Can HRC supporters please stop using "reality" as a code word for "Just Give Up, Already"?

[Ken Burch]

It's not helpful.

It can't make anything good happen.

And the way things are now is not the way they always have to be.

[Uncle Joe]

1. Their definition of "reality" disregards future dynamics and trends.

Thanks for the thread, Ken Burch.

[wyldwolf]

39. the actual definition of reality disregards future dynamics and trends.

[onecaliberal]

2. The reality is Bernie closed a 30 point gap in a matter of days.

[GoneFishin]

3. They remind me of that parody dating site "Lowered Expectations".

[djean111]

5. They remind me of Jon Lovitz saying "lower your standards"..........................

and they seem to think we are all one-issue supporters, and that even one issue we do not like regarding Bernie makes all the reasons we do not support Hillary vanish. Illogical.

[Docreed2003]

27. Or the new "Settlers" commercials...nt

[randome]

4. Nothing good can come of wishing for unicorns, either.

'Giving up' is equivalent to recognizing that math trumps all. Right now Clinton pretty much has the nomination sewed up. That can change but only if the people change the momentum. Trash-talking Clinton just makes others tune out. (Not meaning you, specifically.)

No one's going to listen to that kind of gamesmanship. In fact, it hardens the opposition against you.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[Ken Burch]

8. Nobody has been wishing for unicorns.

Or expecting instant nirvana.

And nothing is decided in the primaries, either. It's now a dead heat nationally.

[johnnyrocket]

10. "That can change but only if the people change the momentum"

Exactly.

[ljm2002]

13. No, math does not trump all...

...although plenty of people do think that way.

Effort, passion, vision, momentum... these things make a real difference in campaigns.

Ultimately, yes it does come down to votes. At the point where the votes are counted, yes, then and only then, math trumps all. But while we're still seeking those votes, the numbers can change. We have seen it already in Iowa, and in some of the national polls.

[Ken Burch]

18. Math did trump Trump this week, though.

(...it had to be said...)

[emulatorloo]

32. Dirty trick from Cruz campaign trumped Trump

As you probably know, Cruz lied to IA Republican caucus goes and said Ben Carson had dropped out of the race.

[Yurovsky]

25. Damn straight... Anyone who thinks HRC can inspire folks like Bernie is delusional...

Look at his rallies. You see passion. You see enthusiasm. You see hope.

Look at her rallies. The faces say it all. EAT YOUR FUCKING BRUSSELS SPROUTS AND LIVER & ONIONS OR I'LL GIVE YOU SOMETHING TO CRY ABOUT!!! 😡😡😡😡

Seriously, does anyone think HRC will fight for anything other than her bank account?

[Glamrock]

33. I do

I think she'll be excellent on women's issues especially. I also think we will continue to have a govt stacked with industry executives. At the FDA, Treasury, Justice dept., etc. That's why I'm voting Sanders.

[think]

31. Single payer isn't some mystical unicorn. Just because you can't see Canada from where you're at

doesn't mean it it doesn't exist.

Single payer is a viable option for healthcare coverage that exists in Canada, England, & Australia among other places.

So please stop with the ridiculous unicorn references and discuss single payer on it's merits or lack there of based on real models that exist.

[jeff47]

6. No, they can't.

Calling it "realistic" excuses them from failing to do anything about the broken society we live in.

If change were actually possible, they'd have to come to terms with failing to push for that change. And that just doesn't fit with their self-image.

[wildeyed]

15. Nah, realistic means

understanding that a single politician isn't going to save a broken political system. The remedy is far more radical than that.

[Ken Burch]

19. Nobody was SAYING a single politician could save anything. n/t.

[jeff47]

38. And who's making the claim that a single politician is?

Sanders and his supporters repeatedly say it's going to take a lot of ongoing work, not one election.

[Stuckinthebush]

7. Reality has a Clinton bias

Oh, well!

[frylock]

23. Shit is about to get real.

[Ino]

26. Oh, yeah...

[Yurovsky]

28. Remember that when she gets indicted...

She's a lying, greedy, Wall-Street boot-licker. I would venture to guess more than a few million in the Clinton Global Slush Fund, errrr, Initiative was simply payment for services rendered. No wonder she doesn't want to turn over 100% of her emails.

She got into politics to get rich. I'd say she's got enough money now. Maybe even enough to keep her out of jail. But I'd rather spend the next 4 years moving forward and ushering in hundreds of new progressive legislators nationwide, not mired in a GOP-led impeachment of HRC. Guarantee even if I'm wrong about HRC's behavior, the GOP won't let up, and NOTHING will get done.

Flame away, but if you trust HRC, your standards are much lower than mine.

[Stuckinthebush]

29. Karl? I've that you?

Ha!

