2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumSanders supporters criticize Clinton for going to Flint - the same weekend that Bernie's doing SNL
Go figure . . .
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)about such a serious matter.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Wilms
(26,795 posts)corkhead
(6,119 posts)Voice for Peace
(13,141 posts)In a string of recent political posting incidents, a dangerous pattern has emerged. Futuristic scenes and stories are pouring into the ethers.
This is severely discomfiting to the majority of subatomic particles who work hard to keep things from falling apart. It's also obstructing their ability to make things better. According to their union spokesparticle, "when humans imagine stupid shit it makes our work really really hard."
amborin
(16,631 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)One called on the Governor to resign ... the other sent a team to coordinate/assist in a response.
Which was more helpful?
Bjorn Against
(12,041 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Beyond showing up with an offer to help.
TheBlackAdder
(28,209 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)That would have been helpful.
TheBlackAdder
(28,209 posts).
She's all of a sudden worried about the people of Flint, MI when she was pushing fracking domestically and worldwide.
Her positions on KXL are another issue, as the next president will be able to reverse Obama's stay.
Fracking and Big Oil destroyed people and household in multitudes as of yet determined!
#hypocrisy
.
But HRC supporters totally ignore this issue.
SamKnause
(13,108 posts)United States of America.
Bernie is running for president of the United States of America.
He is continuing his Senatorial duties and walking picket lines.
Hillary appeared on SNL last year while campaigning for president.
Why is it wrong for Bernie to appear on SNL ???
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)The Dems are in a fight to get a Flint aid bill on the floor, but Sanders was too busy to come back to Washington to vote with them.
He, Cruz and Rubio were the ONLY Senators not voting.
(He did make it to NY last night to get ready for his SNL appearance tonight, so that's nice . . .)
So, please spare us the BernieSoBusy he can't go to Flint because he's tied up fighting in the Senate stories.
Frankly, I don't care whether he goes to Flint this weekend and I'm not mad at him for not going. But for his supporters to attack Hillary for going to try to do something there and THEN with a straight face claim that Bernie's not going because he's too busy fighting for Flint in Washington - when he couldn't be bothered to go back to Washington to cast a vote is outrageous.
You can argue that it's not Bernie's job to go to Flint. But it's also not Bernie's job to march on a picket line and his being on a picket line, while an important symbolic gesture, really doesn't mean anything. But it IS his job to vote in the Senate and he didn't do that yesterday.
So y'all really need to go sit down and be quiet on claim.
kath
(10,565 posts)OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Is it about principles or pragmatism?
JackInGreen
(2,975 posts)But don't let me stop you.
SamKnause
(13,108 posts)Did it make it to the floor ???
I have not attacked Hillary.
I never argued that it was not Bernie's job to go to Flint.
His being on a picket line means a great deal.
I am not part of y'all, whatever that is in reference too.
My post was civil.
Your post is not.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)You did not say it wasn't Bernie's job to go to Flint - you said he was DOING his Senatorial job. I pointed out that was not, at least no yesterday when he did not return to Washington to do one of the main things a Senator is supposed to do, regarding the very topic of discussion.
SamKnause
(13,108 posts)Do you think he may have been in contact with other Senators
to inquire if his vote was needed ???
How many votes has he missed while running for president ???
I can answer that for you.
Bernie Sanders has the best record of showing up to work while
running for president. Source: (Politics USA)
I am not angry that the man missed a vote.
I hope the exposure he gets on SNL helps propel him to the White House.
Empowerer
(3,900 posts)As I noted in another post, a lot goes on before a vote to help influence it. I strongly believe - and several Democrats who were fighting for the bill also believe - that his presence could have made the difference. Had he gone for the vote, given a strong floor statement, his presence would have elevated the issue, brought it more press attention and cajoled more Dems - and maybe some Republicans, since the vote was bipartisan - to vote Yes on cloture. They were only 6 votes short, which is a real sliver for this kind of thing.
And even if he thought his vote wouldn't count, given how often his supporters attack everyone else who suggests that a candidate/senator/president should pick their battles, I would not accept that argument from them on this matter. The folks who complain that Hillary is the "No We Can't" candidate should not turn around and claim that Sanders didn't show up to fight on an issue of great importance because he didn't think he'd win.
I'm not angry that he missed the vote, either because I know how hard it is for Senators to juggle their schedules, no matter how conscientious they are. But what annoys me is that Hillary Clinton is being lambasted for going to Flint by people who claim that Sanders isn't going because he's doing his job fighting for Flint in the Senate - when he's not.
It would be so much better if people stopped assuming that every move Hillary makes has some nefarious, evil purpose and just let her go to Flint and do what she can to help the folks there and not try to turn her effort into another attack on her. Sanders will probably go when his schedule permits and I would not criticize him or appreciate any of Hillary supporters going after him for it.
