King: The idea of an African-American firewall for Hillary Clinton is deeply insulting

[eridani]

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-african-american-firewall-clinton-insulting-article-1.2521962

All of that, though, was before Michelle Alexander, a law professor at Ohio State University, wrote “The New Jim Crow” — which may be the most widely discussed book in the Black Lives Matter movement and in circles of anyone who cares about human rights and mass incarceration.

In it, in painstaking detail, Alexander shows how President Bill Clinton, with the expressed support of Hillary Clinton, who publicly called young black children "super-predators," ushered in a new era of mass incarceration in communities of color. While it had roots in the 1970s and 1980s, Bill Clinton doubled down in the most destructive ways imaginable.

Knowing this, Alexander felt the need to state her thoughts on the Clinton campaign publicly last week. It wasn't pretty.

"If anyone doubts that the mainstream media fails to tell the truth about our political system (and its true winners and losers), the spectacle of large majorities of black folks supporting Hillary Clinton in the primary races ought to be proof enough. I can't believe Hillary would be coasting into the primaries with her current margin of black support if most people knew how much damage the Clintons have done — the millions of families that were destroyed the last time they were in the White House thanks to their boastful embrace of the mass incarceration machine and their total capitulation to the right-wing narrative on race, crime, welfare and taxes. There's so much more to say on this topic and it's a shame that more people aren't saying it. I think it's time we have that conversation."

[kath]

1. Wow, powerful stuff in that piece! How to get the word out in time?

[politicaljunkie41910]

18. Trying to divide the black population to pay for your FREE stuff. Shame on you.

Black people accepted the fact a long time ago that there is going to be no reparations, no FREE STUFF, coming down the pipeline. The fact that you have a black person peddling books to try and convince other blacks that they have no power in determining their outcome in life is just ridiculous. This just proves that blacks can be just as guilty of race baiting as non-blacks.

[Fumesucker]

22. Which candidate are Hillary's "super-predators" supporting?

Blonde haired, blue eyed ultra privileged white woman talking about first we must bring black kids to heel.

[notadmblnd]

84. You should post that on Facebook

nt

[pangaia]

92. Yes. We must bring THEM to heel.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

23. I believe you dropped this....

[TheBlackAdder]

32. Her divisive posture on Obama, MLK, Jessie Jackson, Rev. Wright, and others weren't enough?

.



Things really get going after the 7 min. mark...


Dissing MLK, Jessie Jackson, Rev. Wright, favoring McCain over Obama, etc., and her allusion to assassination.

She partially atoned for her actions, but KXL, Big Money, Big Oil, etc. gives me reservations.

I will vote Democratic, no matter who the nominee is, but I stand uncommitted right now.


Who is she really, inside? I don't think anyone of us knows!


.

[serbbral]

63. @ TheBlackAdder

Last edited Mon Feb 8, 2016, 04:30 PM - Edit history (1)

You have essentially confirmed exactly how I am feeling at the moment. At this time, I am not 100% certain of whom I am going to vote for, although I am leaning more toward Bernie. Hillary left a BAD taste in my mouth after the 2008 campaign. I lost some respect for her and Bill after that.

[TheBlackAdder]

66. I'm neutral, but being a poli-sci continuing ed student, I'm seeing things that are affecting that!

.


I've leaned Clinton for years, engaged in Women and Politics education, and during research through the hundred peer reviewed sites my university is connected to, I have seen more than I can stand to stay willfully blind. I have stayed as a neutral for a long time, refusing to lean Sanders, but I am starting to become disillusioned with the scores of highly-damaging things that I have come across and I know the GOP are in ownership of. As I have posed on other threads, I will put out the common YouTube Keith Olbermann link from time to time to snap people out of this myth that HRC is a nice person. But, I will not put out any other information that, in any way, could be used as opposition research for others, including those who I do not know from chats or emails. Having said that, I am open for information to convince me. I will address issues of injustice when I see them, such as today, when I shut down an SBS guy trying to defend the term 'cackling' for HRC's laugh. and other gender issues.


The reason why the millennials are leaning with Sanders is that they do not subscribe to an outdated definitions of feminism. They side more with the Bell Hooks definition, "Feminism is a movement to end sexism, sexist exploitation and oppression." To be a feminist no longer means to side with a woman, but someone seen as promoting feminist causes.


That in itself is revealing! Younger people are objectively assessing who will be best for them, since they seem more accepting and more intollerant to social injustices and biases.


.

[pangaia]

96. This might be a simple. naive suggestion,

but have you read "Outsider In The (White) House?

I have always been a Sanders supporter in this race, but I learned a great deal about his past and about him and what a good, decent human being he is reading it.

[Nedsdag]

80. Indeed!

I never forgave those two for the 2008 campaign making comments about "hard working white people," Bill telling Ted Kennedy that "Obama would've been getting them coffee" in the past, and Hillary's comment about "being ready in case something happens" to Obama as if he was going to be assassinated.

Sorry, I can forgive, but I CANNOT forget!

[demosocialist]

128. k&r

[johnlucas]

121. I miss Olbermann. Thank goodness Bernie saved us from being stuck with Hillary

Keith Olbermann was one highlight of mainstream media back then.
He's probably one of the reasons why I didn't cut cable sooner than I did.
It was really fun watching him make those passionate editorials.
And he called out Hillary so right in this video.

I voted for Bill Clinton as my first vote in 1996.
But thank goodness for the internet so I am able to check the backstory a little more completely.
I don't have a very good view of the Clintons anymore thanks to that & thanks to folks like Olbermann highlighting those truths.

In order to keep the coalition together against the Republicans I was willing to vote for Hillary knowing that she wasn't worth a damn.
It was about strengthening a coalition that can make up for the nonsense she would do in office.
But luckily people like Bernie Sanders stepped up & had the strength to challenge the Clinton Machine just like Obama did in 2008.