Great right wings smears! Glenn Beck would be proud!

[johnnyrocket]

9. Things are only "hard", or "unrealistic" when mega-corporations stop them.

It's time to put and end to mega-corps botching the system, and make it work for people.

[wildeyed]

16. Nope.

Been fighting those bastards for decades. Where you been at?

Pro tip: putting an end to "mega-corps botching the system" is harder than it looks!

[Odin2005]

11. Clinton supporters are a perfect example of Ideology in the Marxist sense.

They are so socialized to see the status quo as the only possible reality that they cannot COMPREHEND anything different.

Cue Slavoj Zizek sniffing, rubbing his nose and going "PURE IDEOLOGY".

[DanTex]

12. Reality is important. Ignoring it is a bad idea. And mocking it, even worse.

[reformist2]

17. True. But what is the reality, in the context of this race right now?

[Ken Burch]

20. Nobody's mocking reality. Just saying you guys don't get to be the arbiters of reality.

Or as Inigo Montoya would say:

[wildeyed]

14. reality

noun
1. the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.

Where does it say anything about giving up? But if you don't understand the problem, it is hard to find the correct remedy.

How 'bout a nice quotes to cheer you up!

"The arc of the moral universe is long but it bends toward justice." This is a quote from Theodore Parker that was famously used in a speech by MLK. What that means to me is that change is possible but only incrementally and with great effort.

Surely you do not think that MLK and Parker thought that the way things are now are the way they always have to be? They were both great warriors for justice and change, but they also saw reality and were prepared to fight for the long haul.

[Ken Burch]

21. We ALL are prepared for the long fight.

Everything I said in the OP was ABOUT the long fight.

[wildeyed]

24. No.

Maybe you were thinking about it, but you didn't actually type anything to that effect. What you typed was a crack on Clinton supporters and a fundamental misunderstanding about the meaning of the word 'reality'.

As a Clinton supporter and someone who has actually been fighting for campaign finance reform and a number of other important liberal issues for quite a while, I get REALLY sick of being told that my experience and effort counts for nothing.

If your OP was the continuation of a fight you were having somewhere else, then you need to be more specific for those of us who do not camp out on this board 24/7.

[frylock]

22. I find that anybody that needs to constantly reference reality generally knows fuckall about it.

[Vogon_Glory]

30. Eh?

I'm not asking the Bernie fans to capitulate yet. I'm realistic enough to know that there is a lot of base anger at the national party's fixation of looking like GOP-lite circa 1974, and I'd hope that Hillary takes heed.

No, things are still a long way from decided right now and I think we Democrats need some political fermentation, even those of us who support Hillary.

[ancianita]

34. At least they're not using cheap shot name calling in order to appear clever.

[UglyGreed]

35. .

[earthside]

36. "Reality/Realistic" is code for screw the middle class.

From a good article that shows what kind of circles Hillary Clinton is traveling in ... and how clueless they are about the rise of Sen. Sanders.

When I hear people like the Clintons (worth $135 million) and their pals in the investment banking industry use the words "reality" or "realistic", all I can think of is how they are plotting to take away more of my income, and/or take over more of the government for their own ends.

Hillary Clinton is not one of us ... it is that simple.

Wall Street Billionaire Appears to Be Genuinely Puzzled by Bernie Sanders' Populist Crusade Against the Richest 1%
How is that happening, why is that happening?” wonders Stephen A. Schwarzmann.
By William Boardman - Alternet.org - Feb. 3, 2016

Schwarzman might have gotten a clue when his president at Blackstone Group (Tony James) hosted a multi-million-dollar fundraiser for Democrat Hillary Clinton at which she denounced corporate crime (wink-wink, nod-nod). Clinton omitted denunciation of Blackstone for its then-recent fine by the SEC, even though the Blackstone victims included public pension systems in California, Florida, and New Jersey (for teachers, firefighters, police, and other government workers). And if that didn’t seem like enough of a source for anger, Schwarzman might have listened to fellow Blackstone billionaire Byron Wien, who was kicking those public sector workers back in 2010:

“The retirement benefits for state workers, really not only in New York, California and New Jersey, but throughout the country, are very generous. Too generous. And it is very hard to change that.... But I think we have to be more realistic. We literally can't afford the benefits we have given our retirees in state and local governments. And we have to change that.” [emphasis added]

[Gothmog]

37. Electability is an issue in a primary

I like Sanders personally but I do not think that he is electable in a general election. There is no way that Sanders could compete in a general election contest where the Kochs are spending $887 million, the RNC candidate may spend another billion dollars and Bloomberg spends another billion dollars. Sanders is too vulnerable to negative ads.

You are entitled to vote for the candidate of your choice and I am entitled to vote for the candidate of my choice