Is a backlash coming for Bernie Sanders?

[MineralMan]

That's an interesting question, I think. The venom being projected against Clinton is getting more and more toxic. Not from Bernie, directly, of course, but from some people who call themselves supporters. Clinton gets called "liar" during a debated and booed at a public appearance.

There's a risk in this sort of "support," I think. Not all American voters are so polarized when it comes to primaries within the Party. Not by any stretch of the imagination. Will this "support" eventually lead to some people deciding to vote for Clinton in protest against what they think is unfair treatment of another Democratic candidate?

It's a question I can't answer, really. I switched my support because of it, but I may not be typical of the average Democratic voter. I'll support Sanders if he becomes the nominee, of course, because I'm a lifelong Democrat. But, my primary vote goes to Clinton, in part because of the nature of the campaign against her. I don't respond well to negative campaigning, especially in primary elections. If I wanted to do that, I'd be a Republican. They do it all the time.

I'm not a Republican, though. I've been campaigning for and voting for Democrats since 1960, even when a particular Democrat watn't my first choice in the primaries. I'll keep doing that, but I sense something is about to happen that may swing this primary race back into Clinton's favor.

Hillary went to Flint, Michigan, to support people's need for something to be done about their lead-ridden water supply. She's being attacked, even for that. Just weird, I think. Weird, puzzling, and more than a little alarming. Such things won't work toward support for the other candidate, I'm sure.

[whatchamacallit]

1. No.

[yeoman6987]

22. I didn't think so either

But the vet ton will begin. That always happens to every candidate.

[MineralMan]

25. What is a "vet ton?"

That's not an expression I'm familiar with.

[yeoman6987]

28. Supposed to be vetting.

[MineralMan]

31. Oh, OK. Thanks.

I should have figured that out.

[cadaverdog]

214. No, actually

the poster should have proof read his post before tapping the "send" button. It's only common courtesy to the readers. A pet peeve of mine.
Fire away.

[George II]

235. Yawn.

[tblue37]

274. He could easily fix it in response to MM's question instead of explaining it in a reply post. nt

[MynameisBlarney]

161. Hmmm...good question.

A very obese veterna.....

I'm sorry, I can't finish that it's so bad.

I'll see myself out.

[roguevalley]

211. my support is based on issues and no one elses behavior but the

candidate will change that. I don't care what anyone who supports a candidate does and it surprises me when someone says they won't support a candidate because people they don't know are mean or something. That is beyond my understanding.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

151. This is a fight for the heart and soul of the democratic party

for many this is very serious

[Champion Jack]

221. Nope,

[juxtaposed]

2. nope

[cherokeeprogressive]

3. Nnnnnnnnnnope.

[katmille]

160. Could be

Though the Bernistas will never admit it. Saint Bernie is so pure he probably only needs one pair of underwear.

[RoccoR5955]

164. THAT statement

Is "negative campaigning."

[pangaia]

168. Only people like you call hom a saint and pure.

You must really like him.

[katmille]

242. Hom?

What's a hom?

[pangaia]

256. See my sig line.

[cherokeeprogressive]

176. Took you almost two hours to come up with that weak bullshit?

[A Simple Game]

198. It was taken from a SNL mock debate. It's all good but the undies part starts at about 6:50

[Rod Beauvex]

231. It's fake Bernie Sanders...

And yet the crowd goes wild. That's quite telling, isn't it?

[katmille]

244. Yep.

I have a life!

[Romulox]

4. Nobody believes you switched anything, MineralMan.

[whatchamacallit]

14. What's more embarrassing

than admitting (or claiming) you dropped your preferred candidate because of some internet posters? Not a sign of intellectual strength...

[MissDeeds]

179. +1

[Gorgatron]

263. +2

Acknowledging that it's not his campaign, "directly", doing this mud slinging but you still switch anyway? There are some overly zealous Bernie supporters out there that take things a little too far, but you should decide for yourself who you want to vote for.

I heard someone call in to Wayne Besen's radio show from Iowa saying him and his family switched from Bernie to Hilary at their caucus site because of Bernie supports Hillary bashing (I forget I think they were calling her a corporatist or something). I was happy that later callers during the program criticized the guy for that.

I could understand this if the campaign WAS intentionally smearing Hillary, but as he himself yourself point out, they aren't. If there are more people out there who are so easily swayed, perhaps the Clinton campaign should plant people impersonating Bernie supports at later caucus sites and primary's to shout mean things about Hilary.

Don't mean to come off as a jerk, happy to know he will support the nominee.

[SMC22307]

15. LOL I'm sure ... I think ... I agree. Interesting. Really!

[MineralMan]

21. Well, you don't, at least.

I doubt that you can speak for everyone, though, Romulox.

What I decide to do and why has nothing to do with whether people believe me or not.

But thanks for the reply.

[TheFarseer]

51. Never mind. I may have mis-read that.

[ornotna]

49. Yep

Just more mawkishness if you ask me, much like Hillary's trip to
flint.

[ChiciB1]

100. He DIDN'T... n/t

[JackRiddler]

193. I certainly don't.

[stillwaiting]

199. That's for damn sure. nt

[okasha]

233. That's what you say to comfort yourself in the dark.

[Punkingal]

5. No.

[enid602]

6. Bernie supporters

Bernie supporters are way too aggressive. Kind of creepy. Probably will work against them.

[Duckhunter935]

18. have you visited the Hillary safe haven lately

Talk about uncivil attacks

[enid602]

27. supporters

Bernie supporters are like evangelical Christians.

[Duckhunter935]

39. wow, the insults are strong with

you. I feel sorry for you myself.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

58. Pity would be a better emotion.

Those hillarians still don't understand why their annointed inevitable one is floundering so poorly. They fail to realize that they signed onto a terribly flawed candidate, one whose negatives exceed her supporters, at least across the nation in the general population.

Once that penny drops, I can only imagine their dismay.

[Duckhunter935]

63. Yep

[Duval]

146. It's really too bad. eom

[Plucketeer]

184. Perzactly!

If there's a backlash, it'll be one Hillaree instigates against HERSELF.

[AlbertCat]

157. Bernie supporters are like evangelical Christians.

Ha ha ha That's rich!

I have yet to see a Sanders supporter claim he's the most admired man on the planet.

[Live and Learn]

170. Name calling? Grow up. nt

[tex-wyo-dem]

159. It seems even here on DU (Hillary Group)...

Referring to one of our Democratic candidates as a jackal.

I'll let you guess who they were referring to.

[Perogie]

7. maybe she is a liar and people are just calling it out

[FrenchieCat]

34. Perfect example of name calling.....

right there.

[Perogie]

41. you're wrong.

It wasn't a perfect example.

Would you like to see the difference?

"Maybe she is a liar" is not name calling.

This is name calling. Hillary Clinton is a liar.

See how those are structured differently. One is questioning if in fact she is a liar with no implication she is a liar. The other is a statement declarative relaying information.

[FrenchieCat]

47. Technicality aside....

suggesting that she might be a liar,
is the same as saying it outright.

[Empowerer]

65. It's also cowardly

As Hillary said the other night - "If you have something to say, say it."

[retrowire]

182. He said to her face that she's disingenuous.

It's a polite way of calling someone a liar.

And then we the supporters chanted she's a liar.

So... we're either cowards for not saying it.

Or we're bad for saying it.

Got it.

lmao

[Big Blue Marble]

77. Hi,

I am so glad to see you here. I thought you had left.
You were the best Obama supporter on DU in 2008.

[FrenchieCat]

136. Thank you!

I left because I wanted to enjoy Barack Obama's presidency,
and the negativity at DU didn't allow it.
There was nothing but criticism and negativity at every turn...


As for returning,
I just like winning elections,
and this one is no different!