Sanders has not criticized Hillary for going to Flint - it would be nice if his supporters followed his lead.
SamKnause
(13,108 posts)I pointed out she is unemployed and running for president.
I pointed out that Bernie is running for president, doing his Senatorial duties,
and walking picket lines.
I will stand by my statements.
Missing one vote does not equate with not doing your job.
From what I have read, his vote would not have made a difference.
Bernie is quite aware that he has Senatorial duties.
If his vote would have been important, he would have been there.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)2008. Would like a rundown on the times she was absent then? For me, it pays before slamming a candidate on something like this, to know what my own candidate's record is. Bernie's so far, fyi, is exceptional for someone who is running for the WH.
Aside from the 'people in glasshouses' aspect of this, it is usual for elected officials running for the WH to miss votes. If a vote is safe without them, or NOT SAFE regardless of their presence, they will sometimes skip such a vote.
But go ahead and use this, it's good for Bernie, giving people an opportunity to take a look back at Hillary's record.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)I for one am on the side of someone helping Flint.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Of those millions in speaking fees to help
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)can start up a loan program to help people pay for their poisoned water.
Low introductory APR, guaranteed to not skyrocket too soon.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Meanwhile Hillary is helping right now.
Edit: I don't think sarcasm is appropriate for such a dire situation. But that's just me.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)http://philanthropynewsdigest.org/news/new-program-launched-to-make-home-mortgages-available-to-haitians
MARCH 24, 2011
The Clinton Bush Haiti Fund has announced the launch of a $47 million program to make home mortgages more widely available in Haiti.
Jointly sponsored by the Clinton Bush Haiti Fund, the Overseas Private Investment Corporation, and the Haiti Reconstruction Fund, the program will provide home mortgages and home-repair loans to low-income Haitians and small businesses affected by last year's earthquake. The Development Innovations Group will manage the program, pending approval by OPIC's board of directors in June after implementation details are finalized.
The program was approved last week by the Interim Haiti Recovery Commission, a group formed in the wake of the January 2010 earthquake to review and approve projects funded by bilateral and multilateral donors, nongovernmental organizations, and the private sector. Funded by Haiti Reconstruction Fund ($10 million), the Clinton Bush Haiti Fund ($3 million), and OPIC ($34 million in debt funding), the program is modeled after similar efforts that have proved successful in other parts of the developing world.
"What Haiti needs today are smart investments that will create economic opportunities and lay the groundwork for long-term, sustainable growth," said Clinton Bush Haiti Fund CEO Gary Edson. "By providing funding for programs such as this, we're making it possible for ordinary Haitians to own their own home as well as their own future success and prosperity."
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/world/americas/haiti/article6005817.html
The needs are so immense, said Odnell David, a Haitian government housing division chief with the Unit for Housing Construction and Public Buildings. For you to address the housing problem in Haiti, you also have to address all of the other problems in Haiti employment, investments, education. All have to run parallel.
Rather than build houses, David said, the government has decided its better to create the environment to motivate people to construct their own homes. Its a philosophy that the government is also pushing with foreign donors, who like the government, have struggled to make good on promises to build tens of thousands of new homes to get Haitians out of the tents.
A lot of minor interventions are still being done in Port-au-Prince, where you will see that they are still building houses to give to people, said David, noting that while such ventures are appreciated, they would not build Haitis struggling economy.
What we are saying is you need the government to invest, the people to invest and the private sector to invest to be certain you will have durable development, he said. If you dont have this combination, we will always remain in the same situation.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)And since you're complaining, what have you done to help?
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)http://www.clintonfoundation.org/main/our-work/by-initiative/clinton-foundation-in-haiti/about.html
The Clinton Foundation has been actively engaged in Haiti since 2009, focusing on economic diversification, private sector investment and job creation in order to create long-term, sustainable economic development. After the devastating earthquake in 2010, President Clinton formed the Clinton Foundation Haiti Fund and raised $16.4 million from individual donors for immediate earthquake relief efforts. Since 2010, the Clinton Foundation has raised a total of $34 million for Haiti, including relief funds as well as projects focused on restoring Haiti's communities, sustainable development, education and capacity building. In 2012, the Clinton Foundation concentrated on creating sustainable economic growth in the four priority sectors of energy, tourism, agriculture, and apparel/manufacturing, working to bring new investors, develop and support local organizations and businesses, and create access to new markets. The Clinton Foundation also continued working to support government efforts to improve Haitis business environment and supported programs in education and capacity building.
http://www.haiti-liberte.com/archives/volume4-47/Washington%20Backed%20Famous.asp
The U.S. Embassy in Haiti worked closely with factory owners contracted by Levis, Hanes, and Fruit of the Loom to aggressively block a paltry minimum wage increase for Haitian assembly zone workers, the lowest paid in the hemisphere, according to secret State Department cables.
