If Bernie Wins NH, it will be despite his coming from VT, not because of it

[cali]

Last edited Mon Feb 8, 2016, 01:58 PM - Edit history (3)

I'm a Vermonter. And boy is this spot on- except for the showering stuff.

HANOVER, N.H. — Hillary Clinton’s campaign maintains that Senator Bernie Sanders could win New Hampshire’s primary on Tuesday because he comes from neighboring Vermont. As Bill Clinton told NBC News: “Nobody from a state bordering New Hampshire has ever lost a Democratic primary to a non-incumbent president.”

But as natives of New Hampshire and Vermont are quick to note, if Mr. Sanders wins New Hampshire, it may be in spite if coming from Vermont, not because of it.

From afar, Vermont and New Hampshire look like two peas in a pod, but from the Birkenstock outlets in Vermont to the Harley-Davidson dealers in New Hampshire, these two states on opposite sides of the Connecticut River, could not be more different.

<snip>

Comparing and contrasting these two states has been a parlor game in New England for decades, if not centuries. It has produced academic studies and irreverent analyses, like one that boiled down the differences to this: Basically, if you live in New England and want to join a militia, then New Hampshire is for you. But if you want to skip showering and listen to NPR, then head on up to Vermont.


<snip>
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/08/us/more-than-a-riverseparates-bernie-sanderss-state-from-primarys.html?rref=collection%2Fnewseventcollection%2FPresidential%20Election%202016&action=click&contentCollection=Politics&module=Collection®ion=Marginalia&src=me&version=newsevent&pgtype=article&_r=0

[flor-de-jasmim]

1. Suppose you mean if he wins NH...

[cali]

2. Gee, isn't that what it says right in the op title line?

[cyberswede]

3. I think there's a typo

If Bernie Wins VT, it will be despite his coming from VT, not because of it

[cali]

5. Oops. Thank you!

[Lucky Luciano]

4. Yup!! Typo!

[stevebreeze]

6. Does NH somehow not know who Hilary is? So bothare equally well known to the whole of the population

Sanders has no advantage only a level shot.

[elias49]

28. What I say. If someone in NH doesn't know Hillary,

they've never voted.
Or watched the news (where one would seldom see Sanders, before he announced his candidacy.
But the Clinton camp will use any and every thing to win. Even stupid.

[cali]

7. Kick

[SheenaR]

8. People are clueless

If they think his winning has anything to do with geography.

I live in RI. We have nothing in common with our neighbors. Ted was the only one in recent times we truly knew well.

Hillary has been a fixture here for 25 years. If Bernie wins it will be because he a got a hard fought win

[SDJay]

9. It's a Common Misconception

that geographic proximity = cultural similarity. I think you can find that mistake made all over the country. For instance, I live in San Diego, and most people who are not familiar with our area assume that San Diego is just an outreach of Los Angeles - same city, only smaller than LA. Nothing could be further from the truth. The two cities are vastly different in many ways.

Same thing here.

[frylock]

14. Jim Rome touched on that last week. Always a fun discussion!

[SDJay]

23. Yeah...

I don't listen to him (or talk radio in general) often, but I do know that he got his radio start in San Diego and has spent the majority of his life in LA. He would be a good one to discuss those differences. If you don't mind me asking, what was the gist of what he said? I ask because I also find this to be an interesting topic.

[frylock]

24. Just the general observation that San Diegans are more laid back..

more of small town attitude. How we really HATE LA (not me, so much. Lakers and Kings fan.) and resent the comparisons.

[SDJay]

26. Gotcha. Thanks.

And pretty spot on from him, although I don't hate LA either - I just would really not want to live there. I do really, really hate driving through LA, but I'm guessing I'm far from alone on that perspective. I've had folks who aren't from SoCal ask me how long it takes to drive through LA. I told them that the quickest I've ever done it was in 45 minutes and the longest was 5 hours. So, somewhere between those two.

I'll stop now as I know this is a threat about VT/NH, but thanks for the response.

[frylock]

30. I've driven home from Nor Cal and breezed through LA..

only to spend two hours getting from San Juan Cap to Carlsbad!

[SDJay]

33. Yep.

If even the smallest thing goes wrong on the 5 near Camp Pendleton, you're screwed - nowhere to go or any hope of driving around it. I've been stuck there for hours in the middle of the night, even.

[Jefferson23]

10. Very interesting distinctions, thanks. No wonder they want to down play it. n/t

[cali]

12. The differences have long fascinated me

They really are striking.

[karynnj]

11. I think. no Vermonter has ever won a NH primary

I think only Dean ever tried. He could have blamed his loss on NH always voting for MA candidates.