[Big Blue Marble]

191. I am so glad you are back.

You are always a wise voice of reason and a dedicated fighter.

It is hard to believe that eight years have flown by. I am so sad that it has been
so hard for Obama. He has encountered resistance previously unseen. I am
still so proud that we elected him. It will always be a moment cherished by me and
by many.

Again thanks for coming back. You make DU a better place.

[Bluenorthwest]

129. I have to again defer to your own great writing from 08 on insinuations in polticis:

"When the CLinton campaign including the CLintons and their surrogates
Speak of Obama in terms of:

Preacher
Charismatic
False Hopes
Fairytales
Hillary's "Hard Work" while Obama "talks"
MLK was no LBJ
OBama just Shucks and jive

and Rove adds to the pile on by referring to Obama being lazy--guess he doesn't "do hard work"!

This series of code words (yes, Wes Clark on MSNBC used the word "Preach" when describing what Obama does-Boy was I ever disappointed!) linked together describes a black Preacher who runs his mouth preaching toward "false" hopes which entails no real work being done, while being treated without question; a fairytale....


So the Hillary campaign can imply and hint to and suggest instead of simply describing Obama as a gifted instinctual politician who was also an Columbia/Harvard Grad/community organizer/state senator/u.s. senator/Presidential candidate.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x83084

You really nailed it and the truth never goes out of date!

[riversedge]

156. and 'artful smear" comes to mind.

[Duckhunter935]

42. Did she not say she was a moderate?

now she is saying she did not and it is an attack?

[RoccoR5955]

169. Of course Clinton is a progressive.

You just don't understand what she means by "progressive."
What she means is that she dresses in a white smock with the word "Progressive" in blue on it, and sells you insurance, while wearing bright red lipstick!

[HeartoftheMidwest]

188. Ms. Clinton called herself a Progressive because she actually gave.....

...her own definition of "progressive."

She said, "I'm a progressive because I believe in progress."

That is a GENERAL description, when in the debate and in political circles people define "Progressive" as someone with specific political ideas. She was being disingenuous or she was being duplicitous, but she was NOT being truthful, because she knows damn well what Progressive means to the people that were listening.

And progress can be good or bad, which maybe be closer to the truth of who she really is. She may see building the Keystone pipeline as "progress," but few Progressives will.

[RoccoR5955]

190. Doh! And here I thought that she was an insurance TV personality!

[Beartracks]

202. Progressive isn't so much what you believe in...

... as much as it is what you DO about those beliefs.

ESPECIALLY if you're running for elected office.

Both a conservative and a liberal can be concerned about childhood poverty, but that doesn't make them both progressive. The policies that each would implement (or have implemented in the past) are what distinguishes whether or not they are progressive.

=====================

[frylock]

54. Hillary Clinton is a documented serial liar.

Documented.

[FloridaBlues]

228. And people wonder why we think the Bernie supporters are alittle over the top

[frylock]

232. Prove otherwise.

Prove that Hillary isn't on video telling lies.

[Squinch]

8. Happy to K&R this.

[HassleCat]

9. This is Democratic Underground, and Democratic Overkill

Some people here are way, way too excited, way too invested, way too far in the tank for their candidates. Every time the opposing candidate does something perfectly normal, they jump all over it. Both candidates should go to Flint, talk to the people, reassure them that Democrats will help them in any ways we can, etc.

[Agschmid]

12. Yup.

[FSogol]

35. and point out how Republican policies got them to the point of poisoning Flint.

[HassleCat]

43. What I would say

If I were Hillary or Bernie, I would point out what happens when federal agencies like EPA are gutted, when government scientists are forced to suppress their results, when we have agency heads who believe government has no business helping people. And I would promise to use executive orders to round up the criminals and throw them in jail.

[FSogol]

73. Yup and add privitization, cost cutting to reduce taxes, and refusual to properly

fund needed infrastructure repairs.

[MineralMan]

61. That would seem to be the best approach, I think.

The reasons Flint happened should be high on the list for exposing Republican policies and their effects on people. That opportunity should not be missed.

[boston bean]

10. No one is safe from these on line warriors for Bernie.

They are making fools of themselves. Attacking Jane Goodall, John Lewis, Barbara Boxer, Sybrina Fulton, unions and anyone who dare to endorse her.

Their anger is palpable and it reeks of despseration and in the end will not bode well for their candidate.

[FarPoint]

17. They remind me, give the instinctive twinge of danger...

Similarly to that of my Parties chief opponent.

[cyberswede]

83. lol

You need to read this.

[boston bean]

101. I love that!

[frylock]

112. Ha!

[Nanjeanne]

11. Let me think for a second . . . .

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[FarPoint]

13. Let the voters decide...My guess....

He will crash and burn on Super Tuesday.

[MineralMan]

26. It will be the voters who decide. You're right.

And they are whom I'm talking about. The voters. Nobody else matters, really.

[Duckhunter935]

16. no she is just being called out in her

Transparency. But calling him a socialist and a communist in a derogatory way is fine for the Hillary supporters. If she really wanted to do something, she could spend some of those hundreds of millions in speaking fees on water or replacing pipes in poor people's houses. Bet she will not part with her money to help them.

[oasis]

37. "Part with her money". Hillary put a national spotlight on Flint

with her closing debate comments a couple weeks ago. From that sprung the discussion and mobilization of aid for Flint residents. In reality, because Hillary spoke up on their behalf, Flint citizens are getting far more help now than they ever could have imagined before the debate.

[Duckhunter935]

44. No, Rachel Maddow

MSNBC and the NBC did. She just followed.

[oasis]

55. Rachel Maddow brought it to light. Hill got the ball rolling.

But then, you knew that.

[redstateblues]

229. He has called himself a Socialist many times

[Duckhunter935]

230. he has call himself a DEMOCRATIC socialist

Her surrogates are using socialist as an insult and also include the hammer and sickle. That red baiting by her campaign is sickening.

[DanTex]

19. He should have objected to the "liar liar" chants, that's for sure.

[Duckhunter935]

45. did she object to the boos her supporters

shouted at Bernie last year?

I am sure you can link to her objecting

[DanTex]

56. LOL. You mean some random people on the street yelling "Ted Cruz"?

Yeah, it's exactly the same. By the way, where was Clinton in the video, I didn't see her?

[Duckhunter935]

66. Ted Cruz carrying

Hillary signs!

It was on the news, she saw it and was silent

[DanTex]

76. Did you even watch your own video? With the sound on?

Aha, so Hillary wasn't even there. Even more preposterous than before. Somehow Hillary is supposed to reach into her television, go back in time, and tell Ted Cruz supporters to stop booing Bernie.

Well done!

[Duckhunter935]

82. you mean the ones at the start carrying Hillary signs?

It was pointed out at the time and she was silent

[DanTex]

90. So how do you think she was supposed to stop them exactly?

[frylock]

94. The ironing is delicious.

Read the fucking OP, Dan. Holy fucking shit!

[DanTex]

97. Of course you want to pretend it doesn't exist, but the more it goes on,

the worse Bernie looks. Even McCain at one point showed the decency to take one of his supporters to task.

[frylock]

107. Your hypocrisy has been duly noted.

Again.

[DanTex]

111. Bashing me isn't going to help Bernie here, but if it makes you fell better....

[Duckhunter935]

117. and your blinders are not helping you

you should at least admit it goes both ways.

[DanTex]

120. We'll found out pretty soon which side is wearing blinders. But when even the BBC

takes notice of the ugly undercurrents of the campaign, it's not a good sign. Nor is your pretending that a few random people on a street yelling "Ted Cruz" in a place where Hillary wasn't even there is the same as Bernie letting his supporters, at an event he organized, scream "liar" at Hillary while he was giving a speech.