And doggone if history ain't repeating itself.
She hasn't learned a doggone thing. Not one thing.
She wants to be the First Female President so bad & if she had any integrity, nobody would challenge her on this goal.
But BECAUSE she's not sincere, BECAUSE she plays dirty, we had calls for Elizabeth Warren to take up that First Female President role.
When Warren declined & Bernie stepped up, we didn't have to stick with the wicked Clintons anymore.

The First Female President will happen soon & when it does that role will be filled by someone with integrity.
Until then, it's time to Feel the BERN.
Hillary is going back home by the summer & we'll see to that.

John Lucas

[DonCoquixote]

132. YOUR FREE STUFF

or the entitlements that Clinton gladly took away FROM BLACK PEOPLE as well as all of us, but especially them. He was quite capable of demonzing welfare mothers as well as the GOP.

[reformist2]

2. If Hillary can lose half the white vote, I'm sure shes quite capable of losing half the black vote!

[artislife]

38. Well...there is that!

I would be happy if she lost a quarter of the actual votes from my community. The Latinos. We are the worst at actually voting. We don't show up like we should.

[reformist2]

46. Just invite her to your community. Eventually she alienates everyone who isn't exactly like her.

[Live and Learn]

3. So true. nt

[thereismore]

4. Oops. Black voters taken for granted? They are not stupid.

Clintons had taken them for granted for far too long.

[Autumn]

5. Excellent article.

Thanks for posting it.

[mikehiggins]

6. Oh, c'mon. This author is obviously a shill for Battling Bernie.

Next they'll be claiming POC can actually think for themselves and come up with ideas that the MSM won't approve of. We ALL know THAT can't be true. Why, Chris Matthews mentions that "firewall" at least four times every minute he's on the air.

Oh, wait. I'm sorry. I was being sarcastic wasn't I? Never mind...

[hopemountain]

13. as a woman of color, i don't

understand your sarcasm. perhaps, too sensitive about sarcasm when msm and other bigoted insults are a de rigueuer.

[mikehiggins]

19. Its late and maybe I'm not as clever as I think I am

By MSM I mean Main Stream Media, as in pundits and pollsters and MSNBC and Fox and, and, and...

My point is that these sources quote each other, like the Establishment voices in the run-up to both wars against Iraq, to establish the idea that there is a monolithic, flawless, immutable firewall in place among POC that would ensure all POC voters will hand over their votes to Hillary.

I don't believe it. If they said all Hibernian-Americans were united in support of Hillary I wouldn't believe that either. Each person will vote for whoever he or she chooses. To lazily suggest that the fact that a person who lives in South Carolina and is a POC he or she can somehow automatically be assumed to be a Hillary supporter is insulting. To do so for blatantly and obvious political reasons is also insulting, at least to my intelligence.

[hopemountain]

27. thanks for replying

i am also tired. have a good night

[serbbral]

64. @Mikehiggins

First, I would like to say that I agree on the point that it is insulting to just assume that the POC in SC automatically will go for Hillary. However, as one who lives in SC, I am afraid that unfortunately, they might have a point. I cannot speak for the whole state of SC, but many in my area of SC seem to be pulling for Clinton. Unfortunately.

[slipslidingaway]

7. knr nt

[m-lekktor]

8. That last paragraph that quotes the author, uh oh.

IF a DU ever said that the post would be hidden in NO TIME and the DUer would be called all sorts of names!

[Hydra]

9. I've often wondered if the support Team Hill is claiming is there

Really isn't. Considering the twice dropped ball with BLM, there may be more bluster than confidence going on.

[eridani]

10. Support and name recognition are two very different things n/t

[passiveporcupine]

11. OK, this was new for me and I'm not happy about it.

Yes, we are choosing a Democratic Party nominee, but we are also choosing a potential President.

And, yes, mindset matters.

So, let’s further unpack Hillary’s mindset.

She suggests that rather than trying to understand how poverty and social exclusion may have led children to make certain choices, it is more important to first “bring them to heel.”

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/1/8/1467336/-Hillary-Clinton-Gangs-of-kids-are-super-predators-with-no-conscience-no-empathy

Jeesus on a cracker.

Note how Bernie Sanders discussed crime and punishment five years before Hillary called kids “super predators.”

[Hydra]

12. Of course, authority first

And then, maybe...if we feel like it, we can talk about social and economic justice. But only talk about it.

You know, cuz if everyone really had an equal chance...that would threaten the 1%. Can't have that. Besides, fixing problems without violence is WEAK.

[passiveporcupine]

15. And I've been jumped on for calling her an authoritarian.

[Hydra]

16. I've been jumped on for being against torture here

If you aren't annoying a particular subset of DU, you're doing it wrong

[passiveporcupine]

17. Hey, I willingly wear that proud mantle too!

Down with torture!

[senz]

20. Whoa. Thanks, pp.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

24. That's the mindset that gave us the term "Urban Pacification".....

Otherwise known as beating the entire neighborhood into submission.

[m-lekktor]

25. That is new to me as well and I thought I had heard it all coming from her. nt

[oasis]

82. Why won't Hillary release her transcripts?

Because of the out of context "spin" by her detractors. This "super predator" nonsense is a prime example.

[Jefferson23]

95. At least she is honest about it in that clip..good to know. n/t

[polly7]

98. Addressing the causes though takes empathy and might not be profitable in the short term.

He's always gotten it, and good for him for never backing down.

[johnlucas]

124. WOW!!! Hillary is Done! This is the Age of the Internet! Can't hide behind lies anymore

All you gotta do is post these videos to people's social media accounts.
Twitter, Facebook, YouTube, Tumblr, whatever.
It speaks for itself!!

