The Trump wing of the Sanders campaign is harmful

[Onlooker]

This is the wing that accuses Hillary of "cackling," objects to her underscoring the significance of her being a woman, suggests that blacks and gays don't support Sanders because they're not smart or knowledgeable enough, embraces Republican talking point on Hillary, and so on. When Sanders supporters like me try to stand up to the Trump wing of the Sanders campaign we're rejected. I was thrown out of the Sanders group for defending Hillary. I am afraid Sanders is losing control of his campaign, and my guess is that if he doesn't reign in the idiots, Hillary will regain her footing and win.

The following should be required reading for every Sanders supporter. This is one of the reasons that many older progressives support him. He's a decent human being.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/sanders-condemns-bernie-bros_us_56b75a28e4b08069c7a79b1e#gallery/55dde9fce4b04ae497055015/0

[Yavin4]

1. This is what happens when you pander to people

When you offer things like "free" college education and single payer health care over night, uninformed people hop onto your campaign and regard anyone who disagrees with them as lesser than.

There's not a single policy initiative that Bernie has proposed that will ever come to be. Not with the nation divided politically as it is.

[pinebox]

6. NO WE CAN'T!!!!!

[TheBlackAdder]

44. Those plebeians, keep them stupid. The proletariat should know their place... in the salt mines. nt

[Yavin4]

49. If you think that all we have to do is elect Bernie Sanders and we'll have free college

for everyone and Single payer, then you have swallowed the pandering.

[TheBlackAdder]

50. When one starts from the position of a defeatist, they should not be surprised when defeated. nt

[Yavin4]

51. I'm far from a defeatist. I am a progressive who strongly dislikes naked pandering.

I too want a Single payer health insurance program, but in order to get it and build a political consensus around it, you have to detail explicitly how it will be paid for. See Social Security and Medicare as examples.

I don't agree with free college for all because big academia in this country have been ripping off middle class Americans for years. Delivering a quality education should not cost over $100,000 esp. not for an undergraduate degree. Giving them bundles of cash from the taxpayers is a huge mistake.

[TheBlackAdder]

56. And I am a returning Poli-Sci student. Well versed from the State of Nature onward.

.


I leaned Clinton for years, engaged in Women and Politics education, and during research through the hundred peer reviewed sites my university is connected to, I have seen more than I can stand to stay willfully blind. I have stayed as a neutral for a long time, refusing to lean Sanders, but I am starting to become disillusioned with the scores of highly-damaging things that I have come across and I know the GOP is in ownership of. As I have posed on other threads, I will put out the Keith Olbermann link from time to time to snap people out of this panacea that HRC is a nice person.


But, I will not put out any other information that, in any way, could be used as opposition research for others, including those who I do not know from chats or emails. Having said that, you can go on with your beliefs, while I develop and follow mine. I am open for information to convince me. I will address issues of injustice when I see them, such as today, when I shut down an SBS guy trying to defend the term 'cackling' for HRC's laugh.


You might be conflating Big Academia with county and state schooling. If a millionaire is paying 45% in taxes, instead of their 20-something they are now, sure let them send their kid to state school. They probably won't because they will try to get them into a private ivy institution, even if the kid is stupid and undeserving. Many I talk to have kids that just got out of college, and they use the "I had to pay" justification to keep the old system in place--which is VERY right wing Libertarian.

Right now, my work-funded insurance is paying over $1,000 for uninsured, along with other state taxes and costs when I use hospital services. If these are bundled and eliminated, people won't drive up insurance costs by not having a PCP and preventative care. The more people in an insurance pool, the ore the costs get spread out amongst them. Asking for granularity in a project is something that takes months of peer research to develop. Asking for that from a candidate is kicking the can, in a sense. The motivation to get people into power who will affect change is needed first.

Unfortunately, we've seen since before Teddy Roosevelt's time that these issues do not get resolved because of the institutional construct of government. Large scoping changes do not occur incrementally, such as woman's rights or the civil right's moment, but when there is a factionist rise to demand change. Other than that, complacency sets in, and another four years of lip service passes. People get co-opted again, following a candidate who will not express or fight for the people.