[Duckhunter935]

123. so an easy question

why were the Ted Cruz supporters at the beginning of this clip carrying Hillary signs?

[DanTex]

125. I can't tell who that woman yelling "Ted Cruz" was from the video. Can you?

[frylock]

118. Bashing? Better summon the alert squad.

Your hypocrisy and double standards are on display for all to see, Dan. They don't even need to leave this thread.

[Duckhunter935]

121. I am sure he will

that is what they do. That way they can still criticize a poster and they are no longer able to respond. My guess is some of these will indeed be alerted on soon.

[frylock]

126. I know I'm pressing my luck, because the alert squad seems to be especially active on weekends.

It's like they have nothing better to do. I'm going to watch the first half of the Aztec game, and then go for a ride on the trails.

[Duckhunter935]

110. She can SAY

something. Funny same as when some say he is a "socialist" in a derogatory way as an insult. Of course she was challenged and looked like an idiot.

[DanTex]

134. McCaskill has been a voice of reason during this campaign.

She was right that the media had been giving Bernie a pass for a long time, but they're finally starting to give him some scrutiny. As evidenced by the increased anger from Bernie supporters online, as well as the increased number of liberals like Krugman being thrown under the bus.

As far as the socialism thing, well, duh. If Bernie wins, the GOP is going to hammer him about that. How anyone can doubt that is beyond me.

[Kentonio]

253. McCaskill a voice of reason?

Now that's funny. Her red baiting and smearing has been revolting, yet sadly unsurprising.

[aikoaiko]

248. I'll take civilians yelling liar over despicable HRC surrogates anyday.

[frylock]

86. No, they were saying "Boo-ernie"

[frylock]

59. I'd be happy with a link to Hillary Supporter objecting.

You're not gonna get that either.

[Duckhunter935]

72. any Hillary supporter, I know they will not

had one just say the were actually saying "Ted Cruz" but carrying Hillary signs!

[frylock]

79. No, they were saying "Boo-ernie"

[Duckhunter935]

85. Love it, lol

[oasis]

20. Ask the Hillary endorsers who have been harrassed for not making

the CORRECT choice.

[frylock]

95. Define "harrassed"

[oasis]

122. Most computers have reasonable search capabilities.

maybe it's time to visit Best Buy.

[frylock]

128. Provide examples of harrassment.

[Empowerer]

23. I don't know of anyone who switched their vote, but I do know several people who were on the fence

but tipped to Hillary's side because they were so disgusted by the attitude of Bernie supporters.

One friend told me, "I like Hillary much better but Bernie Sanders is ok. But I don't want to spend the general election campaign with these know-it-alls in charge and the idea of them being in charge of government turns my stomach."

Among the things that he found to be a turnoff was the 23-year-old white Bernie supporter who told him that, if he didn't realize that Sanders was better for black people than Hillary, he was a self-hating black man who other black people should be ashamed of.

He also said, "If one more of these people gets in my face and tells me to 'feel the Bern,' I'm going to kick his ass.'"

Seriously.

[MineralMan]

29. That is a cautionary tale, I think.

It's descriptive of what I'm asking, too.

[mmonk]

24. No. What he will receive is pushback from the corporate state.

[angrychair]

30. I encourage you to broaden your horizons

Since you support Hillary, go to her protected group, ask questions. Go to their other site and look how they talk about Bernie and his supporters. Hold them to the same standards you ascribe to here. I see a block in your future if you do.

[MineralMan]

38. My horizons are plenty broad, and I'm not just talking about DU.

As for closed groups, I don't do those. I prefer open discussions. DU is the only political discussion site I visit, but it's far from my only political involvement.

I'm writing here in GD . That's where I post. In the real world, I'm very active in Democratic politics in my own area. I'm also an avid news reader. The things I'm talking about are going on everywhere, really. If you think I'm insular, you're mistaken.

[angrychair]

150. I respect that

That you are involved locally is great.

My point is that you appear to hold Sanders supporters to a different standard than Clinton supporters. Both on DU and real life, I have encountered Clinton supporters that weld red-baiting, ageism and antisemitism as their weapons of choice.
At the end of the day its about changing the paradigm.
Income inequality has created a situation in which we are beholden to the mercy and charity of the wealthy and powerful.
The make-up of Congress, state legislatures and governorship in our country is not in Democrats favor. Current political environment creates that situation. As Democrats we are losing our influence on the entire political process and that has to change.

For what it is worth, I don't hate or even dislike Clinton, I just don't think she can fix the problems we face. While it is no crime, her methods and perspective are about how things were done in the past. I want a candidate that moves into the next era of political power. Not one that continues the status quo.

Thanks and good luck.

[NurseJackie]

32. The louder they are, the sweeter the silence will be.

That day is coming soon. Very, very soon.

[Duckhunter935]

33. This started a long time ago from the Hillary supporters

Labor day 2015

How classy of the Hillary supporters

[frylock]

69. *crickets*

[Duckhunter935]

78. Notice that

This is hilarious!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1159014

[frylock]

89. Do you think they really believe their own crap?

I mean... wow.

[libdem4life]

36. Any person who makes a candidate selection because of the other candidates folk...regardless...is

not making up their own mind, which IMO is by assessing issues and likely performance in the top office in the nation. That's my opinion. Deciding on a candidate is an important decision. Deciding by who supporters are the most (fill in the blank)_______, not so much.

[MineralMan]

46. People make decisions for all sorts of reasons.

I like both Bernie and Hillary, for different reasons. I'll support either one enthusiastically in the general election campaign.

Either would do a pretty good job as President, I'm sure, especially given what the legislative environment will be.

However, I'm not really talking about me. I'm talking about voters in general. How they decide for whom to vote is very complex. I know why I decide. Others have different criteria. There are 50 states participating in this primary season. They, and the voters in them, are not all homogeneous. Not at all.

The nominee, in the end, will be the one who gets the most votes in the most states. The delegate count is all that matters. I'm voting for the person I think will win in the end. That's my criterion and my only criterion. You may have different reasons for your choice. We each have one vote during primary season.

[libdem4life]

64. I'll take your word for it. Maybe I'm too old...we were taught to look at the policies, principles,

record, and do research...not go for the fluff. That does explain a lot to me...JMO. What do I know...I voted for McGovern.

[MineralMan]

71. I voted for McGovern, too.

Democrats voted for him. Those who didn't weren't really Democrats. We lost. That's scary.

[CorporatistNation]

40. Supporting Hillary Because The TRUTH Is Being Leveled Against Her Is LUDICROUS

The TRUTH is her own doing... She should have thought before she took BIGGG speaking fees from Wall Street hedge Funds et al...., payed insider tips on cattle futures parlaying $1,000 into $98,000), She should have thought before telling UN-truths! Anyone who votes for Hillary in the primary given her questionable character, integrity and judgement...(Iraq War Vote, Servers, No Fly Zone Syria, Libya regime change, Poor Mgt of Benghazi and on and on... ) is a person in ABJECT DENIAL about this very poor excuse for a candidate.

[Matariki]

48. By the looks of DU this morning there's certainly an effort being made

[TheProgressive]

50. It's pitiful when Clinton supporters only recourse is to call Sanders's supporters meanies...

That's because there isn't anything real to 'attack' Sanders on...Especially ISSUES.

And, really, you 'switched your support' because of these so-called venomous Sanders supporters.?

Couldn't your thread be considered a venous attack on Sanders supporters - exactly what
you are railing against here?

[Big Blue Marble]

52. As a long time DUer,

I am highly disturbed by the strange toxic brew of hostility here.
Last I checked, we are all Democrats. I, personally, am extremely left
of center and choose to support Hillary Clinton for very pragmatic
reasons. I understand her flaws as well as anyone. I am still supporting
her. I know there is no perfect candidate. Politics, especially in the
current climate is just too complex and polarized. I do not understand
why there is as much polarization within this party as between the parties.

