When Hillary raises her voice she is charged with "screaming" when Bernie yells no problem

[awake]

I have never heard of any blow back when Bernie yells but Hillary is held to a different standard. Even though I support Bernie it is clear to see that the media will not look kindly to Hillary raising her voice. Obama had a similar issue where if he came off as upset he would have been called an "angry Black man". It is unfortunate that in 2016 there are double standards. I have noticed that Elizabeth Warren is able to raise her voice with out the same blow back and I am not sure why this is.

[closeupready]

1. So Hillary should run an ad, how unfair everyone is being to her.

Sound good?

[awake]

2. I would not think that would help

[closeupready]

4. But then, isn't this post pointless? What IS your point?

I'm not understanding why you started this thread.

[awake]

8. on another thread this article was posted and got me thinking

Clinton Campaign Coverage Goes Off the Rails -- Again
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-boehlert/-clinton-campaign-coverag_b_9188182.html

[KittyWampus]

26. It highlights the sexism and hypocrisy and bullying of Sanders supporters.

[closeupready]

31. In pursuit of what, Hillary's nomination? Victim-in-Chief? If she can't take it,

then she needs to withdraw from the race.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

10. She's making that point pretty consistently

I thought it backfired on her the other night.

[m-lekktor]

3. I have seen many here complain about Bernie yelling.

"I don't like being yelled at" etc. when somebody complains about Hillary yelling it is SEXISM though.

[awake]

5. Yes here that may be true but not in the main stream media

Bernie gets a pass while Hillary is attacked, now the media will attack Bernie for being a "Radical Solicits".

[m-lekktor]

11. I will take your word for it! I haven't seen much one way or the other on the yelling thing

in the media, just the DUer comments in regards to it!

[TheBlackAdder]

14. Please see Post #13. nt

[m-lekktor]

23. I read it!

We can make fun of fat Rush limbaugh and Trumps ridiculous hair and it doesn't effect them like it does women according to this. I appreciate you directing me to your post. I will absorb this for a bit.

[Oilwellian]

43. I disagree...to a point

Usually, when someone yells at me and tells me we can do something together that is positive, I can handle it. But if someone yells at me and says we can't do something positive, it's a real turn off. It doesn't matter what gender they are in that scenario.

[Hortensis]

6. Just wait -- if Elizabeth Warren endorses Hillary

she'll be seen as yet another traitor and be stood against the same wall as Hillary.

[hollysmom]

7. when anyone yells, they lose me

and I can tell you,I could not watch the debate because both seemed to be yelling, I read the transcript instead.

[earthside]

9. Poor persecuted Hillary.

Actually, it isn't that Hillary raises her voice, it's that the tone and inflection indicate a kind of desperation ... in verbal communication nuance matters.

For me, when Hillary's eyes get big and her voice gets loud, it's an indication that she is telling a fib.

[Vinca]

12. There's just something about Hillary's voice.

She's quite likable when she speaks in a normal tone of voice. It usually happens for about 5 minutes into an event, then she morphs into the person who gives me flashbacks to my late stepmother . . . and that's not a good thing. One of the pundits made the observation that she doesn't have a natural talent for politicking and always seems uncomfortable in her own skin. I think that's what the problem is. Bill was a natural. Obama was a natural. Bernie's a natural. Elizabeth Warren is a natural. I guess that's why they can raise their voices and not seem phony the way Hillary does.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

18. Hillary needs a good voice coach.

It's possible to speak loudly and intensely without sounding forced or like you are screaming. It's just a matter of learning how to control your breath and not tensing up your vocal cords. A voice coach could help her. I don't think it's a matter of personality as much as just not knowing how to speak strongly but comfortably - which some people can do naturally but she can't. Her "normal" voice is OK; it's her fortissimo voice that needs work.

[Vinca]

25. Exactly. She's not a bad person, but she ends up coming off just the opposite.

[TheBlackAdder]

13. Comments about looks, voice, clothing, etc. hurt female candidates, while not hurting males.

.


Gendered attacks, like those, are deliberately used in the media and in campaigns.


We've seen it with Geraldine Ferraro, Sarah Palin, and Hillary Clinton. They talk about clothes, eyeglasses, hair style, their voice, and use terms like scornful, shrewish, harpie, beautiful, feminine, etc. all to drive electability down.


Rutgers-Eagleton Center for American Woman and Politics, as well as other researchers, found a 5% reduction in electability when mentioning anything POSITIVE or NEGATIVE about the looks or personal attributes of female candidates. Men are not negatively impacted by these things... just women.


http://www.cawp.rutgers.edu/


.

[awake]

19. Bernie's hair was an issue till he owned it and made it part of a logo

And do not forget Marcos "boots"

[TheBlackAdder]

28. Bernie's hair wouldn't have affected him anyway, without his ownership--a weird societal thing. nt

[earthside]

22. Undoubtedly true.

But whining about is not going to garner votes for a woman candidate.

As Hillary herself would say: Deal with reality!

[TheBlackAdder]

29. True. Her direct action will reflect negatively. But attention needs to be drawn to this phenomenon.

[nichomachus]

36. Women, in general, put more stock in how they dress

So it's only natural that people pay attention to it.

Men, generally, wear what amount to "uniforms." Watch the debate. Men will be dressed in a dark suit, striped tie, and black shoes. But then, look at anything in society. Men are wearing their uniforms. Women try to dress differently, to attract attention, and to be unique. God forbid that two women show up -- especially at a society event -- wearing the same outfit.

