How can Bernie POSSIBLY get moderates and republicans to work with him?

[Bubzer]

The answer is simple: He already has.

Bernie Sanders was first elected to the House of Representatives in 1990, and many immediately doubted his efficacy. “It is virtually impossible for an independent to be effective in the House,” said then-Congressman Bill Richardson (D-NM). “As an independent you are kind of a homeless waif.” Rep. Barney Frank (D-MA), today an outspoken advocate for Hillary Clinton, said Bernie's “holier-than-thou attitude—saying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone else—really undercuts his effectiveness.”

As if things didn't look bad enough, in 1994 the Republicans swept into power in the House of Representatives, dashing the hopes of many that Congress could do anything progressive whatsoever. But Sanders was not content with tilting at windmills. He didn't want to just take a stand, he wanted to pass legislation that improved the United States of America. He found his vehicle in legislative amendments.

Amendments in the House of Representatives are often seen as secondary vehicles to legislation that individual members sponsor, but they are an important way to move resources and build bipartisan coalitions to change the direction of the law. Despite the fact that the most right-wing Republicans in a generation controlled the House of Representatives between 1994 and 2006, the member who passed the most amendments during that time was not a right-winger like Bob Barr or John Boehner. The amendment king was, instead, Bernie Sanders.

Sanders did something particularly original, which was that he passed amendments that were exclusively progressive, advancing goals such as reducing poverty and helping the environment, and he was able to get bipartisan coalitions of Republicans who wanted to shrink government or hold it accountable and progressives who wanted to use it to empower Americans.

http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/bernie-gets-it-done-sanders-record-pushing-through-major-reforms-will-surprise-you

[bravenak]

1. On more entitlements?

That is not ever going to happen.

[daleanime]

26. Never ever....

[Kip Humphrey]

29. It most certainly won't happen if, Gods forbid, Hillary is elected. THAT.IS.FOR.SURE.

[Hortensis]

40. If Bernie were elected, he would bitterly disappoint

most of his anti-Democrat/anti-liberal supporters, inevitably, as those passionately hoping for the unachievable always are, and all too many would spend the next term to two terms badmouthing him. Let's remember all those who turned on Obama, just for the most recent example, when discussing this subject.

[Kip Humphrey]

47. anti-Democrat/anti-liberal supporters??? Really? Sounds like you are being inflamatory again.

Shame on you for spouting such bullshit.

[Hortensis]

52. Look up the terms. They're valid and no more inflammatory

than my being called a liberal and a Democrat. I'm proud of both. If others are not proud of opposing both liberals and Democrats and calling for a change of power away from them, they should ask themselves why. Note that the anti-liberal or anti-Democrat left is not to be confused by the anti-liberal right; very different, but opposing and trying to defeat us from both sides for different reasons.

The Left and the Right in Thinking, Personality, and Politics
by G. William Domhoff
http://www2.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/change/left_and_right.html

Who's Right? What's Left?
The anti-liberal left has historically been defined by the radical universalism of its principles, the anti-liberal right by its exclusionary (racial, ethnic, national) particularism.

https://newrepublic.com/article/50203/whos-right-whats-left

Of course, that IS a huge difference. If I must, I'll take our left-wing anti-liberals any day.

#CancelColbert and the Return of the Anti-Liberal Left
The left can only afford to be contemptuous of liberal values when the right isn't in charge.
http://www.thenation.com/article/cancelcolbert-and-return-anti-liberal-left/

#JeNeSuisPasLiberal: Entering the Quagmire of Online Leftism
http://theamericanreader.com/jenesuispasliberal-entering-the-quagmire-of-online-leftism/

[oasis]

60. 100% correct again. Hortensis, you are are waking 'em up.

[oasis]

57. You are 100% correct.

[Andy823]

68. Exactly

How long did it take the anti Obama crowd to form here on DU after he was elected president? The same group would be on Bernie's case within the first year because nothing was being done about all the promises that were put out during the campaign, but are shot down by the republicans.

