Arazi]

36. How funny! For me it's the same but in Bernie's favor

#anecdote

#lol

#whoyagunnabelieve

[bravenak]

37. LOL!

Guess what? I actually believe you!

[Arazi]

40. Ha, you know it

#cometojesus

#democraticsocialismisgood

#feelthebern

[bravenak]

42. Ahh!

I remember my Bernie days. Seems like only yesteryear that I was full bernin.

[Arazi]

48. #we'remorefun

plus, yeah we're better on the issues

[bravenak]

49. No. They cook better.

All kinds of snacks and they're nice to me and give me extra to take home. Even special secret brownies that make you extra happy. And they have bank accounts so they give them out FREE. Like Bernie. All they want is for me to say, I'm with her, and BOOM! Friendly convo and delicious snacks. They love me! I have been promised that theres more where that came from. One says she will make prime rib and call me to come get a share, socialism, ummm. Delicious! Hillarypeeps know how to feed ya!

[Arazi]

52. Revealed as never having been to a Sanders meet up ever

#sucksforyoubsmeetups

#bspotbrownierecipe (2016 recs on allrecipes.com!)

#bestchiliever

[bravenak]

54. Really?

They don't invite me. Hillpeeps took pity on my lonely self.
I'd get kicked out for being too 'unruly'. Like poor marissa jenae. I snatch mics and shit.

[Arazi]

60. Sad. BS parties are happening all the time and LOVE unruly

We're at the local stuff. Barbershops, churches, NAACP, etc

Wish you were here

[bravenak]

67. I'll come to the next Revolution!!

[BooScout]

16. K&R

[img][/img]

[bravenak]

20. Hillyes!

[Fawke Em]

27. #HillNo

[BooScout]

30. ...

[img][/img]

[bravenak]

31. You crack me up sometimes

I think I woulda been just like you if I stayed with tha bern.

[Rocky the Leprechaun]

80. #TooEarlyForHillPatrickDay....

[BooScout]

82. It's never to early to wear the green!

[Rocky the Leprechaun]

84. It doesn't match her tone..

Makes her look horrible, TBH.

[Ferd Berfel]

25. The only problem is with the Coporatists

They don't like getting reamed for taking the bribes

[bravenak]

32. Of course not.

We shall reward them as always. And it was ever thus.

[politicaljunkie41910]

26. I don't understand how the Dems allowed this problem to get this far.

It's not like Bernie would have had a choice had they laid down the gaunlet long before now. Where was Bernie going to go? The GOP. As one man, one vote, he wouldn't have had any power over anyone to force himself on either party. Now it seems there is a major problem to include, the issues of the open and closed caucuses. I know here is California, you have to vote your Party in the primary. This was designed to prevent outsiders from crossing over to manipulate the vote in the Primary. You can vote for anyone in the General.

The fact that Bernie doesn't like the Dems and the Dems don't like Bernie should have forced a settlement of this issue before now. Never before, has a situation given such credence to the statement, "I don't belong to any organized political party. I am a Democrat."

[Fawke Em]

28. He didn't want to be a spoiler, which is more than I can say for some other politicians.

Leiberman comes to mind.

[bravenak]

29. Ha!

They knew he'd fizzle out after NH. Damn near a prophecy.
I think they did it to say 'see lefties! We gave you a shot!' And they did.
Now they can't say the party won't let them run candidates.
Beating him is the only fair thing to do. Beating him badly is better.

[Fawke Em]

33. And losing the General.

Yeah... that's smart.

She'll lose for a variety of reasons, but one of them will be because many Bernie supporters, namely independents, fed-up Democrats and moderate Republicans, won't be so motivated to come out for Hillary.

[bravenak]

35. Prolly won't lose the GE

Won't win big but will win.
Would I get out of my wonderful memory foam bed to go to the polls for Bernie? I hope so. If he wins you better contact me on the day of to remind me, yo. I be bullshitting if I don't feel it.

[politicaljunkie41910]

39. It will be damn near impossible to find any moderate Republicans.

As for independents, many whom are former members of the GOP, I could see them crossing over and voting for Hillary, particularly if the nominee is Trump, who would be viewed as a loose cannon.

[Beartracks]

62. But you know who WILL come to the polls because of Hillary?

EVERY REPUBLICAN. She's practically their anti-Christ.

