Why did Bernie Sanders JOIN an "establishment" political party that he used to trash?

[RBInMaine]

Establishment establishment establishment. Anyone who disagrees with Mr. Sanders on any issue is suddenly part of the "establishment." Yet Mr. Sanders has been in politics for DECADES. He too has made deals with Republicans and has had to compromise. He too attended at least one lobbyist fundraiser and maybe others. Most of all, after years of trashing the Democratic Party (equating it to the R party and all the rest), and wishing his candidate Jesse Jackson had run as an Indy, he has now JOINED an "establishment" political party ADMITTEDLY because he said he would never have a hope in hell of becoming President as an Indy. Is this hypocritical?

On the one hand, good that he has "seen the light" and become a Democrat. It requires ORGANIZATION to win in American politics. And he has said he would support the Dem nominee even if it isn't himself, which is good. I hope that he will follow through on that and do so BIGTIME because he says that an R win would be a DISASTER. But, will his new followers ALSO support the Dem nominee if he doesn't win the nomination? Or will they drown themselves in NON-REALITY PURITY and sit out or go vote for the R? So many of the Bernie voters seem motivated more by anger than a comprehensive analysis of the ISSUES. Obviously, any real "progressive" for Bernie would find Hillary the best second choice over ANY of the RePUKES. So the attacks on Hillary need to STOP. She is in the VERY SAME PARTY THAT BERNIE JOINED.

[hollysmom]

1. please give me an example of him trashing it?

thank you.

[RBInMaine]

4. Oh please. Go find the HUNDREDS of clips of him comparing us to the R's.

[hollysmom]

7. No, if you make hte claim, you provide the evidence.

that's how it works in the world

[RBInMaine]

13. Just ONE example is the clip of him supporting Jackson in "Media" on this board right now.

Go watch it. There are MANY others out there. Search them. This is well ESTABLISHED. Stop diverting. Answer the premise of the OP. Whey did he JOIN the "establishment" if never liked the "establishment" before.

[hollysmom]

15. it should be in your OP.

I am going to bed, to late to google.

[Hortensis]

41. Bernie joined the Democratic Party to use it.

[kennetha]

27. There are tons.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/bernie-sanders-2016-democrats-121181

[jfern]

2. Hillary is the one taking the low road, just like 8 years ago

Obama supporters were "cult like" for supporting "the messiah", who was running a "fairy tail" campaign. Only difference is she's running an even lower in gutter campaign this time.

[RBInMaine]

5. Diversion. FAILURE to answer the OP. Typical.

[jfern]

9. So it's OK for Hillary to be miles deep in the gutter?

[RBInMaine]

14. Radical statement and DIVERSION DIVERSION DIVERSION. Typical. So typical.

[Rocky the Leprechaun]

30. Are you even listening to yourself?

Re-read what you are writing.

[tazkcmo]

28. Lack of evidence.

OP failure. Throw at an accusation but provide no proof except "oh please!". Classic but weak. The real answer is so he doesn't split the vote and aid a Republican victory but you knew this.

[Mbrow]

47. Exactly, it is also why he said

He would not run as an independent if he lose the primary. And why many of us who dislike HRC will vote for her if she wins..... Many have said this over and over.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

39. Nope! Hillary and her surrogates ran an arrogant, *very racist* campaign in 2008.

Now Bernie Sanders' fanatics are doing the same.

I know HRC is a devil. I know what I'm getting.

On the other hand, I do not trust Bernie Sanders. His stance on race is ridiculous!

Can't wait until we get to the more diverse states so that people of color can have their say and speak for themselves.

Iowa, New Hampshire are NOT representative of the Democratic Party.

[cyberswede]

46. What is ridiculous about his stance on race, specifically?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

48. Once again: That racial or social justice can only be achieved through economic equality.

I and many others believe that this is wrong. And there is ample evidence to show that regardless of how much economic equality black Americans have achieved--and we have achieved a great deal--racism persists! Systemic racial discrimination persists! It has little to do with class.

Damn, if you don't know your own candidate's stance on this issue, that's your problem.

[cyberswede]

62. His stance on race encompasses more than economic equality

I don't think Sanders has ever said that racial or social justice can only be achieved through economic equality.

Economic justice is only one of five main areas where racial justice should be addressed.

We must pursue policies to transform this country into a nation that affirms the value of its people of color. That starts with addressing the five central types of violence waged against black, brown and indigenous Americans: physical, political, legal, economic and environmental.