What so many here seem to not understand is you have to start at the local level with any revolution. Then on to the state level, and then the national level. Having someone in the WH without having control of congress, both branches to support their ideas, is bound to fail. You can promise great things, things we all want, but you can't get them without congress, and that congress has to be fully behind the president who is asking for their help to get his agenda pushed through. Trickle down economics doesn't work, and neither does a trickle down revolution.

[Bohemianwriter]

45. Care to explain what you mean...

by "entitlements"?

Is education and healthcare "entitlements" unreasonable?

More unreasonable than bailing out Wall Street and give huge arms deals to the military industrial complex after taking their money?

So who do you want to deny these "entitlements" you scuffed at to begin with?


Kind regards

A Veteran

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

2. Copied and pasted from the other thread, but still not addressing the issue.

How does Sanders get what HE IS PROPOSING through Republican-dominated Congress?

Let's start with single payer.

Answer: He can't and that's why his supporters won't address the question directly.

[Bubzer]

4. Let's level the field here

How does Hillary get what SHE IS PROPOSING through Republican-dominated Congress?

Let's start with... ANY of her propositions... any at all.

Answer: She can't and that's why her supporters won't address the question directly.

The big difference here between Hillary and Bernie is he has experience getting things done in spite of the GOP.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

7. I answered in the other thread...

I'm no HRC fan, but at the very least, she seems to understand the realities of this Republican-dominated Congress.

It's Sanders and his supporters who wrongly believe that he'll be able to get single payer through a Republican-dominated Congress. Hell, he couldn't get his and Kucinich plan out of subcommittee, under a DEMOCRATIC-controlled Congress.

If President Obama had problems getting policies through what were loaded with Republican policy ideals, what makes Sanders and his fanatics believe that he'll be able to get anywhere with even less progressive representation in Congress?

This is a reasonable question, and it has not been addressed by Sanders and his backers.

By the way, anytime Sanders's supporters are asked about strategy, they deflect to HRC: What will HRC do?

This isn't about HRC. Stop deflecting.

This question is directed squarely to Sanders and his supporters.

[kenfrequed]

10. All questions are symmetrical

If a question is asked of one candidate it must be asked of all. It is not "deflecting" to hold all candidates to the same standards.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

11. Here's the thing: We know who Hillary is. We already know she won't do shit, and will likely go

along with the Republicans. That's why I'm not asking about HRC.

This thread is about Bernie Sanders.

Stop deflecting. Address the issue at hand.

[retrowire]

41. Here's the answer.

Neither candidate will pass shit against a Republican congress.

But Bernie has a following that will assist him in replacing that immovable congress in the midterms.

Hillary doesn't.

[basselope]

48. DING DING DING

[kenfrequed]

69. So..

You don't like Hillary either?

I don't have an answer for you.

I will tell you that I will settle for Hillary if I have to. But I am supporting Bernie because it is always better to try and fail than to not try at all. I don't know how a person can be so cynical as to give up on the possibility of fighting for change so completely like this unless it is all some kind of construct.

In negotations you walk to the table asking for more than you are willing to settle for and you fight for the ideal. That is how it is done. Power concedes nothing and you have to step up and stand up to be counted.

I think Bernie will go further than Hillary and he will put more good appointments into positions that will start to take back some of the power for the people. Even if he gets nothing through congress I am 100% certain his appointments will be sturdy.

And I will confess something to you, I am idealistic enough to even believe that maybe, maybe even Clinton might try to do some tiny scrap of change. However, I am realistic enough to point out that we need a lot more than going for scraps.

[Robbins]

12. I will bite

many what get through congress.but neither does anything clinton is now propsing.

Clinton will help GOP get what they want.that is clear from past.

Republicans will have to work with bernie or otherwise he will veto.plus people appointed by bernie won't be wall street people.

who will attempt to fight republicans in congress? Bernie or clinton.

unfortully using word fanatics makes me question you saying your not a HRC fan.

[Andy823]

67. So which ones will make it through congress?

Free college?
Medicare for all?
Paid maternity leave?
Raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour?

Any of his plans you can think of?

I am curious which ones you think might have a chance.