I respect those who support Bernie Sanders and would vote for
him even those I have major issues with several of his policy positions.

Having said that, I am totally turned off by the attacks on Hillary here or elsewhere.
They seem worse than any anger that was expressed here during the Bush Administration.

And I say to the Sanders minions:

Whatever your personal opinion of Hillary Clinton is, she is a
great American who has given most of her life to her country. She
remains one of the most admired people in our country. Even if
you do not agree with her politics, she deserves your respect.

Elections are only won when a party come together and is unified.
This election will define the rest of our lives. It is far too important
for an internecine war.

[Duckhunter935]

60. and made hundreds of millions of dollars

I hope you say the same thing about the Hillary supporters tone also, interesting you did not. Just forget or are all of those insults OK by you?

[Big Blue Marble]

91. I would appreciate your backing up your accusation with facts and evidence.

Could you link me to an article proving her vast accumulation of wealth.

[Duckhunter935]

96. sure

last 18 months
http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/244914-fiorina-clinton-top-2016-rich-list

http://www.davemanuel.com/pols/hillary-clinton/

I would say it is vast

[Big Blue Marble]

109. The figure seems to be around 30 million not hundreds of millions.

Do you have a link for the your 100's of millions?

[Duckhunter935]

115. 30-52 million now

just for her, not counting residences. Over the last 30 years she has indeed earned hundreds of millions of dollars. She is indeed vastly wealthy.

[MineralMan]

67. Thanks. We're not dissimilar

in how we see things.

[BlueMTexpat]

206. +1!

You speak for me too.

[Kentonio]

254. Seriously?

a great American who has given most of her life to her country.

Please explain to me what sacrifices this multimillionaire has made by following the career she has. She's worked in a series of positions that allow her to live in extreme comfort with staff waiting on her, while she accumulated vast wealth and the easy potential to make a lot more.

Given most of her life indeed.. There's a few hundred million Americans who would love to have the opportunity to suffer through her lifestyle.

[Big Blue Marble]

260. Perhaps you should step away from the Internet

long enough to study American history. Many great Americans have been quite wealthy. Jefferson and Washington were very wealthy and actually had many slaves. Franklin Roosevelt lived in great luxury before he was in the White House. John Kennedy came from a very wealthy family as did his brothers Robert and Edward. All these men were great Americans.

Today, John Kerry, Diane Feinstein, and Barbara boxer are all very wealthy citizens who are making sacrifices for their country daily. Regardless of her wealth, Clinton has spent most of her life in public service. She has dedicated her life to making her country a better place to live. She has earned the right to be called a great American and one of the most accomplished women of our time. If your hatred blinds you to these these realities, that is your loss not hers.

[Kentonio]

265. What accomplishments exactly?

She was First Lady, stepped into a safe senate seat despite having no previous elected experience, and was then given the SoS gig. What has she actually achieved that has significantly improved the lives of Americans?

[Big Blue Marble]

266. I think you have answered your own question.

Last edited Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:02 PM - Edit history (2)

many of our first ladies are held in historical esteem for that reason only. Hillary went on to be elected to the Senate of the United States of America, an honor very few people achieve and Secretary of State that is an honor on to itself. Certainly, President Obama felt she was capable of holding this most important position in government, a position many recognize as being only the second in power to the president of the United States. Any objective observer would recognize these are all great accomplishments that few men and no other woman has ever achieved.

[KingCharlemagne]

264. Any pol who voted for thw Iraq War deserves contempt and derision, not

respect. (Unless you think there really were WMDs in Iraq.)

[Big Blue Marble]

269. Hillary Clinton has publicly acknowledged that she was wrong.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2014/06/05/hillary-clinton-on-iraq-vote-i-still-got-it-wrong-plain-and-simple/

Do you feel the same about the Vice President of the United States? Did you
know when you voted for him twice that he voted for the Iraq Resolution?
Does he also deserve "contempt and derision?" And the other 27 democratic senators who
joined Biden and Clinton, they, too, [link:http://|are scum?


Where were you before the Iraq War? I was in the streets and in the remaining small
minority (10%) of Americans who was against it.

Clinton has acknowledged her grievous error and it is time to move on to our current
challenges.

[KingCharlemagne]

271. If we are going to compare pedigrees, I hit the

Streets in early Nov. 2001 and protested twice- and thrice weekly from then through Jan 2009. During the time, my car was vandalized several times (tires flattened, radio antenna bent, then broken). I was physically assaulted while protesting once.

Biden is not a candidate for POTUS, nor is Kerry. Biden deserves contempt and derision for, among other things, Clarence Thomas. Kerry is probably the saddest of the lot, as his Iraq War vote has forever blemished his honorable opposition to Iraq, v 1.0 (aka Vietnam).

[Big Blue Marble]

272. I am sorry that you were assaulted while protesting.

You can hold your head high. Your bravery is exemplary. You join the ranks of the millions
who have risked their lives for an important cause.

Biden is and has been vice president which means he could become president. I certainly hope
you voted Obama/Biden twice meaning you were agreeing to that possibility. To argue differently
is only to rationalize. I agree with you about Kerry and Biden, but I am a pragmatist. I voted for Kerry
and I voted for Biden. i would vote for either and I will vote for Clinton. The radical rightwing
onslaught is so destructive to this country, the world, and our very existence on this planet, nothing
these people have done is worthy of condemnation. We are in survival mode, period.

[pandr32]

53. Obviously here it depends on who you ask

I personally think that there is toxic "venom being projected against Clinton" and I also believe that she has more support than many here realize. Most of her supporters have stopped posting on DU. It certainly helps the Bernie supporters feel as though they are dominant.
There very well could be backlash. It has happened in the past. Elections tend to become quite heated and emotional and things can quickly turn. Bernie Sanders seems to be transforming in front of our eyes, and that might turn more and more people off.

[Larkspur]

57. Calling young women who vote for Bernie doing it because they want boys or

threatening women who do not support Hillary with going to Hell, will definitely create a backlash against Hillary from women, young and old, like me.

[MineralMan]

74. I didn't even enter those threads.

Nor will I.

[BillZBubb]

114. Of course you don't.

That's why you have the skewed opinion that Bernie's supporters are over the top and Hillary supporters are kind hearted souls.

[Duckhunter935]

119. Of course not

you only want to criticize one side and want to blissfully ignore her supporters insults.

[DeadLetterOffice]

212. if you have dropped Sanders as a primary candidate because of his supporters...

... wouldn't you also want to know the toxic things HRC's supporters are saying/doing - in the wilder world AND on DU?

I find the extremists on both sides to be engaging in ugly, childish behaviors, and will not be choosing my primary candidate based on the worst actions of either of their supporters.

[Arazi]

234. You refuse to look at the viciousness of the Clinton supporters?

even as you say mean Bernie supporters caused you to switch?

Pretty stunning hypocrisy.

Check out the disgusting jackassradicals.com where they viciously go after good DUers like Omaha Steve.

Or the hillaryclintonsupporters.com site which has to hide entire forums they are so nasty.

Hell, even check the HRC forum here for an eye opener from your HRC compatriots

Deliberate willful blindness even as you blame Sanders supporters is pretty damn hypocritical

[BlueMTexpat]

213. Can you provide examples of threatening

women who do not support Hillary with going to Hell on DU?

That's a new one for me.

If I wanted to, I could probably find some real nasties directed at me personally simply for being an HRC supporter. But since I have a very long "FULL Ignore" list these days, I am likely missing the most choice of them. Ignorance is indeed bliss.

[Larkspur]

245. From The Guardian, Feb 6, 2016

Albright: special place in hell for women who dont support Clinton

[BlueMTexpat]

258. Fair enough, but apparently I was not clear

in my request. I meant those of us on DU who threatened such a thing. Unless you have proof that Madeleine Albright is posting here on DU, you cannot do that.