Things like
- demilitarizing the police, diverse police forces, public data on police shootings, federal crack-down on illegal hate groups...
- fighting the disenfranchisement of minority voters...
- ban for-profit prisons, abandon the war on drugs, investigate arrest quotas, stop local governments that rely on fines, etc for revenue...
- protect low-income & minority communities from impacts of climate change, improve environmental cleanup efforts of Superfund hazardous waste sites in communities of color, stop the unequal exposure of people of color to harmful chemicals, pesticides and other toxins in homes, schools, neighborhoods and workplaces and challenge faulty assumptions in calculating, assessing and managing risks, discriminatory zoning and land-use practices and exclusionary policies...

Lots more detail on ways to address all five areas of racial injustice:
https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

I checked Hillary's website, and while she doesn't have "racial justice" as a specific issue, the issues on her website that address criminal justice reform and voting rights are very similar to Bernie's.

Her section on economic issues says she will:
- Give working families a raise, and tax relief that helps them manage rising costs.
- Create good-paying jobs and get pay rising by investing in infrastructure, clean energy, and scientific and medical research to strengthen our economy and growth.
- Close corporate tax loopholes and make the most fortunate pay their fair share.

Bernie's section on economics (under the racial justice section) says we must:
- give our children, regardless of their race or income, a fair shot at attending college. That’s why all public universities should be made tuition free. We should pay for that with a tax on Wall Street speculators.
- invest $5.5 billion to create 1 million jobs for disadvantaged young Americans who face high unemployment rates and job-training opportunities for hundreds of thousands of young adults. We should pay for that by ending the loophole allowing Wall Street hedge fund managers to pay a lower tax rate than nurses or truck drivers.
- increase the minimum wage to a livable wage of $15 an hour by 2020 —which will increase the wages of about half of African-Americans and nearly 60 percent of Latinos.
- invest $1 trillion to put 13 million Americans to work rebuilding our crumbling cities, roads, bridges, public transportation systems, airports, drinking water systems and other infrastructure needs. We should pay for that by closing offshore tax loopholes.
- pass federal legislation to ensure pay equity for women.
- prevent employers from discriminating against applicants based on criminal history by “banning the box.”
- promote policies to give the formerly incarcerated an opportunity for education, including expanding the Second Chance Pell Pilot Program and reentry programs.
- ensure access to quality affordable childcare for working families, especially for parents who work non-traditional hours.
- fundamentally re-write our trade policies and rebuild factories that were closed as a result of bad trade deals.

I don't think either one is ridiculous.

[kath]

3. oh, is this the recycled anti-Bernie Meme of the Day?

[RBInMaine]

6. The Hillary attacks by the Bernie people are vicious and endless. ADDRESS the OP. Don't divert.

[Rocky the Leprechaun]

33. Let me address that for you.

Hillary attacks are our FACTS. It is nothing but the facts about the character and her issues. What makes it an attack is that Clinton supporters sees the fact and knows it's true, and now it's time to twist it to an attack.

So when Bernie speaks the truth about Clinton's shortcomings, he speaks the truth. The reason he was a long-serving independent in Congress is because both Parties were too far to the right from him. Bernie joined the Democratic Party to put it back to its progressive origins, and you're criticizing him from the far right spectrum that Clinton and her supporters unfortunately happen to be.

Truth is, the 2016 version of Clinton is much worse than the 2008 version of Clinton. That is the main reason I am a Bernie supporter.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

40. When Sanders attacks HRC has the "Establishment Candidate" but he himself has been in Washington

for over 30 years, I have to laugh.

Sorry, but they're BOTH representative of the so-called Establishment.

[RBInMaine]

11. Why did Bernie JOIN the D party if he doesn't like "the establishment"????? ANSWER please.

[pinebox]

52. Because you need to be part of a 2 party system to win the presidency

Happy? That's why.

[Fumesucker]

8. Bless your heart, K&R for sheer effort

[fourcents]

10. Bernie Sanders was one of the Founders of the Democratic progressive caucus and has caucused with

them. Bernie the amendment king has gotten more democratic causes accomplished than most.

[RBInMaine]

12. Then why didn't he just JOIN the PARTY back then? Why now? A DIRECT answer please.

[fourcents]

16. Respectfully, because the Amendment king could get more Democratic issues done by..........

not being beholden to the corrupt side of the party. This is why he is the biggest on Campaign finance reform. This why he will not take unpatriotic PAC money. This is how if he becomes POTUS he will be a public servant not an employee of the giant donors.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

42. Too busy trashing the party because it wasn't "pure" enough.

[delrem]

17. Oh cry me a river, from your sad eyes.

I like to see the flow.