[Bubzer]

13. She "understands" the realities?

Yet she has no experience in putting her "understanding" to use getting the progressive agenda through a GOP controlled congress now does she? Bernie on the other hand does. He, at least, has experience he can leverage toward getting his agenda done.

The reason people ask what would HRC do, is it points out how ridiculous the question is. I have yet to meet anyone with a functioning oracle.

[jeff47]

15. Clinton's plan for health care is to expand the ACA.

This isn't about HRC. Stop deflecting.

Of course it's about Clinton. You are giving a reason to vote for Clinton over Sanders. The claim that she can get her plans through, and Sanders can't. That inherently makes it about Clinton too.

How does she expand the ACA with this "Republican-dominated Congress"?

They just launched a vote they knew was doomed to override Obama's veto of their latest kill-the-ACA bill. Clinton's plan is to get them to vote to expand the ACA. Any "executive actions" have to spend $0, because Congress holds the checkbook. You can't expand the ACA for free.

As for what Sanders is going to get passed, not much. Neither candidate will get much passed in the next two years. The point for voting for Sanders is to expand the Democratic coalition into the massive pool of disaffected voters. They left out of outrage over DLC-style politics. Let's get them back so that we can actually win Congress and start getting things done.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

16. Expanding and improving the ACA has more of a chance getting through than single payer.

[jeff47]

20. Zero is not larger than zero.

Expand the ACA is doomed while Republicans hold power.

To get Republicans out of power, we need to be talking about what Democrats want to do. Not what Republicans might let us do if we get them drunk enough.

So we should talk about things that are currently "pie in the sky". Because the way we get those disaffected voters back is to let them know what we really want to do with their vote. "Republicans might let us do _____" does not do that.

[Robbins]

21. no it doesn't

Inless there is change of congress nothing is being done on health care.you need someone who will continue to veto ACA repeal
and will fight republicans.that is bernie not clinton.Clinton is very unlikly to even try improving the ACA.her donors are fine with things the way they are.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

30. Then answer the question: HOW does single payer get through a REPUBLICAN

Congress.

Don't deflect with Hillary Clinton.

This is about Sanders ONLY!

Answer the question.

[Bubzer]

42. "This is about Sanders ONLY!" No it isn't and never will be, because hillary is the alternative.

You want to phrase this in a vacuum, but that's just not realistic.

[jeff47]

61. You're demanding you answer your own question...

Where'd you mean to reply?

[Bubzer]

64. lol

[DownriverDem]

49. Who are Bernie Supporters?

I will proudly vote for Hillary in the Michigan Primary, but if Bernie gets the nomination, I'll vote for him in November. Hillary has worked for women and children for decades. I get that most folks here are Bernie supporters and that's fine. However the attacks on Hillary by many of you do not reflect reality. And if you won't support her if she gets the nomination, then you really are just handing the White House and Supreme Court picks to some RWNJ. I just don't get Hillary haters unless it's true that you are really just a bunch of repubs.

[jeff47]

59. Hey look! It's another old account with a tiny post count that's

making a pro-Clinton post that isn't at all connected to the topic at hand.

So odd that every single one of these accounts is doing the exact same thing. You'd think there'd be at least one posting for Sanders.

[Enthusiast]

58. Maybe you should start your own thread rather than hijack this one with YOUR questions?

We expect a yooge voter turnout in the general election after Bernie wins the nomination. There will be real down ballot results because of the increased turnout which will change the nature of congress. The public will be behind Bernie because they support his objectives.

Bernie will also have the bully pulpit. And he will use it!

This is why the political establishment is united against Bernie. They are united because they are afraid he will accomplish his objectives. This is clear to many of us.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

37. If Hillary gave the republican everything they wanted - they would reject her offer

They will never support anything she does

[Akicita]

46. When it comes to neutering the power of Wall Street, corporations, and elites over our politicians

almost the entire country would back Bernie. Even the right wingers. The Tea Party was formed to fight the corruption of Big Money in the establishment Repug party. That's why Trump has so much support. If Bernie is elected he will have a huge groundswell of support to reform Washington corruption. If Hillary is elected it will just be more of the same.