.

[HassleCat]

2. Trump fans are likely to support anyone or anything.

If you take away their daily Trump fix, they're unpredictable. As for the "Bernie Bros" making the strange remarks, I think they come from everywhere on the political spectrum.

[Cali_Democrat]

3. Yup. Some of his supporters are pretty open about it. From the LA times:

----------

If Bernie Sanders loses, his backers may not be there for Hillary Clinton in November

Gio Vanecchia is so enamored of Bernie Sanders that he made a five-hour drive with his wife and infant son from South Jersey on Saturday morning to catch a glimpse of the progressive firebrand.

But what if Sanders loses the Democratic nomination? Asked whether he will be there to vote for the Democrat in November should Sanders falter, the 34-year-old union mechanic reacts as if the question is insane. There is not a chance, he insists, that he would ever support Hillary Clinton.

“She’s establishment,” Vanecchia said. “Most of the guys I work with think she’s a criminal.”

Vanecchia’s second choice for president is Donald Trump.

http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-clinton-sanders-20160206-story.html

[ThePhilosopher04]

15. Count me in as one who will never support Clinton. I don't vote for Republicans.

nm

[AtomicKitten]

18. x 1000000

[basselope]

28. I will probably eat the chicken...

But I know a ton of people who will vote green or not at all if Clinton is the candidate.

[RBInMaine]

39. IDIOTS voting with "anger" instead of BRAINS. If not Bernie then The Trump? That is STUPIDITY.

[HooptieWagon]

53. Bernie gets a lot iof support from Independants,...

...youth, and formerly disillusioned people. The Democratic Party has written them off, even insulted them. Why would they be loyal to a Democratic Establishment candidate? They would be registered Dems if that was the case. They'll turn out to vote for Sanders. Clinton not.

[liberal_at_heart]

4. I am so tired of this crap. There are just as many nasty things said by Hillary supporters.

This is an internet message board. Every website on the internet has trolls. Good luck getting rid of them. All we can do is not be one and put them on ignore.

[jfern]

5. What a joke of a straw man

[silenttigersong]

42. ^^^^^That^^^^^

[Empowerer]

7. I appreciate you

[Lazy Daisy]

8. I think these are better required reading for Bernie supporters

The ‘Bernie Bro’ is a Media Myth. It Needs to Die

http://usuncut.com/politics/bernie-bro-is-a-myth/

The “Bernie Bros” Narrative: a Cheap Campaign Tactic Masquerading as Journalism and Social Activism

https://theintercept.com/2016/01/31/the-bernie-bros-narrative-a-cheap-false-campaign-tactic-masquerading-as-journalism-and-social-activism/

[kath]

14. +100

[cui bono]

33. +1

[MisterP]

59. Sanders supporters' required reading are their medical bills, their parents' bills,

their debt collectors, their rejection letters

[beam me up scottie]

9. You started a thread to complain about getting thrown out of a group?

How many more of these are we going to see today?

[jeff47]

11. We could start one for every person who got thrown out of the Clinton group.

Though that would kinda mean DU doesn't get to talk about anything else for the next week.

[beam me up scottie]

12. Are they up to 500 yet?

And do they ever talk about Hillary in there? All the threads on the greatest from there are complaining about Bernie and his supporters. Seems like an odd SOP for a group.

[jeff47]

13. Dunno. I gave up and trashed it a couple weeks ago. (nt)

[kath]

16. I know. So few threads about her. very bizarre.

[Cassiopeia]

31. Your results are in

On Sun Feb 7, 2016, 09:25 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

Are they up to 500 yet?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1170773

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This constant meta gossiping is ridiculous. Can we please get away from the 5th grade lunch table level of discourse. This post is rude and yes, disruptive. Please refer to the standards set forth above for jurors. Thank you.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sun Feb 7, 2016, 09:37 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Rude, disruptive and over-the-top.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Could y'all stop alerting on everything BMUS posts? She could post a weather report and somebody would alert on it. Find another witch to hunt, whaddya say?
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If the hosts of the HRC Group are banning so many people left and right, then it shows a disturbing contempt for the democratic process, probably one beyond what Mrs Clinton herself would show. The post wasn't very nice, and I would not have written it myself, but it reflects a uncomfortable truth. Deal with it.

Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Free speech and all that. Oh and thick skin during primaries. Come on now we all still hate the GOP.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If you are going to bitch about Meta there's better posts in this thread to alert. This post does not rise to hide worthy.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

[beam me up scottie]

32. They alerted on me for meta discussion in a meta thread? Do they know what irony is?

Hey alert stalkers, nice try:

Thanks for posting, good jury!

[cui bono]

34. I can assure you that no, they do not know what irony is. n/t

[kath]

40. To comprehend irony requires a certain level of uh, well, you know...

[John Poet]

37. Pitiful, lame-ass, worthless hide attempt

Idiotic.

[TheBlackAdder]

45. All the posts about Purity Tests, yet the HRC Group is the Prime Example of Purity In Action.

.


What's the over/under on when this post gets a flag request?


The suppression of posts that are deemed "hurtful" is nothing but oppressive censorship.


.

[NRaleighLiberal]

24. 487 is the current number.

[beam me up scottie]

25. Dang. Banning people is a full time job.

That takes dedication.

[Trajan]

10. Oh poo ...

Pure and simple ...

[MrChuck]

17. The Sanders campaign

Is not these people.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

19. It's the wing that also disrespects black people. Shamefully disgusting.

[Odin2005]

20. How the fuck is calling her laugh a "cackle" misogynist?

It is a cackle, it sounds like a stereotypical villain laugh.

[basselope]

26. Well.. it's a backhanded thing.

People have often referred to groups of women in a disparaging way as "cackling hens" (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cackling+hens)

Or in a funnier clip

If you want to say it is a villain laugh.. call it her "evil laugh" or something that hasn't also been used as a direct attack on a group of women to dismiss what they are saying.

[TheBlackAdder]

46. Comments about looks, voice, clothing, etc. hurt female candidates, while not hurting males.

.


Gendered attacks, like those, are deliberately used in the media and in campaigns.

Rutgers-Eagleton Center for American Woman and Politics, as well as other researchers, found a 5% reduction in electability when mentioning anything POSITIVE or NEGATIVE about the looks or personal attributes of female candidates. Men are not negatively impacted by these things... just women.


http://www.cawp.rutgers.edu/

.

[riversedge]

47. Thank you for the post.

[Luminous Animal]

21. If there is a Trump with of the Bernie campaign, why are they not supporting Trump?

[HooptieWagon]

55. It's pointless to reason with Camp Weathervane using logic.

Logic is hard, like math.

[AgingAmerican]

22. There is no 'Trump wing'

More crap nonsense

[basselope]

23. With you on everything BUT...

" her underscoring the significance of her being a woman"

She has made this an issue by pulling out the woman card whenever possible.

"How can I be part of the establishment... I'm a woman"

"What's more of an outsider than a woman running for president".


She doesn't deserve the woman vote just because she has the same organs, no more than Bernie deserve the male vote because he has their organs.

It infuriated me during 2008 when people told me they were voting for Obama "because it is time we had a black president".

I don't remember it too well, b/c in many ways I didn't care all that much who won between Obama and Clinton b/c they were bother center right, but I don't ever remember Obama trying to use the color of his skin as a specific campaign tool... maybe he did and I don't remember.

But, it makes me cringe whenever Clinton uses her lady parts as some type of shield and I will call her on it every time.

With that said.. anyone who ridicules her for being a woman or makes a suggestion that it disqualifies her in any way should step aside and let the adults handle things.

[kath]

41. In case you haven't seen this yet:

Hillary Clinton's Internet Supporters Desperately Want This Campaign to be about Sexism
http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2016/02/hillary-clintons-internet-supporters-desperately-w.html

[Jenny_92808]

27. Oh...

a hate thread, taken out of the RW hate playbook.

[mikehiggins]

29. No such thing as a Sanders Trump wing, do wop do wop do wop do wop

(dont mean a thing if you cant do that thing, do wop, etc etc)

It may be a result of just reading DU but I've never actually encountered a thread making the claims you are reporting.