What Madeleine Albright actually said was this: "There is a special place in hell for women who don't help each other." Even assuming that hell exists (which I don't), Madeleine did not specifically state that those who don't support Hillary Clinton deserve a special place there. Nor does she have any power or authority whatsoever to consign anyone to hell.

Like Albright, I have a very low opinion of women who don't help each other in a world where power rests primarily in the hands of men. But then I also have a very low opinion of any human being who does not help another human being of whatever ethnicity, culture, color of skin, gender, etc. when that person is in need.

It has been my rather long experience that generally those who are loathe to help the former are also unhelpful with respect to the latter. However I don't believe that a political campaign at the primary stage is the kind of necessity that would require my low opinion of any woman who supports Bernie - after all, reasonable persons can differ and he is an excellent candidate.

But I do have a very low opinion of those Bernie supporters - whether women or not - who deliberately and constantly post GOP memes here against HRC. This is, after all, a site dedicated to supporting Democrats, not doing the GOP's work for it.

I also believe that such individuals are in the minority, even though they are among the most strident. Many also appear to have nothing else to do 24/7.

[cali]

62. Much as you desire it, no. Not unless it's manufactured

There is plenty of deeply ugly crap from Hillary supporters out there too.

[cyberswede]

68. "I switched my support because of it"

That seems like a weak reason to support a candidate.

I think most people possess the critical thinking skills to separate the words/actions of supporters from those of the candidate.

[Hissyspit]

217. It is.

And wonder if it actually happened.

[valerief]

70. More bullshit supporter bashing. It's quite tiresome. nt

[frylock]

75. No.

[malletgirl02]

80. Hillary Clinton supporters

I'm tired of the meme that Bernie Sanders supporters are the only ones who sling insults. Clinton supporters are not "babes in the woods", the give as good as they get.

[frylock]

103. They can give, but not very well, and that's what's at the root of all this whinging.

[LonePirate]

81. Bernie is a good man with good ideas but he needs to start reigning in his more toxic supporters.

There is plenty of lively and good debate to be had on the topics and issues. It's another thing entirely to plumb the depths of character assassinations commonly perpetuated by the members of FR and by some of Bernie's most fervent supporters. In that regard, some of them are no different than the human scum of FR.

[nxylas]

155. I wonder if that's even possible

Firstly, some of his more toxic supporters may not actually be his supporters. Secondly, even if someone is not an agent provocateur, just an asshole, I'm not sure they would stop being an asshole even if Bernie personally went to their home and told them "Hey, stop being an asshole".

[BlueMTexpat]

207. +1! eom

[okasha]

237. So how is Bernie going to persuade

the Republicans in Congress not to be assholes if he can't even talk the people who supposedly love him into not being assholes?

That is where candidate choice and supporter behavior intersect.

[nxylas]

246. And how is Hillary going to do it?

You imply that persuading Republicans not to be assholes is in some way possible. I think Bernie will be able to outmanoeuvre them the way he is consistently outmanoeuvring the Clinton machine, whereas Hillary will simply use their intransigence as an excuse to push right-wing policies while claiming that the mean old Republicans made her do it.

Edited to add: Plus, I think there would be fewer of them if the Dems choose as their nominee the candidate who inspires genuine enthusiasm rather than weary resignation.

[okasha]

268. I think you need to question some of your buried assumptions.

First, Bernie is not "consistently outmanoeuvering," anyone. Assuming he has not given his consent to Weaver's and Devine's serial disengenuousness in his ads, he can't even "manoeuver" his own campaign. Nor, in his 25 years in Congress, has he worked significantly with either party. The Republicans would eat him alive.

Hillary, on the other hand, has dealt with legislators on both sides of the aisle. She knows these people. She'll get things done the same way LBJ did: jawbone the difficult, persuade the more reasonable, and remind the intransigent that she knows where the bodies are buried. Now, they may still be assholes. But she'll have their cooperation, however reluctant.

LBJ's definition still holds. Politics is the art of the possible, played out in the real world. . It's not about the wicked witch v. the noble lion and his Children's Crusade. I'm sure that Brit history will also bear that out.

[cantbeserious]

84. No Mineral Man - That Conjecture Is A Sad Set Of Dreams - From Camp HRC

eom

[kennetha]

87. It goes both ways as I said in another post

Bernie Supporters vs Hilary Supporters: Seen through Each Other's Eyes.


How Clinton Supporters See Sanders Supporters:

Starry-eyed, holier than thou dreamers, who have no idea how real politics works in the real world, who arrogantly dismiss those who disagree with them as morally compromised, sellouts to corporate america, wolves in sheep clothing, out to destroy the progressive movement from within, while doing the bidding of their true masters.

How Sanders Supporters see Clinton Supporters.

Defeatists, cowardly sell-outs, wolves in sheep clothing, corporate whores pretending to be progressives. Like the house negroes of old, they suck up to the master while getting nothing but crumbs from his table, while arrogantly dismissing all who disagree and demand more as starry-eyed holier than thou dreamers, who have no idea how real world politics w

[whatchamacallit]

88. Seems your defection is an admission, that for you, the defining issue of this election

is manners. Otherwise, your principles and convictions couldn't be so easily overridden by some disagreeable posts on the internet.

[last1standing]

92. Thanks for your 'concern'

And for the record, your many, many posts at FreeRepublic show that at one time you were a Republican. Did you respond well to negative campaigning then? Is that why you're supporting the NoHope Hillary campaign now? Do you support David Brock's many attempts to smear Bernie with negative stories? Did you support NoHope Hillary sending her daughter out on the trail to smear Bernie with negative campaign lies?

We all want to know, since you're so 'concerned' about this upcoming backlash.

[Duckhunter935]

93. do you agree with the Hillary supporters booing

Bernie from last year?

[intheozone]

98. The backlash has already happened for me, I've been turned off Bernie

by the Bernie people posting disgusting shit on this board. Can't support someone supported by such extreme, unreasonable people.

[Duckhunter935]

99. Nice story

Sad that you let supporters control your vote

[bkkyosemite]

113. You would let supporters keep you from voting for the candidate

that one throws me for a loop.

[intheozone]

132. I would vote for Bernie over a Republican, but I

would have to hold my nose to do it. But I would vote for a dead person over a Republican too.

[litlbilly]

154. Liar, dont believe that for a second.

[Bluenorthwest]

102. It's insulting that you think anyone here believed your wee miniseries 'Switching Sides: How I

Escaped The Bernie Cult'. It had all the authenticity of the latest edition of Sharknado.

[orpupilofnature57]

104. Only to the superficial yuppie who see's this as a show or game .

[tecelote]

105. 'Better believe it!

The corporate media just realized that he is going to be President.

Ignore just isn't working.

Hang on tight, it's about to get real.

[restorefreedom]

106. the venom being projected FROM clinton and her surrogates

has been vile, personal, and has no place in a civil contest. and lets remember who was booed at the debate and what provoked it:

https://m.

[orpupilofnature57]

185. And that's the TRUTH !!! { Yelled in a scolding fashion }

[restorefreedom]

200. yes! and, for those of us old enough to remember,....

https://m.

[orpupilofnature57]

204. Cool

[bkkyosemite]

108. Well there is that crying thing. If she does that again...well who knows.

[riversedge]

124. i hear and see lots of Republcans mocking Clinton when she gets emotional. It is a low blow

when I see Democrats mocking and or making rude comments

[BlueMTexpat]

208. "Self-described" Dems - who

may not actually be Dems at all.

[riversedge]

218. That is always a possibility

[okasha]

239. Edmund Muskie.

For those that don't remember, look it up.