[beam me up scottie]

18. .

[delrem]

19. It's the gift of freedom!

[beam me up scottie]

20. If they keep this up no one will vote for her if she wins the nomination.

I don't care to be browbeaten and threatened on a daily basis, it pisses me off.

[delrem]

21. I would never vote for someone like her. Never.

You could hold a gun to my head, and I'd say "fuck you".

Don't you blame me for what comes around if I don't vote for such as you!
I have my own grounding.

[cali]

22. Bwahahaha

[Warren Stupidity]

23. Tomorrows whumping can't come soon enough.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

50. Can't wait until we get to more diverse states. Lily white Iowa and New Hampshire are NOT

representative of the Democratic Party.

More diverse voting constituencies will decide this thing. That's when the REAL race starts.

[islandmkl]

61. yes...let's get to some states where the Clintons made things SO much better...

“Far from resisting the emergence of the new caste system, Clinton escalated the drug war beyond what conservatives had imagined possible a decade earlier. As the Justice Policy Institute has observed, “the Clinton Administration’s ‘tough on crime’ policies resulted in the largest increases in federal and state prison inmates of any president in American history.” Clinton eventually moved beyond crime and capitulated to the conservative racial agenda on welfare. This move, like his “get tough” rhetoric and policies, was part of a grand strategy articulated by the “new Democrats” to appeal to the elusive white swing voters. In so doing, Clinton—more than any other president—created the current racial undercaste. He signed the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act, which “ended welfare as we know it,” replacing Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) with a block grant to states called Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF). TANF imposed a five-year lifetime limit on welfare assistance, as well as a permanent, lifetime ban on eligibility for welfare and food stamps for anyone convicted of a felony drug offense—including simple possession of marijuana.”
― Michelle Alexander, The New Jim Crow


"Capitalism does not permit an even flow of economic resources. With this system, a small privileged few are rich beyond conscience, and almost all others are doomed to be poor at some level. That's the way the system works. And since we know that the system will not change the rules, we are going to have to change the system."
Martin Luther King, Jr.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

63. Those states have a more diverse electorate. Let THEM speak loudly

with their votes.

If Bernie Sanders wins, the people would have spoken and more representative of the Democratic Party than the two lily white majorities in IA and NH primaries.

If HRC wins, then so be it.

That's my point.

[cyberswede]

24. So he could run for the Democratic nomination and avoid being a spoiler.

Duh.

[Art_from_Ark]

25. Here's a question for you

Why are you now so gung-ho for a candidate YOU used to trash?

[longship]

26. Do you mean other than the fact that he has consistently caucused with the Democratic Party?

Oh please! This argument -- that Bernie isn't a Democrat -- is so, so tiring. Bernie has ALWAYS been on the side of the Democratic Party, in spite of the fact that he has called himself an independant. The problem is that the Democratic Party has lost their way. And yup! It began with the Reagan presidency, when some Dems decided that being Democratic wasn't good enough and moved the party much closer to the Republicans. And yup! It started with Bill Clinton, god love him.

I will be supporting and voting for Bernie Sanders in the primary because he has been a stalwart in supporting the Democratic Party.

[kennetha]

29. seriously?

You say:

Bernie has ALWAYS been on the side of the Democratic Party, in spite of the fact that he has called himself an independant.

Read this

“You don’t change the system from within the Democratic Party.”
“My own feeling is that the Democratic Party is ideologically bankrupt.”


“We have to ask ourselves, ‘Why should we work within the Democratic Party if we don’t agree with anything the Democratic Party says?’”
Bernie Sanders, everybody—the same Bernie Sanders who is running to become the Democratic Party’s candidate for president of the United States.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/bernie-sanders-2016-democrats-121181#ixzz3za8w8kJb

[Rocky the Leprechaun]

34. Show me a time where he caucused with the Republicans on a regular basis...

I'll be waiting.....

[kennetha]

37. that wasn't the question

why are you shifting the question? He caucused with the democrats as a matter of convenience. pure and simple. no commitment to the party whatsoever.

[Rocky the Leprechaun]

38. Read what you just wrote.

You bitched that Bernie was formerly a Independent who joined the Democratic Party that he criticized on.