Get this EVERYWHERE before we get to South Carolina.
Hillary ain't got no firewall.
But Hillary is DAMN sure about to Feel the BERN.

Bernie Sanders is the REAL G.D. DEAL!!
John Lucas

[passiveporcupine]

125. I don't do social media, but feel free to use it!

[johnlucas]

126. Then email it. Make homemade CDs. Play it on your phone for somebody. We gotta spread this message!

Once this filters out to South Carolina, Hillary's gonna know how tall that firewall is.
She'll have to measure it with a magnifying glass.

It turns out that Hillary's Obama smears in 2008 weren't a one-off after all.
Well we shoulda knew that when Sister Souljah got dissed back in the 90s.

John Lucas

[Uncle Joe]

14. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, eridani.

[senz]

21. K&R

Thanks, eridani.

[zentrum]

26. Michelle Alexander

Last edited Mon Feb 8, 2016, 02:19 PM - Edit history (1)

..is a national treasure.

Her book "The New Jim Crow" should be required reading.

The Clinton's Welfare Reform plan was also devastating to Black Families. It hurt all poor families—especial single mothers--but Black Families above all who were singled out by the program's structure.

I share Alexander's bafflement.

[eridani]

28. Hearing her speak on tour when this book came out was a major highlight for me that year

She is incredible in person as well as on paper.

[zentrum]

62. The depth...

…and breadth of racism in our history is horrifying.

Her book is both eye opening and yet absolutely confirming of what one sees and feels all around us daily.

I'd like to hear what she has to say about Bernie's economics and the BLM movement.

I've been "yelled" at here on DU for not saying that racism trumps economics. I can't quite get how it's either-or. Seems to me that though racism is more insidious, it would be so empowering to have more immediate economic parity—so by addressing one, you change the other.

[m-lekktor]

33. I have it on my kindle but haven't read it yet! nt

[billhicks76]

29. Exactly What I Thought

I saw first hand these oppressive policies. I view the Clintons as collaborators with the Right Wing. They are the Vichy wing of OUR party.

[PonyUp]

30. Can't wait to see how this one will be explained away by her supporters.

I'm sure they're brainstorming on some other site.

[in_cog_ni_to]

94. HillaryClintonSupporters.com?

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[Art_from_Ark]

159. Either there, or at

jackassradicals.com

Or maybe both places.

[SammyWinstonJack]

137. well one in this thread claimed that "super predators" was taken out of context. So there is that.

[Dems to Win]

31. Major crack in the 'firewall'

The day before, his campaign scheduled a press conference to tout the endorsement of former NAACP president Ben Jealous. Though the campaign canceled the event because of heavy snow, Jealous told reporters on a conference call that Sanders "has the courage to confront the institutionalized bias that stains our nation." He was quickly dispatched to South Carolina for campaign events on Saturday with Erica Garner, whose father died in 2014 after a white New York police officer put the black man in a choke hold.

Sanders backers believe that as African-Americans learn more about the Vermont senator, they will warm to his liberal message. Clinton is one of the best known political figures in the world and has strong backing among Latinos and black voters.

"Before a few weeks ago, I never gave Bernie Sanders the time of day," said state Rep. Justin Bamberg, who recently switched his backing from Clinton. "But if you look at Sanders he has been solid as concrete with regards to his passion for racial, social and economic justice."

http://www.sltrib.com/home/3510760-155/story.html

[Bread and Circus]

34. It is sad :(

[bravenak]

35. Only if you are voting for Sanders.

Many in the South are proud to stand with Hillary. She knows she needs them, they know she needs them, she addresses their concerns. Hillary is well known there and often will visit and hold events. She also is very good about hiring Blacks and helping out with issues for black women and children. She has built a 'relationship' with black people.

[jeff47]

36. If she addresses their concerns, why can't she come out with a social justice platform

that BLM likes?

[bravenak]

37. If he does why is he polling so poorly?

Perhaps she has a relationship with us.

[jeff47]

39. So why can't she use that relationship to create a social justice platform that passess muster? (nt)

[hack89]

40. Is BLM the final arbiter of all things black?

isn't the goal to develop a platform that passes muster with the most people? If BLM is unhappy with Clinton but the vast majority of AA are not, what's the problem?

[jeff47]

44. No, but wouldn't someone with such a strong relationship be able to satisfy them? (nt)

[hack89]

49. Don't know. They appear to be a very diverse and non-centralized group

it is not clear to me that they have a concise agenda or speak with a single voice. If you meet the needs of the majority of AA then you have to assume that BLM will get most of what they want. Which is how the real world works.

[jeff47]

51. Yet the candidate without that relationship has produced a plan they approve of

(They're not 100% in love with it, but consider it good)

If you meet the needs of the majority of AA

Met how? What has she actually put into law or otherwise driven into being?

[hack89]

55. Why don't you ask the AA community?

I have no idea why they like Hillary and not Bernie by significant percentages. That is the political reality Bernie faces. No point beating up on me - I can provide no insight into the minds of AA voters.

[jeff47]

60. It's a political discussion board.

I'm asking here because some of the "AA community" are here, and it's a political discussion board where people commonly talk politics.

Should I go run over to lots of random black people and interrigate them instead? "Hey, I see you are buying bread in the supermarket. What has Hillary Clinton put into law or otherwise driven into being that causes you to support her?"

Perhaps I should listen to my African-American co-worker who actually likes Trump. Clearly he can answer for all.

[hack89]

61. Whatever. Bernie clearly has a problem he needs to fix

it will be interesting to see if he has time.