[bettyellen]

13. who are "Harley-Dating dealers in New Hampshire"? What lefty still listens to NPR?

[flamingdem]

16. More like the Thom Hartman show

Though my family in Vermont does listen to NPR (and the Bernie hour on Thom Hartman).

[bettyellen]

25. I am truly stumped by the "Harley dating dealers" thing? Is it about bikers and meth?

I have no idea at all!

[flamingdem]

29. I don't remember seeing Harleys in VT much but both states have a big drug problem

That really shocked me. Vermont is not all elite ex-New Yorkers living the gentleman farmer life. There are lots of rural poor on drugs, though I think it's more heroin than meth. Hmm. Maybe Vermont has heroin and NH has meth! That sort of fits the description of the article.

[elias49]

31. Harley Davidson dealers.

I think your mind did a spell check wrong!

[bettyellen]

34. No, the OP edited it from dating to dealers. Kept editing it all day?!?!

[flamingdem]

15. No taxes in NH right? Taxes are pretty high in VT

and Romney vacations in NH.. that says something.

[cali]

18. No income tax and no sales tax. It has high property taxes

[flamingdem]

21. I had to get to the end of the article to learn that and it's interesting

to know that - and a big difference. I am not that into Vermont being my legal address in the future because they tax income quite a bit. Just guessing that some people have a legal address in New Hampshire and live in Vermont, if they rent, to avoid taxes. Or Florida!

[H2O Man]

17. Recommended.

Thank you!

[amborin]

19. drive across the state border from VT to NH and suddenly advertising billboards everywhere

NH is the billboard capital of new england

[flamingdem]

22. I always noticed that. Vermont is pristine by comparison

and by design. Viva Vermont!

[seaglass]

20. As a resident of MA, living close to the NH border and spending lots of time there with less time in

VT - I would agree that the 2 states do not have many similarities.

If this was about the GE I would agree that being from VT would not help Bernie. I am not so sure of that in the Democratic Primary.

I would suggest that the 2000 GE in NH where Nader voters made the difference between Bush winning vs Gore is more of a sign that Bernie has a benefit in NH than his being from VT.

[Arazi]

27. Interesting article and feedback cali. Thanks for posting this eom

[ProudToBeLiberal]

32. I once went without showering 5 days with a group of 4 on a road and camping trip.

After the first day or two, you get use to it. I'm sure the people who don't shower in Vermont are in similar boats. I heard it was very beautiful up there. It's one of the places I want to visit and hike.

[Vinca]

35. You're exactly right, cali.

I was born in Vermont and lived most of my life in Vermont, but moved to NH about 15 years ago to take advantage of a good real estate deal. At the time I wasn't particularly interested in politics. If I had been, I probably would still be living in Vermont. There are some grade A crazies over here and I'm very surprised (and happy) Bernie has done so well.

[Atman]

36. I totally agree.

Two entirely different states. And states of mind. Divided by a river.

I love Vermont. It is beautiful, it is rustic, it is hip, it is old school, it has such a wonderful vibe all around. Everywhere we go in Vermont...the friendliest people. Everyone is "educated," even if they barely made it out of high school. They love and care for their state. They're big into solar and wind. They're self-sufficient. They're what America used to be, as corny as that sounds. I absolutely love Vermont.

I avoid going to New Hampshire at all costs. My brother, sister and mother live there, so I am occasionally forced to cross the Granite State border. But I no longer feel that I am even in New England anymore. The southern border is just a mall-infested suburb of Boston (another way-cooler place to be), while the middle part of the state is like a big industrial park with trees. The Lakes Region is still pretty, if you know where to go (look into Mitt's neighborhood in Wolfesboro...we always used to think Wolfesboro was the low-end, but I guess things have changed). Drive way up north and you're in another world. It's beautiful and mountainous, but still kind of deep-south with snow. New Hampshire is a weird place. I spent lots of time in NH growing up, still have family there, but it really just doesn't seem to be one of those "New England" states. Sorry, NH friends...that's the perspective of a Mass boy who grew up on the beaches of Florida, spent my summers on Lake Winnipesaukee, then settled in Connecticut.

I just don't see New Hampshire people giving a flying f00k about the fact that Bernie is from Vermont. To the contrary, they're more likely to hate the commie socialist bastard from across the river in hippie-land.

[KittyWampus]

37. FAIL. He's blowing his huge lead.

[cali]

38. Lol. Like hilly dear did in Iowa? Hey, if he wins by 1% he'll win by

a greater margin than she did in Iowa.

And the lying Clintons and their pals certainly are doing their worst.

But have fun cheering on Madame EthicsFree