[basselope]

5. I've addressed the question many times.

If Bernie is the candidate there is a very good shot there won't BE a Republican dominated congress because we will have 2008 like turnout, which even in today's gerrymandered districts will give the democrats enough seats.

Further, he doesn't NEED a super majority in the Senate, b/c he understands that he can get a lot of his agenda through via reconciliation, the way Obama could have had the public option.

Also, you want to watch the GOP fall into line quickly... get President Sanders in office... because it will send a CLEAR message to them what type of country this really is. Ultimately, they want their jobs more than anything else and if they KNOW their jobs are in danger.. they will actually do things.

They FEED on the apathy that candidates like Clinton carry b/c it allows them to keep their cushy jobs.

Sanders won't let them sit on the a$$ and not do anything but say no.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

9. We tried this with Obama where people were convinced that Obama would be able to change

the politics in Washington. It didn't happen for various reasons--but the #1 reason is due to the president's skin color.

I'm not convinced that Sanders will get any further. It would be different if the Congress were less right wing.

I just don't see how what he is proposing gets anywhere.

[basselope]

25. No, we did't try this with Obama.

Or should I say Obama didn't try this.

Obama got part 1 right. Huge coalition of people, securing congress.

Obama failed at part 2, because he capitulated the most important parts of his agenda.

In February of 2010, just months before a critical midterm election, the White House REMOVED the public option from ITS plan and didn't push the Senate to put it in via reconciliation, where they only needed 50 votes (http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/83641-sanders-senate-has-the-votes-to-pass-public-option-via-reconciliation)


Why do you think Obama's coalition fell apart by 2012, where he received 10 million LESS VOTES than he did in 2008? If those 10 million show up, the Democrats take back the house in 2012.. but they didn't because the person they were counting on to stay strong.. didn't. On issue after issue Obama gave in (I'm not talking about compromise, I am talking about pure capitation... ). Bush tax cuts are permanent, at this time he was STILL waffling on Keystone, etc..etc..

Turnout = Winning and the route to turnout is the people believing you will stay true to your agenda.

The public option was a KEY PART of the ACA, something the liberal base wanted above all else. Obama chose not to fight for it and so people chose not to fight for him.

I don't see how Clinton gets ANYTHING done, because she is just an Obama 3rd term, with even a smaller coalition.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

31. Wait, you don't know your candidate very well then.

Sanders and Denis Kucinich BOTH has single payer proposals. Neither proposal could not make it out of committee.

This was in a Democratic-controlled Congress.

[basselope]

35. Yeah... b/c the president was too afraid to back it.

Don't just ignore reality.

Single Payer is supported by the MAJORITY of people.. but not the big donors.

Obama didnt harness the power of the people once in office.

President Sanders wont make this mistake.

[Bubzer]

43. Not to mention it being "off the table" before it ever made it to the table.

[Enthusiast]

66. Yooge plus one!

[TCJ70]

6. Answer: He probably won't.

But that's the purpose of the Revolution. To get and keep people motivated to vote every year for changes that are needed. To keep pressure on Washington on the dissatisfaction. He works from the top, we work from the bottom.

He's the only one with any sort of plan or grasp of how vital this is. Hillary is just more of the same.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

14. WHY didn't Sanders and his supporters not have this politically nuanced view when Obama

faced the same predicament.

Be honest: was this in part about Obama's race?

Why is it that when it comes to Sanders, we accept that he'll have to compromise, but he's not bashed for it.

But when it came to Obama who faced fierce opposition from BOTH Democrats and Republicans, Sanders and his fanatics were merciless in their attacks, even calling for the president to be primaried.

Fast forward to this day and suddenly Sanders is stating that he supports the ACA (Obamacare)--after all his ridicule of the president.

I just think there's a great deal of hypocrisy on the Sanders' side.

Again, I know who Hillary is. We all know who she is.

We do not know who Sanders is, and his own attitude and behavior, leaves many suspicious and not trusting of him.