This invites comment and critique. Watch a red-carpet show. When was the last time anyone ever asked a man "Who are you wearing?" Most women are asked. You can claim that's sexist, if you want, but most women would be devastated if no one paid any attention to the outfit -- especially when she spent a lot of money on it and spent an afternoon picking out just the right shoes to go with it.

And before anyone gets too bent out of shape, just remember all the gushing talk about Michelle Obama -- even here on DU -- about how beautiful she is, now classy she dresses, how her hair is gorgeous. Was that all sexist? I don't think so.

So, this is pretty much how society works. The fact that it spills over into the political sphere is natural.

[TheBlackAdder]

41. Michelle Obama was/is not running for office.

.


Regardless of how you try to paint this construct, the damage to a woman is there.

Female politicians know this dynamic too, and would rather not have that as part of the discourse. While the men go right to the topics, the female candidates are first told how pretty or ugly they look, and then they might move to substance, but most of the time, their 20-30 seconds are used up.

It is used in the media and online to trivialize a woman, much like mentioning why a female politician is running when there are children in the house--to evoke subconscious gender thoughts. The media and political campaigns know there damage is inflicted on a candidate receiving such attention.


Missing are the comments of a 'shrill' or 'cackling' voice. They are often followed by insinuations of a dowager or shrew.


Yet, conscious or not, the loss of 5% point of electability when these things occur is what's at question.


.

[NowSam]

15. Some voices are more pleasing to the ear

than others but of course it is individual preference. I think I don't mind Bernie getting Lout because when he does he is speaking truth to power.

[Fumesucker]

17. Happens to anyone who is habitually quieter and raises their voice to be heard

People who are always loud get away with it, it's part of who they are.

It's mostly loud people who don't know this.

[treestar]

20. Yes the media will have a double standard

White men can do whatever and don't have to deal with these things.

[H2O Man]

21. Interesting.

Recommended.

I have heard (on tv) people make note of Bernie's speaking loudly. But it doesn't compare to the amount of negative attention that results when Hillary speaks loudly. A large part of that, in my opinion, is rooted in sexism. And part of it is due to some people attacking Ms. Clinton for anything and everything she says or does.

[oasis]

24. No problem for Madam President at meetings with her cabinet.

Right now, she's in campaign mode. I met her at book signing (2003-2004?) she had a most amiable, gracious disposition and a soothing voice tone.

[Orsino]

27. Yep. While I think she is actually hampered by a mildly unpleasant voice...

...the "screaming" and "screeching" charges are just sexist.

[senz]

30. Bullchit. They both yell.

[cali]

32. That is false. He regularly gets criticised for shouting

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/02/opinion/gail-collins-bernie-sanders-yells-his-mind.html

http://videos.nymag.com/video/Bernie-Sanders-Yells-At-Obama-O

https://mobile.twitter.com/sallykohn/status/654098652676423681

http://msmagazine.com/blog/2016/01/19/why-is-bernie-yelling-at-me/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-double-standard-behind-why-millennials-love-bernie-sanders/2016/02/04/dce7b458-cb85-11e5-a7b2-5a2f824b02c9_story.html

[awake]

33. I had not noticed thoes

[intheflow]

37. Thanks.

I was going to post all of these but you saved me from searching for them again.

I'll say that posts saying Clinton screetches or is shrill are sexist because those are terms that have historically been used about women. But screaming isn't one of those terms. To wit: the Dean Scream, Munch's painting The Scream depicts a male, "screaming" is used to describe the vocal technique used in most heavy metal and punk music (dominantly male genres), etc.

[retrowire]

44. This ^ nt

[RoccoR5955]

34. Boo Hoo! n/t

[sadoldgirl]

35. I don't find her voice irritating,

but each of us has a different level of tolerance.

However, I found Perot's voice a bit much to
listen to, but it did not seem to hurt his
campaign. jmo.

[mikehiggins]

38. Ahhh, its a Jewish thing. Maybe its tied to failing hearing or something.

Whoa! I can hear the alerts being typed all the way here in Santa Fe.

Well, here's another: Some of my best friends are jews. Hell, almost all of them are. Go figure.

Oh, and I married a Puerto Rican Baptist girl (shocked the hell out of my HibernoAmerican family) so how can I earn an alert by that? Hell. Puerto Rican girls (baptist or not) are HOT. How about that? Anti Semetic, racist and sexist all in one shot. Enjoy!

[CTyankee]

39. Joe Scum did exactly that last week. He remarked on HRC's voice and the very next

clip of Bernie's was also loud and Joe said nothing. I support Bernie but if we're going to harp on HRC's voice, we have to do it for ALL of the candidates.

[DrFunkenstein]

40. The Problem For Clinton Is Her Voice Doesn't Seem Grounded

She comes off like a bad actor who is unable to embody the character from within.

In music, there are people like, say, Kurt Cobain who can sing from a genuine place, and people who don't have the courage of their convictions.

Bob Dylan didn't have a "good voice," but you believed that he meant every word he said/mumbled.

I don't doubt Clinton when she says that she envies how "natural" her husband has been at public speaking. I'm sure Clinton comes off as much more sincere in an intimate setting, but on the stump she sounds (in my humble opinion, of course) like a hack.

Elizabeth Warren believes what she says, so raising her voice doesn't come off as a calculation.

[Motown_Johnny]

42. IMO, it is the pitch.

Her higher pitched voice sounds more like a scream while Bernie's lower pitched voice sounds more like a yell.


Call it sexist if you want, but it is the sound that is being made which people are commenting on. Not her gender.