[serbbral]

67. @ hack89

You bring up a good point. Although, I like Bernie's ideology better, this is exactly the reason why I have not embraced him 100% as of yet. I have not seen him make an attempt to go into the communities of POC. He does need to work on that.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

114. Really?

Are you that uninformed? Anyone who casually follows Bernie's campaign understands that reaching out in POC communities is central to Bernie's primary strategy.

[serbbral]

138. The question is are YOU that uninformed?............

It does not take a rocket scientist to SEE who comes to Bernie's rallies. I am sorry, but one or two faces won't do it. We see who comes to Hillary's. SAYING that you are trying or will be trying to work with POC communities is one thing, but DOING it is another. Unfortunately, many POCs have a history of looking up to the Clintons. Bernie needs to work harder on that. He does not want to make the same mistake that Mitt Romney did and that is UNDERESTIMATING POC voting.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

140. I quote you:

I have not seen him make an attempt to go into the communities of POC.

Just research Killer Mike and you will get one example of Bernie's many attempts to go to the people and talk and listen. So I'm saying he does make a huge effort to reach out to AA, Latino and native people and he has made and will continue to make progress. I believe he has the better platform, whether it is economic progress, social justice or a good foreign policy. So I think he will continue to make progress. Does he have enough time to close the gap? I hope so, for everyone's sake.

BTW, welcome to DU!

[serbbral]

161. LOL!!!!!!!

Actually, I have been a member of DU for a NUMBER of years now, EIGHT to be exact. I just do not post often and this is the first time in awhile that I have, but thanks for the welcome. As for reaching out to the POC communities, I just do not see it much. However, I will agree that as time goes on maybe more POCs will get to know him.

[cheapdate]

116. There is lingering goodwill for Bill Clinton

and by extension, for Hillary Clinton. Why? Comedian Dave Chappelle tried to explain it once, which was to say that you can't explain it. Bill Clinton was the poor son of a single mother. He brimmed with charm. He came to office after the nightmare of Ronald Reagan, and the country-club president HW Bush. He was a man of the people, a man with heart. Some people just remember him fondly. Lots of people. Facts be damned.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

115. For the record, Bernie has all kinds of community relationships

with POC. He has been gaining ground for months and months. Hillary has known for eight years and has acted accordingly. It's merely a question of whether he has enough time and momentum to catch her. Right now it's "situation fluid."

[jeff47]

117. I'm aware. My goal was to get more than platitudes from those other posters

so that I could have some understanding of what they're talking about.

[Admiral Loinpresser]

120. I understand.

I just didn't like the inaccurate meme hanging out there, because it is so far from the truth. Thanks for fighting for the best candidate!

[MellowDem]

72. Hillary Clinton definitely has a relationship...

with us white people, I can tell you that. She has done a tremendous job at keeping white privilege in place and keeping the status quo friendly to whites. I trust her to continue the grand tradition, nothing she has said convinces me otherwise, and everything she has done even more so.

I especially note how her relationship with us is much more subtle than the Republicans'.

[bravenak]

73. Sounds like the other candidate!

She at LEAST hires us, though.

[MellowDem]

83. Bernie Sanders?

We don't really know him that well, and think of him as a dirty redistributionist, most of us will be voting Republican, they give full throated endorsements of white privilege. Plus, he's Jewish, and not very religious, not very relatable to a lot of us, ya know? Not much of a relationship there. His policies are crazy, universal healthcare? Free college for all? You can't have a relationship with us pushing that commie crap.

Bernie Sanders doesn't matter though, if he got elected (he won't) his kooky schemes would be shut down by not only Republicans, but plenty of Democrats. The status quo will march on regardless, in favor of us. We don't take Bernie seriously as a threat.

We know that with a Clinton presidency, the same racial gaps will likely remain, just as they have during Obama's presidency, and we can then point to both Clinton and Obama as proof that it's not white privilege that is an issue here, guys.

You make a good point with Clinton, the optics are great for white privilege, she can hire minorities and be a woman, all while defending white privilege, makes it pretty easy for us. Really, it is the least she could do.

[bravenak]

86. Least she can do, really.

See I have no faith in any politician. Religion? Meh. I don't have any of that.
The racial gaps will remain regardless who we elect this time and I guess the constant 'he's best for you' 'he will end mass incarceration!' 'What about welfare reform?' 'Hillary is racist (so what, who's not? At least she shows up, we don't expect shit)' nonsense is annoying.
We are always promised the Sun, Moon, and Stars to get our vote ahd they are fulla shit everytime. At least she is actually being honest. Might get a few things through signing statements cause that's all the fuck we can do without a senate majority and a house majority.

We know that free college will go to the kids in good schools cause aint no room for everybody. Who gets in? Not US! Look at the defacto Jim Crow! We aint getting in. The entire system is built on white supremacy and until THAT is the FOCUS? Our black selves aint getting no where near that fight. We know it's not meant for us and we will be cut out by some magic just like the new deal.

[MellowDem]

97. If you think...

that the entire system has to be examined critically and understood before there can be any change, then I'm right there with you, and just as cynical. I just think Sanders does the most to change the focus. I don't think he's a savior, I do think he is the one candidate being most honest about pointing out the flaws in our democracy.

I don't think white supremacy is the basis for the entire system, if it was, then it would be easier to tear down as an idea. The system is built on a much more robust and hard to grapple with idea, older than the idea of race, and it's in countries with almost no white people as well, it's a global issue.

It's the idea that we have free will and as such, our problems are our own. That's the very basic idea, and it has been buttressed with all sorts of new inventions, especially ideas of free market capitalism here in the US. It's that word "free" again, used as a battering ram against equality of opportunity. It's used to justify all sorts of inequality, past and present.