His supporters don't see this because many of them are so enamored by him that they can't look outside of themselves and exercise critical thinking. (By that, I mean his more rapid supporters--his fanatics!)

[jeff47]

17. Because Obama told us to go away.

Not literally, of course, but there's only so many times you get called "fucking retarded" by his chief of staff before you realize you are not wanted.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

18. That was his jerk of a Chief of Staff. Not Obama. Try again.

[jeff47]

22. Obama hired him and kept him on that job. That means Obama liked what he was doing.

Or was Obama somehow unable to fire his employee?

[Robbins]

23. The dem establishment is very much like Emanuel

Obama didn't say that.but the general feeling for liberals with establishment seems to be the same.

[TCJ70]

24. Obama's negotiation style left much to be desired

Remember taking the public option off the table? When your oppositions position is "Do nothing" your position has to be "Do everything". Otherwise you don't find the middle. Obama willingly capitulated far too early and didn't use his position as president to go after the chumps slowing things down. Yeah he got something done, but it's not what it could have been. Sanders wants to build on that but it's going to take a massive shift in Congress.

I don't know how you can say we don't know who Sanders is. He's been on point and on message for years. Have you seen the video of his speech agains the Iraq War Resolution? The guy predicted ISIS 13 years ago! Bernie Sanders is also responsible for the 11 billion spent on community health centers which are part of the ACA. He didn't oppose it, he knew it didn't go far enough.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

32. Again, review history: There were 3 public option proposals in the House

There were 2 public option proposals in the Senate.

None of the proposals could get passed the respective committees.

This in a Demoncratic Congress.

[TCJ70]

33. Your review of history makes the case for Sanders

Clinton wants to maintain the system, Sanders wants to move it forward.

[Bubzer]

50. The speaker of the house never allowed a vote on a public option.

Stop with the revisionist history crap.

http://www.rollcall.com/news/-43656-1.html

[vi5]

27. Many of us do accept and understand compromise....

...Personally speaking my problem with Obama wasn't that he compromised. It's that he compromised from an already compromised starting position. His opening bid on almost everything was a compromise that he thought would be welcomed with open arms by "reasonable republicans" and then only have to move slightly right. In fact if I remember correctly he himself cops to this naivete on his part.

The reason many of us are supporting Bernie is not because we believe that the gates of Congress will magically open up for him. They won't any more than they didn't for Obama and won't if HRC is the president. It's that he's choosing to start from a strong, solid progressive position on the issues. I don't think any of us expect that he's going to get all of it through. But if he starts from there, maybe there's a chance. Hillary is telling us all "I don't want to start from there. I want to start more from the center." And we've all seen where that ends up.

It comes down to a very simple concept and one that almost any person understands in any situation where you have to negotiate anything, let alone when negotiating with a group of sociopaths like the Republicans: Start by shooting as high as you can, no matter how crazy. Then you hopefully end up at someplace that is still acceptable.

My personal issues with HRC are the same as I had with Obama, except I trust her even less: You don't start negotiations from a point of capitulation.

[basselope]

36. BULL

We BEGGED Obama to stay strong on the public option and HE threw it away.

We could have had it if he pushed.. Obama abandonded us.. not the other way around

[saidsimplesimon]

38. We Democrats need to do more.

Why do we have a Republican dominated Congress? The same reason as always. Our Democratic Party establishment feeds at the same trough as Republicans. Instead of those who demonstrate political office is "serving the public", we have those like Senator Rubio who won on a wave and want to get out of dodge before the pitchforks appear.

[mikehiggins]

44. Here is how you do it.

You convince the incumbents that if they are too intransigent you will arrange for them to be primaried. If one or two go down in flames, and it won't take much more than that, President Sanders' phone will be ringing off the desk (yeah, I know that image pegs me as an old fart but things are what they are).

Senator/ Representative is the best job in the world. NOBODY wants to lose it and NOBODY wants to have to fight for it like a junkyard dog every time there is an election. Nor do they want to be sued or subject to recalled or anything like that. To these people there is nothing worse than sitting inside a rocking boat.