My fear is that, if she is our nominee, we'll get a lot of "meh" on our side, while the opposition will be completely galvanized to come out en masse, foaming at the mouth, to vote for WHOEVER is their nominee, even if they have to hold their noses (which many will need to do) and vote for Trump or Cruz -- because to a Republican, ANY Republican is better than ANY Democrat, and ESPECIALLY Hillary.

But that's just the feeling I get from the people around me in my red state.

===================

[Rocky the Leprechaun]

81. I'm a Berniecrat.

I'm convinced that Clinton cannot handle the duties of the President of the United States, because she is a follower, not a leader.

[HooptieWagon]

34. Problem, huh? Some of us view it as a rescue operation.

We're taking our party back from the corporatists whole stole it. Preferably by ballot, but pitchforks and torches if necessary.

[kstewart33]

38. Pitchforks and Torches?

I'm wondering just how large the pitchfork mob that couldn't win an election, would be.

[bravenak]

43. Me too.

Almost sad we won't get to see it. Sure it would be a spectacular ten minute show.

[HooptieWagon]

50. .

http://www.history.com/topics/1960s/videos/violence-batters-1968-democratic-convention

[mcar]

41. Really good points!

[bravenak]

45. I wonder what he would say.

[Thinkingabout]

44. If my tax rates are raised to 77% it would be much cheaper to pay

Health insurance premiums with out the assistances of Obamacare. Thirty three cents would be left for me to provide housing, food and utilities. It is tax I can not afford. Talk about cutting our wages. Even if minimum wages was increased one would have a salary of $600 weekly, pay $462 in taxes and be left with $138 to provide for myself. Now this does not add up for me.

[bravenak]

46. None of it adds up.

That's why his message is convoluted.

[TCJ70]

59. Bravenak, you could at least clear this person up...

...on how tax brackets work. Bernie's tax plan is the same progressive system we have now just with more brackets, ending at higher rates, but no one would pay 77% of their income total. That's insane.

[bravenak]

66. I would but it might help Bernie.

[TCJ70]

68. I suppose I shouldn't expect honesty...

...from the Hillary camp. That kind of thinking will only perpetuate her untrustworthiness in people's eyes and what will lead to her eventual defeat in the GE...should she get there.

[bravenak]

70. I just was honest.

I don't want to help him. Honestly.

[Rocky the Leprechaun]

83. For the status quo, I see.

Enjoy the bubble that you apparently entered awhile ago and never left. The truth is, Bravenak, is that you are a coward and a defeatist.

[bravenak]

87. Ha ha ha!

[TCJ70]

57. Good grief, he's never said anything about removing progressive taxation...

...do you even know how tax brackets work?

[wilsonbooks]

47. Bernie sure doesn't have a problem with me and I have been a Democrat

all of my 63 years. Nope. No problem at all. Now I do have a problem with Democrats who talk like Democrats but vote like republicans.

[bravenak]

53. He has issues with the ones who he needs to fight for his agenda.

Unless he plans on walking legislation down to congress and forcing Mitch Mcconell and Paul Ryan to quiver with fear. I think Paul Ryan does PX90 and ol Mitch looks like a dirty fighter.

[wilsonbooks]

58. They will play ball with hillary though? I don't think so.

[bravenak]

65. The democrats in congress?

Yes. Him? Not so much.

[wilsonbooks]

71. That is what the 2020 Democratic primaries will be about. A through housecleaning.

http://www.azquotes.com/quote/1038992

Given the choice between a Republican and someone who acts like a Republican, people will vote for the real Republican all the time

Harry S. Truman

Read more at: http://www.azquotes.com/quote/1038992

[bravenak]

73. What if the rest of us are not interested in getting rid of our reps?

You think we defer to him in selecting our candidates?

[wilsonbooks]

74. It will be up to the voters to decide if they want to reelect representatives who obstruct a

populist agenda that the majority of the American people want. My guess is most will get on board.

[SheilaT]

55. The corporate Democrats and the

establishment ones don't like him. It's really weird the way ordinary people, otherwise known as the 99%, seem to like him.

Someone like him who shakes up the status quo is very threatening to those who are highly invested in the status quo.

Plus, of course, Bernie has been in Congress for how long? So of course he hasn't any experience in working with Congress.

Articles like this are simply a sign of how desperate the establishment is getting.

[bravenak]

72. So? Congress?

Well that takes care of any yes votes on his legislation that Mitch and Paul won't put up for a vote anyways.