Because of our freedom, we deserve what we get, when we break a law, it was our choice and we deserve to be punished, etc. etc. Why is universal healthcare bad? It takes away my choices. My freedom. It's this illusion of freedom and of choice that is so ingrained. Black people are disproportionally poor? It's their choice, it's their fault.

Not everyone believes this, there are people who, at least for some aspects of life, are determinists, that is, thinking that no one can truly "choose" anything, and therefore doesn't "deserve" anything, but rather that everyone is where they are because of events outside of their control, and if we want to make our world better, we have to keep this in mind.

With free will, to make the world better, it's all about holding people accountable for their free will, for their choices. Their responsibility. But it isn't necessary to hold individuals accountable for their "choices" to make the world better, and it's always wrong anyways, all we do is hold people accountable for circumstances beyond their control, and all that does is allow those circumstances to dictate how our societies are ordered, and that leads to a lot of inequality and injustice. It makes it easy to rationalize any and every inequality, and gives birth to quite a lot of bigotry and prejudice. In fact, it requires the invention of things like racism to keep the illusion going.

For determinists, it's about examining what set of circumstances leads to negative outcomes, and then trying to change the source of those circumstances so that it stops. It's no big deal for a determinist to have universal healthcare, he doesn't fret over whether some "moocher" is taking away money he "deserves" because of his morally superior choices.

Lots of people pick and choose when they believe free will applies as opposed to determinism, and some of it is quite self-serving indeed (the conservative woman who votes against abortion rights and then gets one herself, etc.).

TLDR: I think certain concepts of free will seem to be the basis of a system that supports inequality, it's an attractive idea accepted across lots of cultures that is hard to break down because it bills itself as fair by pretending individuals are accountable for circumstances beyond their control. Many people feel like they can make choices, and therefore this system makes sense, and is easily exploitable for making an unjust system. I think Sanderrs points that out the most.

[bravenak]

100. Yes. Exactly.

But look at the people we are dealing with? Uh uh. We are selfish and stupid and lazy as a species. Prideful. Vain and vainglorious. Judgemental. Violent.
Now, I disagree that the system is not built on white supremacy. It is the why. The what bears tgat out. All groups of non white were oppressed systematically, no matter if they were here first or forced here or lured here to build the railroad, laws were made to uplift whiteness and subject nonwhiteness. It is a system. Until that system is questioned and tirn down there is no chance of redemption no matter what programs we put in place.

He addresees it. But to me his attack on white supremacy sounds force and hollow. He does not get it. He can't. Gotta be at least slightly racist or a minority to understand the depths of racism. It is not a conservative thing. It's a human thing. In order to speak on it with power and authority one must study it DAILY. It has to be a thing that you think about constantly.

I am comfortable in any group honestly. I say what I want regardless. But do I look to see who looks like me? Damn straight I do. Just in case. I find sonebody and park my ass right next to them just in case. That fear is something palpable. They might go buck wild and who will be the victim? Me. Find somebody that looks like me. Just in case. Until the psychology of the trauma is no longer dismissed or disregarded, or told that free college or mo money will fix it, it is what it is.

Next candidate that wants to move us left better not wait till the last minute to think about us.

[rhett o rick]

103. On what issues does she resonate with you over Sanders? You do realize that she supports

Prisons For Profits that are getting rich from incarcerating mostly PoC. You do realize that she helped dismantle the welfare system and was strongly for harsh drug penalities. I repeat. On which issues does she resonate with the AA community?

On edit I wanted to add that she is a strong member of the wealthy 1% that has caused this country to see 16 million of our children living in poverty and she will never ask Goldman-Sachs to help.

[bravenak]

104. He voted Yes on mass incarceration

[rhett o rick]

105. Your response says a lot. You did not say anything about what issues that you

think that H. Clinton resonates with the AA community. The Prisons For Profits are supporting her over him. She strongly supported and still supports tough laws and sentencing for crimes that single out minorities.

And her support of Wall Street should be obvious that she chooses them over the 99%. She is a member of the corrupt culture of Big Money running government.

I hope you don't believe that Goldman-Sachs cares about PoC.

[bravenak]

106. They care equally

She is more prone to hiring us

[rhett o rick]

109. Good grief and she is more prone to support laws that will encarcerate AA.

She has made a fortune from money from those that profit from the misery of minorities. So she hires a few minorities. Please look at the big picture.

[bravenak]

110. I would look at the big picture but the condescending lectures have blinded me.

[bvar22]

122. So your closed mindedness and knowledge deficit are somebody else's fault.

Got it.

[bravenak]

123. Why would you say that to me? A knowledge deficit?

That is basically calling me stupid which we both better know damn well aint true. The rudeness? Nasty comments? Thats my issue too. Cool tho. Helps Hillary.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

133. How did he lecture you? He just asked a question ...

...which you still failed to answer.

[bravenak]

134. I done got a thousand lectures this primary.

Many today. You can find them.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

135. Could it be that people are trying to provide political information on a political message board?

Seems logical.

[bravenak]

136. Naw. Why would that be it? Sounds crazy to me.

[cali]

42. And it was just a few months ago that you said you would NEVER forgive Hillary

for running a dog whistle racist campaign against Obama.

Lol.

[kath]

54. And then there are the PMs where she said she was just pretending to like Hillary.

[bravenak]

57. The BLM stuff was worse.

Devil I know.

[cali]

101. BeahahahAhaha. Hillary is the one that threatened BLM activists

with only talking to white people about institutional racism. Hilly is the one who said all lives matter to BLM activists.

What did Bernie do?

[bravenak]

102. Bernie did... NOTHING.

Exactly my point.

[eridani]

145. Given that it wan't his event, it wasn't any of his business to do anything

Unless you confuse bullying with leadership.