Why? To attempt to put the Democratic Party back to its FDR roots.

He has been criticizing the Democratic Party because he *SAW* it shifting to the right and was starting to act like Republicans. He saw the opportunity because there was no challenge from the LEFT against Clinton, and took it. People liked what Bernie has said, and are flocking towards him. Remember, he started with just 4% of the support, and now he has nearly tied with Clinton, with an excellent chance to take the lead on the pledged delegates in NH.

So I ask you again, has he ever caucused with the Republicans, as you say that he shouldn't be a member because he criticized the Democrats for shifting to the right?

[longship]

44. Seriously?

Cherry picked quotes do not make an argument. The very fact that Bernie has universally caucused with the Democratic Party says all one has to know.

Playing rhetorical games with his professed alignment in fiercely independant Vermont is a non-starter. Remember Jeffords, also from Vermont? If I remember correctly he was universally lauded here on DU when he switched.

I will not go down that road with you. It just seems too Rovian for my taste.

Bernie has FUCKING ALWAYS caucused with his Democratic Party allies and is campaigning for that party's nomination. That is sufficient.

Any argument to the contrary is just fucking lame spin.

My best to you.


on edit: Should Hillary Clinton obtain the nomination, I will not only vote for her, I will support her.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Why does Debbie Wasserman Schultz want to RUN the Democratic Party, when she allies with Republicans

Like Sheldon Adelson to put sick people in prison for using medical marijuana?

Maybe the party needs a long overdue course correction.

[NurseJackie]

32. I don't know. Because he needs the party?

If so, does he need the party more than the party needs him?

Note to Jury: It's a thought exercise. I've made no statement or taken a position one way or the other.

[pinebox]

53. lol

"Note to Jury: It's a thought exercise. I've made no statement or taken a position one way or the other."
Ok I admit, I laughed at that lol

[morningfog]

35. He joined to win.

[Vinca]

36. So the presidency wouldn't be handed to a Republican. We should all be grateful.

If he'd run as a third party candidate, I guarantee you 100% the next POTUS would be from the GOP and I can't think of any of the current candidates who wouldn't totally fuck up the country.

[bklyncowgirl]

43. I agree, he did not want to run Third Party. Running as a Democrat was the responsible thing to do.

[tarheelsunc]

45. Only if Democrats vote for Bernie instead of the Democratic nominee.

Now we ALL know no one would do that...

[Fawke Em]

49. Meh... very few real voters care. eom

[randr]

54. Because the Democratic Party has fought for many of the things he believes

[Perogie]

55. because it's a two party system

to run as an independent you need a ton of money and an organization in every state. so you have to be in one of the parties to play the game. period.
https://ballotpedia.org/Ballot_access_for_presidential_candidates

your premise that bernie supports aren't about the issues and only anger motivates them is hyperbole. I have seen a ton of posts here and other places that talk about the issues. are some angry? sure they are but they have reason to be. the democratic party is too centrists and even at times slightly to the right on many policies.

any real political change happens when people are angry with what they have had in the past. FDR won because people were angry with what they had. Same can be said with Obama, people were angry about the wars and economy. if neither of those had happened Obama may not have won.

real political change happens in countries when the citizens are angry enough to make the changes.

[MuseRider]

56. The continuous beatings

of those of us with a different set of values and requirements is a stunning thing to see.

Go on with your bad self. None of this makes one tiny bit of difference to anyone except you. YOU might feel good about it but it changes nothing.

[gollygee]

57. Because you only have a chance of winning a presidential election if you run under

One of the current two parties in power. There is a left party, and a right party. He is obviously left, so if he wants to be president he has to run as the current major left party.

[leftupnorth]

58. The two parties have a stranglehold on the political process. That's why.

Would you rather he run as a Republican? Or perhaps an independent 'spoiler'?

[Nanjeanne]

59. So he didn't pull voters from the Dems and ensure a Rep win - plus

since he caucused with Dems for his whole entire political life - perhaps he felt the time was right to bring the Dem Party back to the FDR kind of party it once was.

But of course, your question wasn't really a serious one.

[treestar]

60. Motivated more by anger - true

They take for granted that everyone else hates "the Establishment" as much - which is not likely the case among most voters.

I too think it strange they work up so much hatred for Bernie's opponent when they could find themselves supporting her. They often scoff at the lesser of two evils, but she really would be. As you say a Republican President would be a DISASTER.