[rosesaylavee]

56. It should worry the DNC what

happens if they do not nominate him if he wins the primary election.

I, for one, will leave the Democratic Party if they try this next summer. I am very unhappy now with the way the DNC Chairwoman has been running the debates. I do not feel that there has been impartiality. This is a silly idea. Hopefully they are not truly considering it.

And what this journalist is not considering is what an energized Democratic electorate would do on election day. If Senator Sanders is the nominee, all boats would rise for the Democrats. And it would prove that we are indeed a big tent.

[Mike Nelson]

61. Sanders is a Democrat...

...according to a couple of posts replying to me. I asked, and was told he now identities as a Democrat. So, I believe the Democrats would rally for him, instead of Hillary, if he should win the Democratic nomination.

Did not consider many Democrats already in office may dislike Bernie... I suppose that may be true. After all, he mainly ran against Democrats. Still, I expect the Democrats to support their nominee.

I do agree, with the author, that Bernie would likely be paralyzed by Congress, should he win. Agree also, it's unlikely and would hand full control of the US Government to the Republican Party.

[bravenak]

69. I am unsure they would support him

We have never had a non democratic new democratic nominee. And not one who attacked the party for years. I am just not seeing people giving full support, nothing beyond lip service to ideas. Probably run ads against him in the off year

[Turn CO Blue]

86. Exactly! Why isn't anybody else saying this more often?

I mean, nobody important is endorsing him! Nobody important gives him financial support! Nobody important shows up to hear him speak.

[bravenak]

93. .

I wanna know too!

[Arazi]

63. This is a good article . Sanders has a POC problem

its time to take action!

[Gothmog]

88. This section in the article explains why Hillary Clinton has so many endorsement and super delegates

From the article cited in the OP

Party opposition to Sanders is especially strong among Democratic officeholders. In FiveThirtyEight’s endorsement primary, Clinton has a lead over Sanders of 466 to 2. Although endorsements themselves may not matter much in swaying voters, they’re an indication of the depth of party support, which will likely translate into a substantial edge for Clinton among the 712 superdelegates at the Democratic convention unless she stumbles badly in the primaries.

Sanders and his supporters see the party support for Clinton as evidence that “the establishment” is against him. But there are two other interpretations. What party leaders necessarily care about is winning the next election. They look at the electability of the presidential candidate as it affects the electoral prospects of candidates at all levels, including their own. The endorsement primary is a symptom of deep anxiety about what Sanders would do to the entire party’s fortunes in November.

The lack of support for Sanders among elected Democrats may also reflect his lack of support for them. During 2015, Clinton raised $18 million for other Democratic candidates, while Sanders did no fundraising for them at all. Those are just last year’s numbers. The difference in party fundraising between them going back decades would surely be even more dramatic. After all, before this campaign began, Sanders was emphatic that he was not a Democrat.

Sanders has left a long trail of denunciations of the Democratic Party. He began on the revolutionary left; in 1980, he served as an elector for the Socialist Workers’ Party, founded by Leon Trotsky and committed to nationalizing major industries. In 1989 he said the Democrats and Republicans were “in reality, one party—the party of the ruling class.” That year he wrote an op-ed in the New York Times describing the two parties as “tweedle-dee” and “tweedle-dum” since both subscribed to what he called an “ideology of greed and vulgarity.” As the Republican Party has moved to the right, Sanders has said the Democrats are better, but he has refused to run as a Democrat and continued to insist—as late as the 2012 election—that he is not a Democrat because the party fails to support the interests of workers.

[bravenak]

91. Yep.

That part explains his soon to be loss. Team sport.

[KittyWampus]

99. His sanctimonious pontificating is toxic to any Democrat running. His past insults

on the ENTIRE Democratic party would be used against other Democrats no matter who they are and how they voted or what their constituency is.

The whole myth that Sanders would make sweeping changes hinges on his getting more Democrats elected.

His long list of attacks on the entirety of the Democratic Party would ensure that is impossible.

He is an ideologue using demagoguery to stir up people with anger and making promises with no achievable path.

If he weren't an ideologue maybe he'd have been more specific, maybe he would have qualified his statements.

[redstateblues]

104. Nailed it KittyWampus!

[mhatrw]

107. It's weird how he has the same problem with Democrats that I have with many Clinton supporters.

I have a real problem with people who are quite comfortable with corruption and inequity just as long as they are getting theirs.