[bravenak]

146. No. I dont

He should fight just as hard for us as for you. No matter the even or whose it was. Fighters fight.

[eridani]

148. Not at an event beloning to a coalition of organizations.

The event was sixth that had been put on since the Catfood Commission in 2010 celebrating the anniversaries of Social Security and Medicare.The representatives of of Social Security Works present on the stage made the decision to hand over the mic to BLM and were not able to get it back. Given that he had another event in 15 minutes, he did the only reasonable thing. Apparently "leadership" means ignoring all your other commitments.

He is not the candidate funded by banksters and private prisons.

[bravenak]

149. Ok he can only fight when the time is right

[eridani]

151. "Fighting" = pre-empting and running roughshod over an independent organization's--

--event? This is fighting only in the Donald Trump meaning of the word.

I guess you loved the Sistah Souljah putdown, NAFTA, bank deregulation, welfare deform and celebrating the execution of Ricky Ray Rector.

[bravenak]

154. .

[DemocraticSocialist8]

43. What has she done to address issues in the Black community

That goes beyond lip service? As a Black person I can't find a single thing Hillary has actually done for Black people.

[bravenak]

71. She hires.

She promotes. She donates to campaigns to give black people a voice and some representation in govt. Campaigns for us. Kamala Harris? Hillary worked her ass off for her. Her staff. Look! Who do you see?
People can sell woof tickets all day about what they gon do. What do they do besides talk? She hires. I'll take a job over a promise of revolution all day.

[Arazi]

74. She also cluster bombs them

sends them to be maimed and die in wars to enrich her MIC and Wall St pals,

she's in bed with Big Prison lobbyists who mass incarcerate POC here in the US,

she grossly insults black youth calling them super predators who need to be brought to heel,

she wants to slow walk getting urgently needed medical insurance/care,

She voted for the heinous No Child Left Behind bill (Sanders one of the few against) which had greatly harmed POC neighborhoods

So HRC has black staff outweighs the rest?

[bravenak]

75. None of that has anything to do with my subject.

Btw, that mass incarceration thing you bring up? Bernie voted YES.

[Arazi]

77. Still deflecting and refusing to answer I see

[bravenak]

78. And still here.

Bernie lacks a connection to our community and his helpers are not helping him. They are ruining it for him and yes I love them for it in my own way.

[Arazi]

81. I'm disabled for a while so I've got oodles of time

this takes my mind off the pain while the cranky factor stays pretty high. A "good" mix to be here lots and lots

I've never denied Sanders has a problem in the black community. There's work to be done

That said, I see you've offered up another deflection. On reddit they call this technique something ... I forget. I love the psychology of it since it really smells like desperation.

[bravenak]

87. Sorry you're in pain.

Sucks. If you needs to be cranky at somebody I'll be here for you. I have time too since I was posting to you in class. Still particpated in discussion! Boom!

Now I am all ready to dedicate myself to your analyzation today.

Now. Desperation. Hmmm. I actually was for Bernie first. Hated Hillary and posted similar things to what you posted. The deflection? Because I am not in love with her or any other politicians except OBAMA. I love him. The others? Meh.

I decided to like Hillary. I'm good at liking people. I try hard at it.

Why? His supporters. I just can't. No. Cannot join. Left. No more. Will not join his group EVER AGAIN.

Because I watched the entire thing start to finish and it would be wrong to even consider it. Had omalley done well I'd be on his team right now. They way people acted after Netroots and Seattle? It is my duty to help Hillary now. I swore an oath against that madness I witnessed.

[Arazi]

89. Yes I knew it was mean Bernie supporters

I read that elsewhere.

Then it comes down to your hatred for Internet posters/Bernie supporters is so high, it outweighs the issues. I'm not trying to put words in your mouth so please correct me if I've read that wrong. I'm just mystified at what you say are your primary issues (POC and the AA community) and how you reconcile that with Clinton's positions.

Anyway, I will say I'm not going to give up on presenting facts as I see them during these discussions.





And the pain is much more manageable now than when I first injured myself so there's that. Forward with multitasking (I'm paying bills and getting tax stuff in order - alas)

[bravenak]

91. I just like rubbing it in that black votes matter.

[Arazi]

99. Well rub away. They do matter and it bears repeating eom

[bravenak]

156. Or in 1992 When bernie voted yes on the crime bill?

[bravenak]

160. Oooooh!

[rhett o rick]

107. She puts up a good front. But she supports the rich and the rich are the ones that have created

the poverty. She answers to Wall Street and may give the 99% some cake but that's it. Don't fall for the lies.

[bravenak]

108. I guess he should have thought of optics.

I'd trust her to hire me before him.
Honestly I know conservative who always try to promote diversity on staff. And also try to sway people towards conservatism, but not too pushy. It should be no issue for him.

[rhett o rick]

111. Do you understand that we are involved in a class war and Hillary Clinton and her $50,000,000

is a member of the top 0.1%. She isn't on our side in this class war. Do you really think a member of the American Aristocracy will look favorably on the lower classes? She will never ask her rich friends to help.

[bravenak]

112. I understand we are involved in a fight against white supremacist beliefs and the system

Class war? Yawn. That's for people like YOU to be all OCCUPYWALLSTREETING. Those of us who are the ACTUAL oppressed do not have time for your little war.
Start talking affirmative action and I'll be all fucking ears.

[sahel]

127. If you were looking to get hired by the Sanders campaign

I'd say you've probably gone about it the wrong way.

Good luck on getting hired by the Clinton campaign though. I guess the phone must be ringing off the hook, right?

[Arazi]

45. Hillary said black youth need to be "brought to heel"

how do you feel about that?

[bravenak]

47. I accept her apology.

Glad she apologized.