[SamKnause]

30. Hillary does cackle, so it is not an accusation.

I am a 62 year old female and I am sick of her playing the victim and gender card.

Bernie has the support of many people that I admire, that are not white, that

support him. (For transparency I am white. Most of the political figures and

educational titans that I admire are black.)

Bernie has always believed in equality for all races, genders, and the gay community. To say

otherwise is dishonest.

I find Bernie to be honest.

He has integrity.

I am grateful that he is telling the truth about how corruption has infested every

nook and cranny in this country.

[Aerows]

35. "Somebody that claimed to support Bernie was mean to me today on the internet!"

Are people seriously going there?

If I pretend to like Trump and say something mean to everybody that posts in this thread, would that turn you off on Trump?

How about if I'm ugly to Rubio voters?

Maybe I should say Hillary Clinton bakes awful tasting cookies, and Bernie Sanders was too rude to eat the bad cookies to make her feel better.

This is where you guys are going?

[cui bono]

36. Your 'concern' is noted.

What do you think about the Trump wing of the Hillary campaign? And what about the Rove wing of the Hillary campaign? Can't wait for those OPs by you.

Send me the links when you post them.

.

[riversedge]

48. Karl Rove has and is running lots of ads AGAINST Hillary. Republicans do not want

Hillary as the nominee. Seems to me that would be the Rove wing of the Sanders campaign. IMHO

[cui bono]

52. But Sanders and supporters aren't using Rovian tactics like Hillary's camp is.

Republicans simply hate Hillary. Period. That is exactly why we can't run her in the general. She will lose because the voters she will draw to the polls are Republicans who can't wait to cast a vote against her.

.

[SidDithers]

38. DU rec for all kinds of reasons...nt

Sid

[Warren DeMontague]

43. A Berniebro Berniebroke the Berniebrakes on my Berniebike!

I'm Berniebrolling out of Berniebrontrol and I Bernieblame the Berniebros!

[FarPoint]

54. Well said indeed.

It is a dividing behavior. No need for this to ever, ever happen unless there is a fox in the hen-house so to speak.

[Maedhros]

57. Oh, yeah, the "Trump wing."

That's all bullshit and you know it.

Off to the ignore list for you.

[99Forever]

58. How would I go about contacting...

...a member of " The Trump Wing of the Sanders Campaign?"

Volunteering for Bernie's campaign, I have met hundreds, if not thousands of Sanders supporters, but not even one member of the Trump Wing. Please hurry with the contact information so us other Sanders supporters fix your problem for you. Thanks.

[Onlooker]

60. Look at DU

Look for those who accuse blacks of being ignorant if they support Hillary, of Hillary cackling, bring up Republican anti-Hillary talking points, or belittle her for arguing that it's about time we had a woman president. The part of the Sanders wing I'm in is gay and Democratic Socialist. I have not met any of these Trump-like Sanders supporters, but they are easy to find at DU. I tried "fixing" the problem, but was booted from the Sanders forum, so I wish you luck. And thanks for offering.

[99Forever]

61. An actual contact.

I have no interest in playing a shit-stirrers game. You made a broadbrush attack on people. A cowardly one at that. Now you can't even prove those people exist. Step up and own it.

[Beacool]

62. The Left is using the same terminology that the Right has used for years against Hillary.

Right here on DU some posters were calling Hillary's laughter a cackle and even posting images of witches.

To that I say: SHAME ON YOU!!!!!

Calling a woman's laughter a "cackle", her voice "shrill" or putting into question any aspect of her physicality, is not progressive. It's regressive and what the Right has done to liberal women for decades. According to them, we are all ugly lesbians who hate men. Therefore, not worthy of "doing" even with your friend's d*ck. I've read enough of this kind of CRAP on enough RW sites over the years. I refuse to read the same low grade B.S. on a supposed progressive site.

You want to attack her on her policies? That's fair game. Calling her laughter a cackle is not. Grow up and act like progressives!!!

[PaulaFarrell]

63. straw men all

Never seen any of those things