The factory owners refused to pay 62 cents an hour, or $5 per eight-hour day, as a measure unanimously passed by the Haitian parliament in June 2009 would have mandated. Behind the scenes, the factory owners had the vigorous backing of the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID) and the U.S. Embassy, show secret U.S. Embassy cables provided to Haïti Liberté by the transparency-advocacy group WikiLeaks.
The minimum daily wage had been 70 gourdes or $1.75 a day.
The factory owners told the Haitian parliament that they were willing to give workers a mere 9 cents an hour pay increase to 31 cents an hour 100 gourdes daily to make T-shirts, bras and underwear for U.S. clothing giants like Dockers and Nautica.
http://www.democracynow.org/2013/10/17/headlines#10179
A new report by the Worker Rights Consortium has found the majority of workers in Haitis garment industry are being denied nearly a third of the wages they are legally owed due to widespread wage theft. The new evidence builds on an earlier report that found every single one of Haitis export garment factories was illegally shortchanging workers. Workers in Haiti make clothes for U.S. retailers including Gap, Target, Kohls, Levis and Wal-Mart. The report highlighted abuses at the Caracol Industrial Park, a new factory complex heavily subsidized by the U.S. State Department, the Inter-American Development Bank and the Clinton Foundation and touted as a key part of Haitis post-earthquake recovery. The report found that, on average, workers at the complex are paid 34 percent less than the law requires. Haitis minimum wage for garment workers is between 60 and 90 cents an hour. More than three-quarters of workers interviewed for the report said they could not afford three meals a day.
https://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/10/16-4
Haiti's Caracol Industrial Parkthe U.S. State Department and Clinton Foundation pet project to deliver aid and reconstruction to earthquake-ravaged Haiti in the form of private investmentis systematically stealing its garment workers' wages, paying them 34 percent less than minimum wage set by federal law, a breaking report from the Worker Rights Consortium reveals.
Critics charge that poverty wages illustrate the deep flaws with corporate models of so-called aid. "The failure of the Caracol Industrial Park to comply with minimum wage laws is a stain on the U.S.'s post-earthquake investments in Haiti and calls into question the sustainability and effectiveness of relying on the garment industry to lead Haiti's reconstruction," said Jake Johnston of the Center for Economic and Policy Research in an interview with Common Dreams.
Caracol is just one of five garment factories profiled in this damning report, released publicly on Wednesday, which finds that "the majority of Haitian garment workers are being denied nearly a third of the wages they are legally due as a result of the factories theft of their income." This is due to systematic employer cheating on piece-work and overtime, as well as failure to pay employees for hours worked.
...
Financers included the Inter-American Development Bank, the U.S. State Department, and the Clinton Foundation, who invested a total of $224 million with promises to uphold high labor standards. Its anchor tenant is the Korean S&H Global factory, which sells garments to Walmart, Target, Kohl's, and Old Navy, according to the report.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022415607
Other than idol worshipping, what have you done to help?
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)And that really is funny coming from a Bernie Bro.
Anyway, the Clintons did their best in Haiti. They cannot control and oversee government corruption. They are not gods.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)If bringing that fact to light (Thanks, Chelsea Manning) makes me a "Bernie Bro," then excusing Hillary's actions as Sec. of State to keep slave wages for Haitian workers for the benefit of the Clinton Foundation's corporate donors makes you Hillarious, i.e. a joke not to be taken seriously.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Wow, and all this time I thought Obama was president!
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)Secret State Department cables don't lie, and Hillarians act(?) ignorant in the face of such facts because they can't deal with the cognitive dissonance that their beloved idol would exploit the poorest people in the Western hemisphere for the benefit of the Clinton Foundation's donors.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Is that all you got?
Oh, and btw, if there were any truth in your assertions, don't you think Trey Gowdy would have convened another hearing?
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)I would find that response to be Hillarious, but Chelsea Manning's spending 35 years in prison for revealing these sordid truths.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Why do you think Trey Gowdy is not investigating this "horror?" If it's what you say, he could definitely bring Hillary down. And that, as we all know, is his greatest wish.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)that Hillary is a Communist who hates capitalism.
I don't hear Gowdy calling for the transcripts of Hillary's Goldman Sachs speeches, either.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)Trey Gowdy and Republicans, in general, are masters at pushing anti-Clinton propaganda. If there were anything there, they would be all over it. They don't care about narratives. They care about destroying the Clintons. Sound familiar?
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)is the straight-up denial of facts by overzealous followers of a political idol.
It's like talking to a Bush supporter.
La la la. I can't hear your lies and smears...