[ancianita]

116. I agree with you about why she went to Flint. I'm not against Hillary.

[Glamrock]

127. Yes it's getting ugly

While I support Sanders, some of my fellow supporters are getting out of hand, imho. But, that's the sound of revolution.... The people are pissed at the establishment and she's the establishment candidate.

[PoliticAverse]

130. Perhaps. Some of what you see now on DU is the backlash against Clinton from 2008. n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

131. "If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." Harry S. Truman

Being a "political realist" I see her jaunt to Michigan as a photo-op that she's cashing in on.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

133. I am truly baffled by the idea

that one might even consider choosing one's preferred candidate on the basis the behavior of some of his/her supporters on the Internet. It's true that some Sanders supporters have been intemperate, rude, and downright nasty. The same is also true of some Clinton supporters. But I don't care about what any Internet message board pundits say and I'm not letting them decide this thing for me. That some people act like dicks on the Internet is about the lamest, most intellectually lazy reason I can think of for choosing a candidate or changing to another one.

Politics can provoke irrational behavior; people can become emotionally invested in their candidate choice to an unreasonable degree. Maybe this is because when you say you prefer candidate X and I tell you I think you're wrong and you should be supporting candidate Y instead, I am implicitly, if unintentionally, criticizing your judgment. I'm saying you made a mistake in your choice and that my choice is better - so you get angry and insult me and/or my candidate. This, in turn, pisses me off because I don't like being insulted. And on and on it goes. Sorry, but that's a seriously stupid way to decide how you're going to vote; if you do that you're letting your ego control your intellect. Accept that some people on either side are going to behave like dicks. Ignore them; you know what they say about opinions. Does a candidate for the most part reflect your values? Does that candidate have a reasonable shot a beating the GOP? If you think the answer to both is yes, go with that candidate regardless of whether somebody who supports them was rude on the Internet.

[hifiguy]

135. How is discussing HRH's policy positions or lack thereof

and her near total congruity with Repig positions on economic (neoliberal) and foreign policy (belligerent, imperial, neocon) venomous?

[FrenchieCat]

137. Your selectiveness on what is actually happening on this Internet

and in reality is remarkable.

[hifiguy]

144. I speak only on behalf of the arguments I make myself.

I don't attempt to speak for others. And it isn't the Bernie supporters who have set up sites for the sole purpose of mocking supporters of the other candidate. That "honor" belongs to the Hillarians.

[FrenchieCat]

171. Nevertheless....

The Bernie campaign is supposed to be a "we the people" campaign,
and therefore what "we the people" Bernie Supporters do and say,
reflect directly onto the campaign.

You can play "I know you are, but what am I?" as much as you please,
if that makes you feel better about what is actually clearly happening.

[OilemFirchen]

138. From one of my many strident Berniac Facebook friends:

Sanders national numbers are soaring, he's had my vote for awhile now but if I have to endure much more of the gop styled vindictive slamming and even worse the shrill bandwagon braying of the starry eyed berns, I may just take Noam's advice and cast a strategic vote; not for the reasons he suggested but to allow myself to maintain some small degree of dignity.

I don't participate in political discussions on Facebook. The vast majority are boilerplate Sanders screeds followed by the expected attaboys. They're often vicious and surprisingly ill-conceived. But these are my real-life friends so I simply avoid the fray.

Trust me when I say that this friend's admission was a considerable shock. He was an active participant in what he has finally conceded is beyond the pale. Very telling... and it's still early.

[MineralMan]

147. Thanks for that. I've seen similar on Facebook.

I find it off-putting, to say the least.

[Helen Borg]

139. What is coming is a REVOLUTION!

But yes, Hillary tried to poke Bernie several times, insulting his intelligence with such childish lies in an attempt to paint him as "angry". But Bernie knows better.

[Armstead]

140. Dunno...Butr there's a perennial "backlash" against Clinton

[Spitfire of ATJ]

141. Tell her to stop lying: Problem solved.

[mcar]

142. K&R

This place makes me so sad sometimes.

[TTUBatfan2008]

143. Is a backlash coming against empty feminism?

"Vote for her because she's a woman." She even has official surrogates pushing this line while they suggest there is a special place in hell for women who don't vote for Hillary. Meanwhile the Bill Clinton/GWB/Obama War Machine agenda that Hillary has supported time and time again over the last 25 years has led to the death of millions of innocent women in other countries.

[jillan]

145. There already has been a backlash towards Hillary as a result of the smears directed at Bernie

Let's see - Bernie raised 1.2 million when Brock compared Bernie to Hugo Chavez
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/09/17/supporters-respond-pro-clinton-super-pac-smears-donating-1-2-million-bernie-sanders.html

And then there was this when Clinton allies called Bernie a communist sympathizer.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jan/22/bernie-sanders-communist-sympathiser-hillary-clinton-us-election-2016

And then there was the time when Hillary wasn't exactly truthful about Bernie's healthcare plan
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/01/sanders-hauls-in-31-million-amid-clinton-attacks-217890

I could go on......

[loyalsister]

148. Bernie's campaign has tapped into real and righteous, though not necessarily healthy anger

We Democrates are in the unfortunate position of having to vote in an election between a candidate who has generated enthusiasm through anger and a candidate who personifies what they are angry about.
Economic inequality is not just a chart Robert Reich uses, there are families who are living it. The candidate who represents what they feel has stomped on their opportunity but claims to care is a predictable target for some of that anger.

I don't know if there will be a backlash against Bernie. I do think that there will be one against Democrats if Hillary is the nominee. The disaffected first time Obama voters who are supporting Bernie will not vote at all because her nomination will confirm their suspicion that it's all rigged and their vote doesn't matter. It seems childish from my perspective, but I'm not one who is working 2 jobs and still struggling.

I am not crazy about either candidate and I am not confident that either can win. As it stands, I will be voting for the candidate who I dislike the least when the time comes next month.

[Skwmom]

149. The manufactured unfair treatment is just the latest manipulation of the voting public. n/t

[treestar]

152. Yes, I agree. I do not like at all attacking people for positive things they do

I would not criticize Bernie were he to do such a thing. And in the end they are supposedly on the same side as us, so it should be more positive for the supported candidate and not so much negativity toward the other.

There are some Hillary supporters saying Bernie can't win and that's not a real criticism of him just as estimate of what the voters are like.

But the anti-Hillary material here is rarely that, it's more personal and trying to cut her down. Stupid frame of mind to get yourself into when you are likely to end up supporting her over a Republican.

[TTUBatfan2008]

173. Accusations of sexism and racism

against Bernie himself. That's no worse than what you describe with the Bernie supporters attacking Hillary "personally." It is not a personal attack to point out that Hillary and Bill have accepted hundreds of millions of dollars from Wall Street, Big Pharma, and weapons manufacturers or that their Treasury Secretary was a Goldman Sachs/Citigroup executive (Robert Rubin). Bottom line is that big corporations own our politics and it's a huge problem. The Clintons are part of this Establishment situation, whether anyone here supports them or not.

The Military Industrial Complex, aka the War Machine, has repeatedly made billions of dollars from the murder of innocent people overseas. Hillary and Bill have both supported this machine with their actions over the decades. This includes Bill's foreign policy, Hillary's votes in the Senate, and her support for similar war-mongering policies of the Obama administration as Secretary of State.

This is not a personal attack, it is an analysis of the policies we've seen through the decades. The Clintons are just part of the problem and I don't have anything against them personally. Eisenhower warned about the MIC's growing power in the 1950's. A big reason people were so let down with Obama is that they believed he wasn't part of this machine when in fact he was just as much of a part of it as the Clintons. It doesn't seem to matter who is in the Oval Office, Wall Street and the MIC continue to get exactly what they want.

[MrMickeysMom]

153. That's nice, dear

[NorthCarolina]

158. You lost me at

"I switched my support because of it".