[Arazi]

50. Can you provide evidence of that apology?

[bravenak]

52. You can find it. It's easy!

Her and bill did interviews and it's just as easy for you to google as it is for me. I have things I'm doing right now.

[Arazi]

53. Nope. Didn't come up on google. You'll need to provide that please

you made the assertion she apologized. Back it up

[bravenak]

56. No thanks!

Told you I'm doing stuff. I am not a link hunter.

[Arazi]

58. She never apologized and you're making it up that she did

"black youth need to be brought to heel..."

She owns those words you can so easily dismiss (even as you loudly proclaim your concern for the POC in America)

[bravenak]

59. Whatevs.

[thesquanderer]

76. On another thread, we were discussing the crime bill...

...and I posted what Sanders said about it at the time. I think the Sanders clip in post #11 in this thread is notable as well, showing what he was saying even years earlier than that. I know you "doubt his interest in {your} issues" which obviously is your prerogative, but doesn't he at least get a point for saying the right things while Hillary was saying things she'd have to apologize for, and even for years before that? (I'm taking you at your word that she did apologize, I couldn't find the link either.)

[bravenak]

79. Fiiiiiiiine! God! Sheesh!

He was right in his speech. Happy? He gets credit for prescience.
I actually secretly still like him.
I am more opposed to his movement than him. But him too cause he is stuck on one issue and it's NOT MY ISSUE.

[Logical]

143. King seems to know more about this than you do. Nt

[bravenak]

144. Yeah right

I remember the thrashing Of Shaun King this summer too. I will NEVER join that crap.

He is optimistic where I am not

[Gothmog]

41. There are valid reasons why many African American and other voters do not support Sanders

Demographics are important in that this explains one of the big divides between Sanders supporters and Clinton supporters. There is a vast difference in how Sanders supporters and Sanders view President Obama and how other Democrats view President Obama. I admit that I am impressed with the amount accomplished by President Obama in face of the stiff GOP opposition to every one of his proposals and I personally believe that President Obama has been a great President. It seems that this view colors who I am supporting in the primary http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-sanders-obama_us_56aa378de4b05e4e3703753a?utm_hp_ref=politics

But lurking behind this argument about the future is a dispute that's really about the past. It’s a debate over what Obama accomplished in office -- in particular, how significant those accomplishments really are. And it's been simmering on the left for most of the last seven years.

On one side of this divide are activists and intellectuals who are ambivalent, disappointed or flat-out frustrated with what Obama has gotten done. They acknowledge what they consider modest achievements -- like helping some of the uninsured and preventing the Great Recession from becoming another Great Depression. But they are convinced that the president could have accomplished much more if only he’d fought harder for his agenda and been less quick to compromise.

They dwell on the opportunities missed, like the lack of a public option in health care reform or the failure to break up the big banks. They want those things now -- and more. In Sanders, they are hearing a candidate who thinks the same way.

On the other side are partisans and thinkers who consider Obama's achievements substantial, even historic. They acknowledge that his victories were partial and his legislation flawed. This group recognizes that there are still millions of people struggling to find good jobs or pay their medical bills, and that the planet is still on a path to catastrophically high temperatures. But they see in the last seven years major advances in the liberal crusade to bolster economic security for the poor and middle class. They think the progress on climate change is real, and likely to beget more in the future.

It seems that many of the Sanders supporters hold a different view of President Obama which is also a leading reason why Sanders is not exciting African American voters. Again, it may be difficult for Sanders to appeal to African American voters when one of the premises of his campaign is that Sanders does not think that President Obama is a progressive or a good POTUS.

Again, I am not ashamed to admit that I like President Obama and think that he has accomplished a great deal which is why I do not mind Hillary Clinton promising to continue President Obama's legacy. There are valid reasons why many non-African American democrats (myself included) and many African American Democrats are not supporting Sanders.

I understand why Sanders supporters dislike talking about demographics but the fact remain that Sanders supporters tend to no like President Obama and that dislike affects the amount of support that Sanders is getting from certain demographic groups.

[bravenak]

48. We notice he has issues with Obama and does not seems pleased with his presidency

That is an issue.

[Gothmog]

69. With Prof. West as a surrogate, it is not hard to miss

I am not African American but I do respect and admire President Obama. I think that President Obama has accomplished a great deal in the face of strong opposition. I do not think that we should throw President Obama's legacy away and so I am supporting Hillary Clinton.

[bravenak]

70. West is the worst surrogate for him to make inroads with us

I have no CLUE who told him to do that. I blame his campaign manager. Or that Divine guy who never wins in the USA.

[Gothmog]

129. I agree

Prof. West is a horrible surrogate

[Utopian Leftist]

65. President Obama is NOT a progressive! So why on Earth should Bernie be expected to call him one?

Obama himself said on 60 Minutes recently, "I am a moderate Republican." It was not long ago he said so, and I witnessed it with my own eyes. But then, unlike Hillary, Obama did not run as a progressive: he ran as a Centrist. Hillary is running as a weathervane, apparently, since she will not choose to admit that she is a moderate, just as Obama and Bill Clinton were.

[Gothmog]

68. Sanders can call President Obama anything he wants to call him

However, do not be surprise when African American voters and other Democrats reject Sanders' message. The fact that Sanders wants to scrap President Obama's legacy and start over is not a message that will appeal to African American and a significant number of Democratic voters. Having Prof. West as a major surrogate does not help this problem.

The article that I posted merely explains why Sanders is not making inroads with African American and many Democratic voters voters. There are vast differences between how Sanders supporters view President Obama and how Clinton supporters view President Obama. I am not African American but I am largely in the Hillary camp because I like and respect President Obama and think that he did a great job. I want to continue on and build of the legacy of President Obama. There are many other Democrats who share my views and Sanders will have a difficult time winning over these voters.