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)We all know that Bernie Bros are masters at dredging up right wing material. And btw Bernie is not a fan of those tactics. He respects The Secretary.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)Lots of right wingers in Obama's State Department run by The Secretary. LOL!
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)if it amounted to anything. This conversation is just silly.
OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)and are opposed to US companies who exploit them for material gain.
Up is down in the magical land of Hillaria.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)OnyxCollie
(9,958 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Why didnt trey gowdy bring up Haiti? Probably the same reason McCarthy didnt instigate hearings into the CIA's activities against the Arbenz government in guatamala, in favor of United Fruit.
jesus, listen to yourself.
Duckhunter935
(16,974 posts)Does not want to use the poor people of Flint as a political stunt
Nanjeanne
(4,961 posts)On the internet?
Links please to actual supporters who are criticizing her?
Rose Siding
(32,623 posts)Since you asked so nicely
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511156958
You're welcome
Nanjeanne
(4,961 posts)I thought you said it was Sanders supporters - so I assumed you meant Ben Jealous, Susan Sarandon, Keith Ellison . . .
guess not.
But thanks for confirming what I thought.
Rose Siding
(32,623 posts)Or are those fake BS supporters?
Nanjeanne
(4,961 posts)DU posters? Is that who you are complaining about? I don't give a rat's ass about what people who like Bernie say on a message board. You said supporters like Bernie's supporters are victimizing Hillary for her selfless act of visiting Flint. You are trying too hard.
Rose Siding
(32,623 posts)The term "supporters" of a candidate can extend to "DU posters" who are his supporters.
And the OP was "complaining", as you put it. Not me. I would fully expect that candidate's "supporters" (see how I used that word correctly?) on DU to react poorly to anything Hillary does.
It is refreshing to see that you find the act selfless, so thanks for that!
jeff47
(26,549 posts)restorefreedom
(12,655 posts)it could change water delivery worldwide....
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)I'm a Bernie supporter, and this is more of a shot at the people posting crap on the front page than it is a shot at Bernie.
lunamagica
(9,967 posts)losing is winning.. everything is upside down
Vinca
(50,278 posts)I guess she thinks all voters are dumb as stumps and can't figure it out. Here's a news flash for Hillary. Tomorrow's chatter is going to be Bernie on SNL and Super Bowl Sunday. Her trip to Flint will make a great campaign advertisement, though, and I'm certain that was the goal anyway.
ejbr
(5,856 posts)I hope she gets the positive effect we all want. The problem is larger than politics
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)which Hillary has already done?
Really? No shit?
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)kath
(10,565 posts)How many threads are we going to have on this today? Three? four? more?
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)it is an old political trick.
kath
(10,565 posts)BainsBane
(53,035 posts)but so what if it's a political stunt if it helps resolve the problem? She has brought attention to the issue that otherwise would not exist. The sad thing is you resent that she is working to improve the lives of people there because you think it might help her electoral chances. Your priorities are skewed.
There are no shortage of political stunts you fail to recognize, particularly when performed on cable TV and in front of arenas.
virtualobserver
(8,760 posts)It is always embarrassing though, when politicians exploit people's tragedy for electoral gain.
You can tell that it is a stunt when someone does something like this two days before a primary vote.
It is calculated to help her in New Hampshire.
kath
(10,565 posts)For more about her "firewall"bullshit, see here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/12511170992
cali
(114,904 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)And, since she already did a cameo on SNL, Bernie Sanders can do that, too.
Just make sure you're for cleaning up the infrastructure in this race. She also met in Philly with our Commonwealth's elite and wonderful gas and oil industrialists recently!
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)Both candidates re getting blamed for things that are not even remotely their fault, and everything they do is wrong, bad, suspicious, shallow, etc. But this is DU, and things get heated here, feelings run deep, and people lose perspective.
TTUBatfan2008
(3,623 posts)I am very glad she is going to give the Flint problem more attention that it needs. It seems way too easy for the public to forget about these kinds of disaster situations. Kind of reminds me of hurricane coverage. The media is interested to see the initial devastation but they don't give a crap about the fallout. It's great that Hillary will make sure that this situation receives attention from the media. Hopefully more aid can come from it.
Having said that, Bernie is not doing anything wrong either. Hillary has gone to SNL before multiple times. I understand the hypocrisy you're pointing out and I agree in a sense because I don't think she should be criticized at all for the Flint thing, but at the same time I don't think Hillary herself has any problem with SNL.
Ferd Berfel
(3,687 posts)DesertRat
(27,995 posts)Lil Missy
(17,865 posts)slipslidingaway
(21,210 posts)and weapons containing depleted uranium that we used in Iraq.
You either care about all children or you do not.
thelordofhell
(4,569 posts)I could only imagine what the BerniBros would have said if this happened now.........