Sure you did.

[RoccoR5955]

162. Boo Hoo

Hillary is the victim. How many times have I heard that. THIS is negative campaigning.
When Clinton's supporters say that Bernie cannot win, that Bernie has less experience, what are we supposed to do, than cite references, and give them the truth.
How is Clinton being attacked for trying to make a stunt out of the water crisis in Flint? What can she really do at this time, aside from donate some of her millions to a new water system for Flint?

Good luck trying to convince people to vote for the oligarchy, because the truth is too hard to handle.
When we point out a difference between Bernie and Dr. Secretary Senator Clinton, we are said by her supporters to be attacking. This is ludicrous! Don't you want to know when a candidate is not telling you the truth, or because it's within the Party, do you want to be left in the dark.

You might as well vote for a candidate because of the clothing s/he wears, or his/her looks, because unless you become aware of differences in policies, experience and judgement between candidates, all it is is a beauty contest. This is not a beauty contest, it is an election to nominate our Party's candidate for President. There IS a difference.

[CentralMass]

163. No, that was a mirror you were looking at.

[DrBulldog]

165. There's no backlash coming. People have finally gotten both wise to and tired of Hillary's B.S.

And they are now telling her loudly that they are not going to put up with it any more.

[Gman]

166. Sanders' supportersare toxic and will be his downfall

They have created a toxic air about this campaign. They have poisoned it. Sanders' campaign will wither because of his supporters. They will have only themselves to blame.

[FrenchieCat]

174. One cannot even hold a decent conversation....

without it descending into name calling like right away.

I Just look at the titles of the OPs here for the past few weeks that I have returned,
and understand very much why Hillary supporters don't even frequent this forum much.

[Scruffy1]

167. Good advice from an old timer like me.

Having been around almost as long as you I have seen a lot of primary fights, but I think this one is going to be the nastiest ever. A lot of this is because Bernie has a lot of support from non party people. many of my leftist friends ordinarily do not vote, but many have joined as supporters. They simply do not have an interest in maintaining the party and probably will not vote if he is not the chosen candidate.
I keep thinking of the woman in the wheelchair looking at the Hillary cut-out at the state fair and almost crying with joy at the thought of a woman being the President. If we alienate these voters we will lose big time. I learned a long time ago that not everyone the political animal I am, and to be careful not to offend those with other opinions. It's a maxim in sales to stay away from the negative, because it only creates negativity. If you tell them your competitor is bad then so are you.I personally never cared for the Clinton's, but that's no reason to attack their supporters. We need every vote in November to overcome the down ballot disadvantage.

[Gothmog]

172. Great post

I like Sanders but the attacks on Clinton by Sanders' supporters are not helping Sanders

[santafe52]

175. excellent post, MineralMan

90% of the Democrats I know feel the same way as you. Bernie needs to address his misguided minions. They are destroying so much of the good he is proposing.

When the dust clears, whoever wins the Democratic primary, I believe we'll find a much, much smaller audience here on DU.

A wide majority of the "Bernistas" here will then return to their real homes at Fox News. I'm guessing the majority of relentless attacks on Hillary here on DU, are GOP trolls.

It will be wonderful to see them disappear from our Progressive site.

[modestybl]

177. Bernie has taken incoming flak from day one...

... some of it sneering, some of it bemused, some of it condescending... all of it dismissive. Then it became irrititating and annoyed. Then it became resentful... as in how dare this Dem Socialist go up against Her Inevitableness... then came the "BernieBro" name-calling and smearing from Hillary supporters. Months ago, Hillary surrogates were bad-mouthing and criticising Bernie on the talk show circuits. "Did you know that Bernie is a SOCIALIST???" (Claire McCaskill) ... and it didn't stop him. Then the Serious People started taking issue with an insurgent Sanders campaign. Paul Krugman contradicted his own columns of recent years to prop up Hillary against Bernie. Then the outright smears and attacks started happening... and Bernie's poll numbers (and contributions) surged.

So... what was the point here?

[pnwmom]

178. It had that effect on me, MineralMan. When all this began

I was on the fence, but there were so many really unfair, Rethug-based attacks on Hillary, that I couldn't let stand unanswered. And the more information I provided to defend her from these unfair attacks, the more I realized what a great candidate she was. And so people were labeling me as a Hillary supporter before I even considered myself one.

But it happened, eventually. They helped push me solidly into the Hillary camp.

[JackRiddler]

194. I don't believe you either.

[pnwmom]

196. Like that matters. n/t

[MineralMan]

224. Whether you believe her or not is

almost certainly irrelevant to be or anyone else's vote.

[jhart3333]

180. Frankly, I don't see it.

In response to your appeal to authority, I'm 10 years behind you in voting for and supporting Democrats. Sanders is the candidate I thought I was voting for in Obama. I admit that I ignored some signs of trouble and went with my heart back then. Yes I voted for him 3 times and was quite disappointed in the results: the fight for universal health care(crickets), bail outs and no prosecutions for Wall Street and support for TPP are 3 big disappointments that cannot be ignored.

I've watched the Democratic Party go straight to hell over the past 30 - 40 years and in no small part because of the Clintons money grubbing and pandering to Republican ideals if not the Republicans themselves. And yes I voted for Bill Clinton twice. I now regret those votes because I was blind to the reality of what he was pulling off behind the scenes.

So now that we know, why should we vote another Clinton in?

I believe this conversation is really about class warfare. Most, not all, of the people backing Hillary are well to do and well connected. I put you in that category.

The rest of us smell the stench of a system that is rotten to the core.

[aikoaiko]

181. I think HRC supporters should follow the example of President Obama and not whine.

You never hear him whining about difficult, hard-hitting, or even vulgar criticism?

Why is it that HRC fans are so sensitive?

[Mike Nelson]

183. I find the level of hostility here to be stunning, but...

...so far, I think it's not a mainstream media concern; so, I don't see a backlash. Bernie is beloved, presently. Their disagreements still appear civil. If problems among supporters get played up and the media promotes them, then Hillary will be seen as the "victim" and the contest is over. This is one reason people should be polite. The other reason is that being polite is much nicer.

[NRaleighLiberal]

186. No. N/T

[Gore1FL]

187. If someone changes their vote because a candidate's supporter has them all butthurt,

then that voter is an idiot and far too easy to manipulate.

[JackRiddler]

197. Indeed.

But probably the pathetic OP text is more of an attempt to market to anyone who's that stupid. Kind of pointless here, but maybe it's being tested as a talking point.

[Bonobo]

223. I would like to give that a rec and a +10,000,000. nt

[silvershadow]

189. It is a primary. Believe me, it is going to get much worse I am sure, before it gets better

for her, anyway...

[FrenchieCat]

192. It's already worse....

it can only get better,
if folks' actual priority is beating the GOP in November.

If the priority is simply demonizing the opponent in the same party,
and attempting to assassinate their character,
than the GOP wins in November.

[silvershadow]

220. I think the premise is to actually return the Democratic party to its' roots, and away from

the Third Way. At least I think so. If not, we don't really have a party, we are just a wing of the Republican party.

[klook]

195. The well orchestrated negative campaign is coming from Clinton's supporters.

The grass-roots, spontaneous, inelegant -- even messy -- negativity from Sanders supporters is not orchestrated by political pros or funded by super PACs. (Obviously, right-wingers want Hillary's head on a pike, but they're not part of the Sanders campaign.)

[JackRiddler]

203. One-sided blindness.

The "responsible" punditocracy (in general as well as its miniature play-version here) is going around saying a vote for Bernie is racist, sexist (or if by a young woman: because she wants to pick up men! I had no idea!), dangerous, stupid, etc. And at the same time putting out cover fire by pretending Bernie supporters are exceptionally mean for the Internet, compared to everyone else who's ever been here. But you're right, the grassroots "negativity" against Clinton (I prefer to consider it a well-grounded critical rejection of her terrible politics) is not orchestrated. It's genuine. And wonderful.