So we rock the boat and we get SOME of what we want. Not a lot at first, for sure, not everything. Maybe we'll never ever get everything we want but if we want to cut down the number of kids, mostly non-white, who're being thrown into ACTUAL slavery for smoking pot and other shit we have to join our hands and get that boat a'rocking.

In Europe, and elsewhere around the globe, change comes because the people fighting for it DO NOT GO AWAY after the voting is over. That is the way, by the way, the Right in this nation pulled off this massive ripoff of our political system.

We have to learn that freedom isn't free and nothing says the good parts of our society will survive without struggle.

Just saying...

[H2O Man]

3. Right.

Recommended.

[Arazi]

8. Kicked and Recced eom

[Ino]

19. OP link has many examples of legislation he got passed...

Do not underestimate him.

[Atman]

28. He can't. No Democrat can. It really doesn't matter.

The GOP will NOT, EVER work with any Democratic President. They don't care who turns out to be the Democratic nominee or POTUS. They truly believe they have been anointed by God (or their "higher power&quot to rule our nation, and any Democratic President will face the same obstruction as Obama did.

THIS IS NOT 1998. We keep hearing about how Republicans and Democrats and Tip O'Neill and blah blah blah. That was then. This is now. This is not your fathers' politics. This is cut-throat BUSINESS politics. Very, very wealthy people fighting to build higher castle walls and indenture more servants, vs. the servants.

Republicans will not work with ANYONE except other Republicans. If they do, they risk being ostracized and lose their funding.

Honestly, we're in a death spiral. I don't see how this is sustainable.

[font size='+2']We need to GET OUT THE VOTE and repeal/replace the GOP Congress which has totally fucked up the entire process of governing.[/font]

[DownriverDem]

53. Vote in off years

If it doesn't matter, then I want Hillary to be the first woman president.

[Atman]

55. I want Elizibeth Warrent to be the first woman president.

I want Bernie to be the first Democratic Socialist president.

I'm sorry...I just don't view Hillary as a Democrat. She is a woman, I get that part. But she is not very much a Democrat in principle. Lie down with dogs and wake up with fleas. Reap what you sow. And so on.

[Cosmocat]

56. Right

this whole who can work with these assholes thing ...

Ain't any person who is POTUS with a D next to his or her name will every have even the first bit of cooperation or have these assholes actually to their jobs.

I was around in the 90s, and was befuddled how bad it was then, and it is somehow much worse now.

We have NEVER seen a party so absolutely united like this one is.

They could literally have one person vote for all of them.

And, it isn't just democrats who are the issue in the voting booth.

95% of this country gets screwed by these assholes, who would screw everyone even worse if they could, they are out and out with it, don't even try to hide from it at this point ...

They have done countless things that, if the people of this country every had the first lick of sense, would have had them voted out the next election, and 95% of them will get reelected ...

We are getting, and will get, what we deserve ...

[Orsino]

34. Alone? He can't.

Fortunately, if elected president he will have garnered the support of the most voters. That's political capital that can force even the most corrupt Koch puppet to budge a little.

How much he gets done will be how much we get done, and how much we demand of the opposition.

[gollygee]

39. He's an idealist. He won't get everything passed that he's working toward.

But he might get us a step closer to those things being a reality. He'll reach for a goal and get us closer to it. This strategy has worked very well for the Republicans. I don't see why it won't work for us.

Also, President Obama has gotten a lot done despite an incredible level of opposition. The President can get stuff done even without Republican support.

[DownriverDem]

51. Go Red Wings

I just don't want him to end up like George McGovern.

[SoapBox]

54. K & R!

[Uncle Joe]

62. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Bubzer.

[Bubzer]

65. ...

[senz]

63. Bernie knows how to do it. He is trusted and works well with others.

[Bill USA]

70. you have established yourself as a #%&%# HERETIC. Do you want an accellerant on your fire?

Sanders true believers know how to handle heretics!!!!

[Bill USA]

71. minor details to be worked out after 'the Rapture'. - saith the Bernie supporters.