Please remember that the premise of the OP in this thread is that it was somehow racist to expect African American voters to not support Sanders. Race has nothing to do with the resistance of many African American and other Democratic voters to Sanders message. You can reject this analysis and continue attacking President Obama. I hope that Sanders takes Prof. West with him to South Carolina to preach the message that Obama was a bad president and the African American voters should support Sanders' efforts to undo President Obama's legacy. Lets see how effective that messaging is.

[Utopian Leftist]

85. I do not consider Obama a "bad" President, myself.

There are many ways I disagree with many of President Obama's actions, but overall I consider him to be the best President of my lifetime, and I am over 50.

I have much respect for President Obama. And one reason I respect him so much more than I respect Hillary is that he has never pretended to be something that he is not. He has always run on a centrist platform. Bernie, like Obama, runs openly and honestly, standing for what he believes. He just happens to believe more progressively than Obama believes. That doesn't imply that Obama was "wrong" or "bad." He had many things right.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet at some point that Bernie adopts the idea that his single-payer plan could never have passed if there hadn't been Obamacare there first, to pave the way. One unspoken but very real accomplishment of the Affordable Care Act was to get Americans to realize that there is no reason why we should be the only country in the developed world that does not guarantee healthcare as a right.

[Gothmog]

88. The preception is that many Sanders supporters and surrogates do not share your view

Prof. West for example does not attempt to hide his dislike and contempt for President Obama which is not helping Sanders outreach with African American and other democratic voters. I find that I am also in agreement with Barney Franks' assessment of Sanders http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/three-reasons-why-things-will-get-harder-for-bernie-sanders-213591

Nor does President Barack Obama escape. While he does not explicitly attack the president, nowhere in Sanders’ campaign rhetoric is there any positive assessment of his record. His listeners do not hear that the Affordable Care Act was a great advance and must be protected as he and others try to go beyond it. They don’t hear that getting the top tax rate back up to where it was before Bush lowered it meant a real increase in tax fairness.

Many congressional Democrats, myself included, feel deep resentment at this wholly negative portrayal of our efforts. First, it is a prime example of how inattention has helped Sanders until now. Commentators have made a point of noting the lack of congressional support for Cruz, legitimately drawing negative inferences from the fact that his closest colleagues are essentially rejecting him. But little notice has been taken of the fact that Sanders does scarcely better: Cruz has one House supporter as I write; Sanders has two.

Why don’t their colleagues back them? In part, of course, it’s out of fear they’ll be weak in November. In Cruz’s case, this is also reinforced by a more strongly expressed personal dislike than I can remember attaching to any other member of Congress. With Sanders, the deeper problem isn’t personal; it’s the feeling that his approach to the very issue by which he defines himself—how to bring about fundamental progress toward a fairer society—makes it less likely that we will succeed in doing so.

This concern is as strong on the left wing of the congressional party as it is in the center. And it is deeply felt as well by the major advocacy groups that worked alongside us in achieving what progress we have won. No, Planned Parenthood and the Human Rights Campaign are not resisters of change. Neither is John Lewis, or the other Congressional Black Caucus members who are campaigning for Clinton, nor Tom Harkin, the leader in fighting for the rights of those with disabilities, nor Henry Waxman and Sandy Levin, who chaired the committees that wrote the ACA in the House and who have written an article defending their work against Sanders. And while I concede pride of authorship may influence me, when my 2010 opponent was greeted by cheers on the floor of the New York Stock Exchange during our campaign, and major financial operators like Carl Icahn and David Einhorn maxed out to him to punish me for our legislation, I don’t think any of them agreed with Sanders that Wall Street had somehow been regulating us.
Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/02/three-reasons-why-things-will-get-harder-for-bernie-sanders-213591#ixzz3zcSRXbh9

I live in the real world and I have been following these issues closely. I do not see how better results could have been obtained and I doubt that Sanders revolution will either be realized or be sufficient to change things.

Sanders is a good person but I do not believe that the above results are worthless. You are entitled to support the candidate of your choice for any reason you select and I will support the candidate of my choice for many reasons including the fact that I admire President Obama and think that a great deal has been accomplished in the face of strong opposition. I am not willing to throw these results away in the hopes that some revolution will change things in part because Sanders has been making the same speech for years/decades and this revolution has never materialized

[serbbral]

139. @ Gothmog

Gothmog says: I hope that Sanders takes Prof. West with him to South Carolina to preach the message that Obama was a bad president and the African American voters should support Sanders' efforts to undo President Obama's legacy. Lets see how effective that messaging is.

As a South Carolinian, I'd like to see how this goes down too. LOL!

[Enthusiast]

90. Kicked and recommended!

[avaistheone1]

93. Preach it!

[liberal_at_heart]

113. K&R

[Duval]

118. K&R

[Babel_17]

119. That's got to sting

Btw, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaun_King_%28activist%29

[Gothmog]

130. Do you want to predict the results in South Carolina?

[watoos]

131. Someone in Bernie's campaign

needs to mention all of the campaign money that the private prison industry has given to Hillary.
Those privatized prisons need to keep those prisons full so they can give money to politicians.

[eridani]

147. Apparently, black people like privatized prisons

Well, not really-voters of all colors are not usually policy junkies.

[kath]

141. kickety-kick

[kath]

142. Kick. Since HRC only got 52% of the POC vote yesterday

[mgmaggiemg]

150. agree

believe it or not that these policies were destructive not constructive and that BC was more of a deal maker compromising with republicans than holding a tougher line with them...at the same time HRC was working on national health care....and education ....I don't think you can paint them with the same brush at all...in fact I think that they are really different...

[dchill]

152. K&R