[Odin2005]

201. ...

[Bonhomme Richard]

205. If you support what he believes then it is silly to switch because...

of a small minority of supporters. If you support what Hillary says then go with her and ignore her distasteful supporters.
It's easy.

[bvf]

209. No.

As for:

But, my primary vote goes to Clinton, in part because of the nature of the campaign against her.

Who do you think you're kidding with this?

31 flavors of this have been making the rounds since Day One, and every time one comes up it's just another reminder that some members of my party need to point a finger at opposition supporters in order to justify their own entrenchment.

I don't support Clinton because I believe she's the inferior candidate. Period.

[EdwardBernays]

210. wow!

So you changed who you support because of the campaign??

But you'd for for him anyone because of his party?

This seems like exactly what's wrong with politics.

[Beartracks]

215. "I switched my support because of... unfair treatment..."

... of Hillary by Bernie supporters.



I'm sorry, I still don't get that. Did aggressive Bernie supporters bad-talking Hillary make you re-examine Bernie and think, "You know, I do NOT really think Bernie's policy ideas and priorities more closely represent my values than Hillary's"? Or did their behavior make you re-examine Hillary and think, "On second thought, I DO think Hillary's policy ideas and priorities more closely represent my values than Bernie's"?

Or, did you just think, "I can't support this candidate because some of my fellow supporters are assholes"?

Honestly, if it was the latter reasoning, then you wouldn't be able to support Hillary either; you should've ended up in O'Malley's camp. But you didn't. Thus, my confusion.

=============================

[Admiral Loinpresser]

240. +1 n/t

[Red Oak]

216. The vitriol is to be expected

It's anger born of education.

People are starting to realize how badly the political class has "taken care" of them. How they and their families were sacrificed on the alters of corporate profits, banker greed and political power.

The nucleus of new information bubbles and rises up into anger and can overflow. When people see what appears to have been legalized bribery of politicians and see how it gave hedge fund managers obscenely low tax rates, huge corporations paying nothing (zero!) in taxes, corporate inversions, huge job losses with entire industries shipped off to China, H1B visas for jobs in areas of increasing unemployment, billions in outright mortgage fraud, no indictments on billions in illegal fraud and on and on and on, it swells in the gut and seeks release. The PTB should thank places like DU that allow the expression via a keyboard. It's healthy to get it out safely, using the ballot box.

When one finally understands Bill Clinton and NAFTA, Bill Clinton and China being admitted into the WTO, Hillary and the TPP, Hillary and Goldman Sachs, and, just as importantly, the same batch of supporting cast like Larry Summers and Alan Greenspan, the light clicks on, a sort of understanding starts and one can feel totally and royally screwed by these people and the system.

I'm glad I'm not part of the establishment. People are pissed off and rightly so.

In any event, I doubt sincerely that you changed your mind from Bernie to Hillary over DU vitriol during a primary season If you did, I've lost a great deal of respect for your normal intelligence and logic.

Expect the vitriol. People are waking up and want their country back.

[basselope]

219. Absolutely zero

This is one of the tamest campaigns in history.

No one is actually switching their support over anything that has happened so far.

[AtomicKitten]

222. No. But do keep trying and keep us posted.

[elias49]

225. No.

Wishful thinking - kind of like those unicorn I've heard about..

Let me know what - if anything - Hillary accomplishes by going to Flint.
She's nobody right now. A private citizen. What power will she wield to save the day in Flint?
She's going to drag a bunch of press vans to Michigan?
She's going have a photo-shoot.
As I said. Let's see what the hell she's going to do that will make a difference.

[MineralMan]

227. Vagina club?

I rest my case...

[Admiral Loinpresser]

238. If that idiot is not an agent provocateur, he should be. n/t

[Iggy Knorr]

236. desperate establishmentarians are certainly desperate for a backlash

case in point http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511158661

[Vattel]

241. The really dishonest behavior of many Clinton supporters may result in a backlash against her.

[Fearless]

243. Hillary is less popular... gets booed = Bernie will suffer??

[jmowreader]

247. It may come in New Hampshire

Not sure if you know what a Free Stater is, so I'll introduce you to the species.

In 2003, a libertarian group calling itself the Free State Project decided to move 20,000 people to a small state and try to get the government overturned. They chose to inflict themselves on New Hampshire. Since then they've wasted the state's time and money on things like demanding jury trials for parking tickets. The problem for Bernie is his Bros act very much like Free Staters.

There is a small, but growing, possibility that the citizens of New Hampshire are going to wake up on Tuesday, realize you can drive from NH to New York in an hour, and reject Bernie at the polls. The governor of New Hampshire has already said she thinks Hillary will win her state.

And if she does, the Bern will have been extinguished.

[aikoaiko]

249. Doubt it, but not for the lack of HRC fans playing up their "suffering"

[JesterCS]

250. So much BS

(Bullshit) on DU lately, from both sides.

[bowens43]

252. wow clinton supporters complaining about venom being projected against a candidate??? LOL

[kydo]

255. YES

Spot on MineralMan.

You have a wonderful way of expressing exactly what I was thinking.

The way many Sanders supporters have been acting resembles republican hate and anger more then Democratic dialog.

[Kentonio]

257. Do you also stand by the rest of what you said when you switched back in August?

As of now, I will be supporting Hillary Clinton to become the Democratic nominee for President. I believe she will be the nominee, and think that Bernie Sanders has reached his peak of support by the general Democratic voting public. What a shame! Hillary Clinton has and will continue to have broad support from all segments of our society.

August incidentally being a time when Hillary had a 35-40 point national lead and was 20-40 points ahead in Iowa.

[KingCharlemagne]

259. I'm from Missouri. You've got to show me just one post where you stated your

support for Senator Sanders first before allegedly switching to Secretary Clinton.

Otherwise I say "BS".

[MineralMan]

261. Here are multiple threads where I did that:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026688247
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026902159
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026851475

There are many more. You can find as many as you wish by searching in DU's Google search box at the top of any page for "MineralMan caucus for Bernie." Leave the quotation marks off for your search.

[KingCharlemagne]

262. I stand corrected. What is not so clear is WHY you changed from

supporting Sanders to Clinton. But I was clearly in error as to whom you originally supported.

[MineralMan]

267. My central reason for changing my mind

has to do with electability. I believe that Hillary Clinton has the best chance of being elected in November. Nothing is more important to me than electing a Democrat as President in 2016.

Some disagree with me on that subject. However, when I consider all of the factors that go into a presidential election, I believe that Clinton is considerably more likely to win if she is the nominee. I am almost certain that she will be the nominee, but I will work to assist her in getting the nomination for that reason.

The actions of some Sanders supporters also has played a role, because I believe that they will harm Sanders' chances of election in the end. Again, not everyone agrees with me, and that's fine. My choice is my choice.

[wiggs]

270. Rude Pundit makes similar point...more rude of course. No switched vote, but

similar observations about polarization.

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2016/02/believe-it-or-not-you-can-support.html

Myself: will vote for Bernie in primary. Won't switch. But discouraged from checking into DU as much because of the over the top and inaccurate pounding of dem candidates...many of which make the DU home page 24/7.

[R B Garr]

273. Yes, and it's already started. Bernie had to step in

himself to admonish his supporters to back off. The media has recognized it for some time now and Bernie himself can no longer deny what the public is subjected to in his name. Shameful.

Looks like some of the media is getting tired of his inability or unwillingness to expand his usual talking points, and they are expanding their scrutiny of him. Every candidate is vetted, though. Bernie should not be sheltered anymore.